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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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    #152
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Deleted User wrote: »
    what?

    perhaps try reading my posts again. Find me where I posted any of that.

    Again, my point was that calling a player greedy or saying that they held the IRFU ransom based on what you've just called hearsay (though print media is usually quite careful about this) whilst championing someone else based on hearsay (which the DOC/Leamy situation most clearly is) is ridiculous.

    Again you've missed the boat. Again I've been drawn into this ridiculous back and forth nonsense that you seem to love. Again I have ignored my own advice, and again I will read my sig, take a deep breath and bid you adieu.

    Oh, I get it now. You believe what you want to believe. :rolleyes:

    PS - yes, print media does exactly what posters do and put in a 'reported to be' or 'rumoured to be' . Its laughable that you'd not take everything with a grain of salt that the Indo would publish :D


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    #153
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Can we not have this thread go down in flames please? I know it's hard to divorce the subject of player salaries from rugby discussion but I'm not seeing much of either being discussed here - Attack the post not the poster, and remember everyone might have their own opinion. That's the mantra, lest you forget it.


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    #154
    d18doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭d18doyle


    molloyjh wrote: »

    Yeah it looks like he'll be cover for the international windows all right. Let's just hope we don't suffer the numerous injuries at the start of this season like we did last...with our injuries and internationals we'd have something like this for the start of the season maybe?

    1. HVdM/McGrath
    2. Strauss/Dundon/Sexton (Strauss could well be called into the international set-up from the start of the season)
    3. Hagan/Bent/Moore
    4. Cullen/Browne/Denton
    5. Toner/Flanagan
    6. Locky/RUDDOCK (Locky could be included in the international set-up too depending on Fez)
    7. Jenno/Ryan/Murphy
    8. Auva'a/Coughlan

    9. Boss/Cooney
    10. Madigan/Reid
    11. Carr
    12. Goodman/O'Shea
    13. Macken
    14. Conway/Hudson
    15. Nacewa

    Coughlan-Murray might get a look in there too given how light we are in the back line. Any injuries there and we could have some serious trouble.

    IIRC Ruddock is out for the first part of the season, so looking ropey at 6 :-(


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    #155
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    Noel Reid should be in that position. Its highly a conservative move and shows lack of trust in Reid. If Irish rugby was run correctly somebody like Scott Deasy would have gone on loan instead.


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    #156
    yimrsg
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭yimrsg


    profitius wrote: »
    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    Noel Reid should be in that position. Its highly a conservative move and shows lack of trust in Reid. If Irish rugby was run correctly somebody like Scott Deasy would have gone on loan instead.

    Reid was out of his depth in the B&I cup last year so if Sexton or Madigan are injured, he'd be exposed badly if required to play in their boots in the rabo 12. It was the same scenario last year when Leinster got Berquist in as Sexton's backup.

    It's not a slight on Reid, its Leinster being astute and covering themselves in case of an injury to Sexton or Madigan.


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    #157
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,295 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Sexton and Madigan actually are going to be away a lot then Reid may not be sufficient cover at 10. Course I think Schmidt is over estimating Kidney if he thinks Madigan will actually be in squads.


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    #158
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    profitius wrote: »
    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    So what happens if Madigan and Sexton are called up. Reid and Nacewa will be the only 10 options, with Reid starting and Isa at full-back who will they have on the bench? Marsh?
    What happens if D'Arcy and McFadden are called up again. This time Fitz is not around to fill the void and Sheridan is gone. That leaves Colm O'Shea on his own with Reid able to play 12.
    But looking at the worst case scenario, what if Madigan, Sexton, D'Arcy and McFadden are called up. Without Goodman you'd be looking at a back line + subs that would look like this.

    10. Reid
    11. Carr
    12. O'Shea
    13. Macken
    14. Conway
    15. Nacewa

    22. .....Marsh?
    23. .....Hudson?

    Goodman is a necessary signing imo, and the fact that he's a nobody who only has ITM experience and has been signed on a 1 year deal emphasises that he will be used when the situation calls for it and little more than that. Take possible injuries into account as well.


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    #159
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    profitius wrote: »
    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    It was always going to be very likely that a NIQ spot went to someone who fills the roll that Goodman will. Leinster are going to be very, very light in the back line for parts of the season. Out of the senior panel they only have Macken (21) and Madigan (23) available that can play 10 and 13 and nobody that plays 12. There's only Reid and O'Shea in the academy that can provide any further cover and, personally, I don't think O'Shea is up to it. Those could be the only players that will be around for the first 5 games. Goodman has experience at 10, 12 and 13 but won't significantly hinder development of others and, I assume, won't be breaking the bank.


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    #160
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I don't think it's any lack of faith being shown to Reid or O'Shea. They're developing players and they know it - by the looks of it Goodman won't be here until November anyway, so I would wager we'll be seeing cameos from Reid and O'Shea anyway.

    Reid could come through just like Madigan did when Berqy was signed up and didn't end up showing us what he could do due to injury.

    Why sign Goodman then? Well, what happens if Reid or O'Shea aren't up for it at league level? Or if they get injured? Or if we rush their progress? Why not just take a 12/playmaker who has a fair bit of solid experience in a similar league and is probably as cheap as chips.


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    #161
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Jordan Coughlan? No chance. Not physically developed enough for first team. Anyway-I reckon Jack Conan is ahead of him as an 8.

    What's the story with Conan at the moment? He's not listed in the Academy...
    d18doyle wrote: »
    IIRC Ruddock is out for the first part of the season, so looking ropey at 6 :-(

    You're right. Forgot about that. We should have enough cover in the back row though with Locky, Jenno, Ryan, Coughlan, Conan and Murphy. If Locky gets called up for the AIs again though we could be in a spot of bother.
    profitius wrote: »
    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    I take it Goodman is there to cover OH, centre and wing as and when we need him. I don't see him being a barrier to other players development.


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    #162
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Has there been word that Goodman won't be joining until later in the year? I know some SA players have held off joining until the end of the Currie Cup but that generally starts a few weeks earlier than the NPC which starts at the same time as the Pro12. Given he's on a 1 year deal, I'd be surprised/disappointed if he was staying in NZ until the NPC season is done with.


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    #163
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Most clubs have 3 outhalves who have signficant experience at senior level, at the very least Goodman is being signed for the same reason Ulster have brought back Niall O'Connor.


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    #164
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    molloyjh wrote: »
    What's the story with Conan at the moment? He's not listed in the Academy...
    Academy on the website hasn't been updated for the new season and he was sub academy last year. He is going into the academy as year one for this starting.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79493795&postcount=18

    Here is a list of players involved in the academy this season.


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    #165
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Surely theres a few AIL players out there who could fill a similar role. The chances of him being used much are small and I'm sure in an emergency situation one of the other provinces could help out.

    Its worth remembering that Madigan only got a proper opportunity last season because Berquist got injured.

    I think Irish teams are far too quick to look abroad and seem to overlook the AIL. Robin Copeland has just signed for Cardiff after really impressing in the English championship. He was playing in the AIL/championship as Leinster were signing the likes of Ed O'Donoghue.


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    #166
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,295 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We don't know how much time Madigan would have gotten without Berquist's injury.

    Third choice outhalf/centre is one of those positions where I don't think it matters who is there. They obviously want someone with a bit of experience and ability to play across the back line. Whether it's someone brought up from the AIL or someone brought in from ITM they're not going to be of a standard where they'll play for Ireland anyway.

    Also Leinster signed EOD from Ulster after he's been in Irish squads...


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    #167
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    profitius wrote: »
    Surely theres a few AIL players out there who could fill a similar role. The chances of him being used much are small and I'm sure in an emergency situation one of the other provinces could help out.

    Its worth remembering that Madigan only got a proper opportunity last season because Berquist got injured.

    I think Irish teams are far too quick to look abroad and seem to overlook the AIL. Robin Copeland has just signed for Cardiff after really impressing in the English championship. He was playing in the AIL/championship as Leinster were signing the likes of Ed O'Donoghue.
    Copeland is more a backrow. God knows we have enough of them.


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    #168
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    There are guys in the AIL that could sit as third choice in the squad, yes, but what happens when an injury bumps them into bench duty for a HEC game? You need someone that is a professional player and there's no top level side around that doesn't have at least three genuine options at outhalf. The fact that Goodman is likely to be called on to play in an important position in a number of games means we can't trust someone from the AIL to step up to the level of a professional player on multiple occasions.

    Copeland was in the Leinster academy. He was released and deemed not good enough. He has improved a lot since leaving for the UK. The first time he came back to Dublin he was sitting on the bench for Plymouth Albion against Leinster A. I'd hold fire before we start thinking of him as one that got away.


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    #169
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    I hear what you're all saying but these sort of signings are ridiculous. The IRFU have to take control of the provinces.

    Last season Save Tokula was signed by Munster and put straight into the team ahead of Dineen, Deasy, Barnes etc. That was another example of the wastage.


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    #170
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The new IRFU dictats stop provinces signing NIQ injury cover, so there will be no more Tokula like signings.


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    #171
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I can only assume the IRFU approve all these signings the branches are making?


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    #172
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    profitius wrote: »
    I hear what you're all saying but these sort of signings are ridiculous. The IRFU have to take control of the provinces.

    I dunno, I think the signing of this Goodman guy is exactly the sort of foreign guy that should be signed. He's there as emergency cover only, I can't see how he's going to hold anyone back and he's on a 1-year contract so whatever detriment he causes to Reid's development will be very short-lived. Put it this way, next season, Leinster will have four foreigners; Nacewa, VdM, Roux and Goodman. Only Nacewa is going to be in the first team (and maybe Roux if he turns out to be any use), so we'll be taking the field in the HC with 14 IQ players. I'd be shocked if any other team in the entire tournament can match that.
    profitius wrote: »
    Last season Save Tokula was signed by Munster and put straight into the team ahead of Dineen, Deasy, Barnes etc. That was another example of the wastage.
    Now that was ridiculous. It was right up there with that other waster, the Aussie guy whose name escapes me.


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    #173
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,007 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    profitius wrote: »
    I hear what you're all saying but these sort of signings are ridiculous. The IRFU have to take control of the provinces.

    Last season Save Tokula was signed by Munster and put straight into the team ahead of Dineen, Deasy, Barnes etc. That was another example of the wastage.

    I’ve heard it said before that when people say “I hear what you’re saying” it quite often means that they haven’t listened to a word the other person has said and your post is a clear example of it.

    Several posters have stated why this is a necessary signing but rather than give reasons why they are wrong you just call it “ridiculous” and then compare it to a Munster signing that isn’t even similar. I’m all for giving young players as many chances as possible and I have full faith in Schmidt to do just that, especially given how cheap a wage Goodman will be coming over on.


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    #174
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    totallegend wrote: »
    Now that was ridiculous. It was right up there with that other waster, the Aussie guy whose name escapes me.

    Rocky Elsom? What an utter journeyman!


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    #175
    the perfect ten
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭the perfect ten


    profitius wrote: »
    It looks like Leinster were determined to use up their last NIQ slot by the signing of Goodman. No offence to him but signing a journeyman pro who will be third choice is a kick in the teeth for the young players.

    Noel Reid should be in that position. Its highly a conservative move and shows lack of trust in Reid. If Irish rugby was run correctly somebody like Scott Deasy would have gone on loan instead.

    How many times did Reid start at outhalf for Clontarf last season?


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    #176
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Most clubs have 3 outhalves who have signficant experience at senior level, at the very least Goodman is being signed for the same reason Ulster have brought back Niall O'Connor.

    :eek:.... So Leinster need a laughing stock now...:D How bad is this guy?;)


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    #177
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    profitius wrote: »
    I hear what you're all saying but these sort of signings are ridiculous. The IRFU have to take control of the provinces.

    Professional Contracts Review Group. That is the name of the IRFU body that approves all these "ridiculous" signings.

    Goodman is there because Leinster are really light in the back line with the injuries and international absences. Should we suffer the wrong injury (Nacewa for example) we could be left in serious trouble. We'd have a back line that consists almost solely of inexperenced players. The most experienced back we'd have would be Carr. After that Madigan. And then a drop to the likes of Macken, Conway and Cooney. This signing is all but an absolute necessity. Given that he is being pushed as a utility back that says to me that he won't be in any one single spot and so not hampering any one single players development.

    I'd actually be more concerned with the Laulala signing myself. There's no shortage of experience in the Munster back line even with the internationals away. They'll have Keatley, Downey and Howlett at the very least. They'll also have the likes of Murphy, Hurley, probably Zebo and possibly Jones. Laulala will at the very least keep a young centre like Barnes out of the Pro12. He could even force Earls out onto the wing too. Surely that signing is a more damaging one to Irish talent?


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    #178
    roycon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭roycon


    .ak wrote: »
    Rocky Elsom? What an utter journeyman!

    nathan spooner perhaps


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    #179
    Mohammed Shapely Stationery
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Mohammed Shapely Stationery


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Professional Contracts Review Group. That is the name of the IRFU body that approves all these "ridiculous" signings.

    Goodman is there because Leinster are really light in the back line with the injuries and international absences. Should we suffer the wrong injury (Nacewa for example) we could be left in serious trouble. We'd have a back line that consists almost solely of inexperenced players. The most experienced back we'd have would be Carr. After that Madigan. And then a drop to the likes of Macken, Conway and Cooney. This signing is all but an absolute necessity. Given that he is being pushed as a utility back that says to me that he won't be in any one single spot and so not hampering any one single players development.

    I'd actually be more concerned with the Laulala signing myself. There's no shortage of experience in the Munster back line even with the internationals away. They'll have Keatley, Downey and Howlett at the very least. They'll also have the likes of Murphy, Hurley, probably Zebo and possibly Jones. Laulala will at the very least keep a young centre like Barnes out of the Pro12. He could even force Earls out onto the wing too. Surely that signing is a more damaging one to Irish talent?

    Not damaging at all imo, there's plenty of 13s around the country waiting for their shot at BOD's Jersey.

    Munster needed some quality in the centre, and got some. Simple as.

    profitius point is pretty valid. We shouldn't really be signing squad players. It should be superstars or nothing. The academy is to be used to bulk a squad out. Unfortunately we've just been that little bit unlucky with injuries (EOM and Fitz are the main ones) that means that even with the academy as backup we're a bit thin on the ground.

    I'd agree with him if either of EOM or Fitz weren't injured. But they are, so I'm pretty happy to see a stop-gap covering player being signed. It's effectively an injury-cover player, along the lines of Thorn, except we're covering the second string instead of the first.


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    #180
    Mohammed Shapely Stationery
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Mohammed Shapely Stationery


    roycon wrote: »
    nathan spooner perhaps

    An absolute hero. Himself and Warner were gas.

    Different days!


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    #181
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    totallegend wrote: »
    Now that was ridiculous. It was right up there with that other waster, the Aussie guy whose name escapes me.

    Tokula was a waste, but Chambers (the Aussie guy) was a good player. He was important cover to have in the HEC group games while Earls was injured. At 23 as well, he was worth having over, if he had wanted to stay I think he would have been kept.


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