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Detroit, Bankrupt. Any sympathy ?

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    #62
    delaney001
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭delaney001


    Chucken wrote: »
    Its not. He chooses to do it.

    Read the original post I quoted.
    "it's nice to see someone who doesn't think that now that he has money he can turn his back and run off to New York or L. A. like most others."


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    #63
    Smiles35
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    Liamario wrote: »
    ED209 surely.

    Either way, it's not ready. Sure you saw what it did to Bob.


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    #64
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    You can basically walk out of your negative equity house and leave the keys in the letterbox. No longer need to pay the loan, but no longer have any stake in the asset.


    This is precisely what cause the economic crash. The loans to people to buy houses were grouped together and sold as a investment portfolio. When the loans stopped getting paid the portfolios crashed, caused the credit crunch and then world wide financial crisis.

    It pretty much shows that what seems like a nice humane way to treat people created a massive liability that caused hardship for everybody else. It is a prime example of why people should not be allowed walk away from their debts.


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    #65
    delaney001
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭delaney001


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    This is precisely what cause the economic crash. The loans to people to buy houses were grouped together and sold as a investment portfolio. When the loans stopped getting paid the portfolios crashed, caused the credit crunch and then world wide financial crisis.

    It pretty much shows that what seems like a nice humane way to treat people created a massive liability that caused hardship for everybody else. It is a prime example of why people should not be allowed walk away from their debts.

    Would it not be fair to go back higher upstream and say the people who walked away from those debts, should have been more thoroughly background checked to see if they were suitable candidates to take on those loans, and in some cases rejected?


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    #66
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have some sympathy, it was a victim of its own success.

    There were lots of jobs in car assembly that didn't require college education.

    The city never diversified. Once car assembly got into trouble the city got into trouble. Taxes went up and the wealthy moved to suburbs outside of the city and took their taxes with them. The city's financial situation got worse.

    You can pick up a mansion for a song now:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/abandoned-homes-in-detroit-2013-3?op=1

    (bigish picture) Abandoned former central rail station:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Michigan_Central_Train_Station_Exterior_2010.jpg

    [URL="Life goes on around body found frozen in vacant Detroit warehttp://www.detroitnews.com/article/20090129/METRO08/901290400#ixzz2ZVKUn5Lv"]Life goes on around body found frozen in vacant Detroit warehoue[/URL]

    edit: I don't know what the solution would be - maybe forcing the integration of the city and the suburbs?


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    #68
    MonaPizza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭MonaPizza


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Obama so proudly refused to let Detroit go bankrupt in 2012 and 89 billion was spent saving it. The knock on effect of Detroit not able to pay its 15 billion in debt will hurt.

    Republicans are going to have a field day.

    The irony. And since Detroit has a huge black population, you know, the kind of people the GOP hate, then they'll be crying crocodile tears for the very people they routinely step on.


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    #69
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    They should have a telethon to save it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLQ-bTuGb4


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    #70
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    'Put your hands out for Detroit!'


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    #71
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    conorhal wrote: »
    It was a dumb idea to make China the worlds manufacturer,
    We are all responsible for that, although the Americans were probably one of the biggest contributors to China's rise. As long as we demand cheap goods and ignore all other factors that will continue. The consumer has the power to make everything change by changing our spending habits. Every company at this stage as an about us page where you can see where and how they manufacture or operate.

    If you want to keep jobs in Europe buy European. Although having just paid top whack for what I thought was German engineering only to see made in China written on the box when it arrived it's probably getting harder and harder to do that.


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    #72
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    delaney001 wrote: »
    Would it not be fair to go back higher upstream and say the people who walked away from those debts, should have been more thoroughly background checked to see if they were suitable candidates to take on those loans, and in some cases rejected?

    Clinton pushed the banks to give poor people mortgages they weren't giving out at the time. There was a public pressure to get this to happen. This was the seed of the economic crash

    Similar happened here as people complained the banks weren't lending enough so the banks met this demand with higher loan to value rates. What lots of people like to forget is the public were putting pressure on the banks to give larger longer term mortgages. The banks here actually did what the public demanded.


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    #73
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    If the bankruptcy judge is allowed to make the decisions on who and what gets paid through the process, without interference from politicians, labor union and lawyers, the city will rise again.

    Bulldoze the depressed areas, restructure the city finances without ludicrous pay, benefit and pensions to public employees, stop the ridiculous rules and regulations that cripple business, and putting tax incentives in place to lure new businesses will help because the infrastructure already exists. Then and only then IMO, the city will come back.


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    #74
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    Personally, I think this is richly deserved, because they are utter spanners. It's one place I'd love to be let loose in - I'd make millions within a few months.
    #1.They have a crap police force- private security company and hand it over, crime starts to drop.
    #2.The whole kip is buried in scrap metal. I get €200 a ton for that - clear the kip out of the stuff, process it all into chaff and start selling, take €80 a ton for "Detroit best". It adds up to untold millions. The whole U.S is a bit blind to this as they are dopey, lazy, profligate wasters.
    #3.Start re-building -jobs right away and start attracting investment by offering a "Detroit Deal" to any company that will relocate there - build their workers houses, shops and facilities - No. #1 takes care of their security, and anyone who wants to mess with the project gets a cap in their azz. Literally.
    #4. Start building Hospitals and establish Detroit as a center of excellence for medical treatment internationally - welcome medical tourists with the best facilities and the best care in the world, at the best prices.

    the list goes on. They are just sleepy feckers who need to go bust to wake them up a bit.


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    #75
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I'd say there's a fair bit of the usual media scaremongering in this. They're hardly going to show people out having barbecues on their verandahs or shopping in the Renaissance Centre to sell a vision of a post apocalyptic city.


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    #76
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    NuckingFacker wrote: »
    #2.The whole kip is buried in scrap metal. I get €200 a ton for that - clear the kip out of the stuff, process it all into chaff and start selling, take €80 a ton for "Detroit best". It adds up to untold millions. The whole U.S is a bit blind to this as they are dopey, lazy, profligate wasters.

    Funny how they became the most powerful economic, scientific and military power that the World has ever seen so.


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    #77
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    NuckingFacker wrote: »
    #4. Start building Hospitals and establish Detroit as a center of excellence for medical treatment internationally - welcome medical tourists with the best facilities and the best care in the world, at the best prices.

    Selling scrap metal ain't gonna pay for that.


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    #78
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Funny how they became the most powerful economic, scientific and military power that the World has ever seen so.
    While some of the general population might not be the most wordly cultured people they have the best and brightest from not only the USA but all over the world.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Massive cutbacks as the city restructures its costs and debts to something more sustainable.

    It's an irreversible spiral for Detroit I feel. The city was so heavily dependent on one single industry, that once that industry pulled out, there was little incentive for other industries to come in because Detroit doesn't have the skills available. As unemployment gets worse, crime increases and government keeps cutting back, those who have any money and relevant skills are quickly leaving for better places, compounding the problem.

    Unemployment is high, which means social assistance is high and tax take is low. Unless they can find a way to reverse the trend, it won't be long before detroit is a mostly unemployed ghetto, relying on federal funding to keep going and requiring military and state trooper assistance to police itself.

    That said, the days of heavy manufacturing being a country's bread-and-butter, and a person being confined to one industry are long gone. With the right incentives and federal assistance, they should be able to convince low-skill clean industry jobs like call centres to locate themselves in Detroit and provide employment to the existing population.

    Perhaps a lesson for Ireland in there in that we shouldnt put all our eggs in one basket with regards the types of industry we are trying to entice into this country


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    #80
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Funny how they became the most powerful economic, scientific and military power that the World has ever seen so.

    That is some claim. Economically isn't true, scientific isn't true either. Military OK. Their hold on media makes people think they are more than they are.

    USA is not the land of the free or a democracy BTW. False advertisement


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    #81
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    detroit is only the tip of the iceberg.

    The US is bust. More bust than Greece.


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    #82
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    That is some claim. Economically isn't true, scientific isn't true either. Military OK. Their hold on media makes people think they are more than they are.
    Aren't most big pharmaceutical companies American? I would have thought America is still one of the major players in scientific research.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rightwing wrote: »
    detroit is only the tip of the iceberg.

    The US is bust. More bust than Greece    .

    Yeah sure dont they owe trillions to China?


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    #84
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah sure dont they owe trillions to China?

    They owe about $4tln to china, and $17tln debt in total.

    The mighty US has to print $85 bln a month, and they can barely afford the interest payments, let alone the debt. The greatest default the world has ever seen is on the way.


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    #85
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Funny how they became the most powerful economic, scientific and military power that the World has ever seen so.
    Borrow the Isle of man 14 trillion and I'd say they'd be "doing pretty good" on the face of it as well. It's when the tide goes out you see who's swimming naked as someone once said. An American, I believe.

    edit,sorry, didn't see the posts above, already stated.


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    #86
    camel jockey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭camel jockey


    stefan idiot jones wrote: »
    Detroit has declared itself bankrupt.

    I have a great deal of sympathy for the citizens and the American people, but not a lot for the Country itself as they had a huge part in starting the global recession in the first place.

    What do you think ? Will you shed a tear for the mighty and powerful warmongering Nation ?

    Silly sausage. What has this got to do with 'warmongering'? Have you travelled back in time from some post-apocalyptic future we don't know about, or have you been watching Robocop again?


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    delaney001 wrote: »
    Just out of interest, why cant he 'run off to NY or LA'. Has he not earned the right to go anywhere in the world he chooses (or his fortune allows)

    Why does he have to stay and help (I do agree its nice that he does try to help)? But why is it expected of him

    No one is stopping him running off to wherever he likes but he chose not to and it's refreshing to see a celebrity who doesn't turn his back on his home town the second he get's a chance to. Plenty of big names love nothing more than talking about the current state of the country and how bad things are as they move their companies to some tax haven in order to save a little money. Very few actually try to do anything about it. Eminem has shown that to him it's not just an attempt to sound like he's a normal guy, he genuinely cares and does what he can. Will I Am has a similar attitude, he could save money if he moved his various businesses to other countries but chooses to keep them around where he grew up and help out the people hit the most by the recession.


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    #88
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    camel jockey wrote: »
    Silly sausage. What has this got to do with 'warmongering'? Have you travelled back in time from some post-apocalyptic future we don't know about, or have you been watching Robocop again?
    Indeed, because the war on people with oil terror was carried out on a budget of $25.78. They used the change for a bag of chips on the way home. Any vague idea just how much borrowed money they peed away in Iraq?


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    #89
    camel jockey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭camel jockey


    NuckingFacker wrote: »
    Indeed, because the war on people with oil terror was carried out on a budget of $25.78. They used the change for a bag of chips on the way home. Any vague idea just how much borrowed money they peed away in Iraq?

    Detroit? Or the US federal government?


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    #90
    MonaPizza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭MonaPizza


    It's not just Detroit. Cities that were once thriving in the 40's and 50's, places like St. Louis, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, etc are absolute kips now. Everything is crumbling apart. Click on any city in this link and take a look at the photos. Some place are positively apocalyptic:

    linhdinhphotos.blogspot.ie


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    #91
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    MonaPizza wrote: »
    It's not just Detroit. Cities that were once thriving in the 40's and 50's, places like St. Louis, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, etc are absolute kips now. Everything is crumbling apart. Click on any city in this link and take a look at the photos. Some place are positively apocalyptic:

    linhdinhphotos.blogspot.ie

    True, but then there are some other cities which are beginning to thrive an emerge. The US was ever thus. Cities decay as their core industries (steel, port industries etc) decline and or move to other more suitable locations.

    Apparently Texas is the place to be now in terms of growth.


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