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Are employers exploiting employees?

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    #92
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I genuinely wish it was. I think a lot of people are going to have their rose coloured glasses dislodged over the coming years with regard to the unions.

    The equation is simple - if the risk of industrial action is higher than the probable income from that shop, the unions don't get involved. From the point of view of a union accountant it makes perfect sense - why would you want to support some people who are only calling on the unions in their hour of need, costing lots of money without having done the "time" first? I know that gives the lie to the posturing about worker solidarity, but this is how it works.


    sorry dude, I call bogus.

    You'll have to look up how unions work. they don't operate as businesses.

    anyway, off to brush up on me Marks n Spencer. nite


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    #93
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    sorry dude, I call bogus.

    You'll have to look up how unions work. they don't operate as businesses.

    anyway, off to brush up on me Marks n Spencer. nite
    Don't and shouldn't are often two different things, as pretty much all of Irish politics illustrates.


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    #94
    fat__tony
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭fat__tony


    I think this thread reinforces my view that the majority of employers in Ireland today are utter bastards.

    All because of the current economic climate.


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    #95
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I genuinely wish it was. I think a lot of people are going to have their rose coloured glasses dislodged over the coming years with regard to the unions.

    The equation is simple - if the risk of industrial action is higher than the probable income from that shop, the unions don't get involved. From the point of view of a union accountant it makes perfect sense - why would you want to support some people who are only calling on the unions in their hour of need, costing lots of money without having done the "time" first? I know that gives the lie to the posturing about worker solidarity, but this is how it works.


    The sad part is, it's not the business managers' job to think about the wider economy, that's a bit above their pay grade, although that doesn't excuse much. It's the job of the politicians to show a tiny bit of cop on and deal with the bigger picture. Either they are getting bad advice from the people in the civil service or they are disregarding said advice in favour of IBEC's kool aid, I'm guessing a healthy mix.

    I mean think about it, we have a selection of teachers, solicitors and publicans whose leader never received a paycheque that wasn't signed by the Irish taxpayer, trying to come up with ways to create jobs. The first people they blindly grope towards for guidance are those who employ low skilled workers. The idea that the success of minor businesses and the success of the wider economy might just be different things never occurs to them.

    This will not end well.

    It is, however, the Business managers job to think about how he's going to find a market for what the company produces/sells.

    It is even more the SME owners job to think about these issues - it's just that nobody seems to have explained this to them, and they don't seem to have the brains to figure it out for themselves, more's the pity.

    You're right, though.
    This will not end well.
    In 20 years, or less, we will have an under-educated workforce, because people will be unable to pay the cost of educating their children, no multinationals because of that, and no disposable income to spend in the SMEs.

    If we reach that point, there will be no turning back....


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    #96
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fat__tony wrote: »
    I think this thread reinforces my view that the majority of employers in Ireland today are utter bastards..

    I wouldn't know, meself. There are many that are, certainly.
    fat__tony wrote: »
    All because of the current economic climate.


    O no. No, no, no. Thats just the new name on the stick.


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    #97
    Jarren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭Jarren


    Kitchen Internship:rolleyes:

    https://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=-31121582_10&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=133&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM


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    #98
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    jarecki1976 wrote: »
    Kitchen Internship:rolleyes:

    https://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=-31121582_10&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=133&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

    sigh.


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    #99
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    I do my hours and no more. Thats the way i have always done it and always will.


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    #100
    aligator_am
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭aligator_am


    Personally, I think some employers are glad the recession has kicked in for one reason (I know there's lots of reasons why they're not glad that it has), during the boom years employees could generally flit between jobs fairly easily, but now the employers have the employees back over the barrell, just where they want them.

    Now the mindset of "lucky to have a job" has kicked back in, and as long as it prevails then you may expect some employers to milk it for all it's worth.


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    #101
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,577 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    aligator_am wrote: »
    Personally, I think some employers are glad the recession has kicked in for one reason (I know there's lots of reasons why they're not glad that it has), during the boom years employees could generally flit between jobs fairly easily, but now the employers have the employees back over the barrell, just where they want them.

    Now the mindset of "lucky to have a job" has kicked back in, and as long as it prevails then you may expect some employers to milk it for all it's worth.

    Yes indeed. Now watch the union membership grow as employees will be treated like dirt. Internship is slave labour and abusive of workers.


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    #102
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    fat__tony wrote: »
    I think this thread reinforces my view that the majority of employers in Ireland today are utter bastards.

    All because of the current economic climate.

    They were like this and as bad during the boom, however they had to treat people fairly as workers were in short supply and if you were been treated badly you could up sticks and jump ship to a new job straight away.

    However nowaday with the economic collapse employers think they can treat workers like dirt and that the crisis legitimises their actions. These are the same employers who won't pass on the VAT cut to customers and who want the minimum wage abolished they are scum and you'd be better off on the dole than working for their equals, as least you'd have your dignity intact.


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    #103
    Fago!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    The ****ing hack of employers doing this. They'd be aswell hanging their employees by their legs and shaking them for every penny that's in their pocket. These pricks are nothing more than bullys. A member of my family (and many people I know) is in the same situation - wage cut, long hours, if a coworker calls in sick she has to do their work for no extra money, being treated like a bitch by her employer with the "lucky to have a job" excuse.

    I've read this entire thread and everybody's stories and I feel sick and very sad now (particularly about a post on the 1st page about him working free for a month, then having his trial extended payless for 3 months). I genuinely hope things work out for him and all the people who shared their stories here.

    If this is what I have to look forward to when I finish college, I'm taking the advice of many many people who have done the same: getting the **** off this sinking boat of a country!


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    #104
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    sorry dude, I call bogus.

    You'll have to look up how unions work. they don't operate as businesses.

    anyway, off to brush up on me Marks n Spencer. nite

    I can personally attest to this. Tried to get a union into a previous employer, they weren't bothered even returning my calls. Said employer was riding roughshod over employees even during the boom, and by all accounts continues to do so. I knew of one guy who once literally slept in his office because his shifts at Christmas were so long they practically met in the middle. Irish company, incidentally.

    It's all well and good talking about labour law and such, but realistically, workplace culture persecutes whistleblowers. An employer might not be able to fire you explicitly for exposing them to prosecution, but they can certainly make your job quietly unbearable. You can certainly bring an exploitative company to court over a dismissal, but good luck getting another job afterwards.

    It's pretty bleak out there right now.


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    #105
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Definitely and can you blame them, with all the idiots around who tell employees they're lucky to have a job? I get one 15 minute lunch break in my whole teaching day (which is really 5 minutes by the time I get to the staff room and heat up my lunch) and am not even supposed to go to the toilet outside that lunch break and people still like to tell me how lucky I am. I do enjoy my job, but conditions like that are not acceptable, IMO.

    I do blame those people who jump through hoops to please the boss, no matter how unfair or demanding the request. My current job is becoming intolerable, with all the little 'extra' things we're supposed to do. It started with some admin work that wasn't part of the job description and now it's turned into reams of paperwork to be filled in every day, completely unpaid. All stuff that should be done by the receptionist or data entry people. If you leave when your working hours ends (which is what I do), the other employees decide you're 'not a team player', so some people finish teaching at 6 and are in the staff room until half 7, before going home and doing their (unpaid) preparation for the next day. So basically they're working for 11-12 hours a day and have no life at all outside work. The boss also e-mails at insane times of the day and night and expects immediate replies. Those kind of hours and conditions are fine for high flying, well paid executives, but for a badly paid (and hourly paid) teaching job? Feck that.

    No good deed goes unpunished.

    Employees should go in, do their contracted hours, and leave, unless they agree to do PAID overtime. People are deluding themselves thinking that by staying back a couple of hours unpaid every night they are going to advance their careers.

    In 95% of cases you are just being taken advantage of - then it becomes expected of you, and anyone who isn't doing this $hit is 'not a team player'. :rolleyes:


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    #106
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    I feel I am being exoloited and taken advantage of at work. I used to have a 10 hour working day, which is long enough but that has increased without warning to 11/12 hours a day and sometimes longer 13/14/15 hours a day sometimes. With the work that I do, I dont have anyone to come along and relief me for a break so it's all work. I don't eat properly. If I am lucky to get a meal fitted in, it is rushed. I dont sleep properly. A schedule like this takes every ounch of energy out from you.

    How old are you ?

    Are you being paid cash-in-hand, or paying tax ?

    Are you legally entitled to reside/work in Ireland ?

    Most of us had to work hard when we started out in the jobs market.
    I worked 14 hour days in a bar on weekends during college.
    During the summer I'd work up to 60 hour weeks when the other lads were off on holiday.

    Generally people cop on and move on after a while, or else get promoted enough to do the same to others.


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