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Teachers being paid on the double

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  • 14-02-2013 12:39pm
    #1
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭


    This is a piece is from yesterdays Irish Times


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0212/1224329941631.html

    Every year hundreds of language teachers around the country leave their classrooms to conduct oral examinations for the Leaving Cert in other schools. There’s logic to this: students do not want to be examined by their own teachers, nor should they be. The obvious people to conduct the exams are the teachers themselves, who know the syllabus backwards and have a good sense of where a student at this level should be. Therefore it makes sense to do this annual shuffle between schools.

    What does not make sense is the fact that language teachers are paid extra for their trouble. Not just mileage or expenses, but an hourly rate over and above their teaching salary. Almost €40 an hour, in fact. So, while these teachers are being paid to teach in one school, they are off earning extra money conducting exams in another. It’s double jobbing, in essence, but it’s sanctioned and bankrolled by the Department of Education. In other words, the taxpayer.
    ______________________________________________________



    It's not just language teachers (although they get the time out of their classroom) Any teacher who supervises and corrects exams gets extra payment. It's time that these extra payments are cut. Assessing students work should be a incorporated in to their routine work and the dates of the oral exams moved to during the holiday period


    In 2011 €30 million was being paid to teachers for supervising and marking exams, with nearly 9,000 teachers a year taking part.




    Should this not be included as part of their salary and job? They are being paid on the double along with the tax payer footing the bill for the temporary teacher.


«1

Comments

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    #2
    hyperborean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    Haha, you do know that the government is full of teachers? NOthing will happen with the teaching gravy train.


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    #3
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    But when they are giving/supervising/correcting exams, they aren't teaching. This was a big thing regarding the teachers strikes some 12 years back.


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    #4
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    OP do you think they should go to other schools to conduct the exams and not get paid?


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    #5
    Lando Griffin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    This is a piece is from yesterdays Irish Times


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0212/1224329941631.html

    Every year hundreds of language teachers around the country leave their classrooms to conduct oral examinations for the Leaving Cert in other schools. There’s logic to this: students do not want to be examined by their own teachers, nor should they be. The obvious people to conduct the exams are the teachers themselves, who know the syllabus backwards and have a good sense of where a student at this level should be. Therefore it makes sense to do this annual shuffle between schools.

    What does not make sense is the fact that language teachers are paid extra for their trouble. Not just mileage or expenses, but an hourly rate over and above their teaching salary. Almost €40 an hour, in fact. So, while these teachers are being paid to teach in one school, they are off earning extra money conducting exams in another. It’s double jobbing, in essence, but it’s sanctioned and bankrolled by the Department of Education. In other words, the taxpayer.
    ______________________________________________________



    It's not just language teachers (although they get the time out of their classroom) Any teacher who supervises and corrects exams gets extra payment. It's time that these extra payments are cut. Assessing students work should be a incorporated in to their routine work and the dates of the oral exams moved to during the holiday period


    In 2011 €30 million was being paid to teachers for supervising and marking exams, with nearly 9,000 teachers a year taking part.




    Should this not be included as part of their salary and job? They are being paid on the double along with the tax payer footing the bill for the temporary teacher.

    When I was doing my french oral, I told the examiner my father was a horse and there were 4 of him.:pac:


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    #6
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    But when they are giving/supervising/correcting exams, they aren't teaching. This was a big thing regarding the teachers strikes some 12 years back.

    Surely assessing pupils work is a core part of teaching?


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    #7
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    HondaSami wrote: »
    OP do you think they should go to other schools to conduct the exams and not get paid?

    They should get mileage & expenses. They are already getting paid their salary. They should not receive this extra payment.


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    #8
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    They're getting paid during the summer holidays (while not teaching) and then they get paid extra for supervising and correcting. Ludicrous stuff.


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    #9
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    HondaSami wrote: »
    OP do you think they should go to other schools to conduct the exams and not get paid?

    They should get expenses, but they are already being paid.

    They should fall in line with the private sector where ad hoc working at another location is expected.


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    #10
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    And that’s not the end of it. Because these teachers (three in total from our school last year) are not available to teach their classes, substitutes must be employed to take their places. These substitutes are also paid, not out of the wages of the double-jobbing teacher but – you guessed it – out of the taxpayer’s pocket.


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    #11
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Surely assessing pupils work is a core part of teaching?

    During the year, in preperation for state exams, they do yeah. Not for state exams though.


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    #12
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    During the year, in preperation for state exams, they do yeah. Not for state exams though.

    They do, they still receive their salary.


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    #13
    vamos!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭vamos!


    I am a language teacher and I have conducted the oral exams. I would still examine if the exams were held for a week of the Easter holidays. This would have a negative impact on the students though, as quite a few students take Music, Irish and at least one European Language. They could not be assessed within one week and they can't be assessed during the holy days of Easter week. It is nice to earn extra money, nobody could possibly deny that. After tax, it is nowhere near double pay though. If the school can get a qualified sub (rare as hens teeth during the orals), you can leave your school and let the sub teacher teach and correct for the week. The more likely scenario is that you have to prepare work that is relevant and that can be done without you. This take a huge amount of time. It then has to be corrected when you get back. Also time consuming. Is it not usual for companies like KPM to pay staff allowances when they are abroad representing the company? Oral examiners get their milage paid but don't get to order room service in fancy hotels and don't get to dine out in posh restaurants.

    The chemistry teacher who supposedly wrote the article needs to get over themselves. I know teachers in every subject give extra help to students but language teachers spend a lot of extra time conducting practice orals on a one-to-one basis from fifth year onwards. They are even to be found in schools during the Easter break to give the students one last mock exam. The money is great but most examiners are also in it for the experience. If you know the tricks of the exam, you can help your students do better.


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    #14
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    Teachers work for the Dept. of Education.

    Exams are operated by the State Examinations Commission.

    In any job, if you are to do secondary work for another company, it is a separate, in this case short term, employment contract.

    Also worth noting that the vast majority will have 51% of this payment deducted through tax, USC and PRSI.

    OP you really need to get a life.


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    #15
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    Boombastic wrote: »
    (three in total from our school last year)

    There's no way you're a school student and this twisted, and it's hard to believe you're a teacher coming out with this. What exactly do you mean by "our school"?


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    #16
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    There's no way you're a school student and this twisted, and it's hard to believe you're a teacher coming out with this. What exactly do you mean by "our school"?

    Do you want extra pay for actually reading the article?


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    #17
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Boombastic wrote: »
    They should get mileage & expenses. They are already getting paid their salary. They should not receive this extra payment.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    They should get expenses, but they are already being paid.

    They should fall in line with the private sector where ad hoc working at another location is expected.

    Funny how people think it's ok to turn a blind eye when people claim dole and work on the side, why should teachers work extra and not get paid.

    Another thread to bash the public service.


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    #18
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    hyperborean wrote: »
    Haha, you do know that the government is full of teachers? NOthing will happen with the teaching gravy train.

    So much of the general public are so bitter and misinformed it actually makes me sad :(


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    #19
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Do you want extra pay for actually reading the article?

    I'm not a teacher, and I don't need to read the article because I try to keep agenda-driven tripe posing as news out of my life thanks all the same.


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    #20
    hyperborean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    Catari Jaguar wrote: »
    So much of the general public are so bitter and misinformed it actually makes me sad :(


    Poor you, Sad little old you.


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    #21
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    I'm not a teacher, and I don't need to read the article because I try to keep agenda-driven tripe posing as news out of my life thanks all the same.

    :pac::pac:


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    #22
    humbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    HondaSami wrote: »
    Funny how people think it's ok to turn a blind eye when people claim dole and work on the side, why should teachers work extra and not get paid.

    Another thread to bash the public service.
    No, both situations are clearly wrong. Brilliant retort btw.


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    #23
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    humbert wrote: »
    No, both situations are clearly wrong. Brilliant retort btw.

    And we'll have a bankers and developers post ending with why didn't you become a teacher in 3,2,1........


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    #24
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Lando Griffin wrote: »
    When I was doing my french oral, I told the examiner my father was a horse and there were 4 of him.:pac:

    Is he a harbinger of the apocalypse?


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    #25
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    I don't have a problem with teachers being paid to supervise exams in other schools. They're supervising them in their off time, and as well as that they don't work for the school they're supervising in. However I do believe they could cut the pay as well. They're making €40 an hour, why not take it down to €20 an hour.


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    #26
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    hyperborean wrote: »
    Haha, you do know that the government is full of teachers? NOthing will happen with the teaching gravy train.

    This line is often brought out and I find it odd. The Dail isn't full of teachers, and solicitors etc. It's full of career politicians. How people can refer to the likes of Micheal Martin as a teacher when he worked at the job for a single year is bizarre.


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    #27
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    Teachers work for the Dept. of Education.

    Exams are operated by the State Examinations Commission.

    In any job, if you are to do secondary work for another company, it is a separate, in this case short term, employment contract.

    Also worth noting that the vast majority will have 51% of this payment deducted through tax, USC and PRSI.

    OP you really need to get a life.

    Sorry Miss, my dog ate it.


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    #28
    humbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    Teachers work for the Dept. of Education.

    Exams are operated by the State Examinations Commission.

    In any job, if you are to do secondary work for another company, it is a separate, in this case short term, employment contract.

    Also worth noting that the vast majority will have 51% of this payment deducted through tax, USC and PRSI.

    OP you really need to get a life.

    In most companies if you're taking time out of your job to work for a second company you're sacked.


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    #29
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    This line is often brought out and I find it odd. The Dail isn't full of teachers, and solicitors etc. It's full of career politicians. How people can refer to the likes of Micheal Martin as a teacher when he worked at the job for a single year is bizarre.

    Isn't there some weird system where some career TDs who were previously teachers with 20+ years in the Dail are classified as being on a 'career break' from teaching? If memory serves the school is not entitled to a full time teacher until they 'retire' from the job that they don't do (teaching). Also there was some pension entitlement shenaningans.

    Maybe this has all been fixed now, maybe this is all in my imagination, but it seems like the kind of crazy thing that could happen...


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    #30
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    check_six wrote: »
    Isn't there some weird system where some career TDs who were previously teachers with 20+ years in the Dail are classified as being on a 'career break' from teaching? If memory serves the school is not entitled to a full time teacher until they 'retire' from the job that they don't do (teaching). Also there was some pension entitlement shenaningans.

    Maybe this has all been fixed now, maybe this is all in my imagination, but it seems like the kind of crazy thing that could happen...

    A bit off topic but it might explain why they are slow to push for reform
    01 MARCH 2011
    TEACHERS will still make up the largest professional group in the 31st Dail -- despite an increase in TDs with more varied backgrounds.............................................Under changes being introduced by the Department of Education, newly elected teacher-TDs and senators will be able to keep their old jobs open for up to 10 years in future.

    However, the teachers-turned-politicians will not be able to chalk up both teaching and Oireachtas pensions at the same time.


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    #31
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Hi guys.
    Teacher here.
    On my third cup of tea.
    Mid-term break you know.
    Continue please.
    Bye.


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