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Detroit, Bankrupt. Any sympathy ?

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    #32
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    China with a population of 1.3 billion and cheap labour made itself a huge exporter and manufacturer. No one sat in a room and decided.

    That's not strictly true, there was a policy of open engagement that encouraged trade and included reducing tarrifs and trade agreements that encouraged the active engagement by western powers with China's economy.

    This was designed to encourage more international economic engagement by the Chinese in the hope that a positive response to Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms might lead to social and political reform, a misguided aspiration prompted by Francis Fukuyama's post 1989 optimism in his book 'The End of History', and it's flawed thesis that Capitalism was the driving force that would overcome despotic regimes in places like Russia and East Germany as well as the former Soviet Union states.
    Fukuyama's utopianism badly underestimated how well repressive states like China and Russia would do 'capitalism their way' and still maintain their regimes grip on power.


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    #33
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    A lot easier to do it in the US because they have strategic foreclosure. There's not much keeping people from leaving Detroit to be honest.

    How does that work?


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    #34
    Problem123456
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭Problem123456


    CJC999 wrote: »
    People should simply move to outside the city limits. Problem solved.
    yeah but who is going to buy there house?


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    #35
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #36
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    conorhal wrote: »
    That's not strictly true, there was a policy of open engagement that encouraged trade and included reducing tarrifs and trade agreements that encouraged the active engagement by western powers with China's economy.

    This was designed to encourage more international economic engagement by the Chinese in the hope that a positive response to Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms might lead to social and political reform, a misguided aspiration prompted by Francis Fukuyama's post 1989 optimism in his book 'The End of History', and it's flawed thesis that Capitalism was the driving force that would overcome despotic regimes in places like Russia and East Germany as well as the former Soviet Union states.
    Fukuyama's utopianism badly underestimated how well repressive states like China and Russia would do 'capitalism their way' and still maintain their regimes grip on power.

    That has to be the most misrepresentative review of Fukuyama ever.:mad:

    The End of History was neither utopianistic nor was particualary wrong in its thesis.


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    #37
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Chucken wrote: »
    How does that work?

    You hand back the keys to your mortgaged property and the bank doesn't chase you for the balance thereafter.


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    #38
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Chucken wrote: »
    How does that work?

    You can basically walk out of your negative equity house and leave the keys in the letterbox. No longer need to pay the loan, but no longer have any stake in the asset.


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    #39
    Smiles35
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Nowhere to Run - Martha and the Vandellas

    /COUGH/ The car factory vid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17yfqxoSTFM


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    #40
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Old and grey wrote: »
    That has to be the most misrepresentative review of Fukuyama ever.:mad:

    The End of History was neither utopianistic nor was particualary wrong in its thesis.

    Well I wasn't going to delve too deeply but I can't see how anybody isn't laughing at Fukuyama these days, I was more generally talking about the post '98 feeling that 'a McDonalds on every street corner in Moscow is an indicator of freedom', which was a thesis at the time which was woefully simplistic. Homogeneity of consumption is just that.


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    #41
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    A lot easier to do it in the US because they have strategic foreclosure. There's not much keeping people from leaving Detroit to be honest.

    You need money to move... The explanation of strategic foreclosure by Ann Coates doesn't magic the money someone needs to move.


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    #42
    furtzy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭furtzy


    Not surprised by this news. I spent a weekend there back in 1999 when working over in Lansing Michigan and was absolutely shocked by the poverty and number of abandoned neighbourhoods. It was like a scene from a zombie movie.


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    #43
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    :eek: http://homes.yahoo.com/Michigan/Detroit/4700-saint-clair-st:8e2131f4e774bb2c43146e6a72cffce9/


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    #45
    miller82
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭miller82


    Chucken wrote: »
    :eek: http://homes.yahoo.com/Michigan/Detroit/4700-saint-clair-st:8e2131f4e774bb2c43146e6a72cffce9/

    a quick google search and that part of Detroit seems to be one of the worst going


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    #46
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Chucken wrote: »
    :eek: http://homes.yahoo.com/Michigan/Detroit/4700-saint-clair-st:8e2131f4e774bb2c43146e6a72cffce9/

    haha, offering a Mortgage on it as well!


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    #47
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    You need money to move... The explanation of strategic foreclosure by Ann Coates doesn't magic the money someone needs to move.

    Yeah of course, so unless you have savings/job opportunities it's going to be quite difficult. I'm just highlighting the fact that it's a lot easier to up and move in the US than in Ireland.


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    #48
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The explanation of strategic foreclosure by Ann Coates doesn't magic the money someone needs to move.

    Nor was it supposed to. I was just explaining what strategic foreclosure is, in answer to a quesdtion.

    I personally detest these Get On Your Bike homlies - usually from people with no respiosnbilites - to people looking for work.


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    #49
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    seamus wrote: »
    Massive cutbacks as the city restructures its costs and debts to something more sustainable

    Surely they should have been doing that long before it got to the bankrupt stage?


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    #50
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    miller82 wrote: »
    a quick google search and that part of Detroit seems to be one of the worst going

    I guessed that but its still someones home.


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    #51
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    anncoates wrote: »
    Nor was it supposed to. I was just explaining what strategic foreclosure is, in answer to a quesdtion.

    I personally detest these Get On Your Bike homlies - usually from people with no respiosnbilites - to people looking for work.

    Which is why I responded to Niall...


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    #52
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Which is why I responded to Niall...

    ...And quoted me.

    Let's not have an ellipsis fight about it though. :)


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    #53
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    anncoates wrote: »
    ...And quoted me.

    Let's not have an ellipsis fight about it though. :)

    I only referenced what you said, to indicate I understood the idea as you so kindly explained it for someone else.


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    #54
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    haha, offering a Mortgage on it as well!

    Want to halves with me? ;)


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    #55
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    The op-Ed in today's NY Times

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/us/detroit-files-for-bankruptcy.html?ref=us&_r=0


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Eminem to buy 8 mile and turn it into slim shady land.

    Eminem is one of the few celebrities who seems to genuinely care about where he's from. When he was asked to star in Elysium he agreed to do it but on the condition it be shot in Detroit. Of course he was told no and they ended up casting Matt Damon.

    Eminem really goes out of his way to help his home town and it's nice to see someone who doesn't think that now that he has money he can turn his back and run off to New York or L. A. like most others.


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    #57
    Push Pop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Push Pop


    Based in their demographics and percentage of people on government assistance this was inevitable. The city is a prime example of white flight. Not a huge deal, just means that bondholders will be burned, they should have known better.


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    #58
    delaney001
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭delaney001


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Eminem is one of the few celebrities who seems to genuinely care about where he's from. When he was asked to star in Elysium he agreed to do it but on the condition it be shot in Detroit. Of course he was told no and they ended up casting Matt Damon.

    Eminem really goes out of his way to help his home town and it's nice to see someone who doesn't think that now that he has money he can turn his back and run off to New York or L. A. like most others.

    Just out of interest, why cant he 'run off to NY or LA'. Has he not earned the right to go anywhere in the world he chooses (or his fortune allows)

    Why does he have to stay and help (I do agree its nice that he does try to help)? But why is it expected of him


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    #59
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    From just last year.
    th?id=H.4635829874065539&pid=15.1


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    #60
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    delaney001 wrote: »
    Just out of interest, why cant he 'run off to NY or LA'. Has he not earned the right to go anywhere in the world he chooses (or his fortune allows)

    Why does he have to stay and help (I do agree its nice that he does try to help)? But why is it expected of him

    Its not. He chooses to do it.


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    #61
    Liamario
    Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Dónal wrote: »
    I look forward to New Detroit patrolled by ED109.
    ED209 surely.


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