Council vote on new Westside Tesco

fishy fishy · 28-01-2012 11:02pm

this has nothing to do with how good it will be for the area. This has everything to do with the council taking care of one of it's own! and to hell with the people having to live with it. :rolleyes:

gordongekko · 28-01-2012 11:18pm

ladhrann wrote: »

The point I believe is that large mall-style developments such as this will on average cause a net loss of jobs in a given area. Not only would smaller businesses tend to shut, but all the suppliers and ancillary services such as accountants, cleaners, lawyers etc. that were employed by those businesses will be under threat.

I'm not aware of a specific study on this project. But there have comparable studies in the U.K. One notable example has been the virtual disappearance of the butcher and grocer from English life in ciites for example.

I only see net gains around galway. Aldi westside opened and Dunnes did not close. Most of the other shops in the retail parks are all open. Joyces stayed open when Dunnes moved near them and most of the other shops in the area have remained open plus you have b and q new look etc. Tescos extra opened in newcastle the Londis has stayed open and so have most of the other shops in the area. Dunnes opened in briarhill Tescos in Oranmore yet Super Valu have stayed open. All i can see around Galway from these types of parks is a net gain of jobs. If this park creates jobs them i dont see any particular problem with it.

_Whimsical_ · 28-01-2012 11:45pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think it's mostly intended to refer to Rahoon. How and ever it isn't really important as in this instance the new tesco is not expected to create employment but to displace it from other supermarkets in the area and smaller shops.

gordongekko wrote: »

Proof please

gordongekko wrote: »

no no what you said as it wont create employment. where is the proof of this? im neither pro nor against this development but i find it hard to believe no jobs will be created by the opening of this retail park. Can you link me the proof that no jobs will be gained.

I actually said its not EXPECTED to create employment and said I based that on my own assessment of the facts from my experience, the opinion of the city manager, city director of services and the opinion of RGData on the subject.

Unfortunately I do not have a crystal ball to show you or a delorean with time travel capabilities so I can't actually go to the future to find you actual "proof". However I think it's a fair deducement based upon the experience and knowledge of those working in the area and also on an assessment of the facts. No one can offer more than an opinion on the reprecussions of events that have not happened yet. If you want to google or read through past articles in the Galway Advertiser, City Tribune or online at galwaynews.ie you'll see that those views have been advanced by the people I mentioned.

ladhrann · 29-01-2012 12:08am

gordongekko wrote: »

I only see net gains around galway. Aldi westside opened and Dunnes did not close. Most of the other shops in the retail parks are all open. Joyces stayed open when Dunnes moved near them and most of the other shops in the area have remained open plus you have b and q new look etc. Tescos extra opened in newcastle the Londis has stayed open and so have most of the other shops in the area. Dunnes opened in briarhill Tescos in Oranmore yet Super Valu have stayed open. All i can see around Galway from these types of parks is a net gain of jobs. If this park creates jobs them i dont see any particular problem with it.

The point would be that these are subjective effects. It would need a proper statistical survey of employment in order to prove a net gain or loss of jobs due to these centres.

However unless the entire architecture of Galway (and indeed the country) is to based entirely on windowless warehouses in industrial estates and to be frank rather bleak and poorly built carparks pretending to be 'district/village centres' (i.e. Dunnes Westside, Kocknacarra, Headford Rd.) between overcrowded motorways then this must be fought.

As I mentioned earlier I will make an objection of my own. If I cannot make people realise the massive cost to society as a whole and the built environment and quality of life of these projects then I will try to make it less bad, less of an eyesore, less of a liability.

_Whimsical_ · 29-01-2012 12:12am

ladhrann wrote: »

The point would be that these are subjective effects. It would need a proper statistical survey of employment in order to prove a net gain or loss of jobs due to these centres.

However unless the entire architecture of Galway (and indeed the country) is to based entirely on windowless warehouses in industrial estates and to be frank rather bleak and poorly built carparks pretending to be 'district/village centres' (i.e. Dunnes Westside, Kocknacarra, Headford Rd.) between overcrowded motorways then this must be fought.

As I mentioned earlier I will make an objection of my own. If I cannot make people realise the massive cost to society as a whole and the built environment and quality of life of these projects then I will try to make it less bad, less of an eyesore, less of a liability.

I made an objection too. I'm willing to spend the 20 euro on it because I think its important.

gordongekko · 29-01-2012 12:25am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

. How and ever it isn't really important as in this instance the new tesco is not expected to create employment but to displace it from other supermarkets in the area and smaller shops.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I actually said its not EXPECTED to create employment and said I based that on my own assessment of the facts from my experience, the opinion of the city manager, city director of services and the opinion of RGData on the subject.

Unfortunately I do not have a crystal ball to show you or a delorean with time travel capabilities so I can't actually go to the future to find you actual "proof". However I think it's a fair deducement based upon the experience and knowledge of those working in the area and also on an assessment of the facts. No one can offer more than an opinion on the reprecussions of events that have not happened yet. If you want to google or read through past articles in the Galway Advertiser, City Tribune or online at galwaynews.ie you'll see that those views have been advanced by the people I mentioned.

You said it is going to displace it from other supermarkets in the area. This does not tally with my experience around Galway. All these retail parks appear to have created jobs not displaced jobs from one to another. Can you please back it up from your experiences around Galway. The last supermarket i can remember closing down in Galway was Roches and that was quickly replaced by M&S. Kumarket was replaced by Supervalu before that it might have been H Williams and that was replaced by Dunnes. Where are all these displaced jobs around the town that you talk of??

_Whimsical_ · 29-01-2012 1:33am

gordongekko wrote: »

You said it is going to displace it from other supermarkets in the area. This does not tally with my experience around Galway. All these retail parks appear to have created jobs not displaced jobs from one to another. Can you please back it up from your experiences around Galway. The last supermarket i can remember closing down in Galway was Roches and that was quickly replaced by M&S. Kumarket was replaced by Supervalu before that it might have been H Williams and that was replaced by Dunnes. Where are all these displaced jobs around the town that you talk of??

No I said EXPECTED too. Read back.

Most of those opened during the Celtic Tiger when population in Galway was expanding not decreasing and individual wealth was increasing too. Now we are living in a dramatically different financial climate and our population is not expanding. Also the instances you've cited there are all occasions where a supermarket closed and another reopenned. That would be recycling/displacement of jobs. They aren't examples where entirely new markets sprung up.
In the case of M&S I think they did also bring something new to the retail market in Galway, we needed a bit more diversity and they have nicer more specialist foods so I think they'd have done well anywhere in Galway.

Here there's a balance to be struck between benefit and disadvantagous affects for adjacent residents and also users of the SQR too. There just doesn't seem to be evidence that we can expect the positive effects to outweigh the negative ones here.

thesandeman · 29-01-2012 1:56am

There was nothing on the Headford Road before Quinnsworth (now Tesco) opened. That was followed by Dunnes, Lidl and Aldi. As I said earlier all the other tenants in The Shopping Centre who do food seem to be either thriving or expanding and new food retailers are still entering there.

yer man! · 29-01-2012 3:54am

When I first heard about this development I was more or less opposed to it's construction but from what I've seen from these types developments around the country I now think that it could be beneficial to the surrounding area. A lot of people from this area already shop in Tesco headford road which is making a LOT of money, so by putting a tesco here you're essentially reducing travel distance and releiving the other one. It could have the effect of bringing in more developments, more business, more people into the area. This could improve some of the smaller roads around the place and make it a more attractive place to live, it could actually give bus eireann a kick in the backside and realise that they could possibly make money by improving transport in the area with the influx of people. It would open the place up. Many people were against the tesco in oranmore, I live here and I wasn't so sure of it myself but now i'm quite happy with it. Supervalu still thrives in the town as now they are way more competitive than they used to be so they get a lot of business. Tesco in Oranmore will bring with it more development around it like open squares for the current market in oranmore, new access roads to relieve other parts of the town, it will attract more shops upon completion (if that happens). Ultimately it will entice more people to come into the area and spend money. I think Tesco would be a good asset to the area, don't forget an awful lot of people from knocknacarra shop in a Tesco somewhere else in Galway anyway, this development is just making it a whole lot easier for them and having a knock on positive effect for majority of the locals.

gordongekko · 29-01-2012 10:01am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

No I said EXPECTED too. Read back.

read back i asked for a link to the proof of this

factual lies · 30-01-2012 7:01am

Just on the naming of the area, there is actual nowhere officially called "Westside". This was just a name given to the land which lays westof the corrib. Going on the old land markings the new Tesco site is in Shantalla, the opposite side of the seamus quirke road is Newcastle and Highfield is actually part of rahoon. I have no links to these maps, just really old maps that my father has that date back to 1900's.

fishy fishy · 30-01-2012 12:21pm

Maverick Kind Teapot wrote: »

No problem Fishy Fish-I'll explain it to you. A disadvantaged area is classified under the following headings:
Dependency and unemployment,
Social Class and education
Vulnerable Groups
Resources

Under all of these categories, Galway City Council has named Westside and 4 other areas of Galway City as "disadvantaged". One such report identifying Westside as a disadvantaged area is Galway City Council's Rapid Strategic Plan. There are many other City Council and DoCHLG (and former DoEHLG) reports also naming Westside as a disadvantaged area. Almost all documents are in the public domain if you want verification on this.

I thought I had already stated the reasons that bringing commercial business to an area can be advantageous. Take Sandyford, Dublin 18 for example. It is the only area of Dublin where property has not dramatically decreased in value. This was on the RTE news last week.....it was said that the large amount of commercial and industrial units in the area (90% of which were built in latter years) ensured that Sandyford properties have not decreased on the same scale as any other area of Dublin. There is also a report from Daft.ie stating this from 2011.

So, in essence, bringing a large commercial
retailer to an area will bring money into the area, employment etc.

People, by their nature, tend to like living close to amenities. Hence you always see auctioneers' adverts for properties stating such things as "located within close proximity to x,y,z.....". It is likely that having a decent supermarket in close proximity would increase desire to buy/rent in the area, thus pushing up rents and house prices in the long term.

Obviously civil infrastructure would have to be in place before any such development could be considered (or at least should be conditional on planning).

But all in all, I think it could improve the area greatly and perhaps even shake up Dunnes in Westside to give the place there a face lift too!

Hope that helped clear it up for you Fishy Fish.

I'm sorry Girlee, but your posts are very confusing - you either don't know anything about the "Westside" or else you don't know anything about where they want to put the Tesco.

Can I ask - what are do you refer to when you speak of the "Westside". How can you say that it is a disadvantaged area? Do you know that the Westside of the town is anything one the West side of the bridge, and The East side would be anything on the other side of the bridge.

If you are talking about specific pockets on the West side of town, (every area has them, not exclusive to the West Side might I add) it doesn't bode with your opinion on the Tesco. Do you actually know the plans for the tesco and where it is built - are you saying the people of Maunsells, Highfield, Shantalla, are the "disadvantaged" areas of the Westside.

I think maybe you should find out about the "westside" or find out about the plans for tesco before you slate one half of the town. Don't you? - hope that clarifies that for you girlee.

fishy fishy · 30-01-2012 12:41pm

Maverick Kind Teapot wrote: »

It is proposed to have access onto BIshop O'Donnell Road, the section of which is in Westside.

And no Highfield Pk is not a disadvantaged estate. But Westside IS a disadvantaged area. Highfield would not technically (I think, don't have a townland map to hand) be in Westside. I am referring to the Westside area as being categorised as disadvantaged. That said not everyone who lives there is disadvantaged. But Westside is disadvantaged. And the fact that the proposed access and egress is to be onto Bishop O'D Rd will mean that this development will be in Westside!

Edited to add: I have checked out Galway City Council's designated zones. O'Huigin's site is indeed in Westside. Highfield is not. Therefore, under the zoning, the development will be in Westside and is also in the 'disadvantaged' zone, as highlighted in the Strategic plan I mentioned on a previous post (page 33 of this Galway City Co.plan). IMO bringing business to an area like this is beneficial for all reasons previously stated.

as I thought, you don't really understand the plans? Take a walk up to the site and see for yourself exactly where it is located. You might be able to get a picture of what is going on, instead of depending on looking at it on paper.

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 1:16pm

I'd like to see a proper mall there instead of another supermarket, there are two of them in very close proximity already, a third is really not needed. Set up a load of small to medium sized retail units there, restaurants, maybe a gym or something. Anything but another supermarket tbh. Offices even.

Oh and the westside may be listed as disadvantaged, but as far as I'm aware they get EU assistance for areas listed as such, so take that any way you like.

Mrs OBumble · 30-01-2012 2:24pm

gordongekko wrote: »

no no what you said as it wont create employment. where is the proof of this? im neither pro nor against this development but i find it hard to believe no jobs will be created by the opening of this retail park. Can you link me the proof that no jobs will be gained.

At very least, there will be jobs building the damn thing. (no matter what gets built).

Mrs OBumble · 30-01-2012 2:30pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

... Do you know that the Westside of the town is anything one the West side of the bridge, and The East side would be anything on the other side of the bridge.

If you are talking about specific pockets on the West side of town, (every area has them, not exclusive to the West Side might I add) it doesn't bode with your opinion on the Tesco. Do you actually know the plans for the tesco and where it is built - are you saying the people of Maunsells, Highfield, Shantalla, are the "disadvantaged" areas of the Westside.

I think maybe you should find out about the "westside" or find out about the plans for tesco before you slate one half of the town. Don't you? - hope that clarifies that for you girlee.

fishy, what area do you believe that Corrib Park, Inishhannagh Park, Gaelcarraig Park, John Coogan Park - and Siobhan McKenna Rd itself - are in?

Hint: maybe you can use google to find some of the older thread explaining the difference between

the west side of the city
Westside
The West

snubbleste · 30-01-2012 2:36pm

Also:
Galway West
Tesco galway(west)
Galway north west central
Galway west central
Galway south west central
western galway
city west
western town
town west
shannieland
the whest
Tesco west

antoobrien · 30-01-2012 2:37pm

ladhrann wrote: »

The point I believe is that large mall-style developments such as this will on average cause a net loss of jobs in a given area. Not only would smaller businesses tend to shut, but all the suppliers and ancillary services such as accountants, cleaners, lawyers etc. that were employed by those businesses will be under threat.

I'd love to see what evidence you have of that since many of the experiences I have seen are to the contrary.

So I'll ask you a question, have you been to the shopping center in Briarhill?

The newsagent is doing a nice business, as is the chemist, cafe & others - all of which are new businesses.

The Coynes (top of Doughisha rd), Centra (middle of Doughisha), Spar in Rosshill/Roscam (just the other side of the Dublin Rd) and Spar (in Ballybrit) shops within a mile of the Dunnes & Lidl are all still open and appear to have a nice trade.

In the GSC, the fruit & veg shop and (Tormeys I think) butchers are doing well despite being right beside a Tesco.

fishy fishy · 30-01-2012 3:14pm

JustMary wrote: »

fishy, what area do you believe that Corrib Park, Inishhannagh Park, Gaelcarraig Park, John Coogan Park - and Siobhan McKenna Rd itself - are in?

Hint: maybe you can use google to find some of the older thread explaining the difference between

the west side of the city
Westside
The West

hi just mary - Im getting used to you haveing a go at any of my posts (I think just for the sake of it mostly). If you read my posts above you will notice that I said there were POCKETS of the west side that could be classed as more disadvantaged, as there are POCKETS of the East side and every other side also. To describe the West Side in general as girlee did is doing a disservice to not only the people living in the wider Westside area, but to the people reading these posts. The thread is about the tesco building so do try to keep on topic instead of having a go for the sake of it. Thanking you.

http://galwaycity.galway-ireland.ie/suburbs.htm

fishy fishy · 30-01-2012 4:41pm

re. the "jobs" excuse for it being a good thing

No matter WHERE this building is built, there will be jobs to go with it. The "jobs" issue is not exclusive to where it is being built. More than likely the "jobs" will be contractors from OUTSIDE the area, so the comment that it is a good thing because it will create "jobs" in the area is a non-runner. The jobs come no matter where the thing is built and the people being hired will not be exclusive to the area in which it will be built.

factual lies · 31-01-2012 2:23am

JustMary wrote: »

fishy, what area do you believe that Corrib Park, Inishhannagh Park, Gaelcarraig Park, John Coogan Park - and Siobhan McKenna Rd itself - are in?

Hint: maybe you can use google to find some of the older thread explaining the difference between

the west side of the city
Westside
The West

all those housing estates are in "NEWCASTLE".

fishy fishy · 31-01-2012 9:56am

JustMary wrote: »

fishy, what area do you believe that Corrib Park, Inishhannagh Park, Gaelcarraig Park, John Coogan Park - and Siobhan McKenna Rd itself - are in?

Hint: maybe you can use google to find some of the older thread explaining the difference between

the west side of the city
Westside
The West

I don't need to google justmary, I know exactly what the various places are called on the Westside. To date, there is no estate called Westside. There is a "Westside" shopping centre who caters for ALL THE ESTATES IN THE WEST SIDE OF THE CITY. Maybe it's you who should "google"

31-01-2012 11:55am

Westside is designated as a Rapid area by the city council - page 31 of the following rather large PDF contains a map of Westside as designated by the city council for the rapid program.http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,656,en.pdf

Mrs OBumble · 31-01-2012 2:05pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

I don't need to google justmary, I know exactly what the various places are called on the Westside. To date, there is no estate called Westside. There is a "Westside" shopping centre who caters for ALL THE ESTATES IN THE WEST SIDE OF THE CITY. Maybe it's you who should "google"

I have indeed been googling. I spent some of yesterday evening drawing a map of supermarkets in the "metropolitan area". http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214062428912677824250.0004b7bf2f129eb6aa233&msa=0&ll=53.302569,-9.031792&spn=0.076014,0.182476

It shows quite graphically the relative shortage of 'em west of the river - making me even more in favour of the proposal - provided the truck access off suburban Rahoon Rd can be resolved.

Complain as much as you want, but in my mind there IS any area called Westside, and it's a good deal more disadvantaged than Knocknacarra or Barna or the Claddagh or Taylors Hill or Highfield (all parts of "west side" in your definitions). That doesn't mean that all individuals living there are disadvantaged - just the area as a whole is, because many people are.

antoobrien · 31-01-2012 2:58pm

JustMary wrote: »

I have indeed been googling. I spent some of yesterday evening drawing a map of supermarkets in the "metropolitan area". http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214062428912677824250.0004b7bf2f129eb6aa233&msa=0&ll=53.302569,-9.031792&spn=0.076014,0.182476

:eek:

I knew the situation was bad but I didn't think it was that unbalanced.

Now to write my submission to the HSE explaining why they should move the hospital lock stock & barrel to merlin park and bulldoze uchg

Robbo · 31-01-2012 3:07pm

Has "Being able to define West Side to within a 100 meter radius" become the new test for "blow ins", replacing the controversial "Trace your lineage over 7 generations to include at least 3 Kings of the Claddagh"?

fishy fishy · 31-01-2012 3:38pm

JustMary wrote: »

I have indeed been googling. I spent some of yesterday evening drawing a map of supermarkets in the "metropolitan area". http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214062428912677824250.0004b7bf2f129eb6aa233&msa=0&ll=53.302569,-9.031792&spn=0.076014,0.182476

It shows quite graphically the relative shortage of 'em west of the river - making me even more in favour of the proposal - provided the truck access off suburban Rahoon Rd can be resolved.

Complain as much as you want, but in my mind there IS any area called Westside, and it's a good deal more disadvantaged than Knocknacarra or Barna or the Claddagh or Taylors Hill or Highfield (all parts of "west side" in your definitions). That doesn't mean that all individuals living there are disadvantaged - just the area as a whole is, because many people are.

must be true then.

antoobrien · 31-01-2012 4:10pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

must be true then.

Lets not get facts involved in the matter at all then.

Westside is one of the areas in Galway that is part of the RAPID scheme, as outlined by pg633's post.

Deleted User wrote: »

Westside is designated as a Rapid area by the city council - page 31 of the following rather large PDF contains a map of Westside as designated by the city council for the rapid program.http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,656,en.pdf

Some details:

RAPID stands for Revitalising Areas through Planning Investment and Development.

It is a focused Government initiative to target the 45 most disadvantaged urban areas and provincial towns in the country. The implementation of the RAPID programme is led by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

Galway City was awarded RAPID status under Strand II (Provincial Towns) of the programme in February 2002 and five areas within the City have been selected.

The Five areas selected within Galway City are:
Westside
Ballinfoile
Bohermore
New Mervue
Ballybane

The map given for Westside is:

Can we now move on please?

fishy fishy · 31-01-2012 4:18pm

looks like a lot of areas to me, that Westside.

Sponge Bob · 31-01-2012 4:22pm

The map includes Shantalla, bet they are simply delighted.

fishy fishy · 31-01-2012 4:45pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The map includes Shantalla, bet they are simply delighted.

TBH, I wouldn't care what map it is included on if I could have bought a house there when I was buying. But glad to see it proves that westside covers Many areas, only some of which are "disadvantaged" - whatever that means.

factual lies · 01-02-2012 8:05am

thats a mad map considering in certain areas of shantalla, one side of the road is included in it and the other side not (Ashe Road for example). What idiot came up with this.

P.S. Shantalla has never and will never be part of the westside!

Sponge Bob · 01-02-2012 9:10am

Last 2 days to object to this ridiculous plan and to the mess it will make of the congested Séamus Quirke Road.

Mrs OBumble · 01-02-2012 2:52pm

antoobrien wrote: »

I knew the situation was bad but I didn't think it was that unbalanced.

Now to write my submission to the HSE explaining why they should move the hospital lock stock & barrel to merlin park and bulldoze uchg

I used to think that too - until I drew a map of hospitals in Galway, and noticed that moving UHG's services to Merlin would leave no hospital at all on the west side of the river. Wouldn't be too handy if a big flood, for example, wiped out two of the bridges.

_Whimsical_ · 01-02-2012 5:56pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Last 2 days to object to this ridiculous plan and to the mess it will make of the congested Séamus Quirke Road.

Have to echo these sentiments. Its not only an issue for people living beside the site but for everyone who is getting home every night to Knocknacarra who thinks the traffic is ridiculous already. Please if you're against it lodge an objection.

galwaycyclist · 02-02-2012 3:00pm

Robbo wrote: »

Has "Being able to define West Side to within a 100 meter radius" become the new test for "blow ins", replacing the controversial "Trace your lineage over 7 generations to include at least 3 Kings of the Claddagh - Like"?

FYP

antoobrien · 02-02-2012 3:29pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Have to echo these sentiments. Its not only an issue for people living beside the site but for everyone who is getting home every night to Knocknacarra who thinks the traffic is ridiculous already. Please if you're against it lodge an objection.

I see your point but, consider this point.

There's a lot of traffic attempting to get over the QB from the Western half of CO Galway that may use this facility instead.

How do you know that it won't reduce or redistribute the overall level of traffic on the road?

When the motorway opened, the traffic switched from trying to get into town along the Monivea Road to using the motorway & dc instead. Also the opening of Dunnes hasn't (that I can see) increased the levels of traffic in Briarhill, just changed the nature of it and when it builds up.

A quick look at Google earth tells me that Briarhill is about the same size (possibly bigger) that the Tesco proposal in Westside.

The problem with Briarhill is the location of the entrance, not the existence of the shopping center (as you seem to believe). I think that the fact that there are two proper entrances for Tesco will make access better than it is in Briarhill.

galwaycyclist · 02-02-2012 3:43pm

Apparently there were about 30 observations in on this by lunchtime today with more people coming in. The following was logged on behalf of the Cycling Campaign. Looking at the plans it appears the traffic circulation for the car parks could be handled entirely within the site without any need to go out onto Rahoon Rd. I think the closing date is Monday so people still have tomorrow to make observations.

On behalf of the committee I wish to make an observation on the above planning application.
This development backs onto the southern end of the Rahoon Rd. If it proceeds, then in our view no access whatever for motor vehicles should be permitted onto Rahoon Rd.

The Rahoon Rd./Shantalla Rd corridor represents the primary walking and cycling route into the West of the City Centre from the Rahoon/Fort Lorenzo/East Knocknacarra catchment. It is also functions as the main route for schoolchildren from this catchment trying to reach the secondary schools concentrated in the West of the City Centre. These include St Mary's, St. Joseph's Patrician College, Coláiste Iognáid, the Presentation Secondary. Some of these schools also have associated national schools. In addition there is a national school located on Shantalla Road itself. The corridor also serves as a route to the Taylors hill secondary and primary schools from both the catchment named above and the Shantalla district. The above catchments also act as a dormitory area for students attending the language schools concentrated in the city centre. Many of these students hire and use bicycles for the duration of their stay in Galway. In addition the adjacent Dun Arus Student Village and Glean Dara estates house many University students, particularly overseas students, in rented accommodation.

The road itself is quite narrow in parts, with lanes widths that do not permit overtaking of cyclists by motor vehicles when there is oncoming traffic. Provided traffic levels are kept low and of an appropriate mix, it still represents an adequate cycling and walking route. Given its existing function within the transportation infrastructure of the city, it is not suitable as a route for delivery vehicles particularly HGVs or other types of heavy commercial vehicles. The narrowness of the roads also renders it unsuitable as a route for private motor cars accessing the retail services proposed for the development. All such traffic should be directed to the new Seamus Quirke Rd corridor to the North of the site.

Notwithstanding the above observations, suitable foot and cycle access should be provided both to the site from the Rahoon Rd, and through the site to the Seamus Quirke Rd.

Yours faithfully,

fishy fishy · 02-02-2012 4:03pm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Apparently there were about 30 observations in on this by lunchtime today with more people coming in. The following was logged on behalf of the Cycling Campaign. Looking at the plans it appears the traffic circulation for the car parks could be handled entirely within the site without any need to go out onto Rahoon Rd. I think the closing date is Monday so people still have tomorrow to make observations.

good letter, and it highlights one of the major problems on the shantalla/rahoon road - that of the massive trucks coming on on the tesco site to drop their deliveries early morning (the back of the store will be facing this) it will also have the added "bonus" of ramps being loaded as the proposed shop will be "on a higher level". Add this to what is already a bad area for traffice and it's chaos.

but sure, when it comes to being on th side of a fellow counciillor (ex councillor) the general public can just to a bug*er off.

what is so annoying is that the seller had no qualms about putting objections in to apartments near his private residence. and he's trying to imply that putting in this tesco will be "for the good of the residents". how stupid does he think people are. he got what he wanted, he will take the money and run. He couldn't care less about anything else.

inisboffin · 02-02-2012 5:45pm

The limited motor vehicle access via Rahoon Rd is a very valid point. I assume, however, that even if access for delivery vans is from a different entrance, the 24 hour noise problem for residents will still be there, as the bay doors will still be in the same place and the will still be doing their unloading and *beep beep beeps* there?

galwaycyclist · 02-02-2012 6:54pm

inisboffin wrote: »

The limited motor vehicle access via Rahoon Rd is a very valid point. I assume, however, that even if access for delivery vans is from a different entrance, the 24 hour noise problem for residents will still be there, as the bay doors will still be in the same place and the will still be doing their unloading and *beep beep beeps* there?

I reckon so - my reading of the plans indicates, that if this modification was applied, they could still cater for internal traffic with their own roadway inside the boundary wall. There would be no need to amend the building in any way.

galwaycyclist · 02-02-2012 7:04pm

Also looking at the drawings - they have the feel of a hidden agenda from the city council roads department - who presumably instructed the designers.

It looks like the bigger plan might be to route the Rahoon Rd to the Seamus Quirke road via the Higgins site altogether and eventually close off the existing entrance beside the ESB Substation. Might explain why in the SQR design they have aligned the Circular road junction with Glean Dara rather than the Rahoon Rd.

snubbleste · 02-02-2012 7:43pm

That is the case galwaycyclist. It is not hidden though.
See post #104 & #105

02-02-2012 11:00pm

regarding the 24 hour noise thing, people realise they are living in a city, right?

There are cars, trucks, street sweepers, dump trucks, bikes, drunks, vans etc etc going up and down that road every hour of every day

inisboffin · 02-02-2012 11:52pm

DaCor wrote: »

regarding the 24 hour noise thing, people realise they are living in a city, right?

There are cars, trucks, street sweepers, dump trucks, bikes, drunks, vans etc etc going up and down that road every hour of every day

Rahoon Road?

If I were a large vehicle I'd take the maIn road if I had a choice, as Rahoon Rd is so narrow. I walk up that road a lot, and it is nowhere near as noisy as SQR or BOD road in terms of large vehicle traffic.

_Whimsical_ · 03-02-2012 1:52am

Really good letter Galway cyclist.Well done.

I mentioned similar concerns in my letter, particularly re school children using those roads. If you ever drive that road from Scoil Bride up Rahoon Rd at around 2.30 - 3 it is frightening to see such tiny kids on bikes on the way home and chasing each other etc as kids do and paying no attention as they pass each other out by hopping off the footpath onto the road. With limited traffic it's lucky someone hasn't got hurt but the idea of heavier traffic and large vehicles on that road just gives me the creeps.

snubbleste · 03-02-2012 10:45am

What makes you guys think that delivery trucks will be coming up Rahoon Road at all?
It's a bit preposterous tbh.
The main entrance to the Centre will be from the proposed new road and I'd wager all delivery trucks will be using the ultra-modern SQR to access the development.
f) Construction of new road through the site, connecting the existing Rahoon Road to the Seamus Quirke Road, and all associated works. Access to the retail development will be from this new section of road, as well as from the existing Rahoon Road;

also for those fans of placenames, that august font of knowledge galwaynews.ie has decided that Highfield is in Newcastle :cool:

fishy fishy · 03-02-2012 1:04pm

from what I hear (and I could be wrong) i think the "delivery" road WILL be down the rahoon road and the access will be through the Mount Pleasant driveway (cul de sac). I don't think those large trucks will be able to access from the front of the tesco and rahoon road will have to be used for this. Now I am open to correction on this, but it is just what I have heard.

galwaycyclist · 03-02-2012 1:53pm

snubbleste wrote: »

What makes you guys think that delivery trucks will be coming up Rahoon Road at all?
It's a bit preposterous tbh.
The main entrance to the Centre will be from the proposed new road and I'd wager all delivery trucks will be using the ultra-modern SQR to access the development.
f) Construction of new road through the site, connecting the existing Rahoon Road to the Seamus Quirke Road, and all associated works. Access to the retail development will be from this new section of road, as well as from the existing Rahoon Road;

also for those fans of placenames, that august font of knowledge galwaynews.ie has decided that Highfield is in Newcastle :cool:

It might be a generational thing. I am old enough to remember what it used to be like for a cyclist to meet the Connacht Laundry Trucks coming up Shantalla Rd. Particularly at the transient pinch point outside the school.

This is a country where the idea of keeping HGVs and heavy traffic off school routes is not even a concept. Try bringing your truck down the wrong road at the wrong time of day in Germany and the cops will nail your ass - to coin a phrase.

In Galway, the City Council Transport Unit have refused to even countenance the idea of having a HGV management strategy as part of their draft Walking and Cycling Strategy (Although it is in the National Cycle Policy Framework).

Ireland is a country where "laissez faire" is the official attitude on these things. If the delivery people think they can save 30secs using Rahoon Rd instead of Seamus Quirke Rd then, in my view, they will do so.

Given that this is the operating environment why leave it to chance?

Sponge Bob · 03-02-2012 3:20pm

galwaycyclist wrote: »

In Galway, the City Council Transport Unit have refused to even countenance the idea of having a HGV management strategy as part of their draft Walking and Cycling Strategy (Although it is in the National Cycle Policy Framework).

Why would they when a former FF councillor, ex Mayor and owner of a Hardware store next to a school in Shantalla would vehemently object and make their life a misery. :rolleyes:

Council vote on new Westside Tesco

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