Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Chivito550 wrote: »

Got a reply:

There are a number of issues with your post. In the first instance, we are not saving 10%. The current proposal has a revised price tag €600 million less than the former plan, however, it must be noted that the figures provided for the former propsal were never firm but based on an assesment in 2012 by the NTA, the numbers did not stack up in terms of value for money. I have addressed that in a response to Simon Boyne earlier, the information is available on the NTA website. It has been known for many, many years that Dublin, as a capital city is the only capital in Europe where there is no rail connection but comparing cities who have metros for either decades, or in one case, over a century is not a true comparison, its just words on a page. A rail connection was first propsed for Dublin airport in 1972 but such plans never got further on the basis of a focus on other transport proposals. This has been the case for decades. There are some who skip over the events of 2008 and somehow think that the state was in the position to go ahead and built the Metro once permission was granted. I can think of millions of others who would balk at the thought that we would sacrifice schools, roads, rail, social welfare and many other causes to build a rail connection. The announcement in 2015 stands. The budget for the project is secure and I am confident in the ability of the NTA to get the job of work done in advance of the planning application being lodged toward the end of next year.

More:

Inflation would only be relevant since 2012. Would you be aware of constuction inflation since then to erode that saving? I am not sure that you can pass judgement on such matters without realising the knock on effects within the Department and its ability to ensure that our road, rail and bus network would have been maintained to a reasonable level since then. Literally, Rail safety, to name buy one issue would have to be sacrificed. Its 2017, we have moved on from the old and are currently developing the new proposal in fine detail. Please feel free to email me shoudl you have questions on the new proposal.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's a bit of a lost cause this. TDs aren't going to be using this as a reason to vote for them outside of North Dublin really, the rest of the country will just think it's a waste of money. I give up. I live close enough to town to cycle to work but for those who don't, move abroad if you have a chance, this city is only going to get worse and worse, more congested and impossible to live in. What's the point in building new houses if there's no transport? It's so frustrating having pantomime clowns running the country.

It's a poxy hung dail . Dublin North TD's should be threatening to pull the plug not polishing turds.

****ing joke shop

I emailed him yesterday, no question marks nothing not one. I dont want a reply. I want to point out what a farce this is & I for one am sick of nothing being debated properly, as politicians do nothing but lie. How can you have an honest debate?!

He knows its total bull****! Lads lets not forget, the only reason these MORONS didnt go with luas much of it street run out to the airport, was that it would have made a line out to Finglas impossible I think.

Im waiting for the next excuse when they decide to stall this one, metro optimised, will now be too limited for this "unpredictable" and "stellar" growth that we have just gone through, throw it in the bin and start work on the "metro optimised mach 2"

Fg will think that they cant win, in fact those idiots have put a massive break on irish growth rates with the decimation of infrastructure spending during the recession and the housing crisis in dublin, because a handful of idiots dont like "tall" buildings...

We may see a change if Varadkar becomes Taoiseach, I dont think it will be good for the country if Coveney does, the rural anti dublin agenda isnt good for anyone!

In the first instance, we are not saving 10%. The current proposal has a revised price tag €600 million less than the former plan, however, it must be noted that the figures provided for the former propsal were never firm but based on an assesment in 2012 by the NTA, the numbers did not stack up in terms of value for money.

total and utter spurios BS! first of all inflation obviously isnt a cost for Mr Farrell! Secondly how much of any spend on any infrastructure spend, eventually ends back up in government coffers? a bloody massive percentage of it, I would wager. Also we always hear about the cost benefit analysis being favorable, does this stop once a project exceeds X million euro? :rolleyes:

I emailed Shane Ross a few weeks ago and got this response. Pretty much what everyone knows already.

"Dear (Yer man)

I refer to your email regarding the original Metro North project. I apologise for the delay in replying.

Following a comprehensive review of capital expenditure carried out in 2011, a decision was taken by the Government to defer the original Metro North scheme and a number of other major projects, due to the deterioration in the public finances.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) has statutory responsibility for the development of public transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area (GDA), including the Metro North project. Based on the recommendations in the Fingal/North Dublin Transport Study undertaken by the NTA, the Government decided in 2015 that the revised lower cost new Metro North scheme was the most appropriate public transport solution to address the transport needs of the Swords/Airport/City Centre Corridor. It is proposed that the service will offer capacity for 9,900 passengers per hour per direction with the potential to expand services in the future if demand requires. In making the decision to proceed with new Metro North, the Government asked the NTA to keep the interim public transport needs of the corridor under review.

Funding for the new Metro North project is provided under the Government's current Capital Plan, allowing initially for the planning and design phases of the project, followed by the construction phase which is expected to commence in 2021 with a view to delivering the project by 2026/2027. I am advised by the NTA that there is very little scope to accelerate the project to any significant extent in view of the large volume of work that must be done in terms of planning etc and the timeframes required for consultation before construction can commence.

The NTA, in collaboration with Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), are currently undertaking an option analysis and selection study of possible metro alignments and station locations. Arising from this work a final route and station configuration will be established. It is my understanding that the NTA and TII anticipate that this process will be complete by the end of 2017, after which a public consultation process will be undertaken in 2018.
Of the previous expenditure of €170 million incurred on the original Metro North Scheme, it is anticipated that a significant proportion of this investment will be of value in the finalisation of the new Metro North project. My Department will continue to monitor progress, including funding for the project, as the planning and design process evolves.



With best wishes,
Shane Ross"

Are they bloody parrots or something? Are they brain dead or do they think we are?!

The fact that this is the response we get from elected officials, probably tells me why everything here is always at crisis point. "Nothing to see here" " sure til be grand"

Remember the primary reason for the justification of abandonment of metro north was patronage figures. The cost was then just the way to try and justify it, sell it to the mostly ignorant masses , which we here are not. Take a read of the below...

http://m.independent.ie/life/home-garden/census-2016-figures-bring-a-bombshell-35625057.html

Funny how it can be conveniently dropped at the proverbial " drop of the hat" but no amount of logic or reasoning can get it back on the cards!

Don't blame the civil servants who write this stuff. Here is a two-line answer that they would write if they could:

Metro North is the best public transport option for the city-centre to Swords corridor. However successive governments have not prioritised its delivery over other types of public spending.

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

Post it up here when it's published.

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

Don't expect local newspapers who take substantial advertising from politicians to call them out on anything.

In political terms FF in Government, lead the way with the original MN project. Despite them propping up the current Government, they haven't used MN or DU as leverage. They've issued plenty of press releases moaning and groaning, but it appears that IW was more important. Once again an example of political BS in terms of transport infrastructure. If you are dealing with a FF TD, ask them why MN and DU (despite their moaning) weren't central issue to supporting the Government.

marno21 wrote: »

Not many people outside of Dublin will care about MN, water charges are a national issue in the eyes of many. People in Clifden aren't going to be happy about MN advancing wen there's no money for the N59 or the Galway bypass

As for DU, I'm not surprised there is no money being given for DU with the ongoing conflict with CIE.

With all due respect, I know all that. But it doesn't mean it's right. For over 14 years, I have been reading the same crap excuses on this forum. It's almost like some kind of disease at this stage. I kind of feel offended when stuff like, "not many people outside Dublin care about blah blah blah." is repeated to me. As for the CIE argument, it's not a new one, but once again it's up to the political class that created it, to change it. Seriously marno21, I'm saddened by the simplicity of your post as it exposes all that is wrong with our Governance. The Proportional Representation system is recycling this country through swathes of utter nonsense.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Speaking of Galway. I was down there the other day. The place is a glorified village. What's that bypass costing e600,000,000?!

The gort - tuam bypass the enniscorthy ones. Is this a joke that projects like these are nearly completed and MN and du have been confined to the dustbin not to be seen for another decade at best ?!

To be fair, as a native Galwegian myself, traffic in the city or village as you call it can be hell. At peak times it can literally take over an hour to traverse the city. I now live in Dublin and the traffic is nowhere near as bad to go the same distances. No new bridges have been built in the city in over 30 years. I don't talk for all of Galway now but I always felt that Dublin badly needed a proper integrated transport system and it becomes starkly obvious how beneficial one would be when you visit the likes of continental European cities. I can only hope that the government/NRA actually stick to the timelines that have set this time with respect to metro north.

Grandeeod wrote: »

With all due respect, I know all that. But it doesn't mean it's right. For over 14 years, I have been reading the same crap excuses on this forum. It's almost like some kind of disease at this stage. I kind of feel offended when stuff like, "not many people outside Dublin care about blah blah blah." is repeated to me. As for the CIE argument, it's not a new one, but once again it's up to the political class that created it, to change it. Seriously marno21, I'm saddened by the simplicity of your post as it exposes all that is wrong with our Governance. The Proportional Representation system is recycling this country through swathes of utter nonsense.

Agree with all this but just to say it's our version of PR (with single transferable vote) that is the problem. Most European states use other forms of PR and still have good functioning government at national level. The STV system is what creates multi seat constituencies and makes the Dáil like an overgrown council chamber in the process. All politics is local as they say but in Ireland it's taken to extremes.

I'd love to see the system used in the Netherlands adopted in Ireland (national list).

pigtown wrote: »

I'd just like to point out that it's an issue for all Irish cities. They all have housing crises and badly needed infrastructural projects. They aren't being given the go-ahead either, and in some cases there aren't even plans that could get postponed. Investment is lacking nationally.

I find it difficult to believe that this is comparable... firstly, what other Irish cities are as badly hurt by lack of infrastructure as Dublin?
Secondly, how many other Irish cities are capable of producing infrastructure projects that can actually recoup significant investment?

My blood boils. This FG government is destroying the potential of this country. No vision.

CatInABox wrote: »

In fairness, they're not alone in this. Unions are playing their part too, any kind of increase in the tax take results in an increase in the amount that the unions want. The media has also played it's part, by pushing the unions line without question, resulting in some of the best paid public "servants" in the world. And of course, the electorate has also played their part, we voted for this.

EDIT: I don't want to drag the thread off topic again, so I'll clarify a bit! Politics in Ireland is very reactionary, and infrastructure investment is the very opposite of reactionary. I think that there won't be major infrastructure investment in Ireland until the lack of it becomes a major, visible problem. Seeing as people are happy enough to continue on with a gridlocked M50, I'd say the best way of highlighting this would be to contact the companies currently turning down Ireland/Dublin as a place to move their business to pre/post Brexit. I'd guess that a lack of infrastructure would be high on the list for most of those companies.

EDIT 2: News article on JP Morgan just popped up here.

But it hasn't stopped them.