i want legal action against irish rail!

markpb · 05-10-2007 2:55pm

mrbatman wrote:

It is only recently i have signed up to boards.ie and as a commmuter myself i would keep an eye out for the topics in here. needless to say i won't bother asking any questions now as quite frankly it looks like a bunch of little hitlers who want to feel good about themselves.

As Calina said already, not everyone here is a bad as you've seen in this thread (at least not all the time

) The OP came here to rant, was rude in her replies and got the same treatment back at her. I don't condone it but if I'm rude to you, I wouldn't expect you to be nice in return.

Seriously! what help are comments like "move house" or "no one forced you to buy a house"? It is complete ignorance to give answer's like that. what is a person supposed to do?, pay 400k for a shoebox in Dublin or 100k less for a house down the train tracks?

In the last couple of years, we've seen a huge amount of people living not only miles away from their jobs but miles outside of Dublin complain because the roads are busy or because public transport has let them down. No-one is defending public transport (we know it's crap) but people have a responsibility to themselves.

If they buy a house 40km from work in a city that everyone knows has a failing public transport system, they should realise in advance that they'll have problems. If they're buying a house in a town where thousands more houses are being built, they should realise that there'll be even more problems down the line (no pun intended). Yes there are problems with house prices, yes apartments in Dublin are small but if this came as a surprise to anyone buying in the last four years, they've no-one to blame but themselves.

godtabh · 05-10-2007 3:05pm

popebenny16 wrote:

Have to re-edit this post as I issed that bit I bolded.

Sorry dont understand that bit.

popebenny16 wrote:

There is flexibility in the system, and IE have denied it is there. What is not there is a gap purposefully put in to allow for Docklands to be left unopened. We have seen the real timetable, not the one you get to see, and we have worked out that there are enough gaps for these services ab initio. Like I said, i am making a different point than you, my point is that for years IE say there was no such gaps, no capacity at all. We knew there was, now you know it too.

I thought IR were saying there wasnt spare capcaity not flexability. Big difference in the two.

The offical time table isnt set in stone is it? There are additions and changes ade in that every week with a circular going to all PW staff isnt there?

lostexpectation · 05-10-2007 3:09pm

OP> rent and move to dublin

Calina · 05-10-2007 3:11pm

markpb wrote:

Yes there are problems with house prices, yes apartments in Dublin are small but if this came as a surprise to anyone buying in the last four years, they've no-one to blame but themselves.

Ultimately the issue is that few people saw the house prices as problems, more as opportunities, if you like.

Realistically, I think - and this point has been made ad infinitum in here - commuting from outlying areas would work if the vast majority of the population didn't have to do it. I think far too high a proportion of the Dublin working population appear to be doing it.

As to how you rectify that - well I think that a lot of the apartment blocks that went up in the last 15 years will be levelled and rebuilt sometime in the next 30 years, and hopefully planned to accommodate lives, rather than investment portfolios. In tandem with that, I'd also have to say that we need to plan streets and roads and squares, rather than gated and walled developments. This would facilitate public transport planning greatly. I see the last 10 years as being profoundly a wasted opportunity, which is a pity. But we need to look to the future and learn from those mistakes. It's fine to harp on at the past, but not at the expense of the future.

popebenny16 · 05-10-2007 3:12pm

Actually Mark, I'm all for ranting about the system. Its not as if these housing developments have taken anyone by surprise, and by that I mean the DoT, IE and BE. They failed 100% to deal with it. Her fustration is a result of it. Do you honestly expect someone to come onto a transport and commuting board, share her fustration and expect to be told to move house/job? To be told ah, shure what do you expect - get a life?

Why bother having a Communting board at all then?

And since when does the useage of words in capitals, lack of capitals at the start of sentances and abreviation of words become commentable? I've ben on this board as long as most of the posters here, and I know there's an unwritten rule of boards.ie (and other message boards) that you just dont point these things out.

Yes, the majority of todays posts are more constructive but last nights were not. I'm sure someone will say "Use the report button..." but if you read these post you take it as a reporting.

popebenny16 · 05-10-2007 3:15pm

kearnsr wrote:

I thought IR were saying there wasnt spare capcaity not flexability. Big difference in the two.

The offical time table isnt set in stone is it? There are additions and changes ade in that every week with a circular going to all PW staff isnt there?

Could you explain the big difference so I know where you're coming from?

RE the Official time table and the weekly ciruclars. Not a lot of people know that. You seem to be making a lot of excuses for IE this week.

Calina · 05-10-2007 3:17pm

lostexpectation wrote:

OP> rent and move to dublin

To be honest, this is far too facile.

At this point in time, going from home ownership to rental is financially and administratively very difficult. You know and I know that in the medium term it might improve things, but once the purchase is made, it is difficult - and in a falling market extremely so - to implement. There is some argument to say it may be financial suicide for the moment too.

Ultimately my advice to the OP would almost be to grin and bear it if changing jobs is not an option. It would have been far, far better not to buy in Sallins in the first place, but that has been done to death here already.

Calina · 05-10-2007 3:21pm

popebenny16 wrote:

Could you explain the big difference so I know where you're coming from?

RE the Official time table and the weekly ciruclars. Not a lot of people know that. You seem to be making a lot of excuses for IE this week.

I have no idea how it works in the rail world but I suspect one man's flexibility is another man's spare capacity.

godtabh · 05-10-2007 3:25pm

popebenny16 wrote:

Could you explain the big difference so I know where you're coming from?

Spare capcity allows the system to work with out overloading it.

Flexbility allows the system to adapt if needed.

popebenny16 wrote:

RE the Official time table and the weekly ciruclars. Not a lot of people know that. You seem to be making a lot of excuses for IE this week.

Are you implying I work for Irish Rail? I dont but I am aware of how it is run from an egneering point of view.

I dont considered it making excusses. Its called a balanced debate

joePC · 05-10-2007 3:25pm

Thank God Dart/Trains are not part of my Daily commute any more. I cant understand why they never adopted the Double Decker trains they use in Sydney.

popebenny16 · 05-10-2007 3:26pm

Calina wrote:

I suspect one man's flexibility is another man's spare capacity.

Shouldnt that be in the Sex and Sexuality Forum?

I know some people who got very annoyed at the term "locosexual"

godtabh · 05-10-2007 3:29pm

joePC wrote:

Thank God Dart/Trains are not part of my Daily commute any more. I cant understand why they never adopted the Double Decker trains they use in Sydney.

They are to big

godtabh · 05-10-2007 3:29pm

joePC wrote:

Thank God Dart/Trains are not part of my Daily commute any more. I cant understand why they never adopted the Double Decker trains they use in Sydney.

There to big

markpb · 05-10-2007 3:30pm

joePC wrote:

Thank God Dart/Trains are not part of my Daily commute any more. I cant understand why they never adopted the Double Decker trains they use in Sydney.

Dwell time for darts is daft enough at the moment without adding to it. If we had double decker darts, the drivers would go off for a tea break

On a more serious note, I think all the bridges on the Dart and Dublin suburban lines have been raised to allow double decker trains to fit underneath them so it's all ready to go if the need arises (or the money is found).

paulm17781 · 05-10-2007 3:31pm

kearnsr wrote:

Spare capcity allows the system to work with out overloading it.

Flexbility allows the system to adapt if needed.

Yes, IE have stated for year that neither existed. Oh look, they do.

kearnsr wrote:

I dont but I am aware of how it is run from an egneering point of view.

No offense meant but you really don't seem to.

popebenny16 · 05-10-2007 3:33pm

kearnsr wrote:

Spare capcity allows the system to work with out overloading it.

Flexbility allows the system to adapt if needed.

Are you implying I work for Irish Rail? I dont but I am aware of how it is run from an egneering point of view.

I dont considered it making excusses. Its called a balanced debate

OK, well, IE says there is no capacity. They also imply that, since the system is running at a maximum, there is no flexibility. ("We cant get any more trains into Connolly" (C) Barry Kenny since the dawn of time)

As for my implication, I just thought I'd throw it out there. Is it balanced debate? It depends, because you take objection to out O/p's prediciment, you want proof that Docklands was closed, you're being pedantic to the point of obsurity about capacity/flexibility to make it look as if IE dont have capacity but do have flexibility and therefore they werent telling fibs all these years, and to top it all you state that Docklands was not a piss-poor temporary waste of time and money (ok, that's my spin on it) untill proof was presented to you - despite it being common knowlege on this forum for years.

Soory about that.

TheBigLebowski · 05-10-2007 3:35pm

mrbatman wrote:

It is only recently i have signed up to boards.ie and as a commmuter myself i would keep an eye out for the topics in here. needless to say i won't bother asking any questions now as quite frankly it looks like a bunch of little hitlers who want to feel good about themselves.
Seriously! what help are comments like "move house" or "no one forced you to buy a house"?
it is comlete ignorance to give answer's like that. what is a person supposed to do?, pay 400k for a shoebox in Dublin or 100k less for a house down the train tracks?
Perahps if a the smart posters took a closer look at the op's post they night notice that she typed "closer" in inverted comma's. (methinks it was a joke, perhaps about it's proximity to dublin and the journey time lenght).

I have to say good on you popebenny and murphaph, at least some people still have a bit of decency

But seriously, did the OP think about the consequences of moving to Sallins when they work on Northside Dublin. Getting from Sallins involves a train to Heuston, a light rail to connolly and and a train from connolly to the nothside. And the same on the reurn journey. This was the situation before you bought your house. This is unsustainable long term and unrealistic to expect the infrastructure to change for the better to meet your needs after you move in. Obviously this is not what you want to hear but it is the truth. You chose a bigger house for a smaller price and now you're paying for it. There's a reason why "shoe boxes" cost 400k.
Maybe I could buy one of those mansions in Cavan for 300k and then blame Irish rail for not having bullet trains to get me to Dublin in 40 minutes...

paulm17781 · 05-10-2007 3:37pm

joePC wrote:

Thank God Dart/Trains are not part of my Daily commute any more. I cant understand why they never adopted the Double Decker trains they use in Sydney.

This was planned for the post DRP to have double decker trains running Heuston - Howth. No idea if it is still planned.

godtabh · 05-10-2007 3:50pm

popebenny16 wrote:

OK, well, IE says there is no capacity. They also imply that, since the system is running at a maximum, there is no flexibility. ("We cant get any more trains into Connolly" (C) Barry Kenny since the dawn of time)

Most systems are run at 85% capacity to allow for unexpected events. A prime example being traffic lights. the extra 15% allows for larger than usual traffic flows.

I'm saying that conolly is at capacity (85%) with flexibility still left in the system (15%) to deal with unexpected events (docklands train).

popebenny16 wrote:

As for my implication, I just thought I'd throw it out there.

It if i did you would have used that to argue your point.

popebenny16 wrote:

Is it balanced debate? It depends, because you take objection to out O/p's prediciment

Being in a similar postion I feel I can do this. ANd I dont object to her concerns I dont think the argument she was trying to make is valid.

popebenny16 wrote:

you want proof that Docklands was closed,

I never siad it wasnt closed but I asked you to back up what you said as to the reason why it was closed.

popebenny16 wrote:

you're being pedantic to the point of obsurity about capacity/flexibility to make it look as if IE dont have capacity but do have flexibility and therefore they werent telling fibs all these years

I didnt think I was but hopefuly my first comment clears that up

popebenny16 wrote:

and to top it all you state that Docklands was not a piss-poor temporary waste of time and money (ok, that's my spin on it) untill proof was presented to you - despite it being common knowlege on this forum for years.

Just becuase its common knowledge doesnt mean that I knew. And just becuase its on these forums doesnt mean I've to take it as fact. Another poster pointed me in the right direction and now I know it as fact. So whats the problem? I do like to think for myself

paulm17781 · 05-10-2007 3:55pm

kearnsr wrote:

Most systems are run at 85% capacity to allow for unexpected events. A prime example being traffic lights. the extra 15% allows for larger than usual traffic flows.

I'm not sure how many times to say this. IE HAVE ALWAYS SAID THERE WAS NO ADDITIONAL CAPACITY. None for flexibility or anything. The other morning proved there was.

chipclub · 05-10-2007 4:00pm

The problem is with the basic infrastructure. We have one line that runs from Dundalk in to Dublin. This line has to cater for the Belfast - Dublin intercity, the northern Dundalk-Dublin commuter and the DART. In addition to this the Maynooth line merges just north of Connolly. This leads to the situation where a train from Drogheda to Connolly, a journey of about 30 miles, takes over an hour because it has to sit behind a DART. The 06:46 from Drogheda takes 1 hour 15 minutes to go to Pearse. It sits for 4 minutes in Malahide and another 4 in Portmarnock just to kill time to allow the DART and Maynooth trains to get into Dublin ahead of it. Therefore people have to endure a far longer time standing that they really should. I can handle standing and crowding if it isn't for too long but 50 minutes or more? A modern captial city that Dublin wishes to be should have at least two sets of lines for this sort of volume but it can never be done because they have gone and built on adjacent land in the last few years. Even now they are building along the line ensuring a single track service for ever more.

My major gripe with Irish Rail is the lazy timetabling. Every train stops at every stop. Why not have one that goes non-stop to Drogheda and then Dundalk? You'd cut the journey by about 20 minutes and take a lot of people off the other services running on the same line? There is no thought in their planning.

godtabh · 05-10-2007 4:03pm

paulm17781 wrote:

I'm not sure how many times to say this. IE HAVE ALWAYS SAID THERE WAS NO ADDITIONAL CAPACITY. None for flexibility or anything. The other morning proved there was.

I'm not sure what Irish Rail have said but I believe, after speaking to several people about it, is that what I've said previously.

85% is said to be at capacity.

Your still equating flexibility to capacity.

For me the only thing the other morning showed was that there wwas flexibility in the system. If the system was run with that service every moring for a certain time peroid with out any negative effects then yes it would have capacity. If the running off that service had negative effects such as delays else were it wouldnt but neither you nor I are in a postion to justify this so it would seem this will just keep going around and around.

Calina · 05-10-2007 4:08pm

chipclub wrote:

You'd cut the journey by about 20 minutes and take a lot of people off the other services running on the same line? There is no thought in their planning.

I'm not certain this is true as it would still back up behind trains that don't stop unless there were massive gaps in the timetable.

paulm17781 · 05-10-2007 4:15pm

kearnsr wrote:

I'm not sure what Irish Rail have said but I believe,

Wonderful. However the people who keep telling you this, do know what Irish rail have said. Give a source for your 85% theory or just accept that this is what they have said, on record, countless times.

Popebenny even pointed out that IE said there is no flexibility but still you argue. Just because you want something to be true, posting it on a message board 30 times doesn't make it so. None the less I'll try it, I'm going to find 30billion euro on the way home.

IE have stated in the past that there is no additional capacity. Most people knew there was and this showed that there is.

godtabh · 05-10-2007 4:25pm

paulm17781 wrote:

Give a source for your 85% theory or just accept that this is what they have said, on record, countless times.

Its standard engineering practice.

The results of the assessments are presented in terms of the ration of flow to capacity. The flow being trains into the station. The Ration of Flow to Capacity (RFC) measures the capacity of the station to deal with a give flow. A RFC of below .85 shows a junction that operates satisfactorily, while a RFC equal to or greater than .85 is considered to be a junction that is operating at or above capacity.

Thats the definition for how flow/capcity is measure (taken from junctions and adpoted here to show you were I'm coming from).

Again your still equating cacpity to flexability. If there was no fleibility if any train didnt run eactly to time table the sytem would grind to a halt.

popebenny16 · 05-10-2007 4:26pm

I'm saying that conolly is at capacity (85%) with flexibility still left in the system (15%) to deal with unexpected events (docklands train).

where are you getting this from?

several people

oh right, who arent in IE.

For me the only thing the other morning showed was that there wwas flexibility in the system.

Well, I'm glad that's what it showed you. What it showed everyone else was that IE have been spinning and lying for years.

I never siad it wasnt closed but I asked you to back up what you said as to the reason why it was closed.

The gates were locked. The doors were locked, the lights were off. There was no-one there. Is that back up enough?

You silly person, you.

Calina · 05-10-2007 4:26pm

TBH, from where I am sitting, it doesn't show extra capacity, it shows some redundancy to cater for unexpected events.

However, that's probably irrelevant right now. That being said, having spent rather a lot of time reading this thread today I have come to two conclusions

1) it's going around in circles and
2) it's going around in circles the other way as well.

Time to step backwards, y'all, and maybe - just maybe - go for a walk on this lovely evening. Fresh air does us all good.

i want legal action against irish rail!

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