DART+ (DART Expansion)

monument wrote: »

I should have elaborated. Stuff such as...

Compared to international norms, these's a disportainate focus on road investment nationally and regionally.

~50% of tax from the country comes from the city and Dublin substitutes other counties but we still have the "Dublin gets everything" rumblings which are hardly ever challenged.

When the country's largest river isn't dredged because of flooding than Dublin are feckers, when Dublin wants to use some of the river's water Dublin are evil feckers.

Local government in the city was fractured by national government causing massive divisions in the county, across the country powers have been taken away from local government again and again, and any attempt at improving local government (ie looking for an elected mayor) has been resisted for years and is still being resisted by the minister for local government who has put up as many road blocks as posable to even allowing people to vote.

National government does not pick up the slack and when Dublin asks for the simplest of things (like upping clamping fines so those who break the law pay for the service) the national government never acts.

The minister has pushed a "local" tax but did not set it for actual use locally. He promised 80% retention by local councils but has since rowed back on even that which has pushed Dublin City Council into a bit of bother and a fairly rare strike back: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/dubliners-get-up-to-50-times-less-funding-than-rural-dwellers-1.1730130

Etc...

How has it come to this pathetic post as a method of trying to justify a new appraisal pf DU? While I don't agree that a new appraisal is necessary, I don't agree with the absolute bonkers assessment case put out above. DU is a no brainer. We can go back over it as many times as we like, but to analyse it too much, will play into the hands of Government and every other internet nark. Its rather simple actually and always has been.

We are currently constructing a motorway to Tuam, which is encouraging car use and urban sprawl in Galway, one of the most poorly planned Cities in Europe. We are also constructing a motorway to Wexford, and we are filling in potholes nationwide. If DARTu were open now, it could well push IÉ into profitability, where are our priorities?

murphaph wrote: »

To be honest getting IE profitable will never happen and shouldn't be a priority. IE should only be in charge of the infrastructure like Network Rail and even then they'd need reform. The services should be run by private companies under a common livery/fare system as is the plan for Dublin Bus. IE just don't get customer service and never will. It's a jobs club first and foremost. Running a railway plays second fiddle to that jobs club.

It can happen, it achieved surplus/ profit of approx €13 million in 2007. Numbers using Irish Rail services have dropped by about 9-10 million passengers per annum in that timeframe. Your comments about customer service are very fair and correct. Part of the problem for Irish Rail is that they are also at the mercy of the political system. Political pressure ensures that services such as Limerick-Galway, Limerick-Waterford and the Nenagh line remain open despite being severely loss making. It was a political policy to re-open the Limerick-Galway line.

Anyway, back to Dart Underground which is what this thread is all about. The previous business case for DU showed a benefit to cost ratio of 2.4:1. That is a very impressive BCR ratio. I doubt that many other transport investments in the Country, past and present could achieve a return on this kind of investment. A new business case will most likely show a slightly smaller BCR ratio but it will still be extremely positive I reckon. The recent report by the NTA on land use "Planning and Development of Large-Scale, Rail Focussed Residential Areas in Dublin" will no doubt be a driver for the business case. The report sees large scale population growth along the proposed Dart Lines at Adamstown, Clonburris(near Clondalkin), Parkwest, North Fringe and in areas along the Maynooth Line (Hansfield, Blanchardstwon and Pelletstown). These are areas that already have permission for this kind of development. They can become more attractive from a home purchaser point of view and from an investment point of view if DU proceeds.

Dear Irish Govt,

Irish Rail CEO David Franks was interviewed this morning by Pat Kenny on Newstalk and was answering questions from listeners.

One, from an Inchicore, was about Dart Underground and was as interesting for the question as the answer.

Listener said they had received notice from IE that it planned to proceed with DartU and was asserting claims to land in the area - I presume that's land in and around CIE Works.

Franks replied that it looked like the Government would be proceeding with DartU from 2015 and thus IE was 'dusting down it's plans and updating the business case' for DartU.

He then gave a line on how DartU would upgrade the commuter rail network in and around Dublin and allow for a major expansion of the Dart network in Dublin.

And then Kenny moved on without following up on any of that. Sin é.

MYOB wrote: »

Well, the tender for the business plan update has gone out, and its good housekeeping by IE to ensure that any disputes over land that has been appropriated are sorted out well in advance also. There may be no more certainty to it.

Indeed. But there's intent and movement by Govt and IE that has not been there for years.

Everything points to a serious attempt to progress Dart Underground in the post-2015 Capital Plan but until it's signed off by the Cabinet, I'll keep the Asti Spumante on ice!

Well Transport 21 was announced alongside the budget way back in 2005.

Could we see the next Capital Plan announced along with the general budget in October... I wouldn't be so confident to be honest.

1huge1 wrote: »

Well Transport 21 was announced alongside the budget way back in 2005.

Could we see the next Capital Plan announced along with the general budget in October... I wouldn't be so confident to be honest.

More likely around Budget 2016 in October 2015 - the same Budget which will have all the tax cuts, Mick Noonan casually threw out there a few months ago...

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I see they have managed to cut the costs considerably. The 2 billion euro project in today's Independent was a 4.1 billion euro project when it was last mentioned in the Irish Times.

The tunnel project to which Indo today refers is circa €2bn.

The overall Dart expansion project, including the tunnel, electrification and station upgrades on Maynooth, Kildare and Northern lines and additional rolling stock, comes in at the €4bn mark.

It's really easy to understand if you pay attention.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

One would think, then, that the 4 bilion euro figure would have been relevant to the article. I wonder why it wasn't mentioned.

You'll have to ask the Indo/Herald reporter and editors that.

Good luck with that.

But here's a little nugget for ya.

In three different articles by three different reporters in the Irish Times, there were three different costs given for Dart Underground - €4.1bn (Feb 4, 2014), €1bn (Jan 3, 2014) and €2.6bn (Dec 21, 2013).

Go figure that one out.

Where do all these figures come from?! They can't simply be made up by reporters...right?