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Could this spell the start of the end for FF

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    #182
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    raymon wrote: »
    Wider Road wrote: »
    If you raymon were asked the question the people in the opinion poll were asked, what would your answer be?
    Question was, if there was an election, who would you vote for?

    Undecided.

    I could never vote for a party associated with bank robbers and paramilitarists, or a party rotten to the core with corruption .

    So apart from FF and SF , I am pretty open minded.

    I have voted for FG , lab and independents in the past.


    So your answer is that you would not vote judging on the latest opinion poll.
    The question was if there was an election who would you vote for?
    So you at this time you would not vote!
    Have you any opinions?


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    #183
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    raymon wrote: »
    Undecided.

    I could never vote for a party associated with bank robbers and paramilitarists, or a party rotten to the core with corruption .

    So apart from FF and SF , I am pretty open minded.

    I have voted for FG , lab and independents in the past.

    FG didn't come out too well in the tribunals, I assume they are of the list?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #184
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I wouldn't be a sinn fein supporter but is that the best you can do?

    Now, I know about their history and having blood on their hands and all that, as do all the main parties here, but come on, large expenses and a few printer cartridges?

    After what bertie and his cronies did to the country and with what enda & co are currently doing to it, you could hardly call it disgraceful!


    It shows that they are no better then anyone else in the Dail despite claims to the contrary. The only reason they aren't as bad as Enda and Co is because they haven't(and hopefully wont ever) be given the chance. They've shown there true greedy colours/nature numerous times, they won't suddenly change in power.


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    #185
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    raymon wrote: »
    Wider Road wrote: »
    If you raymon were asked the question the people in the opinion poll were asked, what would your answer be?
    Question was, if there was an election, who would you vote for?

    Undecided.

    I could never vote for a party associated with bank robbers and paramilitarists, or a party rotten to the core with corruption .

    So apart from FF and SF , I am pretty open minded.

    I have voted for FG , lab and independents in the past.


    What election did you vote FG?
    What election did you vote Labour?
    What election did you vote independent, what's your constituency?


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    #186
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    Yet Raymon believes the newsworthy piece of this report is that FF are down 1 point. .

    In fairness though the way things are going with FF it's bad news that they're still rooted to roughly what they polled in the election. I dare say that the news from earlier about the O' Reilly's relinquishing control of INM is also more bad news for FF.


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    #187
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    FF will never die. They are paper and have lost to scissor and rock (new rules!:mad:) after a lot of tries. But watch when scissor and rock lose a few rounds, paper will be back. You cant have scissors and rock without paper, it just wouldnt be interesting.


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    #188
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    LOL . .
    • Government satisfaction down 14 points to 23% (i.e. less than 1 in 4 people are satisfied with the government)
    • Labour are down 6 points to 13 (which incidentally puts them one point behind FF when they were 4 points ahead)
    • Taoiseach satisfaction down 10%
    • Tanaiste satisfaction down 14%

    Yet Raymon believes the newsworthy piece of this report is that FF are down 1 point. .

    That is precisely my point ..... with the likes of Phil Hogan running around and FF can't even gain one percent .

    This is a shocking failure for FF.

    Long may their slide continue


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    #189
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    K-9 wrote: »
    FG didn't come out too well in the tribunals, I assume they are of the list?

    Yes - this is true that there were some bad eggs in FG .
    Anyone who accepts dodgy money should be expelled from any party.
    Absolutely shocking that a serving FG TD was named in a tribunal for accepting money.

    However as an organisation I don't believe FG to be corrupt.
    FG will not automatically get my vote next election unless their performance improves
    I would like them to expel anyone adversely named in a tribunal for starters . Even for 500 pounds .


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    #190
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Wider Road wrote: »
    So your answer is that you would not vote judging on the latest opinion poll.
    The question was if there was an election who would you vote for?
    So you at this time you would not vote!
    Have you any opinions?

    I always vote . As I said I am undecided . I dont know . All I know is that it won't be FF or SF .


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    #191
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    raymon wrote: »
    That is precisely my point ..... with the likes of Phil Hogan running around and FF can't even gain one percent .

    This is a shocking failure for FF.

    Long may their slide continue

    It's gas how you can describe a statistically insignificant movement as a 'slide' when most of the rest of us pretty much accept that FF are where they were this time last year. .

    What is your commentary on the Labour slide (which could more accurately be described a a slide) ?
    raymon wrote: »
    Yes - this is true that there were some bad eggs in FG .
    Anyone who accepts dodgy money should be expelled from any party.
    Absolutely shocking that a serving FG TD was named in a tribunal for accepting money.

    However as an organisation I don't believe FG to be corrupt.
    FG will not automatically get my vote next election unless their performance improves
    I would like them to expel anyone adversely named in a tribunal for starters . Even for 500 pounds .

    What about the party leader who has never openly accepted the findings of the tribunal and who thinks it's OK to stand on a podium at the NYSE with Denis O'Brien ? You OK with that ??
    raymon wrote: »
    I always vote . As I said I am undecided . I dont know . All I know is that it won't be FF or SF .

    You choose the most comfortable spot . . sit on the fence and throw mud in all directions. Never commit to anything and heaven forbid you should actually get involved and try to change anything.


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    #192
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Forget about FF - what the hell is going to happen Labour? :eek:

    Where will they be a year from now if that downward trend continues?

    EDIT: Although I guess an election is four years away at the end of the day - but still . . .


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    #193
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Before I answer , this thread is not about me , labour , FG , Denis O Brien, but I will answer anyway

    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    It's gas how you can describe a statistically insignificant movement as a 'slide' when most of the rest of us pretty much accept that FF are where they were this time last year. .

    What is your commentary on the Labour slide (which could more accurately be described a a slide) ?

    Ah yes margin of error again. Lol.

    Labour are falling like a rock , that is beside the point . My point is FF are failing to even make 1% gain in an environment of savage cuts.
    hallelujajordan wrote: »

    What about the party leader who has never openly accepted the findings of the tribunal and who thinks it's OK to stand on a podium at the NYSE with Denis O'Brien ? You OK with that ??

    I won't defend Enda Kenny . Denis o Brien is like a bad penny that always turns up.

    hallelujajordan wrote: »

    You choose the most comfortable spot . . sit on the fence and throw mud in all directions. Never commit to anything and heaven forbid you should actually get involved and try to change anything.

    You mean I don't blindly follow a party despite their failings like a football team ? Damn right.

    You have asked me this before , and I have repeatedly asked you back " what have you done yourself to change FF ?"

    Did you stand up and applaud at the ard fheis to Cowen?


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    #194
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Forget about FF - what the hell is going to happen Labour? :eek:

    Where will they be a year from now if that downward trend continues?

    EDIT: Although I guess an election is four years away at the end of the day - but still . . .

    True , labour are looking bad.

    Funny listening to Timmy Dooley FF TD on the radio this morning asked why FF is doing so badly . His defense was that labour are doing worse. Nothing like a bit of comedy on the radio in the morning.

    Probably time for FF to disband and let a new party form that can tackle SF FG and lab head on without the corruption baggage


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    #195
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    raymon wrote: »

    Ah yes margin of error again. Lol.
    damn statistics, eh ? ?
    raymon wrote:
    Labour are falling like a rock , that is beside the point . My point is FF are failing to even make 1% gain in an environment of savage cuts.

    I'm not displeased that FF are not making forward progress yet. . Rebuilding FF is a long-term project that really just started in earnest this year. . I don't want to see FF bouncing around from one opinion poll to another. . Do you think the jump for SF is something real and sustainable ? I don't. . When people come back to FF I want them to come back because they trust FF, because they believe that change has occurred and because they accept that FF can be good for Ireland .. not because they don't like Phil Hogan.

    You mean I don't blindly follow a party despite their failings like a football team ? Damn right.
    It's not about blind support . . its about committing to something, getting involved and trying to make a difference ..


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    #196
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    It seems Ruairi Quinn and Joan Burton have delivered, as much as the situation permits.
    On the whole, the rest of Labour have been fairly useless, with Gilmore himself being hugely detrimental.
    We always knew he was smug, but the man has been outright arrogant, with no attempts to hide it in recent months. He is doing huge damage to Labour.

    There have been no notable performers in Fine Gael apart from Kenny himself (and that mainly being because Cowen was such a screw up), and several have been detrimental - Hogan standing out obviously.
    Nobody within Fine Gael has delivered thusfar and several have been an embarrassment, with Brian Hayes being the most notable, and Reilly while not being an embarrassment, simply being a major let down.

    A politician must see it a situation as it really is - and respond to that -, not how they would like it to be.
    Fine Gael and Labour seem to have no concept of realpolitik.

    No matter how arrogant you become in your insulated Dail Eireann bubble, you have to at least pretend to sympathise with people who's lives are in turmoil.
    On an emotional level, Ireland is going through the equivalent of a world war with total contrast between present day and life 4 years ago.

    Could you imagine Winston Churchill coming out during the Blitz and tell the ordinary English man and woman to 'put up/shut up'? :rolleyes:


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    #197
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    On the whole, the rest of Labour have been fairly useless, with Gilmore himself being hugely detrimental.
    We always knew he was smug, but the man has been outright arrogant, with no attempts to hide it in recent months. He is doing huge damage to Labour.

    You could go back a few years and substitute Gormley/Greens in the above or go back even further and substitute in McDowell/PDs.

    What is it about the minor coalition party leaders that turns them into these overbearing patronising individuals? Is it that they are so emasculated at the cabinet table by the larger party's members, that they feel the need to come out and talk down to the electorate as some some form of self aggrandisation?


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    #198
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    Do you think the jump for SF is something real and sustainable ? I don't. .

    I hope not, we can agree there

    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    When people come back to FF

    People won't come back to FF , they are gone

    hallelujajordan wrote: »

    It's not about blind support . . its about committing to something, getting involved and trying to make a difference ..

    What are you committing to ? What core values do FF have ?


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    #199
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    FF need to hold on, and gain some seats and new blood in the LE 2014. If they don't, at best they will be minor rural party for a few elections like Clann na Talun and Clann na Poblachta

    In fact this poll also is bad news for FG and Labour.

    SF ? (1) worried about their association with criminality e.g. Ferris meeting the murderer of Gda McCabe

    (2) la la land economics - e.g Adams telling either IMF or ECB to go home and take their money with them

    (3) nonesense of the "average industrial wage" while scamming the taxpayer e.g. O'Sn odaigh and the printer cartridges


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    #200
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    .

    Probably time for FF to disband and let a new party form that can tackle SF FG and lab head on without the corruption baggage

    What is stopping a new party from emerging as it is?


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    #201
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What is stopping a new party from emerging as it is?

    There is nothing stopping a new party from forming . I hope more emerge

    My point is that there may be a few FFers that were not corrupt , or perjurers, or named adversely in a tribunal or accepted money from Owen o Callaghan that might want to form a party that isn't linked to the old corrupt FF organisation.
    I think that would be a breath of fresh air


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    #202
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    raymon wrote: »
    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What is stopping a new party from emerging as it is?

    There is nothing stopping a new party from forming . I hope more emerge

    My point is that there may be a few FFers that were not corrupt , or perjurers, or named adversely in a tribunal or accepted money from Owen o Callaghan that might want to form a party that isn't linked to the old corrupt FF organisation.
    I think that would be a breath of fresh air


    Would many FG'ers join (this new invisible party) considering FG accepted money from Denis O'Brien. How many times in total?
    By the way, Why did Denis donate it?
    Any ideas?
    Answers would be a breath of fresh air, wouldn't it?


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    #203
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Wider Road wrote: »
    Would many FG'ers join (this new invisible party) considering FG accepted money from Denis O'Brien. How many times in total?
    By the way, Why did Denis donate it?
    Any ideas?
    Answers would be a breath of fresh air, wouldn't it?

    Seems like you have been reading the Sunday Independent (weekly FF newsletter) too much

    I'm not going to defend FG or that Denis o Brien guy. Why should I.


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    #204
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Today's Sunday Times Behaviour & Attitudes State of Parties Poll results also show FF sliding.

    FF 15% (-1)


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    #205
    Foghladh
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Foghladh


    raymon wrote: »
    Today's Sunday Times Behaviour & Attitudes State of Parties Poll results also show FF sliding.

    FF 15% (-1)


    That's quite the slide alright. You started this thread 2 months ago with FF showing 16% in a poll. Now they're showing 15%. How would you read that?


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    #206
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Foghladh wrote: »
    That's quite the slide alright. You started this thread 2 months ago with FF showing 16% in a poll. Now they're showing 15%. How would you read that?

    Comparing apples to apples the S&A poll was 20% in Dec for the times , this represents a 5% drop for FF

    5% since Dec is a drop in my book .

    5% !!!!! They have lost one quarter of their support since Dec


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    #207
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    raymon wrote: »
    Today's Sunday Times Behaviour & Attitudes State of Parties Poll results also show FF sliding.

    FF 15% (-1)


    The slow car crash of FF.
    having an open goal against the gov in the last few month and losing ground.
    The only thing they are shouting about is rural schools, rural cop shops.
    So are people in rural areas going to pay higher taxes to keep them open. Or will it be urban dwellers handed the bill as usual.


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    #208
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Fantastic place for FF to be in - plenty of eejits (including myself) were saying that FF would be on 8% post Mahon.

    :)


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    #209
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Fantastic place for FF to be in - plenty of eejits (including myself) were saying that FF would be on 8% post Mahon.

    :)

    You will have to wait a few months for FF to be at 8%.
    The progress of their decline is steady but slow.

    Have some patience :)


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    #210
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Die hards die slow but they do eventually die.


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    #211
    john reilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭john reilly


    raymon wrote: »
    You will have to wait a few months for FF to be at 8%.
    The progress of their decline is steady but slow.

    Have some patience :)
    where was f.g in the polls 6 or 7 years ago. they are now in goverment admiitedly not because people wanted them in goverment, but because people didnt want f.f in goverment. given their governance so far f.f can look forward to being pert of the nest goverment, not because they will want f.f in goverment but because they wont want f.g


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