Occupy movement- remember them??

FreudianSlippers · 23-09-2014 2:34pm

Guardian reporter stated that from the group themselves, they were intentionally disobeying police orders and provoking in order to be arrested on purpose. :rolleyes:

c_man · 24-09-2014 11:03pm

Well yeah but it's early days in the century yet.

Permabear · 25-09-2014 10:03pm

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20Cent · 26-09-2014 9:28am

Alleged greed and corruption on Wall Street?????
It is an established fact.

The intention was never to "wipe out" all student debt no one is claiming that. 4 million dollars worth has been cleared though. The intention is to highlight the murky world of debt collection. The debt collectors hounding people over debts actually could have paid a few cents in the dollar for it. Education is being turned into a commodity instead of something for the public good. Income inequality is becoming such an issue a two tier society is emerging where only the wealthy can attend college.

The connection between climate change and the financial sector is pretty clear to anyone who wants to see it. Public pressure for action on it is the only way it will be addressed. Making investment in clean fuels more attractive than investing in polluting fossil fuels. The Rockefellers for example have switched their investments to clean energy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29310475
"The Rockefeller Brothers Fund is joining a coalition of philanthropists pledging to rid themselves of more than $50bn (£31bn) in fossil fuel assets"

Expecting corporations and the financial sector to spontaneously decide to stop polluting and invest in clean energy is unrealistic this change will come about from public pressure.

jh79 · 26-09-2014 10:19am

The Occupy movement didn't highlight anything, majority of people know how debt collection works.

Why is it surprising that the Rockefeller's switched to clean energy, fossil fuel is a finite source what would you expect them to do keep going till it was all used up and then start investing in clean energy?

20Cent · 26-09-2014 12:33pm

Fed employee Carmen Segarra was so disgusted at the collaboration and close ties the Fed have with Goldman Sachs that she started taping conversations she had while at work.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/the-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes

For instance, in one meeting a Goldman employee expressed the view that "once clients are wealthy enough certain consumer laws don't apply to them." After that meeting, Segarra turned to a fellow Fed regulator and said how surprised she was by that statement -- to which the regulator replied, "You didn't hear that."

Tapes to be played today on the podcast "This American Life". Should be interesting.

Tabnabs · 26-09-2014 12:37pm

Already up on the This American Life podcast.

FreudianSlippers · 26-09-2014 3:35pm

Quite the misrepresentation there. They focused on one profit degree mill institution. They have done nothing re general student debt or the debt collection thereof.

Please say chemtrails, please say chemtrails!

20Cent · 26-09-2014 3:56pm

Not a misrepresentation at all the institution was selected for that very reason to highlight the for profit education sector.
A lot of the student debt is guaranteed by the government so won't make it to the secondary market. Student debt is being discussed all over the US it is the subject of upcoming bills etc

:rolleyes:

Permabear · 26-09-2014 5:02pm

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FreudianSlippers · 26-09-2014 5:06pm

Federal student loans are but AFAIK you correctly need to be enrolled in a valid state school

Permabear · 26-09-2014 5:19pm

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20Cent · 26-09-2014 5:54pm

Totally agree

I think that knowing the debt collector calling you has paid a few cents on the dollar for the debt they want paid back in full gives the person a little leverage to negotiate. Like the 1% do with their debt.

Agree it is a treated as a commodity arguing that it should not be. An educated population benefits everyone and higher education should not just be the preserve of the rich.

How do you think these reforms will come about? Corporations are going to do it on their own or will it come from public pressure.

Because of billions spent lobbying etc to halt reform. If the public put enough pressure on governments to ignore the lobbying then something can happen. Left to their own devices the polluting industries will destroy the planet for all of us.

20Cent · 26-09-2014 5:55pm

Exactly. you ok with that?

Permabear · 26-09-2014 6:37pm

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porsche959 · 26-09-2014 6:44pm

To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily put the Occupy movement in the same box as the climate change protestors. The occupy movement included plenty of genuine working class people. The climate change protestors are middle class trust fund types calling for taxes which would impact working class people disproportionately.

20Cent · 26-09-2014 7:43pm

Thats not the only option how about low interest loans payable when the person makes a certain amount per year. People starting their careers in massive debt which increases dramatically benefits no one except the financial industry selling these products.

No a mixture of both works well I think.

Don't trust politicians to regulate everything in the public interest. Leaving everything in the hands of private corporations whose only aim is to maximise profit isn't an option either. Its up to the public to put pressure on politicians to do the right thing. I would be interested in hearing the libertarian solution to climate change but won't be holding my breath. Everyone is well aware of the issues you are pointing out.

China is a good example of what happens when profit is the only motive cities covered in smog and horrendous pollution. Don't think anyone wants that in the west

Permabear · 26-09-2014 8:07pm

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20Cent · 26-09-2014 8:38pm

So no description of the alternatives or libertarian solutions to student debt or climate change just more of pointing out the obvious flaws in the system that is in place.

Permabear · 26-09-2014 9:00pm

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20Cent · 26-09-2014 9:17pm

When criticising something one usually offers alternatives which would be better solutions. That requires better solutions though. Hurlers on the ditch etc

Permabear · 26-09-2014 10:13pm

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20Cent · 26-09-2014 11:36pm

Thought that was done pages ago and had moved on my mistake.

hatrickpatrick · 29-09-2014 1:06pm

So you accept that corruption on Wall St is an established fact, and that the only debate is on the extent of that.
If you accept that, then do you also accept that the complete lack of action on this by the authorities and government is an absolute disgrace and evidence of either incompetence, negligence, or collusion?

As I said above, it seems to me that there are three options to choose from: Incompetence, negligence, or collusion.

I would very much like to believe that collusion is unlikely, although my instinct tells me that the close ties between money and politics make it likely enough. This graphic is particularly interesting:

Given that this chart deals with only two Wall St firms, I shudder to think what a wider investigation would reveal.
I would like to apply Hanlon's Razor to the global economic crisis - "Never attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by stupidity" - but it is rather difficult to do so.

Permabear · 29-09-2014 3:29pm

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hatrickpatrick · 30-09-2014 12:32pm

Agreed 100%.

And yet there have been no prosecutions whatsoever of specific individuals, and no moves to criminalize corrupt behavior which has been found to exist within legal loopholes.

...Are there really people who believe that in the first place? I've always argued that in terms of the government-banking axis, those on both sides are as bad as the other.

Permabear · 30-09-2014 4:38pm

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Occupy movement- remember them??

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