Council vote on new Westside Tesco

GekkePrutser · 19-01-2012 1:45pm

celty wrote: »

While I take your point about competition being good (Ryanair did bring down Aer Lingus prices, even though I hate the buggers) it's the very way this is being brought about that makes me angry.

It's not proper planning for this site to be foised on the locals as a 'hypermarket' just because our City Councillors defied the officials and rezoned it for a former FF Mayor.

It's not proper planning for it to be built across the road from the Westside SC, where businesses are already struggling. I don't think the Westside Dunnes is any great shakes but if that w as to close down when the Tesco's opens there would be no net jobs gain and we'd be left with a big shell of unused units.

As for the 'mainland', could you let us know where that is. I thought we are on the 'mainland'

I don't agree with the way it's being done either (and especially not with the location). I just don't feel bad for Dunnes. I think they're too big already. Who knows, the empty units could be taken up by something completely different, that would add something to the area.

Sorry by mainland I mean mainland Europe. Perhaps that's not the right term to use.

Every time I go home to Holland and go shopping I'm surprised how low the bill is at the checkout. Same goes for Germany. I don't know about the UK because I never go there.

The top supermarkets there are cheaper than Aldi is here. There is just much more competition there and you really feel it in your wallet.

Mrs OBumble · 19-01-2012 2:35pm

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Sorry by mainland I mean mainland Europe. Perhaps that's not the right term to use.

It's a fine term to use ... just expect that a few people here are still in the last century and haven't quite caught up with the fact that Ireland is now in Europe.

Back on topic - I'm struggling to think of anything more appropriate sort of building for a busy road like SQR - it's hardly suitable for housing or playgrounds or hopsitals, or anything else that needs quiet.

And what is wrong with having a supermarket within walking distance of houses, rather than absolutely everyone having to drive there. I live 100 metres from a supermarket, and think it's a fantastic place to be.

FWIW, I'm not totally sold on this proposal, but I don't agree with many of the things being said about it.

Does anyone know if the land is contaminated in any way? Furniture manufacturing must use glues and varnishes and the like.

galwaycyclist · 19-01-2012 3:01pm

JustMary wrote: »

It's a fine term to use ... just expect that a few people here are still in the last century and haven't quite caught up with the fact that Ireland is now in Europe.

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

antoobrien · 19-01-2012 3:18pm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

Interesting point, if a bit OT, especially when you consider that GTI, Marys, the Jes & The Bish are within about 800m of each other (as the crow flys). The distances for the Mercy, Pres & Taylors Hill won't bee too much greater either. Only Enda's & Salerno seem to be well separated from the others.*

*the point is totally ignoring the grinds schools as not being relevant, if you can pay that much I don't care where you're sending your kids.

Of course, the possibility of moving/ building new schools brings up the question of suitable sites (e.g. wouldn't want to see a school in a retail park or industrial estate like Briarhill had to do when they were refurbishing).
I wonder if there are any plans for the Corrib Great Southern hotel site, it could be a good a site for a new school (right opposite the new cop shop if it ever gets built).

Worth a thread of its own perhaps (so as not to draw this thread o.t.)?

Jack_Plumber · 19-01-2012 4:29pm

Its wrong to say that RGData are using the term hypermarket in a incorrect way.

The definition from the Dept of the Environment is that a hypermarket: a ‘single level, self-service stores selling both food and a range of comparison goods, with net sales floor space in excess of 5,000 square metres.’

The proposed development exceeds the definition of a hypermarket.

antoobrien wrote: »

The hypermarket label was brought up by RGDATA to make this look overly large, when it isn't. It's a multi storey building that will probably take up less space than footprint of the existing factory - 65*130=8450 sq meters for what looks like a single storey building vs the proposed multi storey of approx 8,510 sq meters.

For a rough (but not fair) comparison imagine what GSC would be like if it were multi storey instead of across several buildings that have become linked together over time (GSC is well over 10,000 sq meters footprint).

Also I'm going to point out that Hypermarket doesn't refer to size, but essentially a one stop shop, which Dunnes Terryland has had pretensions of being for over 20 years - so the concept isn't exactly alien to Galway, even if the term hasn't been used here before.

Jack_Plumber · 19-01-2012 4:38pm

With respect, crossing the river these days is not done in a paddle boat! You drive half a mile and you're across the river. Of course, there are times when you're not moving very fast... and this is proabably when galwaycyclist whizzes by!

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

antoobrien · 19-01-2012 4:42pm

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Its wrong to say that RGData are using the term hypermarket in a incorrect way.

I didn't say that they were using it incorrectly, I was commenting on:
a) the reaction that the work hypermarket draws "this will be massive" vs the reality - it's not all that big.
b) RGData have a vested interest in seeing this fail and will have used the term knowing the perceived negative connotations the word.

Besides, Tesco Extra is described as a hypermarket - several of which are multi storey

Jack_Plumber · 19-01-2012 4:59pm

The gross floor area 8,510 square metres (91,600 sq feet): that's big! If you don't think it big, then you must be well use to your space!

According to a recent BBC article, the average Irish home is 88 square metres (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8201900.stm). I will grant you that this figure is low and likely reflects the amount apartments sold in recent times. On this basis, the floor space of this hypermarket is equivalent to almost 97 homes.

antoobrien wrote: »

I didn't say that they were using it incorrectly, I was commenting on:
a) the reaction that the work hypermarket draws "this will be massive" vs the reality - it's not all that big.
b) RGData have a vested interest in seeing this fail and will have used the term knowing the perceived negative connotations the word.

Besides, Tesco Extra is described as a hypermarket - several of which are multi storey

antoobrien · 19-01-2012 5:13pm

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

The gross floor area 8,510 square metres (91,600 sq feet): that's big! If you don't think it big, then you must be well use to your space!

I'm going to refer you back to my original post to answer that:

antoobrien wrote: »

The hypermarket label was brought up by RGDATA to make this look overly large, when it isn't. It's a multi storey building that will probably take up less space than footprint of the existing factory - 65*130=8450 sq meters for what looks like a single storey building vs the proposed multi storey of approx 8,510 sq meters.

So the new building will be a 2/3 story building, so the floorspace will be spilt over the multiple levels. So it seems to me that the proposed building will have a smaller footprint that the existing factory.

But to put it in some kind of context for you, I work in an office building that's approx 40m x 40m. However since it's a 4 level building, the total usable available space is over 6,000 sq meters (taking lifts, stairs exits into consideration) instead of just 1,600 sq meters.

So no I don't think that's it's particularly big.

disgruntled resident · 19-01-2012 5:25pm

There are many issues with this development (being a resident of the area myself I cant but see them!)

for example.... the proposed build height is 153 feet...a monster compared to everything else we have in the area. coupled with this there are two proposed entrances onto the rahoon rd which is about as wide as your average country boithrin, they also plan to have a loading ramp at this side about 50 metres from the row of houses adjacent (in use 24/7). these artic juggernauts make a hell of a lot of noise ill tell you first hand. their plan to reduce the noise levels? a row of shrubs!

on the plus side itll generate (they claim) 250 jobs.

another suggested plus of the development is...in Micheal o hUiginn's words

“A development of this scale will revitalize the area and bring new life to the west side of the city, which has tended to stagnate in recent times. I think that having such a development will put pressure on other local companies to upgrade their businesses and it will be a great asset to the area,”

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

antoobrien · 19-01-2012 5:38pm

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

The same was said about Ikea opening up in Ballymun, but the effect has been the opposite - other smaller retailers have flourished with more "traffic" (excuse the phrase) around.

Ollie Hester · 19-01-2012 5:44pm

The widening of the Seamus Quirke road has cost St. Michaels football club its pitch & the council aren't interested in replacing it. The Westside area is being treated with contempt by the Council. Nothing surprises me now...

_Whimsical_ · 19-01-2012 6:30pm

antoobrien wrote: »

The same was said about Ikea opening up in Ballymun, but the effect has been the opposite - other smaller retailers have flourished with more "traffic" (excuse the phrase) around.

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

galwayrush · 19-01-2012 6:47pm

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

Grand if the people who would be willing to build the park and little cafe would pay the owner of the private site a higher price than Tesco are offering.

galwaycyclist · 19-01-2012 7:10pm

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

With regret, while the protection of small retailers against predatory large-multiple stores is a laudable aim, you are not going to win that battle within the context of a planning application in Galway city.

Thats a national issue and will require national interventions such as

1) The reinstatement of the groceries order and a ban on below cost selling
2) Strict national limits on store size, type and location
3) A levy on car parking spaces at out of town shopping centres (and possibly all shopping centres) - so as to level the playing pitch for town-centre businesses.

We lost those battles years ago (I know I was involved at the time). Our current minister for the environment proposes further liberalisation of the market.

Under the current regime we are going to have large multiples running "hyper market-type" operations. That issue in my opinion is outside our local capacity to influence. If we are to have such operations, the question becomes how do we locate and constrain them so as to minimise adverse impacts and maximise positive impacts?

_Whimsical_ · 19-01-2012 7:18pm

Does anyone know if the council would accept an online petition opposed to the development for consideration when they're accepting submissions in the next week or two?

If we set one up we could all have a say and it would be easier for us all than sending individual objections. If there is a cost for submission of it I'd be willing to fund it..l think it's just 20 euro. Does anyone agree it would be a good idea or know if it would be accepted?

It would be easy enough to pimp on Facebook and we could potentially get quite a few people to sign.

EDIT: my reading of the planning objection/submission is that you cannot make an electronic submission,it has to be in writing. Anyone know if signatures got online and printed would circumvent this?

snubbleste · 19-01-2012 7:47pm

Would it be fair to say that this thread is 50/50 split opinion? It needs a poll.

As indicated earlier, I'm in favour of a big retail grocery development at the location. Look how successful the area on the Headford Rd is, surely that scenario can be replicated on the western side of town, particularly with the road being improved.

_Whimsical_ · 19-01-2012 8:13pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that this thread is 50/50 split opinion? It needs a poll.

As indicated earlier, I'm in favour of a big retail grocery development at the location. Look how successful the area on the Headford Rd is, surely that scenario can be replicated on the western side of town, particularly with the road being improved.

My reading is not that it's 50/50 at all. I think the thread is much more heavily weighted in opposition to the proposal.

inisboffin · 19-01-2012 8:19pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Does anyone know if the council would accept an online petition opposed to the development for consideration when they're accepting submissions in the next week or two?

If we set one up we could all have a say and it would be easier for us all than sending individual objections. If there is a cost for submission of it I'd be willing to fund it..l think it's just 20 euro. Does anyone agree it would be a good idea or know if it would be accepted?

It would be easy enough to pimp on Facebook and we could potentially get quite a few people to sign.

EDIT: my reading of the planning objection/submission is that you cannot make an electronic submission,it has to be in writing. Anyone know if signatures got online and printed would circumvent this?

There are sites like ipetitions.com or http://www.thepetitionsite.com/
Not sure how acceptable they are though?

thesandeman · 20-01-2012 2:51am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

In the Headford Road SC the butcher is doing well afaik. A new off licence opened up in the last few years as did a fish shop which has since expanded. The newsagents has been going strong for years. A new cake shop opened up. In fact almost every store involved with food in the Tesco complex seems to be doing ok.
The only thing I would worry about is the traffic. I would take an uneducated guess that there is a 'little something' waiting to be used to placate the local residents for the disturbance if they turn out to be the only stumbling block.

antoobrien · 20-01-2012 10:16am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

Ikea don't just sell furniture though, so your comparison isn't nearly as accurate as you'd like. There are several small hardware and furniture stores, as well as fabrics shops, restaurants etc that have flourished in the area.

Besides to give an example in Galway - Dunnes & Lidl haven't put the three shops Doughiska & Roscam, or the one in Ballybrit/Parkmore out of business.

Mrs OBumble · 20-01-2012 2:16pm

galwayrush wrote: »

Grand if the people who would be willing to build the park and little cafe would pay the owner of the private site a higher price than Tesco are offering.

Seems to me that there are already quite a few parks in the area:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214062428912677824250.0004b6f5856e8780a2fb9&msa=0&ll=53.274401,-9.077357&spn=0.005319,0.009581

And no way would a cafe be successful there was not something like a supermarket to draw people to the area.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with delivery access via Rahoon Rd.

But if that can be sorted, though, I'd be in favour: that part of Shantalla is run-down and it looks unsightly / dodgy. The site is large - by eye, I'd say it's twice the size of Westside Dunnes - and currently wasted.

And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

Oh - and you cannot gauge support from posts here, people in favour are less likely to buck the trend and say so.

inisboffin · 20-01-2012 2:22pm

JustMary wrote: »

And no way would a cafe be successful there was not something like a supermarket to draw people to the area.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with delivery access via Rahoon Rd.

And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

I'd say delivery for a furniture factory wasn't as frequent though, and I'd assume not 24/7?

what_traffic · 20-01-2012 2:42pm

JustMary wrote: »

The site is large - by eye, I'd say it's twice the size of Westside Dunnes - and currently wasted.
.
..
...
And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

Oh - and you cannot gauge support from posts here, people in favour are less likely to buck the trend and say so.

A few corrections.
It has not been a furniture factory for a decade or more now. The past number of years it has been a Warehouse for Higgin's timber products.

It is not larger area than Westside shopping center - see: http://gis.galwaycity.ie/proweb_mapviewer/ It is a smaller site - but the current warehouse building is larger than the Westside shopping center

Jack_Plumber · 20-01-2012 4:08pm

The proposal is at planning stage and the only way to have an influence is to put in a planning objection to it stating the file number 11/312. It will cost €20.
If you do decide on this course of action, then your submission should go in 2 or 3 days before the final date (Feb. 2nd). If there are too many objections, the applicant can withdraw the application: you're down €20 and have no recourse once the revised plan is submitted.
Kinda sucks really!

inisboffin wrote: »

There are sites like ipetitions.com or http://www.thepetitionsite.com/
Not sure how acceptable they are though?

jassha · 26-01-2012 10:51pm

Just read through this thread. Must research and get more info but if they get the parking and the access right i think its a great thing. Dunnes in Knocknacarra is a parking nightmare when busy. Would love to see Tesco in westside.

factual lies · 27-01-2012 7:08am

The main issue I have is that the delivery bays will be facing houses beside the proposed site and with tescos delivery bays opening before 5am every morning, these people will have an awful hard time sleeping (it will be around the clock if the store goes to 24hr opening times).

Also, just of note, The site hasn't produced furniture since the early 90's (1992 IIRC)when a large size portion of shantalla residence (myself included) lost their jobs.

Little My · 27-01-2012 10:42am

jassha wrote: »

J... Dunnes in Knocknacarra is a parking nightmare when busy....

Off topic, forgive me, but people fannying around till they get a space on the outer park, or just pulling up wherever they fancy are the nightmare in that car park.

I always go to the underground car park because it is always empty, plus much easier to get pram & baby out of car when you have space beside you and not having to deal with weather.

Another point made much earlier about the amount of parks in the area - there aren't any as far as I know. Playing fields, yes, but no parks.

The disused land around Dunnes Knocknacarra would make a great nature trail type park.

Sponge Bob · 27-01-2012 10:57am

I always go underground too and leave the retards on the surface. You will get out quicker too.

fishy fishy · 27-01-2012 11:24am

did the owner of this premises block some apartments being built across from his private house lately because it wouldnt' be good for the area??? Is this true? has anyone heard this.

Jack_Plumber · 27-01-2012 12:11pm

TWO SUBMISSIONS TO RAHOON RETAIL DEVELOPMENT

January 26, 2012 - 4:28pm TWO SUBMISSIONS TO RAHOON RETAIL DEVELOPMENT

Two submissions have been lodged to plans for a controversial retail centre in Westside.
Micheál Ó' hUigínn has applied for planning permission to demolish the existing commercial premises at the Rahoon Road in Westside.
In its place, he hopes to build a supermarket selling both food and non-food products.

Source: http://www.galwaynews.ie/23956-two-submissions-rahoon-retail-development

Is this monkey business?

galwaycyclist wrote: »

With regret, while the protection of small retailers against predatory large-multiple stores is a laudable aim, you are not going to win that battle within the context of a planning application in Galway city.

Thats a national issue and will require national interventions such as

1) The reinstatement of the groceries order and a ban on below cost selling
2) Strict national limits on store size, type and location
3) A levy on car parking spaces at out of town shopping centres (and possibly all shopping centres) - so as to level the playing pitch for town-centre businesses.

We lost those battles years ago (I know I was involved at the time). Our current minister for the environment proposes further liberalisation of the market.

Under the current regime we are going to have large multiples running "hyper market-type" operations. That issue in my opinion is outside our local capacity to influence. If we are to have such operations, the question becomes how do we locate and constrain them so as to minimise adverse impacts and maximise positive impacts?

Mrs OBumble · 27-01-2012 2:43pm

Little My wrote: »

Another point made much earlier about the amount of parks in the area - there aren't any as far as I know. Playing fields, yes, but no parks.

The disused land around Dunnes Knocknacarra would make a great nature trail type park.

What does a "park" have in your eyes?

galwaycyclist · 27-01-2012 2:52pm

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Is this monkey business?

Not clear what you are asking? RGDATA and Irish Cycling Campaign among others took a strong line against the abolition of the groceries order in 2005

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1108/groceries.html

You can't get people to walk or cycle to shops that aren't there anymore.

2rkehij30qtza5 · 27-01-2012 3:41pm

WHY are people so opposed to it? Surely bringing more business into a predominantly disadvantaged area of Galway is a good thing? More employment during the construction of the project and more employment when it is operational?
Dunnes in Westside is a disgrace...they are poorly stocked and you have to go to Knocknacarra Dunnes if you want to make sure you'll actually be able to buy everything on your shopping list, because chances are Dunnes in Westside won't have it.
My cousin is a wheelchair user and she can NEVER get parking in Westside because of all the able bodied ignoramuses who park in the disabled spots.
I worked in Westside Dunnes as a student and I also worked in Joyces in Knocknacarra and I can safely say that the amount of robbing and thievery that went on in Dunnes Westside compared to Joyces was just shocking!!!!!!:eek: I could write books on what I witnessed in that place.
saying all that, a new shopping centre with a good Tesco and an opportunity for people to gain employment in the area is nothing but a good thing. Might improve the area no-end.

fishy fishy · 27-01-2012 5:00pm

can you explain what you mean by "predominantly disadvantaged" and how a large hypermarket on stilts will be advantageous to the people living directly in it's path (mostly elderly people who have lived in the area since the area was built - i.e. 50 - 70 years ago).

BhoscaCapall · 27-01-2012 7:18pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

can you explain what you mean by "predominantly disadvantaged"

Full of scumbags :pac:

nb: not saying everyone in Westside is, I live there too, but there are a lot of shady characters let's be honest.

and how a large hypermarket on stilts will be advantageous to the people living directly in it's path (mostly elderly people who have lived in the area since the area was built - i.e. 50 - 70 years ago).

Having a supermarket on your doorstep is quite advantageous...

They should just take-over the Dunnes that's there. Such a grim experience going in there..

Little My · 27-01-2012 9:48pm

JustMary wrote: »

What does a "park" have in your eyes?

A park (in the public park sense) is " a large area of land with grass and trees surrounded by fences or walls, which is specially arranged so that people can walk in it for pleasure or children can play in it".

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/park_1?q=park

So its landscaped grounds, trees, plants, flowers etc. A little bit of nature for people without gardens to enjoy. Somewhere nice to go for a walk or a picnic.

What parks in the area were you thinking of?

2rkehij30qtza5 · 27-01-2012 9:59pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

can you explain what you mean by "predominantly disadvantaged"

No problem Fishy Fish-I'll explain it to you. A disadvantaged area is classified under the following headings:
Dependency and unemployment,
Social Class and education
Vulnerable Groups
Resources

Under all of these categories, Galway City Council has named Westside and 4 other areas of Galway City as "disadvantaged". One such report identifying Westside as a disadvantaged area is Galway City Council's Rapid Strategic Plan. There are many other City Council and DoCHLG (and former DoEHLG) reports also naming Westside as a disadvantaged area. Almost all documents are in the public domain if you want verification on this.

and how a large hypermarket on stilts will be advantageous to the people living directly in it's path (mostly elderly people who have lived in the area since the area was built - i.e. 50 - 70 years ago).

I thought I had already stated the reasons that bringing commercial business to an area can be advantageous. Take Sandyford, Dublin 18 for example. It is the only area of Dublin where property has not dramatically decreased in value. This was on the RTE news last week.....it was said that the large amount of commercial and industrial units in the area (90% of which were built in latter years) ensured that Sandyford properties have not decreased on the same scale as any other area of Dublin. There is also a report from Daft.ie stating this from 2011.

So, in essence, bringing a large commercial
retailer to an area will bring money into the area, employment etc.

People, by their nature, tend to like living close to amenities. Hence you always see auctioneers' adverts for properties stating such things as "located within close proximity to x,y,z.....". It is likely that having a decent supermarket in close proximity would increase desire to buy/rent in the area, thus pushing up rents and house prices in the long term.

Obviously civil infrastructure would have to be in place before any such development could be considered (or at least should be conditional on planning).

But all in all, I think it could improve the area greatly and perhaps even shake up Dunnes in Westside to give the place there a face lift too!

Hope that helped clear it up for you Fishy Fish.

Tom Harward · 27-01-2012 10:04pm

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

TWO SUBMISSIONS TO RAHOON RETAIL DEVELOPMENT

January 26, 2012 - 4:28pm TWO SUBMISSIONS TO RAHOON RETAIL DEVELOPMENT

Two submissions have been lodged to plans for a controversial retail centre in Westside.
Micheál Ó' hUigínn has applied for planning permission to demolish the existing commercial premises at the Rahoon Road in Westside.
In its place, he hopes to build a supermarket selling both food and non-food products.

Source: http://www.galwaynews.ie/23956-two-submissions-rahoon-retail-development

Is this monkey business?

thats right

inisboffin · 27-01-2012 11:06pm

Wait, before this escalates into another area discussion (remember the great boards dunnes knocknacarra/rahoon war of 1872?

), is this proposed Tesco going in an area known as Westside, Rahoon, or Shantalla. I believe a lot of residents who are objecting are from Highfield. Surely this isn't considered a 'disadvantaged' area?

Serious question btw.

_Whimsical_ · 28-01-2012 3:18am

inisboffin wrote: »

Wait, before this escalates into another area discussion (remember the great boards dunnes knocknacarra/rahoon war of 1872? ), is this proposed Tesco going in an area known as Westside, Rahoon, or Shantalla. I believe a lot of residents who are objecting are from Highfield. Surely this isn't considered a 'disadvantaged' area?

Serious question btw.

Highfield is definitely not a disadvantaged area. Intact they won an award for best quality of life in a housing estate award last year, it was judged on air quality and upkeep of homes and green spaces among other criteria I believe. The people of Highfield and Rahoon road will see the greatest negative impact of the development.

Westside is a term that seems to encompass everywhere from shantalla to knocknacarra depending upon the context it's used in. When it's used to describe deprived areas I think it's mostly intended to refer to Rahoon. How and ever it isn't really important as in this instance the new tesco is not expected to create employment but to displace it from other supermarkets in the area and smaller shops.

One point I haven't seen addressed is that of funerals. Imagine traffic on evenings and mornings when there is one going to Rahoon cemetery.

gordongekko · 28-01-2012 9:41am

[QUOTE=_Whimsical_;76770378 I think it's mostly intended to refer to Rahoon. How and ever it isn't really important as in this instance the new tesco is not expected to create employment but to displace it from other supermarkets in the area and smaller shops.[/QUOTE]

Proof please

2rkehij30qtza5 · 28-01-2012 10:11am

inisboffin wrote: »

Wait, before this escalates into another area discussion (remember the great boards dunnes knocknacarra/rahoon war of 1872? ), is this proposed Tesco going in an area known as Westside, Rahoon, or Shantalla. I believe a lot of residents who are objecting are from Highfield. Surely this isn't considered a 'disadvantaged' area?

Serious question btw.

It is proposed to have access onto BIshop O'Donnell Road, the section of which is in Westside.

And no Highfield Pk is not a disadvantaged estate. But Westside IS a disadvantaged area. Highfield would not technically (I think, don't have a townland map to hand) be in Westside. I am referring to the Westside area as being categorised as disadvantaged. That said not everyone who lives there is disadvantaged. But Westside is disadvantaged. And the fact that the proposed access and egress is to be onto Bishop O'D Rd will mean that this development will be in Westside!

Edited to add: I have checked out Galway City Council's designated zones. O'Huigin's site is indeed in Westside. Highfield is not. Therefore, under the zoning, the development will be in Westside and is also in the 'disadvantaged' zone, as highlighted in the Strategic plan I mentioned on a previous post (page 33 of this Galway City Co.plan). IMO bringing business to an area like this is beneficial for all reasons previously stated.

inisboffin · 28-01-2012 3:00pm

Maverick Kind Teapot wrote: »

It is proposed to have access onto BIshop O'Donnell Road, the section of which is in Westside.

And no Highfield Pk is not a disadvantaged estate. But Westside IS a disadvantaged area. Highfield would not technically (I think, don't have a townland map to hand) be in Westside. I am referring to the Westside area as being categorised as disadvantaged. That said not everyone who lives there is disadvantaged. But Westside is disadvantaged. And the fact that the proposed access and egress is to be onto Bishop O'D Rd will mean that this development will be in Westside!

Edited to add: I have checked out Galway City Council's designated zones. O'Huigin's site is indeed in Westside. Highfield is not. Therefore, under the zoning, the development will be in Westside and is also in the 'disadvantaged' zone, as highlighted in the Strategic plan I mentioned on a previous post (page 33 of this Galway City Co.plan). IMO bringing business to an area like this is beneficial for all reasons previously stated.

Thanks for quoting that reference (between Irish Times, Galway News and various other mentions, including on here, it has been called Rahoon, Shantalla and Westside depending who wrote the article!). Is it not fronting the Seamus Quirke Rd, not the BOD road though?

Mrs OBumble · 28-01-2012 3:24pm

Little My wrote: »

A park (in the public park sense) is " a large area of land with grass and trees surrounded by fences or walls, which is specially arranged so that people can walk in it for pleasure or children can play in it".

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/park_1?q=park

So its landscaped grounds, trees, plants, flowers etc. A little bit of nature for people without gardens to enjoy. Somewhere nice to go for a walk or a picnic.

What parks in the area were you thinking of?

Basically a bushing spot, so. We need more of them :rolleyes:

There are large public recreation areas in Dangan and Cappagh Park. There's a small park-like spot down in Shantalla by Sliding Rock. There's a big open green up in Highfields, by Cedarwood Close - it's even got at least one seat in it (I just saw it on StreetView!) - and it's a lot more restful than this site would be, 'cos it doesn't have a four lane dual carriageway thundering past it. There's a large bit of green wasteland between the current O'Higgins shop and David Rd - it's not a park, but could be turned into one (albiet with the same safety issues as the factory site, due to lack of houses overlooking it). If you look at the satellite view of the map link I provided earlier, you'll see lots and lots of bits of greenery with park-potential.

Re the debate about Shantalla / Highfield / Rahoon / Westside: seems to me that this site is part of the boundary between them. It's got a long precedent of industrial use, and has provided employment for a lot of people in the past. No reason why it shouldn't continue doing so.

Little My · 28-01-2012 4:49pm

JustMary wrote: »

There are large public recreation areas in Dangan and Cappagh Park. There's a small park-like spot down in Shantalla by Sliding Rock. There's a big open green up in Highfields, by Cedarwood Close - it's even got at least one seat in it (I just saw it on StreetView!) - and it's a lot more restful than this site would be, 'cos it doesn't have a four lane dual carriageway thundering past it. There's a large bit of green wasteland between the current O'Higgins shop and David Rd - it's not a park, but could be turned into one (albiet with the same safety issues as the factory site, due to lack of houses overlooking it). If you look at the satellite view of the map link I provided earlier, you'll see lots and lots of bits of greenery with park-potential.

No, we don't need more bushing spots, (this is a completely different issue) but I think we could do with some parks.

There are no parks in Dangan as far as I am aware. Cappagh park isn't nearby.

Sliding rock is a playground with some grass beside it.

A big open green in a housing estate is not a park.

I never said the Rahoon site would be a good place for a park, only said there aren't actually any parks nearby.

I agree that a lot of places have potential to be turned into parks.

_Whimsical_ · 28-01-2012 5:11pm

gordongekko wrote: »

Proof please

Its the opinion of the city manager and city director of services that this development is not justified by of population considering the proximity of so many other shopping facilities. RGData are of the opinion that it has the potential to "hoover up business within a 20km radius".

Anyone who thinks that the Westside of the city can support yet another shopping centre and that it won't result in loss of custom to other such centres in the locality, particularly in the current climate, has a wonderful imagination. Clearly they see an uncharacteristically lucrative time ahead for the inhabitants of the west side of the city that is out of keeping with a countrywide economic trend or they're envisaging the population of the area dramatically increase. Neither look like realities in the forseeable future, not only in Galway but anywhere in Ireland.

Sponge Bob · 28-01-2012 6:09pm

Meanwhile it seems the former owners of the giant hole beside Dunnes in Knocknacarra are being taken to court by the Corpo for not filling it in when they were told to.

http://www.moritz.ie/commercial/development.asp?id=21&cat=5

The overall site will include a retail town centre, a new civic area, a high quality residential scheme, a hotel, medical centre, and leisure facilities. The first phase, which opened in Summer 2007 includes a new 70,000 sq ft Dunnes Stores and the first B&Q store in Galway. The second phase is now well underway with further retail completions due in Spring 2008.

It is a hole, not a phase. Fill it in with a Tesco willye.

gordongekko · 28-01-2012 6:46pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Its the opinion of the city manager and city director of services that this development is not justified by of population considering the proximity of so many other shopping facilities. RGData are of the opinion that it has the potential to "hoover up business within a 20km radius".

Anyone who thinks that the Westside of the city can support yet another shopping centre and that it won't result in loss of custom to other such centres in the locality, particularly in the current climate, has a wonderful imagination. Clearly they see an uncharacteristically lucrative time ahead for the inhabitants of the west side of the city that is out of keeping with a countrywide economic trend or they're envisaging the population of the area dramatically increase. Neither look like realities in the forseeable future, not only in Galway but anywhere in Ireland.

no no what you said as it wont create employment. where is the proof of this? im neither pro nor against this development but i find it hard to believe no jobs will be created by the opening of this retail park. Can you link me the proof that no jobs will be gained.

ladhrann · 28-01-2012 7:44pm

gordongekko wrote: »

no no what you said as it wont create employment. where is the proof of this? im neither pro nor against this development but i find it hard to believe no jobs will be created by the opening of this retail park. Can you link me the proof that no jobs will be gained.

The point I believe is that large mall-style developments such as this will on average cause a net loss of jobs in a given area. Not only would smaller businesses tend to shut, but all the suppliers and ancillary services such as accountants, cleaners, lawyers etc. that were employed by those businesses will be under threat.

I'm not aware of a specific study on this project. But there have comparable studies in the U.K. One notable example has been the virtual disappearance of the butcher and grocer from English life in ciites for example.

Council vote on new Westside Tesco

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