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The Billy Meier UFO case Switzerland

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Original Billy Meier Hasenbol photo
    260_BM_Hasenbol_framed_OK2.jpg

    Fake remake by Phil Langdon
    265_PL_pendulum_day_099_sz.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    dyer,

    Your photo on top is the original photo number 174 I had in mind. It became the official photo in this series. It became printed in various books and as well it became a focus for discussion, such as the Jim Dilettoso vs Kal K Korff debate on FOX.

    In the German photo book it is listed as taken 18.02 h on the 29 March 1976

    But just to clarify:
    According to Stevens, Meier shot five 36-shot rolls of film during this contact. It was a contact which went on for some time. Two of these five films were lost in processing and were never recovered he wrote. Stevens printed several photographs from these films. He writes that the setting sun is out of the picture below.

    The enlargement of the best of these pictures clearly shows the symmetry of the rim of the space craft cut off diagonally by the forked branches in the tree to the left. So just to clarify it is the best of these two pictures he tested, in order to establish whether the tree were in front or behind the ship. Unfortunately Stevens did not number these two photos. He only put the time as 19:50 which would indicate the second series of photographs.

    So from what Stevens here wrote, two photographic series were filmed at this site this day. One series was shot at around 18:10 and the other at about 19:50 after a physical contact. Semjase’s ship first appeared to the south and east of Fischenthal and flew toward the west.

    It then returned from the southwest and approached to the position of the tree 52 yards away. That is the position of the large tree which was 31 feet tall by 21 feet in diameter. The “bushes” in the center are really the tops of a large tree 70 yards away over the hill he further wrote.



    Hasenbol-Langenberg.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    maybe i'm blind.. but they both look in front of the tree to me really. why not post the original colour photos instead of those dull b&w's? i've seen real ufo's they look nothing like these silly objects meier has photographed.

    btw, you do realise that phil langdon's ufo's are just two plates stuck together with a few bits and bobs.. just as everyone proposed meier had done with his own models?

    another billy meier original

    71_BM_Hasenbol_wide_2_sz.jpg

    another phil langdon 'original' fake

    72_BM_Hasenbol_wide_3_w_branch_sz.jpg

    bergheim: don't believe in something unless you've seen it yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    squonk wrote: »
    I hear what you're saying but most people also have lives and don't have time to devote large chunks of time and effort into serious research. I always think if you can't get your message across succintly on one A4 page then there's something wrong with the message. There's also the point that if you hear an extraordinary claim, is it more likely that A. It's true, or B. it's a hoax? I'd go with B based on life experience and my outlook.

    The motivation of the Aliens is completely lost on me now. Why did they bother showing up at all if they only appeared to one guy or a small group and left some sort of self-help message with this guy? Is it more likely that A. they want to improve the human race or B. the guy is pulling a fast one?

    Where's my conviction to expend time on this stuff if these basic questions don't look like they're answered? Why has nobody else heard from these guys since? Frankly the alien's efforts seem largely pointless to me at this stage. It might be crass but they'd frankly be better off showing up on the White House lawn and getting into the Oval Office to see Obama because at least then there'd be less of the controversy and less distraction from their overall goal. right now it looks like they wasted their time!

    The message given is about personal spiritual development and self responsibility. Ask yourself this...what would be the point of delivering this message by landing on the whitehouse lawn and thereby forcefully changing the world view of an entire race of people on the planet, everything they know changed in an instant from religion to science, religious people would experience the total destruction of their world view which would shatter cultures all over the world, scientists and military would have access to technologies they have no experience of and due to not going through the process of trial and error in discovering these technologies would likely destroy us all. Evolution is a natural process with natural laws there are no short cuts to experience and wisdom, this is why they don't land on the whitehouse lawn. We have to get there through our own hard work and trial and error.
    The message was given now because this man Meier would write it down uncorrupted and not distort it in any way and it will be preserved that way now that the world has access worldwide to technology and writing such as never before. This is a long term thing, think about how old the universe is, think about the process of evolution, we are slow learners and we've gotten the core message wrong about what it's all about. Most people don't even give a thought to the spiritual side of themselves and when they do they are slaves to distorted messages from thousands of years ago and are usually whipping themselves on the backs for masturbating in case they go to an imaginary hell or blowing them selves up for eternal sex with virgins. It's all gone horribly wrong and these guys are just trying to give us a nudge in the right direction, they are not going to do it for us, for the entire planet to change it will take one person at a time over many hundreds of years.

    If you don't think there is a spiritual side to humans then don't bother with it, that's what the message is all about. In regards to spending so much time researching, I was convinced by the first message I read but I wasn't sure about the delivery which took a lot longer as there are many people over the years who have interfered with Meiers material and falsified information. It's also difficult to figure it all out when most people have an ignorant attitude towards the case and refuse to discuss it logically and when you do point out their mistakes they backtrack and say something else moronic ad nauseum. (moderators of websites can be the worst for this which makes it even more difficult)
    If you want something relatively short to read that introduces the spiritual concepts look at this:

    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/An_Introduction_To_The_Spirit_Teaching


    Last words: Mods if you have to edit your comments to make you look less stupid you should refrain from adding more insults and leave it at that.

    Dyer: Phil Langdon and all others who have tried to recreate Meier's pictures have refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.

    Ps the reason no one has heard about his in a long time is that years ago a guy called Kal Korff wrote a book debunking Meier which was widely recieved as fact by the ufo community. It has recently been proven that Korff doctored Meier's pictures and airbrushed lines into them as well as his book being full of other errors and outright lies about Meier,I know this because I spoke to the guy who illustrated his book, and he has since publicly apologised for his part in it but no one seems to care about that and people to this day quote Korffs book as evidence of hoax.

    Anyhoo I'm done. Have a look or don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    ..(moderators of websites can be the worst for this which makes it even more difficult)

    Last words: Mods if you have to edit your comments to make you look less stupid you should refrain from adding more insults and leave it at that.
    You want to point out anywhere that I've done this?
    Tread carefully with your accusations please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    I wasn't talking about you. There is more than one moderator on the thread. :)
    And by the way if you are talking about the jumping branches on a video of Meiers that video has been cut, there is an existing original video where the branches don't "disappear" there is also a picture in an old wendelle stevens book from the 1970's that show the branches in front of the ship, these things are hard to find and are not known to most people . The problem with the stuff you find on the internet is that most of it has either been tampered with at some stage or the images are so degraded by digital processes that you lose vital details. I have an original first generation copy of one of Stevens books on the case and it's much better than anything you will see on the web. Meier has over 800 surviving pictures most of which are not available to the public many of which I've seen in Switzerland and before you ask why he doesn't release them it's because he 's spent 40 years answering questions about this and he now wants to be left in peace to do what he was supposed to do which is write down as much knowledge of the teachings as he can before he dies. There is a reason everything was done as it was, the purpose was to provide an ongoing controversy that remains in the public consciousness slowly opening peoples minds to these pretty far out concepts and he's done a good job as far as I'm concerned there aren't many cases like this that have survived people arguing about it for over 40 years. Before he was basically shot in the back by some nefarious people like Kal Korff his case was huge, even so the ideas have stayed in the public mind decades later people fanatically argue about it to this day on both sides and in the middle there are people who get it and are reasonable and rational about it and there are also people who couldn't give a **** either way. Honestly on the surface it does seem like bull**** because of the sheer amount of bull**** put out there by people using arguments that make no sense whatsoever for example one of my favourite ones is the "that's not a real laser gun" argument. Ask your other moderator how many real alien weapons he has seen in his professional capacity as a copy and paster? It is idiotic to state that you surmise that something is not real based on something you have absolutely no reference to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    The other mod is only another poster in this forum. I'm the only mod of this forum. So no more digs please, first, last and only warning.

    Is it not equally 'idiotic' to take it to be real when you too have no real frame of reference? The same rules apply to both sides of any argument, so less of the belittling people simply because they don't have the same beliefs that you do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    My apologies it says moderator underneath his name, didn't see that it was for games. I was merely making the point that it's not a valid argument,and it isn't, I can't prove it's real, I'm not asking anyone to believe that it is just don't use an argument like that in what should be a logical discussion, personally I'm only really interested in the spiritual aspect of the case but this is what happens when you try to discuss it, someone pastes up a picture of a ray gun saying it's not real because it doesn't look like a real space gun, I'm not saying it looks like a real space gun , I've never seen one either, that's all you can really say about it. What is real is the hole in the tree that he shot at and the line of burnt undergrowth following the trajectory of the shot confirmed and photographed by people on site shortly after the picture was taken, these things should be taken into consideration when talking about the picture but inevitably they never are. Every argument put forth against Meier can be logically rebuffed with evidence to back it up but to know this you have to research it, it's much harder to do this than simply cut and paste from others who have done shoddy investigations themselves many of which have falsified their data or just gotten things completely wrong because of lazyness or incompetence. I'm not asking people to believe anything , it's not unreasonable to expect people to discuss things in a rational manner...ask questions, that sort of thing. Unfortunately it doesn't happen in this case very often. The original post from the person concerned had belittling content directed at me which was removed after I pointed out he hadn't read my post properly then it was replaced with another one, I thought he was a mod of this thread, it's a common event in threads of this type, you can't even post anything about Meier on the most used unexplained website abovetopsecret as it gets put straight into the hoax bin without discussion! Even new evidence contradicting what has been claimed is ignored, it's frustrating to say the least for people who spend a long time trying to get to the truth of the matter. Again I apologise for the manner of my argument but the meaning is valid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    Dyer: Phil Langdon and all others who have tried to recreate Meier's pictures have refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.
    refused to have their pictures put through the same tests as Meiers were, which through testing showed large objects at distance.
    what the hell does that even mean?

    why would they bother? christ on a stick..its in front of the tree, no its behind the tree.. the ventricular light shining off my cock at 32 degrees at the point of origin when the sun sets PROVES beyond doubt that it's real. please do continue to waste your life on earth and argue about all of these idiosyncrasies that do not matter, instead of the real point.. that being, it's FAKE... always was.. and always will be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    You don't understand that? How can I make it any simpler? Meier's photographs were tested in the 1970's using the best technology available and the investigators concluded the pictures showed large objects at some reasonable distance from the camera. No one else who have tried to recreate the photographs have submitted theirs for the same tests because they use small models close to the camera and they would show up as such. What don't you understand? The tree shown in one of the previous posts is a very large tree, there are pictures of the investigators standing beneath it, if the object is behind it it means it's a large object in the photograph. How is that an idiosyncrasy??? Meier has a photograph of a strange looking gun which proves nothing in itself as it could be fake,fair enough, he also somehow burned an oval hole straight through a decent sized tree and burned the undergrowth behind the exit hole. That's an idiosyncrasy? It's not, it's very interesting , in the very least it's interesting to try and figure out how he did it if he did fake it. It seem a lot of trouble to go to and no one has been able to say how he did it because he didn't use a drill (The tree was out of distance of power tools and he only has one arm) or a blow torch,( you can't burn a 1" hole straight through a tree with a blowtorch) I've seen the original footage of the tree taken in the 1970's and read the original investigation reports and also actually seen the tree itself which is still there and still has a hole in it. Tell me how you fake it then? It's an 1" oval shaped hole straight through a green living tree about a foot in diameter. ?

    Here is a quote from you about the ufo subject:
    " There are a few things about discussing this phenomenon that really irk me.
    First of all, the stigma that's attached to it. Let me say, first and foremost, i am a scientist at heart, but i dont like the constrictions or the egoism of modern science. Such small minded thinking does not allow room for the advancement of knowledge. The subject of ufology gets relegated to the realm of conspiracy theory, or in the case of this board, the paranormal forum, point in case. Should not the study of attempting to prove the existence of extraterristrial life not belong to the sciences? It might well be the most important discovery of mankinds existence, and one which could advance our civilization beyond our imagination. If you speak about witnessing ufo's you're either a crackpot, hallucinating, lying, on drugs, or any other of the random mundane reasons that allow this issue to be swept under the carpet."

    Why does this rational not apply to this case? Yes there are some decidedly dodgy photographs maybe a handful out of over 800 surviving photographs but Meier has always claimed these were tampered with. If you read the original investigation conducted by Col. Wendelle Stevens even they had evidence stolen from them while they were there as did Marcel Vogel who was examining metal samples. There were over 2000 photographs taken by Meier, many were stolen by visitors/ the photographic lab he used/ other investigators etc..even the sheer amount of evidence he had warrants some serious thought. People get excited when someone takes a blurry photo of a light in the sky, Meier would go out and come back a few hours later with 40 or 50 pictures of what seem to be close up pictures of large ships all the while being followed by visitors to his house trying to catch him out. How did he do it? He didn't do it the way Phil Langdon does with models suspended from trees as it's not possible in most of the locations where the photo's were taken, again I know this because I have visited the locations. What qualifies you to say I'm wasting my life investigating this, have you done any extensive research into the case apart from googling billy meier hoax and reading the rehashed nonsense of Kal Korff (did you read my earler post) Maybe think about this before shouting about cocks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    If anyone has an actual question I'll reply otherwise I,m done, replying to people shouting about cocks is indeed a waste of my life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    My apologies it says moderator underneath his name, didn't see that it was for games. I was merely making the point that it's not a valid argument,and it isn't, I can't prove it's real, I'm not asking anyone to believe that it is just don't use an argument like that in what should be a logical discussion,

    I think it's safe to assume that's me your talking about? As the Damo said, I'm but a regular poster here merely expressing my opinion...as each & every one of us is entitled to do.

    It's my opinion that a picture says a thousand words, & because the picture shows what resembles a feeble attempt at a hoax [the ray gun], I'm gonna assume the rest of Meier's story has the same caliber of bullsh1t that the picture does.

    I'd like to believe it, it's a fascinating 'tale', & would be pretty inspiring to know such events are going on...but the simple fact is, the pictures are terrible, the evidence is terrible, & the whole 'spiritual' spin on it is terrible. If you choose to believe it, fair dues, I'd never knock anyone elses beliefs & again am merely expressing my own opinion. I'm no out to convince you it's fake, I'm happy enough concluding that for myself.

    Also, your posts are incredibly difficult to read & appear as walls of text. I'm finding myself just scanning over your posts due to this & may be missing things. Small paragraphs make posts much easier & interesting to read :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    i was just takin the mick tony :) (pun intended) you're well within your rights to believe what you want to, all i'm saying is that this case is so full of holes it doesn't hold water. it's a great tale of fantasy and fiction.. none of the evidence stands up to any real scientific scrutiny. it's quite convenient to pawn off any inconsistencies in his stories by blaming some kind of disinformation campaign against him, evidence being falsified and planted or whatever other mundane excuses or tall tales he tells.. it's the whole the dog ate my homework syndrome over and over again.

    http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm
    All of the information that I examined from Billy Meier's Contact Notes can be found in sources that were widely available before the confirmed publication of the "predictions". This leaves open the possibility that he took the information from ordinary sources. Some of the information was reported in the media even before the date that Meier claimed to receive it from the Plejarens.

    Some of the information that Meier reported is incorrect. Taken by itself, that does not say anything about the source of the information. Information could have come from Plejarens and been transcribed or translated wrong, or the Plejarens could have made a mistake, or they could have deliberately given incorrect information.

    However, given that so many of the errors which were reported in Meier's Contact Notes were the same errors that appeared in media reports, it is very likely that Meier's primary source for information was the media.

    In the 1983 book, UFO…Contact From The Pleiades Volume II, this photo is presented:
    Contact_From_The_Pleiades-Asket-small.jpg
    The person identified as Asket is actually the singer and dancer Michelle DellaFave. Michelle was a longtime member of the “Golddiggers” and the “Dingaling Sisters” who appeared on the Dean Martin Variety Show from 1969-1973. Michelle first became aware that Billy Meier had published photographs of her as being his extra-terrestrial contact “Asket” in early 2007.

    This is what Michelle had to say on the situation:

    “I know that the picture of myself and Susie is from the Dean Martin show when the Golddiggers were guests on the show. I think it is about 1971 and I did wear my hair with little curls at the side of my face. It amazes me that he chose that picture. I guess it was when they did the reruns in Europe. I do not want anyone thinking I am causing any problems. I am simply stating the truth involved with these pictures. I just know a picture of myself when I see one, as anyone else would. I know it is from a segment when The Golddiggers would sit around Dean Martin and sing beautiful ballads called ‘Welcome To My World.’”

    Billy Meier's writes in 2001..
    “Unfortunately, during my conversation with Ptaah he revealed that the two women depicted on the photos are not Asket and Nera from the DAL Universe, but two American look-alikes. These photos are malicious hoaxes and were switched upon the order of and in collaboration with the ‘Men in Black.’”

    For at least 18 years, from 1983 to 2001, these photographs of “Asket” and “Nera” were promoted and published, multiple times, as being his Plejaran extra-terrestrial contacts, but then in 2001 these same photos were now being described as “malicious hoaxes”

    as for your metal samples : Metal Analysis Deconstruction

    anyhoo.. this thread's going nowhere.. just like every other billy meier thread out there i'd imagine. good luck with it :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    This is why I hate posting about this case.

    You don't like the picture of the raygun

    because it doesn't look like any raygun you've ever seen and you don't care

    about the rest of the information connected with it ,not that you know about

    it because my writing is too close together for you to take the time to read

    what I'm saying but you will comment on my post anyway and just assume

    I've said something that doesn't make sense.




    And everyone has seen the Dean Martin pics, the story behind it is bizzare I agree and I don't know what to make of the excuse but If you have spent as long as I have investigating the rest of the evidence which does hold up under scrutiny then you just can't throw the baby out with the bath water. As I said before there are about 5 suspicious photo's out of 800 surviving ones, and the 5 claim to have been tampered with.

    Kal Korff actually paid someone to airbrush lines into Meier's photographs and claimed that he had found them through analysis and published this in his book about the Meier hoax, everyone believed that for years..most still do

    IIG's investigation is full of errors, I've even spoke on other forums with Derek Bartholomous as have many others pointing out their errors and they still refuse to alter the data on the website.#
    There are people working on youtube videos at the that basically debunk everything IIG has said but who cares... there's always Dean Martin when everything else has been proven to be true.



    This is why these threads go nowhere :
    Me- "I'd like to discuss a series of UFO photographs from the 1970's that appear to show a ship flying in from a great distance from the camera to hover about 100ft away behind a large tree, there are about 40 photographs in the sequence as well as some video footage, the tree in question is about 50 ft tall"

    - "RAYGUN!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!"

    Me- "I wasn't asking about the raygun picture I was asking about this other series of pictures"

    - "RAYGUN!!!!!!!! I COULD MAKE A BETTER RAYGUN!!!!!! HAHAHAHA!"

    Me- " ok if you want to talk about the raygun I can give you more background on the picture which is quite interesting, there is a lot more than just a picture"

    - YER A BOLLIX!!! DEAN MARTIN!!!! HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!



    I know I wasn't called a Bollix....that's artistic license for comedic effect..

    I'm out of here. Thanks for the interesting conversation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    sorry my friend.. but this is a crock of ****e.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    btw.. id like to ask you one question.. have you ever seen a ufo?


  • Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    Oh dear...this is all a bit embarrassing...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    And everyone has seen the Dean Martin pics, the story behind it is bizzare I agree and I don't know what to make of the excuse but If you have spent as long as I have investigating the rest of the evidence which does hold up under scrutiny then you just can't throw the baby out with the bath water. As I said before there are about 5 suspicious photo's out of 800 surviving ones, and the 5 claim to have been tampered with.

    Honestly, this is one of the elements that (for me) highlights the whole thing to be absolute nonsense. Any of the pictures that can have any reasonable analysis applied to them are dismissed as having been tampered with.

    If you look at some of the collections of the photos, you can see that the 'UFO' is either in front of the branches of the tree, or some of the branches from the tree have been removed from the picture to remove the obvious overlap.

    This is the UFO that flew in a manner that would 'appear' fake in order to create controversy. Deliberately flew in that manner, as opposed to how it would normally fly. :rolleyes:

    Anyone that points out holes in the story is shot down as having tampered with the evidence.

    Also I'd like you to point out to me exactly which posts by EnterNow "had belittling content directed at me which was removed after I pointed out he hadn't read my post properly then it was replaced with another one", as I've looked and cannot see any. Nor can I see any edits on his posts. Nor deleted posts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    ok........
    1. There have been no reasonable analysis done of Meiers photographs done sine the 1970's because the only people who had access to the originals were Wendelle Stephens and his team, who used the most advanced photo analysis technology available at the time and yes they did do analysis on originals it's in their extensive investigation report, their analysis was ignored by the ufo community because they would not share the evidence with other researchers as it was being mislaid or stolen by people on a regular basis also the professionals they went to in order to test their photo samples mostly signed non disclosure agreements about it and so did not comment when asked about it which is what they were supposed to do.
    The 5 "faked" photo's (again I stress out of hundreds) have always been declared since the 1970's as have been tampered with with the exception of the famous Dean Martin dancers pic which I agree is dubious and I said I don't know what to make of it.

    The only other analysis done anywhere near that time was done by Kal Korff who's analysis consisted of using software that was not designed to be used on photo's on at levels of resolution that were useless on polaroids that he took of blow ups of third generation copies, and he claimed he found suspension lines in the pictures! What he actually did was he then himself altered Meiers photographs then passed them on as evidence of fake, this is well documented now. He is a known lunatic now who claims to be some sort of super soldier in the Israeli secret service but everyone believed him at the time and most still quote his work as being valid!

    2. The sequence of pictures you are talking about is the hasenbol sequence, there are 34 photo's showing the object coming in at a distance until it arrives at a large tree, there are a number of shots taken at the tree, the branches aren't removed the object is in different locations in respect to the tree and Meier changes his angle a couple of times and also think about the logistics of setting up 34 different shots getting the model at different distances and different locations at the site using a model in a location where there were a number of farms nearby without being seen? Also due to the different sizes of the object in the pictures he would have had to have more than one model to simulate the effect of it coming in from far away to up close.

    http://www.tjresearch.info/Hasen175_Jansen2.jpg
    http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/f/f9/Prelimp352.jpg
    http://www.tjresearch.info/Hasenbol174_blowup.jpg

    Meier didn't have photoshop in the 1970's these were not altered, the object was in different positions.

    3.The wobbling ufo does look weird, no one disputes that, the only one who has come close to recreating the effects of that video is Phil Langdon but as I've said before his method of doing so is impossible in those locations again I know because I saw the diagrams of the original sites and locations of nearby objects and also visited the sites myself to check. So you are still left with how did he do it. And I'll say it again, he and any others who have attempted to recreate Meier's photo's have consistantly refused to put theirs to the same testing that Meier's were put to. He also states that Meier's beamship sounds are the result of the wind reverberating through the suspension lines of his models. They do sound a bit like that in places, they also sound like a analog tape delay in places , they also sound like two mobile phones close together with speakers on in places...they can't be all three things and they may be something else as claimed, there are parts of the recordings that don't sound like any of these things so you are left with a mystery again when you look closer.

    4 Anyone who points out that there are aspects of the case that can not be explained away by hoax or model theories are completely ignored....

    5. I posted up something, enternow put up a picture known to be a pisstake about anyone talking about aliens misinterpeting what I had said because he didn't read my post properly, I pointed out he hadn't read it properly ( neither did you by your own post) and the picture was removed and then he posted up the raygun picture without even commenting. By his own admission he hadn't read the post and was basically saying it was all a load of crap based on the fact that he didn't like the picture. Very scientific and helpful to the discussion.

    In general the claims of evidence of hoax are leveled at a few of Meier's pictures which were never in dispute anyway, but everyone ignores the rest of the evidence which is very compelling when actually looked at in detail.

    Nobody who is interested in the Meier case is claiming that everything in the case is 100% legit but there is more than enough good evidence to warrant a rational discussion. Sadly it never gets past good old Dean Martin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    5. I posted up something, enternow put up a picture known to be a pisstake about anyone talking about aliens misinterpeting what I had said because he didn't read my post properly, I pointed out he hadn't read it properly ( neither did you by your own post) and the picture was removed and then he posted up the raygun picture without even commenting. By his own admission he hadn't read the post and was basically saying it was all a load of crap based on the fact that he didn't like the picture. Very scientific and helpful to the discussion.

    Ah, I think I can clear this up, if this is the thing you were referring DamoElDiablo to? I initially put up a photo that I hadn't realised was a piss-take [there are so many bad photos in this 'case' it was a bad choice on my part].

    I initially used this photo

    tampalixoplieadiana.jpg

    And it was only once I seen it embedded here I thought it's obviously badly photoshoped [I hadn't noticed this from the source] & replaced it with this

    lasergun1.jpg

    How you took personal offense to this is beyond me. Anyhow, much as it pains me, I think I'll take my leave of this thread. It's obvious the aliens chose badly in Billy Meier, he's made a balls of the message we were supposed to get. Hopefully they'll choose better next time :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Hi ok understood, it is a bad photoshopped image ,The first image you put up was this http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9189283.jpg I took offence as you obviously hadn't read what I had posted and there was no intention of discussion on anything I said just a short "it's rubbish" implication which I assume is what you meant and for what it's worth the message is fine although I do think the delivery method leaves a lot to be desired but it depends on what you think the purpose was in doing it in this way, if the purpose was to keep people arguing about it forever and figure it out for themselves instead of being spoonfed then it's been done very well although the argument is very one sided for the reasons stated above and only seems to reach people who have the patience to delve into it for more than an hour on the internet and an open mind to discuss it which I guess is ok.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Anway moving along ,my apologies to Bergheim who started this thread as I haven't addressed you at all. I got caught up in the non discussion of your very informative posts which everyone as usual completely disregarded. Have you visited the center since 2006?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Hi ok understood, it is a bad photoshopped image ,The first image you put up was this http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/9189283.jpg I took offence as you obviously hadn't read what I had posted and there was no intention of discussion on anything

    He put that up in a direct response to something that I'd said. I've no idea how you took this to be belittling content directed at you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Quinntan


    The 5 "faked" photo's (again I stress out of hundreds) have always been declared since the 1970's as have been tampered with with the exception of the famous Dean Martin dancers pic which I agree is dubious and I said I don't know what to make of it.

    Bull**** is what you make of it.

    First of all, why would he repeat that claim? The photo is originally published, from what I can fathom, in 1983 and then reprinted in better quality in 1991. Now surely, if the photo had been switched on him the first time, wouldn't Meier have noticed it during the eight years between 1983 and 1991? Yes, he would have or else he hasn't got two brain cells to rub together. But yet that doesn't happen. Instead he writes letters to the publishers of his books thanking them for doing such a brilliant job of it. Do you want to know why he starts blaming the men in black for so blatantly putting in a faked picture of alien all of a sudden?

    deanmartinvarietyshowvhs.jpg

    Our favourite one-armed hoaxer was at risk of being exposed as a fraud, so he did what anyone who's way too deep into a lie does. He lies some more to try and get out of it.

    Oh, and tony...
    Meier didn't have photoshop in the 1970's these were not altered, the object was in different positions.

    Photo manipulation existed in the 1970s too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Amazing how everyone can totally ignore all the valid information that has been posted up on these threads by myself and Bergheim who started the thread. Demonstrating my various points admirably,(not that anyone has considered them) there is no point in responding to anything when you don't even read the posts I'm making.
    Mostly I stay away from these discussions because it's usually on american websites and the level of intelligence is unbelievably low. I was hoping for an actual discussion on the posts Bergheim and I put up but no.

    Yes Dean Martin....rayguns...dinosaurs....Jesus. Yawn.

    Why do people even bother to comment on something when they know next to nothing about it.
    At least try and read the bloody posts you are responding to, it's common courtesy in most places to listen to a person speaking before you butt in and tell them they are full of ****.

    Try this for an exercise... read down through the comments from the start of the thread and follow the conversations to see how wonderfully open minded and logical this exchange has been.

    Bored now.
    Bye.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Well I've read it all, painful as it has been, and I'm still completely convinced that the whole thing is a hoax.
    Bored now.
    Bye.
    Sorry that you find that people that have a different conclusion to be small/closed minded. The people that frequent this forum are actually very open minded, due to the nature of the forum. Doesn't mean that they can't smell when something's not right though. There is a lot of the Meier stuff seems fake as hell, leaving people with the feeling that the rest is probably just as bad if not worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Well I've read it all, painful as it has been, and I'm still completely convinced that the whole thing is a hoax.

    Sorry that you find that people that have a different conclusion to be small/closed minded. The people that frequent this forum are actually very open minded, due to the nature of the forum. Doesn't mean that they can't smell when something's not right though. There is a lot of the Meier stuff seems fake as hell, leaving people with the feeling that the rest is probably just as bad if not worse.

    I don't mind people coming to a different conclusion after careful deduction and reasoning knowing all the facts. The only posts from others have been to bring up repeatedly the couple of known problems with the Meier case despite the explanations given for them and there was a total lack of interest in discussing the other information provided by Bergheim and myself about a ton of other very valid evidence.
    In Wendelle Stevens investigation reports alone there are over 1000 pages of detailed information from a three year onsite investigation in Switzerland. And people dismiss it because they think the raygun doesn't look like areal raygun ?? or can't accept that some of the thousands of people that called to Meier's house while this was going on and stole his pictures may have tampered with a few of them to discredit him.

    If you can honestly say that this was a open minded discussion about this topic then fine. I'll leave you guys to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Quinntan


    I don't mind people coming to a different conclusion after careful deduction and reasoning knowing all the facts. The only posts from others have been to bring up repeatedly the couple of known problems with the Meier case despite the explanations given for them and there was a total lack of interest in discussing the other information provided by Bergheim and myself about a ton of other very valid evidence.

    Please do not try to dismiss them as minor problems. These are serious allegations that he has manufactured evidence to support his claims.
    In Wendelle Stevens investigation reports alone there are over 1000 pages of detailed information from a three year onsite investigation in Switzerland. And people dismiss it because they think the raygun doesn't look like areal raygun ??

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence from credible investigators who are willing to have other people scrutinise their work. Wendelle Stevens never was credible, and he never allowed his investigation to come under serious scrutiny.
    or can't accept that some of the thousands of people that called to Meier's house while this was going on and stole his pictures may have tampered with a few of them to discredit him.

    If this is about the Dean Martin photo, then why did he reprint it? Why did he write letters to his publishers saying he was very happy with their work?
    If you can honestly say that this was a open minded discussion about this topic then fine. I'll leave you guys to it.

    The thing is, part of me wants it to be true. I want there to be aliens who care about what we get up to, but I also want there to be compelling evidence to support the claim. Without that evidence, however, I must remain skeptical until such compelling evidence comes to light.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Quinntan wrote: »
    Please do not try to dismiss them as minor problems. These are serious allegations that he has manufactured evidence to support his claims.



    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence from credible investigators who are willing to have other people scrutinise their work. Wendelle Stevens never was credible, and he never allowed his investigation to come under serious scrutiny.



    If this is about the Dean Martin photo, then why did he reprint it? Why did he write letters to his publishers saying he was very happy with their work?



    The thing is, part of me wants it to be true. I want there to be aliens who care about what we get up to, but I also want there to be compelling evidence to support the claim. Without that evidence, however, I must remain skeptical until such compelling evidence comes to light.

    Wow someone asked a question but it's unfortunately about the Dean Martin photo which I've already said I don't know what to make of the whole thing.

    You ask me not to dismiss problems with 4 or 5 photo's out of 800 survivng ones , I haven't , I've stated there are problems with them and also stated that there may be tampered with. I have given clear evidence that in at least one case this happened and is well documented., but never mind dismiss that.

    I explained why Wendelle Stevens did not share his findings with other ufo researchers but you can dismiss that also.

    I could go into more detail about the Dean Martin photo's but whats the point...

    I've just talked about compelling evidence in regards to the Hasenbol sequence of photographs, which you all have not only dismissed but completely ignored. I could tell you about my evidence from my own investigation in Switzerland that proves that model maker Phil Langdon has gotten it completely wrong about how he thinks Meier faked the photo's and Langdon is the only one in 40 years who has gotten close to recreating the look of the photographs. But that would be ignored as well.

    No one has any interest in rationally discussing this case. All people are capable of doing is parroting on about Dean Martin from the comfort of their armchairs. At least Langdon got off his arse and tried to figure it out but even he refuses to believe that he's wrong and won't go to the locations himself to see why it's impossible.

    It's really incredible , I don't understand why people can't use their own brains to think for themselves. You will shout about one picture being a hoax and cheerfully ignore 790 others that other professionals thought were genuine, that logic is amazingly flawed.

    I'm leaving the internet now. This is as I had stated in my first post pointless. I should have listened to myself!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Quinntan


    Tony, what do you make of his predictions?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    I don't mind people coming to a different conclusion after careful deduction and reasoning knowing all the facts. The only posts from others have been to bring up repeatedly the couple of known problems with the Meier case despite the explanations given for them and there was a total lack of interest in discussing the other information provided by Bergheim and myself about a ton of other very valid evidence.
    In Wendelle Stevens investigation reports alone there are over 1000 pages of detailed information from a three year onsite investigation in Switzerland. And people dismiss it because they think the raygun doesn't look like areal raygun ?? or can't accept that some of the thousands of people that called to Meier's house while this was going on and stole his pictures may have tampered with a few of them to discredit him.

    If you can honestly say that this was a open minded discussion about this topic then fine. I'll leave you guys to it.

    careful deduction and reasoning knowing all the facts? Seriously? The couple of known problems with the Meier case prove that its a load of crap..if you cant see that .. well good luck to you. "as opposed to the explanations given for them and there was a total lack of interest in discussing the other information".. well.. obviously trying to explain complex ideas to some people who just cannot grasp reality, and who will make up extraordinary claims despite all scientific knowledge is beyond my own comprehension.. and sometimes beyond my own ****ing limits of wanting to exist on this earth!

    just on this fact alone.. id like to know.. what is your scientific back ground? what are your religious beliefs? are you a scientist or a philosopher.. or maybe just someone who believes whatever the **** they read without understanding any of it at all? im asking :)

    your deductions seem to be no better than a christian trying to tell us why jesus died on a cross.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    dyer wrote: »
    just on this fact alone.. id like to know.. what is your scientific back ground? what are your religious beliefs? are you a scientist or a philosopher.. or maybe just someone who believes whatever the **** they read without understanding any of it at all? im asking :)

    Careful now. This is bordering on abusive. Please keep it civil folks, attack the posts, not the poster.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭dyer


    my apologies, i never meant to be abusive.. just a tad bit exasperated with the whole thing. i'm sorry if i didn't put my thoughts across in the most amicable way (which is often true when i'm inebriated:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    dyer wrote: »
    careful deduction and reasoning knowing all the facts? Seriously? The couple of known problems with the Meier case prove that its a load of crap..if you cant see that .. well good luck to you. "as opposed to the explanations given for them and there was a total lack of interest in discussing the other information".. well.. obviously trying to explain complex ideas to some people who just cannot grasp reality, and who will make up extraordinary claims despite all scientific knowledge is beyond my own comprehension.. and sometimes beyond my own ****ing limits of wanting to exist on this earth!

    just on this fact alone.. id like to know.. what is your scientific back ground? what are your religious beliefs? are you a scientist or a philosopher.. or maybe just someone who believes whatever the **** they read without understanding any of it at all? im asking :)

    your deductions seem to be no better than a christian trying to tell us why jesus died on a cross.

    What deductions are you referring to? I posted up facts, which were ignored, you probably didn't even read them. I've been to Switzerland and spoken with the people concerned and investigated the photographic sites myself, I haven't sat at a computer and believed what I have read.
    You are the one posting up Phil Langdons recreations which I've already said are not possible (the way he does it)at the locations Meier took the pictures at. Stevens said that stringing up models was not possible in his investigations but I didn't believe that just because I read it, I went there and looked for myself.
    Phil Langdon uses information from Kal Korff in his videos which itself is faked by Korff.
    There has been not one comment on the evidence posted up by myself and Bergheim and not only have you ignored it you somehow compare stating facts to preaching about religion.
    The only person who is blindly believing what they are reading on the internet is you. How have you made your deductions? How did you discover how Meier faked over 800 photographs and movie footage. Oh wait you saw a dean martin show... that explains the other 795 photographs, well done, wish I could have thought of that it would have saved me having to use my own brain to arrive at a different conclusion.
    How about instead of parroting on about the 5 photographs that are dodgy think about the hundreds of others that aren't and how they might have been done because any explanations given so far as to how he did it in the last 40 years don't add up. No don't bother ,go back to watching dean martin on youtube it's easier...better yet just totally ignore what I have just said and say the Phil langdon (who has never been to the locations) has proven them all fake because you read it on the internet ..case closed.
    You think you are frustrated.... this is like having a conversation with a revolving door.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    dyer,

    The Asket and Nera photos

    “We are the Pleiadians”, Meier was explaining to the people at the table. “We came from a cross between the Pleiadians and the humans beings from the earth.”

    Quote from LIGHT YEARS (1987). written by Gary Kinder.

    There are differences between us and them, such as they live longer, and they are on a higher level of evolution. But in look, we are similar. That was one of the reasons why problems occurred with regards to the Asket and Nera photos.

    The issue of lookalikes was raised to Billy early on. In fact it was put to his attention already when he took the photos, in July 1975. As well as four and a half month after the photos were taken, in the beginning of December 1975. This is the trail I found in the German contact notes.

    The photos were taken on Billy Meier’s trip through the universe which started on the 17 July 1975 This was contact 31. On this long trip lasting days, Billy also went all the way to the universe barrier, to the edge of our Universe. Here, at a certain point, the Plejaran mother ship created an energy tunnel, which allowed passage for them into the DAL universe, our sister universe.

    After passing through this artificial passage tunnel, created by generating enormous amount of energy, they then arrived into the DAL Universe where they travelled close up to a waiting space ship belonging to Asket’s people. When they arrived at the rendezvous-point, Semjase and Billy went down to the hangar in the Pejaran mother ship. Here they entered Semjase’s beam ship, which took them over to the waiting DAL-mother ship.

    Billy described this space ship as also being gigantic in size, hanging in space only a few hundred meters away. But the lock through which they flew in was smaller size. Smaller than the 100 x 100 meter lock opening of the Plejaran mother ship they just exited. When inside the DAL-mother ship Semjase parked the beam ship in a hall. They stepped out and walked into a room adjacent to this hall. It was here, in this room, Meier again met up with Asket. And it was also here he met Nera for the first time.

    Asket presented Nera as being her deputy (stand-in). She was the second-coordinator (Zweit-Koordinatorin). The word coordinator used in this context has to do with point navigation in space. Asket was the first-coordinator on board (Erst-Koordinatorin). The mothership was under command of a man named Stalor. He was not present. They only went to one room in this mother ship. They were not shown around.

    So it was here, while they were all gathering together for a meeting, that Billy asked if it was possible to take pictures of both Asket and Nera. Asket saw no problem in that. She explained that in regards to Semjase, as Billy already knew, a picture of her would jeopardize her security as she was still on duty on Earth.

    But as to themselves, Asket saw no problems in that, because they were not going to return to Earth in the near future. She raised two concerns. One being the quality of the pictures, due to energy radiation problems, which also had affected Billy’s film in the past. The other, being the fact that every human have a double somewhere. A person with a near identical look. Billy took the pictures of them anyway. He writes that as opposed to Semjase, who had her space suit on, Asket and Nera wore normal clothes.

    Source: Plejadisch-plejarische Kontaktberichte (2002), Gespräche, Block 1 page 276 to 285 (contact 31) Cross reference contact 31 translated by Wendelle Stevens from SEMJASE-KONTAKT-BERICHTE 1975 published in Message from the Pleiades (1979) page 283 to 339.

    Comments:
    Meier reported various electronic devises was carried by the extra-terrestrials around their belt. Also reported by witnesses such as Kalliope’s short encounter with Ptaah. She also reported seeing various electronic gadgets around his belt.

    This raises the question:

    Would there be a particular occasion when they would need to carry other devises than those around the belt?. Yes, I think so. And that device would a microphone. The type pilots and astronauts use. And I think an occasion when carrying a microphone would be of great benefit would be when piloting a mother ship. This would be a job which would include a lot of coordination, where voice communication would be needed.

    Internal communication
    between the 1st coordinator in the navigation control room and other departments on board. In a similar way to what happens on a cruise ship where for example the 1st officer at times has the need to speak with the 1st engineer in the engine room in order to coordinate movement of the ship.

    External communication
    Speak to pilots of their own beam ships being dispatched or coming in to the mothership.

    External communication
    Speak to other space ships around, such as in this case, when the Plejaran mothership approached and where there would be need to coordinate transfer of Semjase and Billy over to their ship.

    Asket and Nera carry the same work title, with the only difference that one of them carry a number one as in first, the other carry a number two as in second in front of her job title. It means they are rostered on shift which goes around the clock. When Asket is on duty, Nera is off. When Asket finishes her shift, Asket goes on duty to replace her as the coordinator. They are both capable of doing the same job.

    It would be likely that the one rostered on duty will carry the pilot-mike. That would be Asket. She carries the head microphone, while Nera carries none. At least none is clearly visible on the photos. Because she is off duty. The third person who can fully replace Asket and Nera in the navigation control room , whilst they are both meeting Meier and Semjase in a room down below, is either a third-coordinator, or the commander of the mother ship. A third-coordinator is not mentioned here, but a commander is. His name is Stalor. But he is not in the meeting, quite possibly because he had to relieve Asket, possibly because she was rostered on duty in the control room, but had to go downstairs together with Nera to attend the meeting. Asket is obviously planning to go back up and finish her shift as first- coordinator once the meeting with Meier and Semjase is over, hence she did not take the mike off but left it on during the meeting.

    This created a challenge for those who saw a need to falsify the photographs Meier took. Because in the end 60’s beginning 70’s it was not common for women singers to carry head mikes when performing. Today it is, but back then it was not. Hence they would have to find a substitute for the pilot-mike. That substitute became a hair lock since the two look-alikes dancers did not carry head mikes. Hence they would need to pick a frame where a hair lock came up looking shaped as a mike.

    This was also found. Perhaps on the other side, so the photo had to be mirrored. If not the mike was there, and on the correct side of the face, Meier would have become suspicious that the photograph was falsified. I think Meier knew Asket was carrying a pilot type mike in the meeting hence he would be looking for one in the photos. They could not include any make up, such as blue eye shadow. Semjase told Meier on other occasions that none of them use make up around the eyes. But that would be of no problems because the makeup the lookalike singers wore, such as blue eye shadow, could be deleted in a lab. The photos Meier got back from his photographer would have to closely resemble the colours, albeit distorted, that Meier thought he saw and photographed.

    It should be noted that their hair colour can change. The reason given why Semjase for a long time appeared with a red hair colour was due to medical reason, whereby an agent was inserted into a carrier substance mixed with a natural un-harmful type colorant which then would give a long term effect against cold and allergies etc. It is also mentioned around this that some of the Plejaran women do colour their hair for vanity reasons, but again with natural and un-harmful dyestuff. (Ref contact 248 3.Feb.94)

    The fact that the radiation blurred the colours and quality of the photos also helped the falsifiers as if things did not look quite right, it could be blamed on the distortion. Hence Billy, nor Ptaah were able to notice the minor changes. Only Asket did. She noticed the errors.

    Asket3.jpg

    Above:

    1991
    VERZEICHNIS authentischer Farb – Fotos (1991) (List of authentic Colour photographs)

    Three colour photographs listed with the number 109,110 and 111 of Asket and Nera but on all of them has the date 26.6.75 wrong. They were taken 17.7.75. Number 110 is the single photo of Asket. Text translated reads:

    ASKET and her friend NERA taken in the space ship of Asket in the DAL Universe, which we with Ptaah’s mothership visited (of unknown reasons did photos taken inside the space ships always become blurred.)


    Asket1.jpg

    Above

    1996
    Not only is the date 26.6.75 wrong but this photo of Asket is printed in mirror the book written by Billy Die Wahrheit über die Plejaden (1996) Billy Meier Druck: Verlag <Die Silberschnur>

    Asket5.jpg

    Above:

    1997
    Here is also the date 26.6.75 wrong. This is the colour photo Billy claim he got back from photograph Schmid back in 1975 which he still thought it was the original until 1998. When he became aware it was not, he continued to publish it as the look-alike of Asket due to the striking similarity with the real Asket. Notice the look-alike Michelle DellaFave has blue eyes and blue eye shadow, whilst Asket obviously has brown eyes and no blue make up around her eyes according to this photo. Published in the book written by Billy: Aus den Tiefen des Weltenraums…. Kontakte mit den Plejadiern/Plejaren by Eduard Meier (1997) Druck: Offset Druckerei

    Asket..jpg

    Above:

    On duty
    Look-alike First-coordinator Asket is wearing what looks to be a mike used by pilots.
    She is likely on shift as Billy and Semjase come to visit them. Wherefore the situation photo of her look-alike here seen would have to include the gadgets Asket wore in the real photo, a mike.
    Photo from: UFO contact from the Pleiades, A preliminary investigation report (1978).

    Asket4.jpg

    Above

    Off duty
    Look-alike Second-coordinator Nera. No head mike is visible. That could be because she is not rostered on duty. The situation photo of her look-alike would have to reflect what the real Nera was wearing in the original photo.
    Photo from: UFO contact from the Pleiades, A preliminary investigation report (1978)

    Asket_lookalike.jpg

    Above

    Asket look-alike Michelle DellaFave
    It would seem the hair-curl resembling a mike appears best on the left hand chin. So quite possibly the frame has been mirrored to appear on the right hand chin. (From the clip posted on you-tube below)





    So four and a half month after the photos of Asket and Nera were taken, and still before Meier went public as a contact person, he was advised by Ptaah that there were doubles of Asket and Nera in America.

    This became officially recorded in contact 39 dated 3rd of December 1975 as follows (Ref. Block 2, page 40) my translation above the original:

    Ptaah
    229. It already was a major exception that you was allowed to take photos Asket and Nera and we have, by the way in the meantime, in America, tracked down female Earth humans who look deceivingly similar to them and which interestingly enough also jointly work together .

    Billy
    Man, that is bad. But these women, the doubles of Asket and Nera, where are they?

    Ptaah
    230. In America
    231. I already said that.

    Billy
    Can you give me their addresses and mention further details about them?

    Ptaah
    232. That, I’d like not to do for certain reasons.

    Billy
    You are always so secretive.

    Ptaah
    233 In certain matters it has to be like that.

    German original

    229. Es war schon eine grosse Ausnahme, dass du von Asket und Nera Photos anfertigen durftest, wobei wir übrigens inzwischen in Amerika weibliche Erdenmenschen ausfindig gemacht haben, die ihnen täuschend ähnlich sehen und die interessanterweise ebenfalls in Gemeinschaftlichkeit zusammenarbeiten.

    Billy
    Männeken, das ist schade. Aber die Frauen, die Doppelgängerinnen von Asket und Nera, wo sind sie?

    Ptaah
    230. Im Lande Amerika.
    231. Das sagte ich aber schon.

    Billy
    Kannst du mir ihre Anschriften geben und nähere einzelheiten über sie nennen?

    Ptaah
    232. Das möchte ich aus bestimmten Gründen nicht.

    Billy
    Ihre seid immer so geheimnisvoll.

    Ptaah
    233 In gewissen Belangen muss das sein.


    Comments:
    In the contact notes it is frequently mentioned that surveillance and collecting data takes up a great deal of the extra-terrestrials time. As a minimum they would collect images from all open sources. Such as TV stations around the world. They have the advantage of being high and above, which would make it easy to record signals .Since the two lookalikes were performing in a TV show, their images would have already been stored in the extra-terrestrials data bank. So when Ptaah scanned Meiers original photo of Asket and Nera, the faces of the two American dancers showed up as lookalikes matches.

    It is also here logical that Ptaah did not wish to identify them with name or addresses etc, as Billy adversaries would then be able to seek them out and copy their images in order to frame Billy as a swindler.

    May 1998

    Contact 264 dated 14th of May 1998 is when the reference to this contact again comes up. Billy speaks with Ptaah and brings up the interview Korff and Luc Burgin had conducted with his ex-wife to be distributed a month or two later. He tells Ptaah that in this interview it is being claimed that he has recorded the photos of Asket and Nera from TV. That they are not Asket and Nera, but instead American lookalikes which Ptaah also specified in contact 39 not only did exist. But precisely as Ptaah then stated it (above), the two young women live in America, work together in the same job, and are even exact images of Asket and Nera

    The reply from Ptaah

    Ptaah the reminded Billy that on the 3rd of February 1985, when he and Quetzal visited him, the circumstances around these photographs were passed on to him. That he had got back false photographs, which did not show Asket and Nera.

    Billy replies that he has no recollection of that information being passed on to him. To which Ptaah replies that the reason why he forgot this would without doubt be due to his life-threatening condition at the time, which also was connected with part amnesia, consequently he no longer was able to remember many things. (Billy had a bad accident in 1982 and for many years after that he was in very bad health, unable to record contact notes in writing)

    Ptaah advised Billy that since it was not his fault, he should still publish the photos, but instead present them as American lookalikes of Asket and Nera

    The photographer Schmid had been forced to work for the socalled <Men in Black>.

    Ptaah states the reason why he uses the expression < Men in Black> for these black men, is because we refer to them as being such, using the same expression in UFO circles.

    Ptaah is obviously using this expression as he wish not to identify them.

    So these <Men in Black> forced photograph Schmid to make falsifications. By either falsifying the photos from base up or falsifying the photos Billy took by altering them.

    This happened several times in the beginning when Billy used the photographer Schmid to develop his film. His own originals were substituted with completely new or falsified films.

    This happened with the film roll containing the images of Asket and Nera . It was a film roll which Billy only months later got back from the photographer

    What these <Men in Black> did, was to search out Asket and Nera lookalikes in the the US, make photos of them, and afterwards the photos were processed by the photographer Schmid, who handed them back to Billy.

    Billy thought it was the originals he got back. Instead they were forged counterfeits of his real photos .

    Which is why Billy did not discover the swindle, nor did the extra-terrestrials discover it either straight away. It was first in the autumn of 1984 that they discovered it. Then Ptaah gave the photos to Asket because she wanted them. She then discovered the swindle.

    Consequently the Plejarans then checked it up and found that the <Men in Black> were behind it and that they used the photographer Schmid as a tool. He was forced to cooperate with them.

    Billy here adds the comment that photograph Schmid always came to him and picked up his film and negatives from his home, and he personally also delivered the processed the photos directly to Billy. Billy never got to know his address. One time he asked for it, Schmid’s excuse was that his wife was not to know that he came and went at Billy’s address.

    She had a very negative attitude towards Billy and became furious only hearing Billy’s name being mentioned. So that was his excuse for not giving his address to Billy. All he told Billy was that he came from Rheintal.

    Ptaah then advised Billy that Schmid passed away several years ago and it was a lie that he lived in Rheintal. And the real reason why he did not want to give Billy his address was because he was constrained by the <Men in Black> who seriously threatened him.

    Billy replied to Ptaah that he noticed that he always acted somewhat nervous. To which Ptaah replied that with good reason when one think of the <Black Men>.

    Ptaah then tells Billy that the <Men in Black>, which they are called because they always wear black clothing, have always had to their disposal undreamt-of possibilities, when viewed from what possibilities the normal citizen’s have. Wherefore it was easy for them to locate both of the young artists

    In fact these utterly unscrupulous men do not remain hidden, when they involve themselves in a case, Ptaah further states.

    The photos made in regards to the lookalikes, of which they, the Plejarans informed Billy about on the 3.February 1985 , were however not directly made with the young women, but copied from a show film. Which the “Men in Black” got hold of.

    This type of film is referred to as cabaret-film. Anyhow, single frames were copied from it, whereby the men together with photograph Schmid selected those frames which were most similar to Billy’s own photos of Asket and Nera. Which is why Billy was deceived.

    So the purpose of this was to fabricate certain situation- photos deceivingly similar to the photos Billy took of Asket and Nera so that Billy would distribute these false, or more precisely lookalike photos, in a normal way and sell them to those interested – simply as real photographs of Asket and Nera.

    And precisely that was the meaning of this, to one day set Billy up in a situation where he would be labelled a fraudster. Because in a calculating way it was based on that sooner or later somebody hostile to him would investigate these photos and would then get to the bottom of it with the inevitable consequence the aforementioned show film resp. cabaret film will be found and the false Asket-Nera- photos with the lookalikes in it would be known.

    This was further meant to count as evidence, in order so that Billy could be exposed as a purportedly fraudster. And to make the information he provided, as well as the information around his own person, not believable, in order to destroy his mission.

    So everything was already then, in the year 1975, thoroughly pre programmed by the <Men in Black> simply so that the corresponding picture sequences through their assistance would soon be found , what in the meantime is what also what ought to occur, and in the future Billy’s enemies will dig further into it, Ptaah here continued, in 1998.

    He then tells Billy that the enemies against him and his mission, without any doubt, is Earth humans. Which makes it further clear that the <Men in Black> he has been talking about are Earth humans as well.

    Billy then asks Ptaah the question; in which one of the murder attempts were the <Men in Black> responsible. To which Ptaah replies that out of the 15 murder attempts (1998) in truth 11 of them are tracing back to the <Men in Black>.

    (Source: Pejadisch-plejarische Kontaktberichte (2005) Block 8 contact 264 14 Mai 1998 Page 13 to 19)

    Comments:

    If Schmid was pressured by the <Men in Black> then it is likely Billy would be pressured by them too.

    Why did he print the wrong date on the photographs of Asket and Nera, and even allowed a mirror print of the photo of Asket where the mike is on the wrong side? Billy would know the day when contact 31 took place, when he took the photographs of Asket and Nera. A day Semjase opens up with the words “Today is your big day”, the 17 th of July 1975. The day of his great space journey.

    Stevens translation of the first print edition of contact 31 in 1978 clearly states the photos were taken during this space journey which started July 17th 1975. Same in the 2002 print edition of the German contact notes. Also there it is stated that the photos were taken during contact 31 on the 17th of july 1975. But instead Billy printed that the photos were taken on the 26th of June 1975. A day no official contact took place. In fact the day before, on June 25th, contact 27 took place (at 14.37 pm lasted a few hours), the day after, June 27th contact 28th took place.
    No contact is recorded to have taken place on the 26th of June 1975.

    http://meiersaken.info/Asket_Nera.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    There's an almost cult-like belief in Meier & his story.
    So, for at least 18 years, from 1983 to 2001, these photographs of "Asket" and "Nera" were promoted and published, multiple times, as being his Plejaran extra-terrestrial contacts, but then in 2001 these same photos were now described as "malicious hoaxes" and the only thing that changed was that the apparently original source material, The Dean Martin Variety Show, was released on home video.

    Source


    So, sinister Men In Black & a governmental cover up conspiracy? Or one mans hoax exposed?

    Also, the Independent Investigations Group has a lovely little site which explains all the aspects of the story, for anyone outside of Meier's cult that is - http://www.iigwest.org/investigations/meier/

    Now, I'm off to Tunguska to investigate the event that happened there in 1908, anyone can read about it & dismiss it but I believe it was the core of an alien craft imploding, resulting in a small black hole. The asteroid story is merely put out by mib to keep the sheep happy


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    EnterNow wrote: »
    There's an almost cult-like belief in Meier & his story.



    Source


    So, sinister Men In Black & a governmental cover up conspiracy? Or one mans hoax exposed?

    Also, the Independent Investigations Group has a lovely little site which explains all the aspects of the story, for anyone outside of Meier's cult that is - http://www.iigwest.org/investigations/meier/

    Now, I'm off to Tunguska to investigate the event that happened there in 1908, anyone can read about it & dismiss it but I believe it was the core of an alien craft imploding, resulting in a small black hole. The asteroid story is merely put out by mib to keep the sheep happy

    There is an almost ostrich like head in the sand ability to ignore anything in the Meier case that doesn't have to do with Dean Martin in the the general population.
    Many of IIG's theories have been proven wrong , and yet they refuse to update their information... Myself and others have caught them out lying about information on the metal analysis videos among other things but they refuse to change their statements on the websites. Why... I don't know, maybe they can't accept that they are wrong about anything because it means they have to accept that there is something they can't explain about the case. This is the usual frame of mind of most people who come across the Meier material. It's just too difficult for them to grasp. Or maybe they are like Kal Korff who knowingly falsify evidence because they are basically nucking futs.


    Bergheim are you living in Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    This is the usual frame of mind of most people who come across the Meier material. It's just too difficult for them to grasp. Or maybe they are like Kal Korff who knowingly falsify evidence because they are basically nucking futs.

    Yeah, it's the skeptics here who are 'nucking futs' all right.

    I havn't read the metal analysis section yet, will do so shortly :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭squonk


    Let's assume that Meier was aboard the vessel in the DAL universe and did take the pictures as mentioned. If so, I've one very simple question.

    How come the first and second navigators are both sporting 60s-70s hairdos? You wouldn't really find a woman with a hirdo like that nowadays. Were they having a 70s revival in the DAL universe or is our fashion just so damn good that it's followed not just in our universe, but in others too?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    squonk wrote: »
    Let's assume that Meier was aboard the vessel in the DAL universe and did take the pictures as mentioned. If so, I've one very simple question.

    I've another, if this Alien society was permitting Meier to take & document hard evidence...& were also passing us on a message through him...why not just announce themselves to the world? Why all the cloak & dagger abduction sh1te?

    For fear of mass panic? Surely they could at least agreed with world leaders to even stage first contact in a safe way...i.e "We've made radio communication with a race of friendly beings who are light years away" & gradually build it up from there?

    Why risk such a very important message by giving it to one man & then hiding? Like all hoaxes, it doesn't add up. Yes you can debate photos, trees, metals etc till the cows come home...none of it proves anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭squonk


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I've another, if this Alien society was permitting Meier to take & document hard evidence...& were also passing us on a message through him...why not just announce themselves to the world? Why all the cloak & dagger abduction sh1te?

    For fear of mass panic? Surely they could at least agreed with world leaders to even stage first contact in a safe way...i.e "We've made radio communication with a race of friendly beings who are light years away" & gradually build it up from there?

    Why risk such a very important message by giving it to one man & then hiding? Like all hoaxes, it doesn't add up. Yes you can debate photos, trees, metals etc till the cows come home...none of it proves anything.

    Well I can see the point of not just landing, handing a few ray guns and space ships over to people and saying, 'Ok lads, get a load of these'. I am very much open to them not wanting to greatly affect the evolution of this species technologically and you only have to watch Star Trek or any other Sci Fi series to make sense of that.

    I really do agree with you though about the evidence and the whole fact that it's like a pin point of light in a dark region of space. Only one guy got this message in recent times. Just one. It's now almost 40 years since some early contacts so even if they were thinking long term, you'd reckon it was about time they made further contact with a new generation. Also, if they were thinking long term why not just say 'Hey, you know what, it's the 70's for them. We know that in about 20-30 years they're going to go digital and technology will have improved so much. Right now we're at the zenith of analog photo and video development. Let's wait a while until the digital age becomes established and then we'll have better images and a lot more clarity'.

    Here's another point... why didn't they provide him with a digital camera and the means to get pictures from it? It wouldn't be a stretch to provide technology to allow him to product film representations of the images, and they'd be a lot clearer. It seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for some questionable and some downright blurry photos.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    squonk wrote: »
    Well I can see the point of not just landing, handing a few ray guns and space ships over to people and saying, 'Ok lads, get a load of these'. I am very much open to them not wanting to greatly affect the evolution of this species technologically and you only have to watch Star Trek or any other Sci Fi series to make sense of that.

    True, but one may argue that the very act of abducting a person, showing him technology not yet developed by man, teaching him about the need for spirituality, & passing on a warning to this persons race is interfering in the natural path of evolution no?

    In Star Trek lore, the Prime Directive is the guideline that a species won't be made aware of what's 'out there' until they have reached a sufficient development level [light speed]. That is vastly different to the notion that these aliens don't want to interfere but still want to guide us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭squonk


    EnterNow wrote: »
    True, but one may argue that the very act of abducting a person, showing him technology not yet developed by man, teaching him about the need for spirituality, & passing on a warning to this persons race is interfering in the natural path of evolution no?

    In Star Trek lore, the Prime Directive is the guideline that a species won't be made aware of what's 'out there' until they have reached a sufficient development level [light speed]. That is vastly different to the notion that these aliens don't want to interfere but still want to guide us.

    Yeah you have a point and, if they do want to guide us, then the best thing to surely do is to provide unequivocal evidence that, yes, they are out there and they possess more advanced technology than our own. I would say however that if I was to go back to the time of cave dwellers and wanted to guide them, I'd probably select a small few to diseminate a message rather than turning up with my technology to talk to them en masse in case they decided to adopt me as their god. In this case though I don't see this happening really at this point in human evolution. I would be careful to pick several contacts for the dispersal of my messages though. After all, you only have to look at a case like Galileo to see that it's tough for one man to stand up to intense public scrutiny. Were there 10 or twelve Billy Meiers from other ethnic backgrounds and other parts of the world then I think the message would stand a better chance of being heard, and of course there'd also be alternative photographic sources to choose from which would, no doubt, show Meiers photos as being 100% authentic and unquestionable proof that others exist who are wiser than ourselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    squonk wrote: »
    Let's assume that Meier was aboard the vessel in the DAL universe and did take the pictures as mentioned. If so, I've one very simple question.

    How come the first and second navigators are both sporting 60s-70s hairdos? You wouldn't really find a woman with a hirdo like that nowadays. Were they having a 70s revival in the DAL universe or is our fashion just so damn good that it's followed not just in our universe, but in others too?

    It is not uncommon for women to have same hair style today. The photos simply show women with long hair. It is not a hair style that only was around in the 1960’s or 1970’s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 bergheim


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I've another, if this Alien society was permitting Meier to take & document hard evidence...& were also passing us on a message through him...why not just announce themselves to the world? Why all the cloak & dagger abduction sh1te?

    For fear of mass panic? Surely they could at least agreed with world leaders to even stage first contact in a safe way...i.e "We've made radio communication with a race of friendly beings who are light years away" & gradually build it up from there?

    Why risk such a very important message by giving it to one man & then hiding? Like all hoaxes, it doesn't add up. Yes you can debate photos, trees, metals etc till the cows come home...none of it proves anything.

    Well, say an extraterrestrial race had a meeting with some important politicians and told them here is our message, go on live TV and deliver it on the 7 PM news. Tell your people that none of your religions got it right, here is how things really are....., you are way too overpopulated and need to do something with it There are lots of humans in space, some very similar to your selves. etc

    What do you think will happen?

    I can guarantee you. You won’t even know the meeting took place.

    Hence, I can see the logic that they would instead select a normal individual.
    A normal person would be less corrupt. They would stand better chance that the messages at least would be written down and delivered to those interested.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    bergheim wrote: »
    Well, say an extraterrestrial race had a meeting with some important politicians and told them here is our message, go on live TV and deliver it on the 7 PM news. Tell your people that none of your religions got it right, here is how things really are....., you are way too overpopulated and need to do something with it There are lots of humans in space, some very similar to your selves. etc

    What do you think will happen?

    At the very least, it'll be the same result as telling one man. These 'aliens' aren't stupid, they know one mans voice is never going to be heard amongst all the other liars/hoaxes/doubters/non believers. The whole exercise would have been a waste of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    EnterNow wrote: »
    At the very least, it'll be the same result as telling one man. These 'aliens' aren't stupid, they know one mans voice is never going to be heard amongst all the other liars/hoaxes/doubters/non believers. The whole exercise would have been a waste of time.

    Except it was heard by millions of people all over the world in the 1970's and 1980's which started people talking about the case, people are still talking about it today, I've spoken to people all over the world that have read the information and the message that he was given has been written down word for word in a number of books. Here we are in little old Ireland talking about it now fourty years later. There are well over 20,000 pages of information recorded by Meier and he has written a number of books based on the teachings and knowledge he was given and not one word of it has bee changed from the original. Most of the information is freely available on the internet to anyone who wishes to read it. Do we need someone to land on the white house lawn and point a giant finger at the books and scream READ THIS YOU IDIOTS?? Or do people have to find it and think about it and understand it themselves. Have any of you even read anything about the spiritual parts of Meiers material? The changing of a planetary mindset from one of barbarous religious idiocy to one of a more peaceful spiritual nature does not happen over night. and according to Meiers information it will take us about 800 years to get back on the right track.
    There actually seem to be some sort of discussion going on here, goody!

    Forget the photos and Dean Martin for a minute.

    Ok lets say for the purposes of this discussion that there was some sort of interference in human evolution thousands of years ago and by that I mean the natural course of spiritual understanding as opposed to the multitude of crazy religions we have today.
    Lets say your ancestors were responsible for it but you now are bound by your own laws in that you can only interact in minimal form in human affairs...

    How would you go about trying to repair the damage??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Except it was heard by millions of people all over the world in the 1970's and 1980's which started people talking about the case, people are still talking about it today, I've spoken to people all over the world that have read the information and the message that he was given has been written down word for word in a number of books. Here we are in little old Ireland talking about it now fourty years later. There are well over 20,000 pages of information recorded by Meier and he has written a number of books based on the teachings and knowledge he was given and not one word of it has bee changed from the original. Most of the information is freely available on the internet to anyone who wishes to read it.

    I could say the same about the Bible, over two thousand years old, still being talked about today & none of it has been disproved. Just because a story catches on, & has lots of literature/discussion etc, doesn't make it any more real.

    Do we need someone to land on the white house lawn and point a giant finger at the books and scream READ THIS YOU IDIOTS?? Or do people have to find it and think about it and understand it themselves. Have any of you even read anything about the spiritual parts of Meiers material? The changing of a planetary mindset from one of barbarous religious idiocy to one of a more peaceful spiritual nature does not happen over night. and according to Meiers information it will take us about 800 years to get back on the right track.
    There actually seem to be some sort of discussion going on here, goody!

    Why so defensive? No, it wouldn't take full disclosure for me to believe in it...but I would need something real, something tangible. Questionable photos/stories etc are not going to convince me. I need more than just one mans word.

    To be fair to you, I do find the whole thing interesting & I would like to be as versed in the story as you are...I just find the available evidence offputting. I know you hate people going on about the photos, but look at it from the laymans point of view...what's the point investing the time & effort to really test this case...when the immediate evidence looks so bad. Surely you can see where people are coming from?

    Ok lets say for the purposes of this discussion that there was some sort of interference in human evolution thousands of years ago and by that I mean the natural course of spiritual understanding as opposed to the multitude of crazy religions we have today.
    Lets say your ancestors were responsible for it but you now are bound by your own laws in that you can only interact in minimal form in human affairs...

    How would you go about trying to repair the damage??

    I don't understand what you mean...try again :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭squonk


    Except it was heard by millions of people all over the world in the 1970's and 1980's which started people talking about the case, people are still talking about it today, I've spoken to people all over the world that have read the information and the message that he was given has been written down word for word in a number of books. Here we are in little old Ireland talking about it now fourty years later. There are well over 20,000 pages of information recorded by Meier and he has written a number of books based on the teachings and knowledge he was given and not one word of it has bee changed from the original. Most of the information is freely available on the internet to anyone who wishes to read it. Do we need someone to land on the white house lawn and point a giant finger at the books and scream READ THIS YOU IDIOTS?? Or do people have to find it and think about it and understand it themselves. Have any of you even read anything about the spiritual parts of Meiers material? The changing of a planetary mindset from one of barbarous religious idiocy to one of a more peaceful spiritual nature does not happen over night. and according to Meiers information it will take us about 800 years to get back on the right track.
    There actually seem to be some sort of discussion going on here, goody!

    Forget the photos and Dean Martin for a minute.

    Ok lets say for the purposes of this discussion that there was some sort of interference in human evolution thousands of years ago and by that I mean the natural course of spiritual understanding as opposed to the multitude of crazy religions we have today.
    Lets say your ancestors were responsible for it but you now are bound by your own laws in that you can only interact in minimal form in human affairs...

    How would you go about trying to repair the damage??

    I would still select a number of people to distribute the message to. On a practical level, look at the odds. I can only speak for Catholicism as it's the religion I'm familiar with. That started off with a guy basically doing the equivalent of landing on the White House lawn 2000 years ago. Like Meier, everything he did was written down word for word, dutifully recorded by his disciples. What happened next however is that others begun to interpret what was written and varying viewpoints started to emerge. Even 800 years later there were quite a few differences beginning to emerge amongst various groups. Today however the original message is still there, though blurred by time and translation but the overall community of those who follow the original message is relatively strong.

    Imagine for a moment that things had been different and Jesus had appeared as a series of apparitions revealing a particular philosophy to, lets say, Peter. Peter we will assume, took down all of the teachings word for word and even made some drawings of the apparitions and described in great details the circumstances those apparitions took place. Let's assume that he was able to be as detailed as Billy Meier. Imagine too that those with vested interests did their best to discredit Peter and his work and a lot of controversy ensued at the time. Now lets move forward four or five generations. Who remembers Peter or the core nature of the message? I believe that he's now seen as a bit of an eccentric with a strange belief in a message he was shown by some etherial being but that so much controversy existed at the time that it is doubtful whether what he said was actually credible. Would Peter have remained important for the subsequent 800 years it might take for the message to take root? I'd highly doubt it.

    Now, let's assume that instead of appearing to only just Peter, Jesus had instead decided to appear to a group of people from various parts of the world but that his one stipulation was that they recorded all of the meetings as accurately as was possible for them. In this case I think there is a much higher probability that the overall message would have stood the test of time. It might not gain the popularity that Christianity did but it would nonetheless be a strong force as multiple similar accounts would force the realisation that there was something more to what happened. In the case of Christianity it took a guy roaming around Gallilee for three years performing out of this world feats to have the whole concept stick. Even now in the noughties, a mere 40 years later, if somebody had asked me this time last year who Billy Meier was, I'd have shaken my head. An immense amount of people neither know nor care about the Billy Meier controversy. I find it very unlikely that this is the outcome an alien race were going for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭tonybodhran


    Good points, ill respond in a bit when i have some time to write this evening.


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