Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

ComfortKid · 05-09-2015 12:02pm

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?

Did he live in Turkey for 3 years? YES

Did he want to go to Canada via Europe? YES

Was he going getting new teeth in Canada? YES

Nodin · 05-09-2015 12:13pm

ComfortKid wrote: »

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?

They were considering sending him money from Canada to get his teeth fixed. However for some reason they could only send 1,000 at a time (he needed 14,000) and he had to use a third party to collect it. They decided it was too awkward an arrangement and he could worry about the teeth once he managed to get into Europe (transferring the money being easier, presumably). There was no mention of going to Canada in order to get teeth fixed, no mention of going to Sweden in order to get teeth fixed. It was incidental, and the family were paying for it anyway.

It's a classic example of taking a small snippet, ignoring all other information and attaching a screaming declaration of content - it does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

Nodin · 05-09-2015 12:14pm

ComfortKid wrote: »

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?

Did he live in Turkey for 3 years? YES

Did he want to go to Canada via Europe? YES

Was he going getting new teeth in Canada? YES

Yet more distortions. Why do you feel the need to destroy a mans reputation, considering he is effectively destroyed by his loss as is?

Old Jakey · 05-09-2015 12:20pm

Daily remainder that immigration has turned Sweden into the rape capital of the west.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

A couple of quotes:

"A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men. The figures for men from Iraq, Bulgaria and Romania were, respectively, 20, 18 and 18. Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men."

On the failure of the Swedish justice system:

"In cases of gang rape, culprits and victims are most often young and in almost every case, the perpetrators are of immigrant background, mostly from Muslim countries. In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists. Several times the courts have acquitted suspects who have claimed that the girl wanted sex with six, seven or eight men.

'One striking incident occurred in 2013, in the Stockholm suburb of Tensta. A 15-year-old girl was locked up while six men of foreign extraction had sex with her. The lower court convicted the six men but the court of appeals acquitted them because no violence had occurred, and because the court determined that the girl "had not been in a defenseless position."

The mainstream Swedish media is so cowardly that foreign rapists are always described as Swedes. A recent example is the case of a Swedish woman being gang raped by 7 Somalis and an Iraqi on ferry bound for Finland. The Swedish press described the rapists as 'Swedish'.

I know the hardcore leftists won't believe this, or even care. I'm not trying to change their views, after all these people care more about the rights of economic migrants than women being raped. I just hope that more moderate, open minded people can see what immigration has done to Sweden.

Nodin · 05-09-2015 12:27pm

Old Jakey wrote: »

Daily remainder that immigration has turned Sweden into the rape capital of the west.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

.

As soon as I got to the part on the Swedish judiciary, I smelt something of a rat.....

"The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute. "
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute

Considering some its "writers" are amongst the most rabid far right muslim baiters in America (eg Robert Spencer), you'll pardon me if I pass on this one.

Old Jakey · 05-09-2015 12:31pm

Nodin wrote: »

As soon as I got to the part on the Swedish judiciary, I smelt something of a rat.....

"The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute. "
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute

Considering some its "writers" are amongst the most rabid far right muslim baiters in America (eg Robert Spencer), you'll pardon me if I pass on this one.

That's fine, I didn't expect you to care. Like I said my post was not aimed at people like you.

Surprised that you didn't call me a Nazi and make a joke about lizard people though.

weisses · 05-09-2015 12:45pm

Nodin wrote: »

Yet more distortions. Why do you feel the need to destroy a mans reputation, considering he is effectively destroyed by his loss as is?

Would you have considered them migrants of refugees ?

The biggest task now is to distinguish between migrants refugees and possible terrorists coming to Europe

A Primal Nut · 05-09-2015 12:49pm

Most governments in the middle east have laws which punish rape victims. Whenever democratic elections have taken place there (Tunisia, Egypt, etc) they voted for extremist parties which would reinforce these laws. So it would be a massive co-incidence if the people who came to Europe didn't share these views. Anyone who says there isn't a problem with how women are treated in these cultures is either deluded or lying.

In fact many of them of their defenders admit that there is an issue and say something like "it's a cultural belief, not a religious belief" as if that somehow makes a difference.

Wanderer78 · 05-09-2015 12:56pm

my sister use to work for an irish company that mainly dealt with Libyan customers. she was disrespected a lot my Libyan men. she doesnt have much to say about middle eastern men

Nodin · 05-09-2015 1:12pm

Old Jakey wrote: »

Killed his family to get new teeth...I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

He didn't, so I have to wonder why you are repeating that falsehood.

Wanderer78 wrote:

Would you have considered them migrants of refugees ?.

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

Nodin · 05-09-2015 1:13pm

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Most governments in the middle east have laws which punish rape victims. Whenever democratic elections have taken place there (Tunisia, Egypt, etc) they voted for extremist parties which would reinforce these laws. So it would be a massive co-incidence if the people who came to Europe didn't share these views. Anyone who says there isn't a problem with how women are treated in these cultures is either deluded or lying.

In fact many of them of their defenders admit that there is an issue and say something like "it's a cultural belief, not a religious belief" as if that somehow makes a difference.

And what has that to do with the thread topic, exactly?

foggy_lad · 05-09-2015 1:16pm

Nodin wrote: »

Would you mind explaining this please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

Nodin wrote: »

They were considering sending him money from Canada to get his teeth fixed. However for some reason they could only send 1,000 at a time (he needed 14,000) and he had to use a third party to collect it. They decided it was too awkward an arrangement and he could worry about the teeth once he managed to get into Europe (transferring the money being easier, presumably). There was no mention of going to Canada in order to get teeth fixed, no mention of going to Sweden in order to get teeth fixed. It was incidental, and the family were paying for it anyway.

It's a classic example of taking a small snippet, ignoring all other information and attaching a screaming declaration of content - it does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, these would be the first things people seek out if they have to migrate, so they would not have any identity papers to collect the money?

Nodin wrote: »

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

Unless they are in a place of refuge like Turkey for several years!

weisses · 05-09-2015 1:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

JRant · 05-09-2015 1:29pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, these would be the first things people seek out if they have to migrate, so they would not have any identity papers to collect the money?

Unless they are in a place of refuge like Turkey for several years!

My Syrian friend has to send his passport back to Damascus every 2 years and pay nearly $200 dollars for the privilege. Maybe this families papers were out of date considering they were in Turkey for 3 years. It's not a straight forward process to get your papers in order from a war torn country.

JRant · 05-09-2015 1:33pm

weisses wrote: »

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

For Syrians stuck in another country I think it would be fair to say they would still be refugees. It's not like they have anywhere to go back to in their own country, which is very much in the grips of a civil war.

foggy_lad · 05-09-2015 1:34pm

If they had passport to begin with there would not have been any issue with the Turkish authorities registering their status and the Canadians would have allowed the sisters visa/sponsorship application

foggy_lad · 05-09-2015 1:36pm

JRant wrote: »

For Syrians stuck in another country I think it would be fair to say they would still be refugees. It's not like they have anywhere to go back to in their own country, which is very much in the grips of a civil war.

But because they are no longer fleeing for their very lives they would not be entitled to make a claim for asylum in any country and the only motive for relocation to Europe would be monetary/economic which would require a visa.

RWCNT · 05-09-2015 1:36pm

Old Jakey wrote: »

That's fine, I didn't expect you to care. Like I said my post was not aimed at people like you.

Surprised that you didn't call me a Nazi and make a joke about lizard people though.

Who was your post aimed at? People like you who will seek out and share anything which supports your viewpoint, regardless of the credibility of the source?

AlekSmart · 05-09-2015 1:42pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

My sister use to work for an Irish company that mainly dealt with Libyan customers. She was disrespected a lot by Libyan men. She doesnt have much to say about Middle Eastern men

You will soon be derided yourself on this thread,because your account is personal experience and,therefore,influenced by your latent lack of empathy,sympathy,Nazism or somesuch.

This haughty dismissal will,most likely,be in the form of a "Smart-Ass One-Liner" which will change your perspective forever and also end any resistance you may feel towards this glorious opening of our staid European Union to more exotic and all embracing cultures.

What comes very clearly across,for the EU and particularly the German action in this crisis is a huge sense of National self-confidence and superiority,which fully expects this unprecedent influx of imigrants to segway smoothly and easily into Western European cultures.

What percentage of the Med Migrant flow are prepared to endorse and embrace core elements of Western European societal norms has yet to be remarked upon,however I will hazard a guess,that it will not be anything like the percentage required for peaceful and desireable integration/assimilation into OUR societies.

The Political infrastructures alone,in many of the EU States,will struggle to find appropriate representative avenues for the vast numbers now entering.

Very soon after the "Welcome to Refugees" mats are walked smooth,the very real difference between experencing African/Middle Eastern/Asian culture on an annual vacation or Student Gap-Year trek will suddenly become an issue.

Europe's Security Agencies already know that the numbers,gender,age-profile and locality of origin of many of the Med-Migrant flow will ensure that significant radicalization will already be underway and planned to continue,once the required numbers are in place.

This foreknowledge appears to be something which Frau Merkel and M.Hollande,in particular,have decided to disregard in favour of some, as yet unexplainable new ideal.

With the political dice now well & truly thrown,and a significant chunk of the Agreements and Treaties under which we joined the European Union now effectively annulled overnight,this week's events may well come to be the beginning of the hasty,uncontrolled collapse of Jean Monnet's European dream.

Nodin · 05-09-2015 1:44pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, ...................

The video says nothing like what you claim, for the third time.

There is no doubt that they are Syrian kurds.

Weisses wrote:

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

No. A Kurd in Turkey would be mad to stay if there was any way out.

weisses · 05-09-2015 1:59pm

Nodin wrote: »

No. A Kurd in Turkey would be mad to stay if there was any way out.

2 points

1 they could have moved inside Turkey to a Kurdish province .. Apparently they felt save enough in Istanbul for years

2 they could have moved back to Kurdish controlled areas in Syria, apperantly it's safe enough to go back and Bury his family so why not live there.

It's a bit strange that you flee your country but have no issues going straight back in for a funeral

Wanderer78 · 05-09-2015 2:00pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

You will soon be derided yourself on this thread,because your account is personal experience and,therefore,influenced by your latent lack of empathy,sympathy,Nazism or somesuch.

This haughty dismissal will,most likely,be in the form of a "Smart-Ass One-Liner" which will change your perspective forever and also end any resistance you may feel towards this glorious opening of our staid European Union to more exotic and all embracing cultures.

What comes very clearly across,for the EU and particularly the German action in this crisis is a huge sense of National self-confidence and superiority,which fully expects this unprecedent influx of imigrants to segway smoothly and easily into Western European cultures.

What percentage of the Med Migrant flow are prepared to endorse and embrace core elements of Western European societal norms has yet to be remarked upon,however I will hazard a guess,that it will not be anything like the percentage required for peaceful and desireable integration/assimilation into OUR societies.

The Political infrastructures alone,in many of the EU States,will struggle to find appropriate representative avenues for the vast numbers now entering.

Very soon after the "Welcome to Refugees" mats are walked smooth,the very real difference between experencing African/Middle Eastern/Asian culture on an annual vacation or Student Gap-Year trek will suddenly become an issue.

Europe's Security Agencies already know that the numbers,gender,age-profile and locality of origin of many of the Med-Migrant flow will ensure that significant radicalization will already be underway and planned to continue,once the required numbers are in place.

This foreknowledge appears to be something which Frau Merkel and M.Hollande,in particular,have decided to disregard in favour of some, as yet unexplainable new ideal.

With the political dice now well & truly thrown,and a significant chunk of the Agreements and Treaties under which we joined the European Union now effectively annulled overnight,this week's events may well come to be the beginning of the hasty,uncontrolled collapse of Jean Monnet's European dream.

apologies too much reading for me. i ll have a proper read later when i have the time

SSLguru · 05-09-2015 2:06pm

We owe these economic migrants nothing , we already waste billions on lazy wasters of our own and not to mention the thousands of roma , Nigerians and polish etc who leech off our system..

These so called refugees should be happy claiming refugee once they reach the first safe country they can , instead they pick and choose which country will give them the most free money.

This is an invasion.

Right now they're marching from Budapest to Austria and why is it that over 90% of them are males in their twenties , all have smartphones , selfie sticks etc.

There is also guaranteed to be isis fighters umongst them, can you imagine people looking back on this in the future , they won't believe how dumb Europe acted.

AlekSmart · 05-09-2015 2:08pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

If they had passport to begin with there would not have been any issue with the Turkish authorities registering their status and the Canadians would have allowed the sisters visa/sponsorship application

One of the parallell elements of the current crisis appears to be the reluctance of large-numbers of Migrants to engage with ANY registration or Identification process.

Most,if not all,of the countries represented in the flow (With Syrians still representing a minority) will have had Individual ID requirements in their home countries.

From the current accounts it would appear that Syrian Passports and ID documents are the main elements being presented voluntarily,as they are effectively a Key to Germany's Hall-Door.

http://www.vocativ.com/world/syria-world/want-fake-syrian-passport-know-guy/

Even the Syrian Government appears to recognize the significance of undermining an National ID principle.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/4/27/syria-relaxes-passport-rules-lets-refugees-apply.html

However,the narrative which our Ministers are running with,is that of Humanitarian Emergency,most likely as it is easier to sell to a,by now suspicious and confused electorate,who'se core political beliefs and attitudes have been effectively short-circuited by a combination of Govermental Incompetence and a new dawn of Left Wing activism finally gifted with a succession of open and own-goals by the same Government.

Our Government has decided to abandon the safe and reasonable processes of our existing Asylum and Refugee systems,which for decades has provenly worked to offer new lives to Reasonable numbers of successful applicants from all over the World.

We will rarely be treated to media pieces on these low,unimpressive sounding numbers of Irish Asylum System Successes,as they are not Impressive enough,when laid alongside numbers with several additional 00's behind them...."1,800 looks good...but 10,000 looks FAR more impressive Minister.... just look at Frau Merkel with her 800,000..what an opportunity for ...???? "

At the end of all of this,we may be lucky enough to have a Boards forum to review the success,or otherwise,of these Decisions.

However I would be confident in predicting that freedom-of expression,as we currently understand it,will be an early casuality.:(

JRant · 05-09-2015 2:08pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

But because they are no longer fleeing for their very lives they would not be entitled to make a claim for asylum in any country and the only motive for relocation to Europe would be monetary/economic which would require a visa.

I'm not au fait on all the particulars involved to be honest.
They could probably apply for asylum here on the grounds that they are fleeing Syria even though they are refugees in Turkey.

It's a bloody minefield and the whole thing needs clarification.

foggy_lad · 05-09-2015 2:11pm

Nodin wrote: »

The video says nothing like what you claim, for the third time.

There is no doubt that they are Syrian kurds.

No. A Kurd in Turkey would be mad to stay if there was any way out.

The sister in the video says "he has no teeth", "has a story about it", and that she was going to help him get his teeth fixed "but it's gonna cost 14,000 and up" Her father suggested "I think if they go to Europe for his kids and for better future".

Any kurd would be mad to risk their own life and the lives of their wife and innocent children who would follow their daddy anywhere because he will always protect them from harm!

When was the most recent massacre of Kurds in Turkey that makes it such a place of danger?

JustTheOne · 05-09-2015 2:21pm

Let's be honest al Qaeda and isis must not know there luck with how easy it Will be to send fighters into Europe.

Isis have said they already sent 4000 disguised as refugees.

This part I do have a problem with.

Cold War Kid · 05-09-2015 2:27pm

SSLguru wrote: »

We owe these economic migrants nothing , we already waste billions on lazy wasters of our own and not to mention the thousands of roma , Nigerians and polish etc who leech off our system..

These so called refugees should be happy claiming refugee once they reach the first safe country they can , instead they pick and choose which country will give them the most free money.

This is an invasion.

Right now they're marching from Budapest to Austria and why is it that over 90% of them are males in their twenties , all have smartphones , selfie sticks etc.

There is also guaranteed to be isis fighters umongst them, can you imagine people looking back on this in the future , they won't believe how dumb Europe acted.

I've no doubt you're right about many of the migrants not being refugees in genuine need.

But be honest, do you really think there are absolutely no genuine refugees in need? Be honest now.

FelineOverLord · 05-09-2015 2:42pm

Nodin wrote: »

You a reliable source for this?

Yeah, it's called research. I'll make it clear from the start that I'm not engaging with you as it's bloody pointless, so I won't be answering any more of your posts.

foggy_lad · 05-09-2015 2:44pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

Let's be honest al Qaeda and isis must not know there luck with how easy it Will be to send fighters into Europe.

Isis have said they already sent 4000 disguised as refugees.

This part I do have a problem with.

This type of comment does nothing for the cause of refugees asylum seekers or indeed those making such comments.

There is such a tiny increased risk from groups like IS ISIS or whatever they are being called this week and negative propaganda about the risk is only hurting those in genuine need

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I've no doubt you're right about many of the migrants not being refugees in genuine need.

But be honest, do you really think there are absolutely no genuine refugees in need? Be honest now.

In my honest opinion anyone seeking relocation on economic grounds should not be allowed into any other country without first obtaining a visa months in advance. It is the ease which these economic migrants are able to "country hop" that has created the current problem and the only logical and feasible action is to lock down European borders and only allow entry to those who have been processed and deemed to be genuine asylum seekers!

Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

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