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Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    who_me wrote: »
    The Albert Quay proposal is obviously the 2nd option, Beamish the 3rd. Personally, I think the Beamish proposal could have a massive impact on the city traffic. There isn't a large local population, so inevitably you'll have a LOT of cars, taxis and mini-buses setting-down to deliver the ~6,000 attendees. South Main St. is now single-lane, as is French's Quay, meaning a lot of potential for traffic to back-up onto Tuckey St. (one lane), Washington St. (one lane westward) and even onto Grand Parade.

    What's the 1st option ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    What's the 1st option ?

    Don't waste public funds building it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    What's the 1st option ?

    Something up by the train station like another poster suggested a few posts up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda


    Bacchus wrote: »
    Something up by the train station like another poster suggested a few posts up.

    If only Irish Rail had the resolve, they could do great things with that site they have down there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    What's the 1st option ?

    Somewhere adjacent to the train station, bus station (don't think there's any nearby site large enough, though there is a lot of run-down and unused property immediately behind it).

    The North Docklands could be ideal transport-wise. Right next to the train-station, easy road access to the East (and not too hard to get to the Link from there), 5/10 minutes walk to the bus station, Aircoach and Citylink leaving from St. Patricks Quay, a couple more to Patrick St.

    But that site wouldn't be as good in terms of pre/post restaurants and bars, of course. The Albert Quay and in particular the Beamish sites are better in that regard. It really is a "swings and roundabouts" decision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    There's no site anywhere in Cork City with decent transport links. The city just hasn't been built (i would say planned but...) that way.

    The Beamish proposal has the most to offer in terms of urban regeneration and providing a focal point for cultural, social and entertainment activity in the city.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Just heard on radio,the decision to be announced on the 14 July.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Just heard on radio,the decision to be announced on the 14 July.

    That's the City Council decision on whether or not the council will they will invest.

    The report, which will indicate the preferred developer, is being issued on July 8th.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    Glad to hear of progress on this, should have a better idea of what's happening quite soon


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    So whats the plan to allow for the traffic at the beamish site? parking and so on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    So whats the plan to allow for the traffic at the beamish site? parking and so on.

    Sure they haven't even announced the site yet. Who knows what the plan is. At least we're getting a decision on the site soon. Wonder when we could realistically expect it to be completed? 2016?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    So whats the plan to allow for the traffic at the beamish site? parking and so on.
    City centre car parks
    On street parking
    Park at sites outside the city centre and get a bus in, e.g. the park and ride


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    So whats the plan to allow for the traffic at the beamish site? parking and so on.

    In terms of parking for that site there is no plan. But sure let a plan get in the way of progress. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    City centre car parks
    On street parking
    Park at sites outside the city centre and get a bus in, e.g. the park and ride

    City centre car parks are very expensive and l'm not sure they're open after midnight. The one by the Opera house closes. So how will that work for a late night event centre.

    On street parking. Where ? They're about 30/40 spaces in that general area !!! There's no parking on Patrick St now !

    Park and ride ? not exactly a plan for parking.

    Maybe everybody can cycle or walk in or even jog and we're sorted !!

    Another joke of a planning decision.

    Albert Quay would have been much better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    clerk wrote: »
    On street parking. Where ? They're about 30/40 spaces in that general area !!!

    There's a hell of a lot more then that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    City centre car parks are very expensive and l'm not sure they're open after midnight. The one by the Opera house closes. So how will that work for a late night event centre.

    On street parking. Where ? They're about 30/40 spaces in that general area !!! There's no parking on Patrick St now !

    Park and ride ? not exactly a plan for parking.

    Maybe everybody can cycle or walk in or even jog and we're sorted !!

    Another joke of a planning decision.

    Albert Quay would have been much better.
    Do you want an car park with a escalation to your seat as well?

    City centre car parks can open after midnight if the business is there.
    On street parking is all over the city. Have you a problem with parking maybe a 15-20min walk away?
    Yes, park and ride. What's the big deal with getting a bus out to a parking location?

    What's with the need to have everyone drive and park to the doorstep of the event centre?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    Sure build it out by the Kinsale Rd roundabout altogether!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    60,000 people can attend Croke Park without parking. Surely getting 5,000 people to the event centre can be well handled by taxis, hackneys, public buses, private buses, car parks, spins etc.

    I hope it's built on the Beamish site. It'll be great for the city.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    There's a hell of a lot more then that!

    Where ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    1] City centre car parks can open after midnight if the business is there.
    On street parking is all over the city.

    2] Have you a problem with parking maybe a 15-20min walk away?

    3] Yes, park and ride. What's the big deal with getting a bus out to a parking location?

    1] ok - but are they actually going to open. Nobody has said they will.

    2] l'd walk 15-20 minutes no bother but l'll be accused of being sexist here but l don't know a woman that would walk 15-20 minutes in the high heels and all the rest for a night out. Ain't going to happen.

    3] Not being smart but seriously waiting around in the pissing rain springs to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    Where ?
    Visit South Mall (as just one example) and count more than 30/40 spaces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    60,000 people can attend Croke Park without parking.

    Are you for real ?

    It's bedlam trying to get parking for Croke Park at a big match. You suggest the plan for a NEW site should copy the bedlam for already built sites.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭clerk


    Visit South Mall (as just one example) and count more than 30/40 spaces.

    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    clerk wrote: »
    You suggest the plan for a NEW site should copy the bedlam for already built sites.

    That's 60,000 people coming from other parts of the country. Do you think we could manage 5,000 primarily Cork people with our taxis, hackneys, buses, car parks, on-street parking and cycle lanes? Of course we could. It should be at the Beamish site in the heart of the city.

    You'd like to be able to drive into the event centre and watch events from your car wouldn't you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    1] ok - but are they actually going to open. Nobody has said they will.
    And who has said they won't?
    I don't know, I'd imagine it's very likely they'll open.
    We don't need to spend unnecessary money on a another city centre car park which would just encourage further traffic chaos, the streets of Cork can't handle it.
    clerk wrote: »
    2] l'd walk 15-20 minutes no bother but l'll be accused of being sexist here but l don't know a woman that would walk 15-20 minutes in the high heels and all the rest for a night out. Ain't going to happen.
    Visit the O2 sometime, they manage there.
    And it is sexist to suggest they couldn't walk 15-20mins (not all wear high heels, those that do they are well used to them, many carry flats with them, ....).

    clerk wrote: »
    3] Not being smart but seriously waiting around in the pissing rain springs to mind.
    The rain may be an issue, but welcome to Ireland/Cork. What do people do when they go to Musgrave/Thomand for a match/gig?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    clerk wrote: »
    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.
    No, I'm not from the city.
    But I lived/parked in the city for a few years.

    If you want to be childish, then that's up to you. But it's not going to lead to a debate. Nor is being sexist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    clerk wrote: »
    City centre car parks are very expensive and l'm not sure they're open after midnight. The one by the Opera house closes. So how will that work for a late night event centre.

    On street parking. Where ? They're about 30/40 spaces in that general area !!! There's no parking on Patrick St now !

    Park and ride ? not exactly a plan for parking.

    Maybe everybody can cycle or walk in or even jog and we're sorted !!

    Another joke of a planning decision.

    Albert Quay would have been much better.

    No decision has been made. Albert Quay is still very much in the mix.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    clerk wrote: »
    mate you're obviously not from the City - lt's practically impossible to get a "free" spot on the South Mall at the weekend - 40 spaces on South Mall - you having a laugh.

    Used to try to get to the City years ago for the City cinema and you'd be very lucky to get 1 space and often none.

    Seriously if you're going to have a debate - try to keep it real.

    Ahm I was actually going to ask earlier have you even been to Cork city, if youre out by eight its very easy to get on street parking and regardless of the time its easy on any night but Saturday. The beamish site is by far the easiest area to get to for those living in cork city or those who would be staying overnight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭ComeraghBlue


    we could end up with neither of them now


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    we could end up with neither of them now

    Yes. There needs to be an opearator involved with the tenders and, now that the main credible operator has withdrawn from the process, the whole project is in jeopardy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Michael..


    It's my understanding that Heineken have an operator on board. How else would they have submitted the documents ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    we could end up with neither of them now
    evilivor wrote: »
    Yes. There needs to be an opearator involved with the tenders and, now that the main credible operator has withdrawn from the process, the whole project is in jeopardy.

    Talk about jumping to conclusions.The Leeds and Berlin Arena's that Bam have built in recent years are operated by AEG and SMG.Who said Live Nation were Bam's definite and only choice?.

    So if O'Callaghan is gone,well done Brewery Quarter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschutz_Entertainment_Group
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMG_(property_management)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Michael.. wrote: »
    It's my understanding that Heineken have an operator on board. How else would they have submitted the documents ?

    Live Nation was set to operate whichever Cork event centre received the go-ahead for State funding.

    A spokesperson for O’Callaghan Properties said they were not in a position to submit a tender because of the non-participation of the operator Live Nation in the process.

    “There is a specific requirement under the tenders conditions for an operator to be involved and to provide signed covenants for a tender to be accepted,” the spokesperson said.

    The second bidder, Bam and Heineken at the Beamish site, have submitted a tender however without an operator on board it is not known where the process will now go.

    The Heineken and Bam bid will be examined over the weekend by the consultants PwC who were due to make a recommendation to Cork City Council next week.

    If a new operator is required it could add months to the process to develop an event centre for the city.


    http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/07/05/city-event-centre-plan-turmoil/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Flesh Gorden


    Well it's a shame that O'Callaghan were unable to place the final tender application.

    From a logistics stand point I had been trying to weigh up both sites:


    Parking:

    Crawford:

    - Wandsford Quay Multi-Storey: - Vital spot, although queuing from the St. Als direction would block access to Washington Street for people wanting to turn left, but with only one lane now by the Cathedral, it may cause gridlock further back along French Quay/Proby's Quay.

    - Old Sir Henry's Site: - decent short term drop off site which is empty by evening, but too small considering the size of the venue.

    - Plus it's almost a guarantee that people will try and park as close as possible to the venue and will end up abandoning their cars in the new cycle lanes, no matter how good people's intentions appear to be at this stage.


    Alberts Quay:

    - City Hall: - Really good spot, queuing not really a problem to traffic with the extra lanes beside it

    - Monahan Road: - The last large area of free parking left in the city; empty by 6pm.

    - Privately owned site on Centre Park Road: - Odd opening hours, but they'd hardly miss out on an opportunity like nearby large concerts.

    - Kennedy Quay: - Vast empty area that could be used on event nights which has been used very well last year during Rebel Week without any disruption to

    - Victoria Road (before the roundabout) - has enough space for larger coaches and taxis to park without causing any disruption on cars using the road.


    Clearing the Crowds:

    My main concern now that I've put a bit of thought into it is can the Crawford site handle 8,000 people exiting an event without the nearby streets having to be closed off to all traffic.

    The Albert Quay area has been host to both the Cannonball motoring event and the Rebel Week celebrations over the past few years where the only disruption to traffic was about 30 mins when the Cannonball cars were being escorted into the old bonded warehouse along with the crowds who followed.

    And as we've seen with the Marquee gigs, taxis will try to get as close as possible after, plus you may have a number of private coaches waiting for people along with people driving in to collect friends and family.


    Given it's proximity to the bus station and visibility from the proposed new train station entrance, the Albert Quay site would have cleared a larger number of people off the streets quicker as they won't have to walk through the city centre to get back onto public transport.

    Assuming events will end at 11pm, The South Main street and Washington Street areas are already getting busy by that time on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays with the number of nightclubs in the area. Add an extra 8,000 people into the mix and it's going to get very interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Fabio


    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Fabio wrote: »
    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...

    According to the Irish Examinet they expressed concerns about certain terms attached to the investment of public money in the project.

    There is speculation that the BAM/Heineken may not be valid without Live Nation Ireland on board - having an operator as part of the bid is a legal requirement - and they proceeded without one, O'Callaghan having pulled out as they also, had no operator on board.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    Has there been any thought given to the fact that Heiniken/BAM are huge companies who might have back up operators on board?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    CHealy wrote: »
    Has there been any thought given to the fact that Heiniken/BAM are huge companies who might have back up operators on board?

    They didn't have one in the bid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭rebs23


    Fabio wrote: »
    I wonder why Live Nation pulled out of the bid(s)? Seems no one knows just why as of yet...
    All the reports say the conditions in the tender.
    There has been speculation that they were very onerous.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Fabio


    I'd love to see the conditions and see what the actual objection was. This could well result in nothing happening at all... :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    I'd say the longer we don't hear anything the better. If the Bam & Heineken proposal really is invalid then it shouldn't take the long for the expert panel to reject it.
    However if they spend a while examining it hopefully it means there talks are taking place with Live Nation to resolve whatever issues they have.
    I guess we'll find out before that Council meeting on Monday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    rebs23 wrote: »
    All the reports say the conditions in the tender.
    There has been speculation that they were very onerous.

    After the "Event Centre" in Mahon Point, is it any wonder that the conditions are somewhat onerous? If €16m is being given to/invested in* this project, you'd expect that investment to be safeguarded.

    * actually, does anyone know how the public funds would work? Is it a once-off injection of funds with conditions? Does the Government and/or council buy a stake in the new business?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    I'd say the longer we don't hear anything the better. If the Bam & Heineken proposal really is invalid then it shouldn't take the long for the expert panel to reject it.
    However if they spend a while examining it hopefully it means there talks are taking place with Live Nation to resolve whatever issues they have.
    I guess we'll find out before that Council meeting on Monday.

    But if they continue with the BAM tender, who proceeded even though they don't have an operator on board, it would be unfair on O'Callaghan, who didn't.

    O'Callaghan followed procedure, BAM didn't.

    This could all end up in the High Court.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 719 ✭✭✭calnand


    That was one of the issues of the Investment being made by the City Council, at present they are one of the biggest funders of the Opera House, and by investing in the event centre they would potentially be taking away business away from the Opera House, but the Opera House can only hold around 1000(seated, not sure about standing) whereas the new venue would hold in excess of 5000. These are two completely different venue sizes for potential acts to choose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    evilivor wrote: »
    But if they continue with the BAM tender, who proceeded even though they don't have an operator on board, it would be unfair on O'Callaghan, who didn't.

    O'Callaghan followed procedure, BAM didn't.

    This could all end up in the High Court.

    Well I assume the Council and the expert panel won't proceed unless they have legal advice that the Bam proposal is legit, we'll have to wait and see.

    But I agree with you, it'll probably end up in the High Court.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    I did'nt know that the O2 in Dublin was owned by Live Nation.Did they feel they were getting a raw deal to operate here and this arena could effect their crowds in Dublin?.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_(Dublin)

    For what its worth,the Odyssey Arena in Belfast is operated by SMG.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    I did'nt know that the O2 in Dublin was owned by Live Nation.Did they feel they were getting a raw deal to operate here and this arena could effect their crowds in Dublin?.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_(Dublin)

    For what its worth,the Odyssey Arena in Belfast is operated by SMG.

    Livenation also operate the Bord Gais Energy theatre in Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    I would say that the BAM/ Heinken bid could overcome LiveNation withdrawing easier than O'Callaghan. They already run a similar venue in Amsterdam - the Heineken Music Hall.

    It would be a shame if the project was shelved.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭evilivor


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    I would say that the BAM/ Heinken bid could overcome LiveNation withdrawing easier than O'Callaghan. They already run a similar venue in Amsterdam - the Heineken Music Hall.

    It would be a shame if the project was shelved.

    The Heineken Music Hall in Amsterdam is run by LiveNation.


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