What's going on over there??? - See mod warning post 194 BEFORE posting!

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 10:32am #1

These news reports are almost on a weekly basis now 'Remarkably stupid' Irishman in Australia became stuck in roof while trying to sneak into nightclub

Speaking to a friend who is Australia the past 4 years, he told me that he's almost embarrassed to be Irish. He said that he's been in restaurants that Irish have started food fights, hostels that have been turned upside down, falling around Sydney like drunken buffoons fighting with one another and then making up five minutes later.

Are the Irish really that bad out there?

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-01-2015 10:34am

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

These news reports are almost on a weekly basis now 'Remarkably stupid' Irishman in Australia became stuck in roof while trying to sneak into nightclub

Speaking to a friend who is Australia the past 4 years, he told me that he's almost embarrassed to be Irish. He said that he's been in restaurants that Irish have started food fights, hostels that have been turned upside down, falling around Sydney like drunken buffoons fighting with one another and then making up five minutes later.

Are the Irish really that bad out there?

You would be surprised how many Aussies do the same thing in Dublin/London etc

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 10:43am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You would be surprised how many Aussies do the same thing in Dublin/London etc

Is that really an excuse for the bad behavior of the Irish people that go out there?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen them in the Irish courts or National newspapers?

jamesdiver · 20-01-2015 10:45am

Its not that bad.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2015 10:53am

It's natural enough I'd say. Young people leave home and have to run their own lives for the first time. They have less people telling them what to do and they are more likely to do stupid stuff for a while at least.

People who emigrate are slightly more inclined to be risk takers (hence emigrating). You won't hear about the people who have set up small businesses or take risks that pay off.

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-01-2015 11:05am

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Is that really an excuse for the bad behavior of the Irish people that go out there?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen them in the Irish courts or National newspapers?

No it's not an excuse, It's pointing out that every nation has it's idiots and young people away from home will sometimes act the ****.

20-01-2015 11:21am

typical aussies, remarkably stupid IRISHMAN! he's just stupid full stop. the Irishman part whoever put that in is just being a dick!

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 11:25am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's natural enough I'd say. Young people leave home and have to run their own lives for the first time. They have less people telling them what to do and they are more likely to do stupid stuff for a while at least.

People who emigrate are slightly more inclined to be risk takers (hence emigrating). You won't hear about the people who have set up small businesses or take risks that pay off.

Natural enough to get stuck in an air conditioning vent, natural enough to punch your brother in the back of the head and put him into a coma, natural enough set a Christmas tree on fire?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 11:28am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No it's not an excuse, It's pointing out that every nation has it's idiots and young people away from home will sometimes act the ****.

Judging by the Newspapers and court appearances it appears our population has a disproportionately high number of these people.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2015 11:32am

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Natural enough to get stuck in an air conditioning vent, natural enough to punch your brother in the back of the head and put him into a coma, natural enough set a Christmas tree on fire?

Yes. Those things count as stupid Stuff and my point was that people away from home will do more stupid stuff, more frequently.

Batgurl · 20-01-2015 11:34am

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Natural enough to get stuck in an air conditioning vent, natural enough to punch your brother in the back of the head and put him into a coma, natural enough set a Christmas tree on fire?

I have an Aussie mate who proudly tells the story of how he required 6 emergency service crew plus the guards and a host of onlookers after he jumped in the river on Australia day in galway. Idiots are everywhere.

The reason your hearing the stories more here now is cause it's silly season for the media in AU. Parliament is out, schools and colleges are on holidays and loads of people are still on their summer break. Basically they have to make the news so they pick the most ridiculous stories.

Irish media experience the same phenomenon in August every year.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-01-2015 11:36am

rusty cole wrote: »

typical aussies, remarkably stupid IRISHMAN! he's just stupid full stop. the Irishman part whoever put that in is just being a dick!

I just have to check that you realise you complained that they drew attention to his nationality, by calling them 'typical aussies'?

Maybe my sarcasm detector is busted

aido79 · 20-01-2015 11:51am

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Judging by the Newspapers and court appearances it appears our population has a disproportionately high number of these people.

It probably works out to be one in every 10,000 when you consider how many Irish are in Australia..

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 12:02pm

aido79 wrote: »

It probably works out to be one in every 10,000 when you consider how many Irish are in Australia..

That would equate to about 15 million Irish people living in Australia.

catbear · 20-01-2015 2:15pm

They're just trying to fit in.

Zambia · 20-01-2015 2:30pm

I met an Irish girl today doing a truly ****ing thankless job in a thankless place for a thankless firm. One of several.

However for every one of these idiots getting headlines there are hundreds doing us proud.

aido79 · 20-01-2015 2:54pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

That would equate to about 15 million Irish people living in Australia.

Which would mean they're has been 1500 cases of badly behaving Irish here..

jamesdiver · 20-01-2015 4:32pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Judging by the Newspapers and court appearances it appears our population has a disproportionately high number of these people.

I'm glad you have the time to read every Australian newspaper front to back to be able to come to conclusions like this. Do you live here? It's really not that bad, for the most part Irish people are working hard, integrating with the community and making the most of their lives. I've not heard a single Australian say a bad thing about an individual case over here and for the most part people are sympathetic to the two brothers on the East coast and even the horrible Aussie media are changing their tone in the reporting of this case (in my opinion anyways).

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 4:45pm

jamesdiver wrote: »

I'm glad you have the time to read every Australian newspaper front to back to be able to come to conclusions like this. Do you live here? It's really not that bad, for the most part Irish people are working hard, integrating with the community and making the most of their lives. I've not heard a single Australian say a bad thing about an individual case over here and for the most part people are sympathetic to the two brothers on the East coast and even the horrible Aussie media are changing their tone in the reporting of this case (in my opinion anyways).

I'm glad you're glad.

As for the two brothers, What has changed in the way the Australian media is reporting the case, have some of the facts changed?

jamesdiver · 20-01-2015 4:49pm

None of the facts changed. When it first happened the media hyped it up along the lines of a "king punch", the way they usually report assaults here. After a few days they started showing interviews with the father they seemed to drop some of the dramatic wording and it came across as more sympathetic, for example calling it a more simple unfortunate brotherly tiff than an unprovoked punch from behind. That's my opinion based on the odd news report I see.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-01-2015 5:09pm

jamesdiver wrote: »

None of the facts changed. When it first happened the media hyped it up along the lines of a "king punch", the way they usually report assaults here. After a few days they started showing interviews with the father they seemed to drop some of the dramatic wording and it came across as more sympathetic, for example calling it a more simple unfortunate brotherly tiff than an unprovoked punch from behind. That's my opinion based on the odd news report I see.

Well I'm glad you have the time to sit up all night watching those news reports.

jamesdiver · 20-01-2015 6:52pm

Good man yourself.

mikom · 20-01-2015 6:55pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Speaking to a friend who is Australia the past 4 years, he told me that he's almost embarrassed to be Irish. He said that he's been in restaurants that Irish have started food fights, hostels that have been turned upside down, falling around Sydney like drunken buffoons fighting with one another and then making up five minutes later.

Ask him has he ever been in a Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney?
There are worse things than drunken antics.

catbear · 20-01-2015 8:00pm

mikom wrote: »

Ask him has he ever been in a Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney?
There are worse things than drunken antics.

Reminds me of the aussie who hijacked an aer lingus flight to find out the third secret of Fatima!

aido79 · 20-01-2015 11:52pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

These news reports are almost on a weekly basis now 'Remarkably stupid' Irishman in Australia became stuck in roof while trying to sneak into nightclub

Speaking to a friend who is Australia the past 4 years, he told me that he's almost embarrassed to be Irish. He said that he's been in restaurants that Irish have started food fights, hostels that have been turned upside down, falling around Sydney like drunken buffoons fighting with one another and then making up five minutes later.

Are the Irish really that bad out there?

Ever been to Temple Bar? Or to any town in Ireland with a nightclub on a Saturday night? You really sound like a guy who doesn't get out much and doesn't know what he's talking about. Have you ever been to Australia?

ArseBurger · 21-01-2015 2:36am

I'm embarrassed to be Irish regularly here. Due to drunken fools being rowdy and/or fighting. It gives us a bad name over here as we are associated by citizenship.
In reality, it is usually 'packers over on the piss for a year that don't give a **** and probably act like assholes in Ireland too. However, that doesn't help Irish people in Australia who have settled or are in the process of doing so.

My general advice to drunk Paddies who approach me in the pub or at events asking if I can get them a job or how to 'scam a visa', etc... Go home. You're not ready for Australia or wanted here.

AngryHippie · 21-01-2015 3:06am

ArseBurger wrote: »

I'm embarrassed to be Irish regularly here. Due to drunken fools being rowdy and/or fighting. It gives us a bad name over here as we are associated by citizenship.
In reality, it is usually 'packers over on the piss for a year that don't give a **** and probably act like assholes in Ireland too. However, that doesn't help Irish people in Australia who have settled or are in the process of doing so.

My general advice to drunk Paddies who approach me in the pub or at events asking if I can get them a job or how to 'scam a visa', etc... Go home. You're not ready for Australia or wanted here.

I haven't encountered any in a good while now, maybe I'm not really moving in the same circles anymore. Even when I was over here as a backpacker, the crowd I knew weren't too bad. pi$$heads for sure, but rarely rowdy, hardly ever arrested, there was one incident where some one had a a bit of a rah rah with the cops...until they were politely reminded that its not a Garda they were talking to and the next step was pepper spray or a zap of the shock stick.
There were only a few occasions when I was a bit ashamed, and I usually let them know it shortly afterwards.

That said, I did have a few nights out in Sydney before moving to QLD when there were ridiculous fights (Peter Griffin-vs-Chicken brawls) but I've seen Aussies at the exact same, just not in the Irish pubs, and not before closing time.

Either way, I don't feel ashamed of my nationality because of a few d1ckheads. There is no shortage of them, the world over, the difference is ours have passports.

ArseBurger · 21-01-2015 3:21am

The last time I saw it was Sunday. In a place where we're usually pretty sheltered from the transient backpacker crowd. Ten plus boozed up Irish taking the piss. They eventually got thrown out and ended up getting taxis. One of which was entered by an idiot diving head first through the rear window. Cue much anger and consternation when the, now five, people in the taxi were refused service. Poor driver was lashed with verbal abuse. About half of which were racial slurs.

Like I said, rarely proud.

mandrake04 · 21-01-2015 3:52am

mikom wrote: »

Ask him has he ever been in a Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney?
There are worse things than drunken antics.

Trying to figure this post out, I've been in a Lindt cafe and never witnessed any bafoonery. Unless you are trying to make some idiotic tasteless remark about comparing the terrorist incident which two people lost their lives to a bunch of clowns on tour.

Typical thread of idiots defending other idiots, just because they are Irish doesn't make them less of an idiot than any other nationality.... idiots are idiots no matter where they come from.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 11:21am

aido79 wrote: »

Ever been to Temple Bar? Or to any town in Ireland with a nightclub on a Saturday night? You really sound like a guy who doesn't get out much and doesn't know what he's talking about. Have you ever been to Australia?

So you think that getting stuck in an air vent, food fights in restaurants and turning hostels upside down is all part and parcel of getting out and about?

Do you think this is acceptable behavior?

Why are posters on this thread making excuses for bad behavior?

mandrake04 · 21-01-2015 1:03pm

Here's one that wasn't reported in the papers.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fypfmr062a9zyar/2GB.wav?dl=0

Sure it's just a bit of craic

El_Duderino 09 · 21-01-2015 1:05pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

So you think that getting stuck in an air vent, food fights in restaurants and turning hostels upside down is all part and parcel of getting out and about?

Do you think this is acceptable behavior?

Why are posters on this thread making excuses for bad behavior?

Explaining and excusing are not the same thing.

Saying Something is likely to happen is not the same as saying it should happen.

You're not accepting explanations of the behaviour. So what do you think is going on OP?

aido79 · 21-01-2015 1:38pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

So you think that getting stuck in an air vent, food fights in restaurants and turning hostels upside down is all part and parcel of getting out and about?

Do you think this is acceptable behavior?

Why are posters on this thread making excuses for bad behavior?

I never said it was acceptable behavior. I was implying that people do stupid things when alcohol is consumed regardless of nationality or location. Your attitude seems to be that these idiots are in the majority rather than the minority amongst the Irish over here. The Irish media likes to dramatise it and make it sound worse than it is and you are one of the people who falls for the hype.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 1:52pm

aido79 wrote: »

I never said it was acceptable behavior. I was implying that people do stupid things when alcohol is consumed regardless of nationality or location. Your attitude seems to be that these idiots are in the majority rather than the minority amongst the Irish over here. The Irish media likes to dramatise it and make it sound worse than it is and you are one of the people who falls for the hype.

So what has any of that got to do with whether I have ever been in Temple Bar or on a night out in any town in Ireland?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 1:54pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Explaining and excusing are not the same thing.

Saying Something is likely to happen is not the same as saying it should happen.

You're not accepting explanations of the behaviour. So what do you think is going on OP?

I think you are confusing an explanation with an excuse. An explanation is highlighting a fact whereas an excuse is a justification of that fact. What happened on this forum is as follows:

OP: Some Irish people are behaving badly in Australia which is being highlighted in the media and Australian courts

Posters: They're young and abroad and therefore more likely to be more vulnerable meaning they're behaviour is actually a cry for help, something something. You don't know what you're talking about, have you ever been on a night out in Temple Bar?

aido79 · 21-01-2015 2:23pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

So what has any of that got to do with whether I have ever been in Temple Bar or on a night out in any town in Ireland?

Ok I'll try a different approach...but you seem to have formed your own opinion so don't think it matters what me or anyone else on here says. Young people, both those abroad and those in Ireland, do stupid things when they are drinking. If this had've happened in Ireland it probably wouldn't have got the same publicity. Most Australians wouldn't even have heard about this story but the Irish media and Facebook highlight this kind of thing and make it sound worse than it is.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 2:41pm

aido79 wrote: »

Ok I'll try a different approach...but you seem to have formed your own opinion so don't think it matters what me or anyone else on here says. Young people, both those abroad and those in Ireland, do stupid things when they are drinking. If this had've happened in Ireland it probably wouldn't have got the same publicity. Most Australians wouldn't even have heard about this story but the Irish media and Facebook highlight this kind of thing and make it sound worse than it is.

The means of reportage is irrelevant, we can only base our opinions on what the courts decide.

Why do you consider alcohol to be a mitigating factor for accepting responsibility? If a woman robbed a bank or a man beats up his wife while drunk should they receive a reduced sentence?

aido79 · 21-01-2015 2:53pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

The means of reportage is irrelevant, we can only base our opinions on what the courts decide.

Why do you consider alcohol to be a mitigating factor for accepting responsibility? If a woman robbed a bank or a man beats up his wife while drunk should they receive a reduced sentence?

I give up..anyone else want to try?:-P

El_Duderino 09 · 21-01-2015 3:16pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

I think you are confusing an explanation with an excuse. An explanation is highlighting a fact whereas an excuse is a justification of that fact. What happened on this forum is as follows:

OP: Some Irish people are behaving badly in Australia which is being highlighted in the media and Australian courts

Posters: They're young and abroad and therefore more likely to be more vulnerable meaning they're behaviour is actually a cry for help, something something. You don't know what you're talking about, have you ever been on a night out in Temple Bar?

Has anyone said the part in bold?

If you had read the post you quoted, you would realise this is exactly what I said regarding explanation and excuse.

OP: Some Irish people are behaving badly in Australia which is being highlighted in the media and Australian courts.

My EXPLANATION is that they are young, living far from their traditional authority figures. They are likely to be living with others in similar situations like in a hostel. They are likely to have few, if any, older people in their social group. Nobody to tell them to cop on, stop drinking and go to sleep, no body is worried about their reputation with the locals.

When I was young 13/14 and was acting the moggot someone would say 'I know your mother' (she would be embarrassed if she found out) and that was enough to keep me in line for years.

That does not EXCUSE their behaviour, it only tries to EXPLAIN it.

Those people who did those stupid things will be dealt with under Australian law and rightly so

What exactly is your point? Do you think the Irish are more likely to get involved in that kind of behaviour?

catbear · 21-01-2015 3:33pm

Plenty of nationalities have their young pups deported, Irish media picks up on the Irish cases.
The locals outshine our best efforts of mayhem and chaos.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 3:36pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Has anyone said the part in bold?

If you had read the post you quoted, you would realise this is exactly what I said regarding explanation and excuse.

OP: Some Irish people are behaving badly in Australia which is being highlighted in the media and Australian courts.

My EXPLANATION is that they are young, living far from their traditional authority figures. They are likely to be living with others in similar situations like in a hostel. They are likely to have few, if any, older people in their social group. Nobody to tell them to cop on, stop drinking and go to sleep, no body is worried about their reputation with the locals.

When I was young 13/14 and was acting the moggot someone would say 'I know your mother' (she would be embarrassed if she found out) and that was enough to keep me in line for years.

That does not EXCUSE their behaviour, it only tries to EXPLAIN it.

Those people who did those stupid things will be dealt with under Australian law and rightly so

What exactly is your point? Do you think the Irish are more likely to get involved in that kind of behaviour?

So the reason is that their mammy isn't there to tell them what to do and make their sandwiches for them? You're making the analogy between your fourteen year old self versus adult men and women backpacking around Australia as some type of explanation???

El_Duderino 09 · 21-01-2015 4:09pm

Your characture of my post suggests you can't fully comprehend it.

I'll hold your hand and connect the dots: traditional means of regulating behaviour such as fear of letting your family down being caught doing something stupid. This leads to regulating behaviour along with a series of other factors. Moving far far away from you family and not having a lot of those social norms/restrictions in place means that people reevaluate and find new social norms

My point is this. If you send a cross section of young people to Australia where they will live in a totally different environment where social norms are set by their peer group, you will end up with something like you have heard about with the Irish.

I'm saying people will do things they wouldn't normally do under those circumstances. I could introduce you to psychological constructs like Invincibility fallacy, Social norms, group think, but I think that would be too subtle for your taste.

Maybe we should just all agree that those Irish getting in trouble are all Scumbags,. Or since you strike me as a tabloid reading chap, "Boozed up Paddys Biff, Bonk and Bash their way through OZ".

Maybe you're not able to hold 2 conflicting thoughts in your mind at once. I can explain their actions, I do not excuse their actions.

What exactly is your point?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 4:49pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Your characture of my post suggests you can't fully comprehend it.

I'll hold your hand and connect the dots: traditional means of regulating behaviour such as fear of letting your family down being caught doing something stupid. This leads to regulating behaviour along with a series of other factors. Moving far far away from you family and not having a lot of those social norms/restrictions in place means that people reevaluate and find new social norms

My point is this. If you send a cross section of young people to Australia where they will live in a totally different environment where social norms are set by their peer group, you will end up with something like you have heard about with the Irish.

I'm saying people will do things they wouldn't normally do under those circumstances. I could introduce you to psychological constructs like Invincibility fallacy, Social norms, group think, but I think that would be too subtle for your taste.

Maybe we should just all agree that those Irish getting in trouble are all Scumbags,. Or since you strike me as a tabloid reading chap, "Boozed up Paddys Biff, Bonk and Bash their way through OZ".

Maybe you're not able to hold 2 conflicting thoughts in your mind at once. I can explain their actions, I do not excuse their actions.

What exactly is your point?

Attack the post not the poster, it's a sign you're losing the rag i.e. hold hand, tabloid reading, conflicting thoughts.

Social norms in Australia and other English speaking countries are the same as Ireland. They are set by that society as a whole and the laws of that country.

Also, what's all this about

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I could introduce you to psychological constructs like Invincibility fallacy, Social norms, group think, but I think that would be too subtle for your taste

are you sure you're in the right thread?

El_Duderino 09 · 21-01-2015 5:00pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster, it's a sign you're losing the rag i.e. hold hand, tabloid reading, conflicting thoughts.

Social norms in Australia and other English speaking countries are the same as Ireland. They are set by that society as a whole and the laws of that country.

Also, what's all this about are you sure you're in the right thread?

Now you're on the right track. Yes social norms are set by the society but as with any group you care to mention they will form their own social norms based on the group. In this case it's a group of

1 young
2 full of p1ss and vinegar
3 hanging out together
4 without the influence of more sensible older people
5 setting their own group social norms

Stupidity ensues. Predictable enough really.

I've asked you in the last few posts what you think about the Irish people doing stupid things in OZ.

So what do you think?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 21-01-2015 7:56pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now you're on the right track. Yes social norms are set by the society but as with any group you care to mention they will form their own social norms based on the group. In this case it's a group of

1 young
2 full of p1ss and vinegar
3 hanging out together
4 without the influence of more sensible older people
5 setting their own group social norms

Stupidity ensues. Predictable enough really.

I've asked you in the last few posts what you think about the Irish people doing stupid things in OZ.

So what do you think?

Just stop, it's run its course.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-01-2015 8:28pm

Ellie Slimy Puddle wrote: »

Just stop, it's run its course.

Okey dokey. You can't appreciate that when circumstances change, outcomes change.

What do you think is the explanation?

AngryHippie · 21-01-2015 10:47pm

AngryHippie wrote: »

dickheads. There is no shortage of them

I think that should wrap it up.

ambasite · 22-01-2015 5:21am

Anti-Irish sentiment in the media, simple.

d.pop · 22-01-2015 6:13am

Nothing really new about any of this to be honest. Been going on as long as backpackers have been coming to Oz and by the way as long as Aussies/kiwis/saffies have been going overseas too ! Works both ways.

I came to Oz first in the 90's on a WHV and Sydney was full of drunk Irish lads in their 20's, same pubs as people talk about now, cock and bull, scruffys, the rocks area etc. Think the heat, the money and pretty much 24hr licensing sends people loopers at first.

I saw a lot of idiotic stuff on Saturday nights around the city, not all by Irish by the way....

I do think a few things have changed though, in my opinion only mind...:

The young Irish are much more "confident" now than "my" generation of backpackers was so are not as prepared to "cop" on when told to do so and end up in trouble.

Oz is not as far from Ireland as it used to be ( figuratively speaking ) so lot more people come over now than previous and perhaps a different type of person too that would not have gone too far before.

The internet. It didn't really exist back in the day, do if young Mick got pi**ed and did something dumb it didn't usually make the news outside of oz, now as things trend they get picked up at home and voila headlines...

Of course for every idiot there are hundreds / thousands of good kids out here from every country.

These days I tend to stay away from the usual hotspots on weekends, not because I'm embarrassed by what goes on but because I'm older and don't have the patience or interest anymore to deal with large groups of drunks from any country.

Sad fact of life that the Irish and the British have a big pub and drinking culture and when you mix a load of drink with young lads the consequences are sadly predictable.

The Aussie · 22-01-2015 7:38am

ambasite wrote: »

Anti-Irish sentiment in the media, simple.

LOL, simple

TrueDub · 22-01-2015 10:30am

Keep it civil folks please - attack the post, not the poster.

What's going on over there??? - See mod warning post 194 BEFORE posting!

Comments