Are employers exploiting employees?

krudler · 02-07-2011 2:05pm

our place decided that if you were on the last shift, which finishes at 10pm (call centre) and if there were still calls waiting in the queue to be answered you had to stay and take them, no extra pay and you didnt get the time back, fcuk that sh1t. course all it takes is one gombeen to roll over and do it and then everyone else will be getting pulled for "not contributing" want the calls answered? hire more fcuking staff instead of exploiting the ones you already have!

ejmaztec · 02-07-2011 2:28pm

krudler wrote: »

our place decided that if you were on the last shift, which finishes at 10pm (call centre) and if there were still calls waiting in the queue to be answered you had to stay and take them, no extra pay and you didnt get the time back, fcuk that sh1t. course all it takes is one gombeen to roll over and do it and then everyone else will be getting pulled for "not contributing" want the calls answered? hire more fcuking staff instead of exploiting the ones you already have!

Before I decided to become self-employed, my last job was a 9 to 5 working for an accountancy firm, and I used to get the evil eye when I took off out the door on the dot at 5. There was no overtime there either, but out of all of the staff, I seemed to be the only one to say "fuck 'em".

It was one of those places where the words staff and employee were never used. All of us, including the partners (aka fuckers), were all "team-members".

I never had any of this bullsh1t when I worked in the UK, where there seemed to be at least mutual respect.

Oranage2 · 02-07-2011 2:33pm

My job is alright - i can ask the boss if i want more hour though i'd be put on a late shift -The only thing in terms of exploitation is that the company pays 25 quid an hour for each staff but the employees only see €11 an hour

Sonnenblumen · 02-07-2011 2:49pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

My job is alright - i can ask the boss if i want more hour though i'd be put on a late shift -The only thing in terms of exploitation is that the company pays 25 quid an hour for each staff but the employees only see €11 an hour

and your point is? Charge out rates (include other costs incl Employers PRSI contribution for employees, Employer & Public liability insurances, and many other overheads).

2ygb4cmqetsjhx · 02-07-2011 2:51pm

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 2:56pm

Geansai Rua wrote: »

Ha, OP you must work in the same place as me!

I work in a hotel bar, about 48 hours a week (mon-sun) but they scam it by making our working week fri to thurs... dunno how it works but it does!

I actually worked 11 hours yesterday, no break, on my feet all day.

I am going back to college in september so as long as I have money going into the bank im ok.. Could never do it long term though!

Its hell on earth, crap money.. but what else am i going to do...

Check your labor laws. You're still working 48 hours in a 7 day period yes?

Karona · 02-07-2011 2:58pm

Used to work 15 hours a day and they would expect you to come in on your day off. The manager was useless, she would go out the night before and would ring in with a hangover the next morning and expect you to cover for her, but if one of the staff rang in she'd go crazy. I hated that place.

Naikon · 02-07-2011 2:58pm

Quit moaning. If you don't like working for other people, work for yourself. Contract work for example. Problem solved.

Nodin · 02-07-2011 3:01pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Before I decided to become self-employed, my last job was a 9 to 5 working for an accountancy firm, and I used to get the evil eye when I took off out the door on the dot at 5. There was no overtime there either, but out of all of the staff, I seemed to be the only one to say "fuck 'em".

It was one of those places where the words staff and employee were never used. All of us, including the partners (aka fuckers), were all "team-members".

I never had any of this bullsh1t when I worked in the UK, where there seemed to be at least mutual respect.

'Many moons ago' before there was widespread e-mail and use of PC's, operations staff where I used work would have to put in a 60 hour and above week to keep the show on the road. Lots on long hours doing essentially mind numbing but vital things to keep the place going. The description of our dutiful company manager (and later CEO) of these good folk was that they were a "bunch of fucking monkeys".

Of course there are Irish firms that apparently do run their places with respect for their staff etc. I've never worked for one, but they do - I'm assured - exist.

ejmaztec · 02-07-2011 3:15pm

Nodin wrote: »

'Many moons ago' before there was widespread e-mail and use of PC's, operations staff where I used work would have to put in a 60 hour and above week to keep the show on the road. Lots on long hours doing essentially mind numbing but vital things to keep the place going. The description of our dutiful company manager (and later CEO) of these good folk was that they were a "bunch of fucking monkeys".

Of course there are Irish firms that apparently do run their places with respect for their staff etc. I've never worked for one, but they do - I'm assured - exist.

I've never found and have never heard of one, which makes me think that finding the Holy Grail would be a push-over by comparison.

I even worked for a very short time at a provincial newspaper, where in print they stood up for the rights of the individual, and had various crusades to speak up for the down-trodden etc... Unfortunately, all of the employees of this paper were treated like dogs.

I asked one guy what the annual holidays were, and his reply was "I don't think anyone's been here long enough to find out". I never found out either, because I was gone with the wind soon after.:D

dotsman · 02-07-2011 6:24pm

Ahmad Silly Knight wrote: »

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

What is an average 22 year old? Are they skilled? More importantly, are they skilled in areas of economic importance? Are their skills rare and hard to come by? Are they good at what they do? What experience do they have? Are they on a specific career path?

mikemac · 02-07-2011 6:29pm

Unpaid overtime might be ok if you are a manager or heading for promotion. And it's to be done if you are a director.

But companies are not hiring and then getting staff to cover the extra. A tough ambitious workload is fine and it keeps ya busy but often it's just not possible.

Get four staff to stay on two hours a night, five days a week and wham, you've gotten 40 free hours of labour and saved the company over 20k or maybe over 30k by not getting a new hire

Bens · 02-07-2011 6:34pm

Ahmad Silly Knight wrote: »

Out of interest. How much money would an average 22 year old in Ireland who works full time take home. If you are to take the average of every twenty two year old in Ireland. Standing to think it is a lot lower than what I used to think.

Its going to be zero now, with the new government sponsored internship slave scheme.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 6:34pm

Don't settle for unpaid overtime: Get Salary Pay, and the appropriate benefits.

thats one of the reasons me and my last employer didn't work out. They wanted me to go salary so they could work me weirder hours, but I wasn't going to do that since they were not willing to match what I was making on average as an hourly employee. Sucks for them because if not for that stupid punchcard I probably would have worked a lot harder for them, and willingly.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 6:35pm

Bens wrote: »

Its going to be zero now, with the new government sponsored internship slave scheme.

:rolleyes:

Bens · 02-07-2011 6:37pm

A mate of mine works in a company where you are expected to stay until your work is done.
This was ok with them when they got paid for overtime.

Recently the "rules" for payment of overtime were changed. Now you get paid overtime, but only after you have already stayed 2 hours after your normal finish time. I other words. If you worked 9am - 9pm you get paid overtime from 7pm. You work for free between 5 and 7pm.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 6:40pm

Bens wrote: »

A mate of mine works in a company where you are expected to stay until your work is done.
This was ok with them when they got paid for overtime.

Recently the "rules" for payment of overtime were changed. Now you get paid overtime, but only after you have already stayed 2 hours after your normal finish time. I other words. If you worked 9am - 9pm you get paid overtime from 7pm. You work for free between 5 and 7pm.

Are you telling me you would have previously got 12 overtime hours?

Awesome deal. But definitely not a legal requirement. Nothing outrageous about getting paid 2 OT hours for 2 hours of OT.

Getting paid 2 hours OT for 4 hours OT though is a labor dispute. Go have fun!

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 02-07-2011 6:46pm

its being going on for years,particularly during the boom,we let fellow eu members in to do the min wage work whilst we scoffed at them from our building sites.

Usually managers are pulling this shít on getting more hours out of an employee for free,hence on getting promoted..

Bens · 02-07-2011 6:59pm

Overheal wrote: »

Are you telling me you would have previously got 12 overtime hours?

Awesome deal. But definitely not a legal requirement. Nothing outrageous about getting paid 2 OT hours for 2 hours of OT.

Getting paid 2 hours OT for 4 hours OT though is a labor dispute. Go have fun!

Normal hours 9 - 5 and getting paid 2 OT hours for 4 hours of OT if working to 9pm.

A few of them went to their boss about it and were told they would be fired if they went any further with it. Personally I would have just walked, but these people have been made to feel desperate and worthless that they wouldnt get a good job anywhere else. I know they would though.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 7:03pm

Bens wrote: »

Normal hours 9 - 5 and getting paid 2 OT hours for 4 hours of OT if working to 9pm.

A few of them went to their boss about it and were told they would be fired if they went any further with it. Personally I would have just walked, but these people have been made to feel desperate and worthless that they wouldnt get a good job anywhere else. I know they would though.

Check with an expert in labor law or refer to the irish statute book online. I know for example when reporting harassment in the workplace, it is illegal for there to be any backlash for doing so, ie. your boss can't threaten to fire you for reporting racism. I would assume similar rules apply to being threatened with termination for pursuing back pay. And its possible they might even be fined heavily for having done so.

Solnskaya · 02-07-2011 7:05pm

few years back I was a Contracted site boss on a large apartment complex build. The workers started at 6.45am, and by 4.30 pm them and I would have my fill and I'd send them home. Company Owner landed in one day(first time ever) to the site at 4.45pm and found lo and behold, everyone was gone home.
I was driving home at this stage. Phone rang. "where the feck are ye all?, what time do ye call this to be quitting at???"
I politely(well, not politely) informed the bollix that the men had worked 10 hours straight that day, like every day, and as long as I was running the site, thats the most anybody would be doing there.
If you want to work every hour God sends, some cnut will be happy to have you do it. Life is short, learn to tell em to fcuk off. Politely.

Overheal · 02-07-2011 7:06pm

Couldnt he have hired a 2nd shift boss and crew

Imagine a tesco manager: "You can't go home bagboy! Dont you know this is a 24-hour store??"

Solnskaya · 02-07-2011 7:09pm

Overheal wrote: »

Couldnt he have hired a 2nd shift boss and crew

yeah, he could, but that would have cost money, and what he was paying me was killing him, let alone getting another shift in. Irish employers seem to be mean and harsh on employees, but very lavish on their own cars and perks. Anyway, who the feck could he get that would have been better than me????:D

Noreen1 · 02-07-2011 7:22pm

Bens wrote: »

Normal hours 9 - 5 and getting paid 2 OT hours for 4 hours of OT if working to 9pm.

A few of them went to their boss about it and were told they would be fired if they went any further with it. Personally I would have just walked, but these people have been made to feel desperate and worthless that they wouldnt get a good job anywhere else. I know they would though.

This would never have been allowed to happen in the 80s, when most of the private sector was unionised.

Do these people have a contract of employment?
Employers are legally obliged to provide a written contract of employment within 2 months of the employee joining the company.
Overtime rates should be specified in this contract. Once entered into, the contract cannot be changed without the agreement of both the employees and the company.

Gercakeage · 02-07-2011 7:28pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

There was a thread over in PI. I'm not the op by the way, and there are a few more in my position - being worked right into the ground

OP, are you a chef?

Nodin · 02-07-2011 7:29pm

...never worked in a place with a union. There was an attempt to set one up, but before it came time put names down on paper managment had word and nobody would go ahead with it, apparently. Except the one guy whose idea it was...left standing there with his langer in his hand, essentially. He never bothered his arse again after that.

Bens · 02-07-2011 7:34pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

This would never have been allowed to happen in the 80s, when most of the private sector was unionised.

Do these people have a contract of employment?
Employers are legally obliged to provide a written contract of employment within 2 months of the employee joining the company.
Overtime rates should be specified in this contract. Once entered into, the contract cannot be changed without the agreement of both the employees and the company.

Thats another thing. Their contract keeps getting changed every few months and they are told to sign the new one.
They have them so scared that they do anything they tell them.
No matter what I say to him he wont stand up for himself. Neither will the rest of them.
Sure same story as above. Someone tried to get a union going and after management were finished with the rest of them he was left on his tod too.

mikemac · 02-07-2011 7:45pm

I can think of one day where I never left my desk once in ten hours, not even for a piss.
You can do kidney damage to yourself that way I believe, not good
My own fault of course and put workload above myself

Irish company
Manager instructed to cut costs so through people leaving and reduancies and doesn't bring in new hires this is achieved.

Existing staff get stressed doing a workload that isn't possible and get told "lucky to have a job"
Manager gets a bonus and top appraisal for their management skills :rolleyes:

Noreen1 · 02-07-2011 7:56pm

Bens wrote: »

Thats another thing. Their contract keeps getting changed every few months and they are told to sign the new one.
They have them so scared that they do anything they tell them.
No matter what I say to him he wont stand up for himself. Neither will the rest of them.
Sure same story as above. Someone tried to get a union going and after management were finished with the rest of them he was left on his tod too.

So who's "squealing" to management?

Check this out:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/industrial_relations_and_trade_unions/trade_unions.html

Management cannot prevent people from joining a union. I'd strongly advise you to get advice from a union. The behaviour you are describing is not only unacceptable - it's also illegal.

Why do you think so many employers hate trade unions?
The truth is, in a company where employment legislation is adhered to properly, union membership can be beneficial both to the company and the employees. It is only when the company doesn't want employees to know their rights/grant employees their rights, that union membership could be problematic for that company.

Bens · 02-07-2011 8:00pm

Noreen1 wrote: »
So who's "squealing" to management?

Check this out:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/industrial_relations_and_trade_unions/trade_unions.html
Management cannot prevent people from joining a union. I'd strongly advise you to get advice from a union. The behaviour you are describing is not only unacceptable - it's also illegal.

Why do you think so many employers hate trade unions?
The truth is, in a company where employment legislation is adhered to properly, union membership can be beneficial both to the company and the employees. It is only when the company doesn't want employees to know their rights/grant employees their rights, that union membership could be problematic for that company.

Its not my company, but from experience anywhere ive ever worked, talk about unions gets beaten down very quickley. So obviously its not as easy as you think.
If it was every company would have a union. Starting with Ryanair.

Are employers exploiting employees?

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