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Boards Beef Discussion Group

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Comments

  • #252
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    A lot of suckler farmers have the idea that if they vaccinate that they should see a huge premium or else the buyer should pick up the cost. The reality is that is buyers have large losses in weanlings that they have less money to purchase replacements the following year.

    However I can see where they are coming from when they see the farmer that will not vacinate getting the same price. Vacinating was orginally brought in because of the huge losses that Italian feedlot's had in the late noughties. The WEP scheme was also introduce to help alleviate this problem. The WEP scheme seems to addressed a lot of the selling freshly weaned calves and also these calves are on meal.

    However suckler farmers should be aware that there can be a penelty in the mart if WEP is not followed. Last year I bought two good black LMX bulls 300 kgs for 565 euro because they were not weaned they just happened to fall to me because other farmers/dealers could see that they were not weaned and did not want to mix with weaned bulls in case they caused problems, mind you a month later these same people would have bought them as runners went mad.


  • #253
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    A lot of suckler farmers have the idea that if they vaccinate that they should see a huge premium or else the buyer should pick up the cost. The reality is that is buyers have large losses in weanlings that they have less money to purchase replacements the following year.

    I certainly don't expect a huge premium - enough to cover the cost of the vaccine would satisfy me. But with no record of vaccination and no display board showing it in the marts, there is little gain for me in the long run. Is it economical for me to vaccinate all of my weanlings when I know that the majority of them will be bought by an exporter who will vaccinate them a second time?

    If there was something in place to compel me to have to vaccinate them or a system in place which let the buyer know that they were vaccinated, I would gladly do it - but right now its up in the air!


  • #254
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    I know we covered fencing but watching these last night. ( I'm doing a bit at the moment). Guy really knows his stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71YHr-v9vSE&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXQ0ec2IZ8&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5cJI951J7s&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVd-vx96To&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B


  • #255
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Yes seen these. He knows his stuff alright ;) Still need to try out making the knot, save me a euro a gripple :D


  • #256
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I think I rememeber him putting the plane too in an old boot!? He made sure it was got on camera too... show off! :D


  • #257
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    reilig wrote: »
    I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.

    Reilig
    This is not the first time I've asked you regarding your technique! For this to work I take it you've the ground grazed down to the bare minimum before spraying? Also what's the time gap between the various stages? 7-10days from spraying before 1st chain harrow? How long do you leave the slurry before chain harrowing again?

    Apologies if you've answered this further on in the thread, I'm working my way through it slowly but surely;)


  • #258
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    pakalasa wrote: »
    Disc Harrow in action;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYX86RvcR0k&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&index=113&feature=plpp_video

    Power Harrow in action;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgrFBvrLx0&feature=autoplay&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&playnext=1

    Thanks for the videos Paka.

    So what's the difference between disc and power harrow? Looking at the two I don't see much difference in the end result (having never reseeded anything more than a few sq m of lawn!)


  • #259
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    I leave the sprayed ground for at least 2 weeks befoe harrowing. Graze it down very bare - cut it low with the disc mower if you have to. It has to be very bare. Chain harrow as soon after slurry as you can.
    just do it wrote: »
    Reilig
    This is not the first time I've asked you regarding your technique! For this to work I take it you've the ground grazed down to the bare minimum before spraying? Also what's the time gap between the various stages? 7-10days from spraying before 1st chain harrow? How long do you leave the slurry before chain harrowing again?

    Apologies if you've answered this further on in the thread, I'm working my way through it slowly but surely;)


  • #260
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    single strand HT + large post spacing = makes topping a doddle

    p5280154.jpg

    New fence reel to subdivide paddocks. That's for meadow by the way!
    p5280156.jpg


  • #261
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    reilig wrote: »
    Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.
    QUOTE]
    Just a couple of questions relig what tyope of chain harrow is it one of the frame type's or is it just an old stlye harrow. Also why do you not put grass seed out befpre slurry I see that some farmers do this.

    When useing wagtail to spread seed what speed do you go at is it very slow. I find it very hard to set wagtail to spread seed as it either spreads way too little or else it spreads just enough for one cover of land and you can get bare patches.


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  • #262
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    5 star wrote: »
    New to boards but interested in beef discussion just getting into sucklers calved 6 this spring bought 10 more heifers and bull is with them at the moment. Also buy approximately 30 dairy bred bull calves ( fr, aax, hex) rear them and take them through to beef at 23 months approx. Farm 40ish acres part time in one field as originally was in tillage and all ditches knocked. Put up a slatted unit in 2010 and used digging out of tank to make roadway through roughly centre of field. Ran water pipe out alongside roadway underground. Divided above and below roadway into roughly 4 to 5 acre paddocks with permanent fence. At fence between two paddocks brought water over ground and ran water line overground along under the wire putting 3 90 gal jfc drinkers at even intervals. This has given 3 drinkers serving between 8 and 10 acres. Like Muckit 1 drinker does 4 subdivisions. I keep bulls below roadway in approx 12 acres which due to the placement of drinkers I was able to subdivide into 11 paddocks of reasonably even size. This worked a treat last year as I was able to move 30 bulls every 2 days to fresh grass while bearing out the paddocks at the same time and because all ground is freshly reseeded (2009 & 2010) great response to fertilizer also last year growth was good. Because bulls were moved on so quickly they did very little damage in unseatled weather except of course around the drinkers which is one disadvantage to having 4 paddocks served by 1 drinker. Bulls got familiar to being moved and would wait for you to open wire and walk straight through took 2to 3 min at most and this included walking out from the yard meant that wife could move them if I was not around. Also at both ends of the paddocks I had a gap in the permanent fence so that bulls can work down one side and be brought through to other side of the fence to work back up without having to drive them back to the top of the paddock to change them over. When grass started getting scarce brought some silage ground into rotation above the roadway. The bulls had big gains at grass which I put down to fresh grass every 2 days. On the silage ground I have temp fence which i roll up same as  muckit but I use the plastic handle at the end to roll the wire onto and put a wrap of insulating tape around it to keep it together and just hang it on the wire. Must subdivide these into smaller paddocks though as 16 heifers 6 calves and one breeding bull are taking over a week to clean out these roughly 2 acre sub divisions and I have grass everywhere not a bad complaint this year but I am way under stocked due to finishing fr bulls at 16 months this year I only have 12 bulls at grass and weanlings are too dear to buy IMO. I find the paddock system very flexible in that if grass goes too strong you can skip one or two subdivisions and take it out for bales. Fusion baler man not too happy calling to make 5 or 6 bales though. 
    That's my 2 pence worth sorry so long winded
    What a start! You're not new to farming though by the sounds of it. I like the way you use silage tape to keep the wire together. It's a bloody nuisance when it gets tangled.


  • #263
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    5 star wrote: »

    Used AI on 6 heifers last year 4 star bull at the time but has risen to 5 star since am very impressed with calves. Does this mean my bull could drop to 3 star or less depending on what weights my cattle kill out at?
    What was the bil you used last year?

    Your young bull's figures are likely to change alright. I can't say I know all the data ICBF use but kill out weights are definitely one if them for beef carcase.


  • #264
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Muckit wrote: »
    Yes seen these. He knows his stuff alright ;) Still need to try out making the knot, save me a euro a gripple :D
    I tried doing the 'Tex Brown' knot (video on you tube) myself on 2 pieces of loose wire. Can't be done on loose wire. You need to do it with a Hayes type wire strainer. Man, that 2.5mm hi-tensile aire ain't easy to bend.


  • #265
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    Well lads,

    Bedbound at the moment with torn ligaments in me back so I said I'd make a contribution to this thread since I've gotten so much from this forum.

    We're running a Dairy Bull Beef system finishing between 19 and 22 months depending on the animal.

    In terms of fencing my older brother did a few years with the FRS so all the boundaries are fenced with single strand high tensile on cresote stakes, all done to OCD standards.
    He once said "Cattle just shouldnt break out, it shouldnt be possible". I think in about 8years there was only ever one aminal that got through a boundary fence.
    The roadways have double strands cos their under a lot more pressure when you're moving bulls past other bulls
    Individual paddocks are the same as boundary fences and average size is about 4.8 acres. These are then subdivided by reels and are moved daily. Starting to run back fences now.

    Water is laid on with concrete troughs, one serving two paddocks. Obviously these cant be moved so the strip grazing is done spokes of a wheel in most cases.

    The roadways are relatively new and were done quiet cheap, basically materials were free along with some of the machinery used. Still I have to say the system we run we would be at nothing without them. Had we paid full price I'd hand on heart say they were worth every penny. You lose land, its a massive cost and the benefits dont seem that obvious at first but especially with bulls its a no brainer really.

    As for reseeding, its been done out of necessity rather than to any plan because we did have a lot of tillage before. Will be reseeding about 30 acres this year but thats mainly due to most of it being raised bottoms.

    As for breeding, well the animals we'd have on the farm would be usually very plain by most standards. The buy in price effects our business a lot so we wouldnt win prizes for our stock but it suits us.

    Vaccination is the basic black leg vaccine and fluke and worms when the cattle arive on farm and going to grass

    All in all its a fairly standard operation. In terms of improvements, a topper is definetely on the cards.
    Also an outfarm which was used for silage only is now being converted to become a grazing platform.
    A quad has been discussed but was wondering, if anyone has expierence of them on a diary bull system. Have fears it would just drive the bulls mad. Also are they much safer than being on foot with some of the more dangerous bulls. Have heard the aggresive bulls would be more likely to charge a quad than a man
    Would also like to incorporate a weighing scales into the crush.


    Would be interested to hear from anyone who's running a strip grazing system with moveable water troughs as I'd like to set this up on the outfarm. By that I mean troughs connected to mains water supply but capable of moving up along the field staying within the front and back fence

    Anyway, sorry for all that bulls*it, but better late than never


  • #266
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Thanks Don't be daft for that. Very interesting and good to hear about another type of beef system.

    Can you tell us more about your dairy bull beef system?
    • What age are the bulls when you buy them in?
    • What time of year do you buy in?
    • Do you buy in batches all year round or have you a set time for buying and selling?
    • Do you buy privately off dairy farmers or mart?
    • Are they 'local' stock ie is it a dairy area or what made you get into it?
    • Do you have an arrangement with a local meat factory? ie would you have set price/kg contract, does an agent call out to tell you when stock are fit etc etc?
    • What feed do they get in the shed?
    • What are your margins like per hd?
    Sorry about all the questions! :D


  • #267
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

    On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

    You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

    How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #268
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    Hey Muckit

    In terms of buying in its a mix of everything really. Dont take calves as our cousins specialise in that side of it. We'd buy from marts, local dairy farmers and rearers. Its usually year round with a lull in the Summer.

    As for why we got into it, it was simply the fact that we were priced out of the better stock and while we might buy the odd few lim it was just getting to be to much to get back into stock while trying to develope the farm.

    As for the meat factory, well there not exactly queing up to take our stock. We have had words over the quality of some of the bulls and we've no set agreement with them but most of the time it runs smoothly enough.

    Two different mixes in the sheds, one store, one beef. Cant remember the exact ratios cos its all written up in the loader and cant really go out and look but the beef mix is almost half concentrates.

    As for margins, well we had two very bad years which nearly sank us. The farm ran into huge debt that had us all a bit worried but we're pullin out of it now. I'll say this though, without the SFP this whole system would be tits up in the morning, I've no doubt whatsoever about that.

    All the developement on the farm has been done with a eye towards moving into dairy (in some part) somewere down the line but at the moment the funds just arent there to do that


  • #269
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

    On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

    You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

    How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

    Hey Blue

    Thanks for that. Was thinking if I shut the water down at the valve the night before the move and hope by morning they'd have emptied the trough for me. Have a big problem with the fookers diggin holes. There's holes on the farm big enough to make sh*t of the jeep

    Was worried it would effect their early morning grazing so if anyone has any ideas on this I'm all ears.

    As for the groups, they're put out in groups of 20-25 but that will vary over the Summer as anyone with any expierence with friesan bulls will tell ya they kick the livin sh*te out of each other and pulling a lad in for pneumonia for a week usually means he wont mix back in. Usually end up with an extra group of rejects made up of the lads pulled out of main groups

    As for margins, well like I said there earlier, for a while there was no margin. Now were beginning to see a small profit from them this year but I couldnt honestly say what it is per head.


  • #270
    poor farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭poor farmer


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    reilig wrote: »
    Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.
    QUOTE]
    Just a couple of questions relig what tyope of chain harrow is it one of the frame type's or is it just an old stlye harrow. Also why do you not put grass seed out befpre slurry I see that some farmers do this.

    When useing wagtail to spread seed what speed do you go at is it very slow. I find it very hard to set wagtail to spread seed as it either spreads way too little or else it spreads just enough for one cover of land and you can get bare patches.

    Yesterday i sowed a 10 acre field with my trusty MF 35 and vicon spreader
    Set spreader at 21 , tractor in second gear , 1 meter between runs ,
    kept going round and round ,
    Used 11 1/2 bags of seed. Job took two hours.


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  • #271
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    p5310178.jpg

    They say if you take just one thing away from a discussion group and put it into practice it's a good thing. I took two (.....so far;)).

    Thanks to boards farm and forestry members for introducing me to these new ideas. I have put them into practice and they are working a treat :)


  • #272
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    Muckit wrote: »
    p5310178.jpg

    They say if you take just one thing away from a discussion group and put it into practice it's a good thing. I took two (.....so far;)).

    Thanks to boards farm and forestry members for introducing me to these new ideas. I have put them into practice and they are working a treat :)


    Nice stock Muckit. Lots of grass to, I'm skint still.
    Proper Gallagher reel aswell, their the only job. Do ya mind me askin ya were you got it?

    In relation to the drinker, how did ya seal the hole were the water comes in?


  • #273
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Dont be daft wrote: »
    Nice stock Muckit. Lots of grass to, I'm skint still.
    Proper Gallagher reel aswell, their the only job. Do ya mind me askin ya were you got it?

    In relation to the drinker, how did ya seal the hole were the water comes in?

    Thanks lad. That ground was newly reseeded ground Autumn 2010.
    Permanent fencing was only done this spring. I did it all myself which kept costs down, but what with doing bits as I got time, the grass got ahead of me :o I'm giving it to them now in small sections to avoid them wasting it.

    Now the reel. I never used or had a reel before, but I said if I was going to get one I'd get a right one. I bought it in a local farm hardware. €50 loops. Pricey.... but looking at ones half the price there was no competition. I was so impressed with the ifrst one, I bought another :) (cost me €55 though) The only thing is that you could have a lad looking in over the ditch taking a fancy to them :rolleyes:

    As for water 'trough'...all is revealed in this tread ;) .....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055596057&page=8


  • #274
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faY97zPdSzQ&feature=related

    Found this video a while back and enquired about locating similar joiners here in Ireland, but no joy:(


  • #275
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Muckit wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faY97zPdSzQ&feature=related

    Found this video a while back and enquired about locating similar joiners here in Ireland, but no joy:(
    Looks like an expensive set-up!

    I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.


  • #276
    island of tighe
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭island of tighe


    just do it wrote: »
    Looks like an expensive set-up!

    I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.

    you must have low water pressure if i tried that here id be trenched every time


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  • #277
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    just do it wrote: »
    Looks like an expensive set-up!

    I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.


    You must have very low pressure to be able to shove fittings together without shutting off water . Is it 3/4" or 1/2" hydrodare? Are you going using the old or the new philmac fittings?


  • #278
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    island of tighe wrote: »
    you must have low water pressure

    snap :D


  • #279
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Dont be daft wrote: »
    Hey Blue

    Thanks for that. Was thinking if I shut the water down at the valve the night before the move and hope by morning they'd have emptied the trough for me. Have a big problem with the fookers diggin holes. There's holes on the farm big enough to make sh*t of the jeep

    Was worried it would effect their early morning grazing so if anyone has any ideas on this I'm all ears.

    As for the groups, they're put out in groups of 20-25 but that will vary over the Summer as anyone with any expierence with friesan bulls will tell ya they kick the livin sh*te out of each other and pulling a lad in for pneumonia for a week usually means he wont mix back in. Usually end up with an extra group of rejects made up of the lads pulled out of main groups

    As for margins, well like I said there earlier, for a while there was no margin. Now were beginning to see a small profit from them this year but I couldnt honestly say what it is per head.

    Maybe turn the water off in the morning and move them in the afternoon. Some of the dairy farmers only give fresh grass in the afternoons because they eat more then and with the higher grass sugar levels you get more energy into them than if they filled themselves up with cold wettish grass in the mornings.

    When we were doing fr bulls at grass it was the corners that they dug up. We found if you moved them every day it wasn't so bad. It was a bit like having a builder in for a few hours every sat, he'd get feck all done, but if he was there for a solid week he'd get a lot more (digging in your case) done.:D I suppose one way to sort it is a loader bucket of topsoil, shake grass seed on it and close the paddock up for a cut of silage.

    Lameness was another problem too, used to walk them over a mat soaked in foot bath (formalin/zinc?) when we moved them to a fresh pen of grass. Never had any bother with pneumonia, but once you take a bull out of a group he can't go back in. Another trick we learned was to put one cull cow in with them, made it very easy to move them, just nudge the cow out first and all the bulls followed her, bitch was always in calf too:pac:

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #280
    poor farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭poor farmer


    I am interested in your comments on dairy bred bulls.I have four groups of 20ish
    on the one farm.Last week the broke my b...ls mixing .All the fields have good electric fencing. I was thinking of putting a couple of groups together.The fields are 10-15 acres. Two of the groups are 16-18 mths ,two others 14-15 months.
    The seem to have settled again I have two runs of the fence about 6 meters apart between each group ,this has helped .

    any comments/help appreciated


  • #281
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    For a 10-15 acre field you could put the water trough in the middle of the field and run temporary fences from the trough out to the edge of the field like as don't be daft has said.

    It looks a bit like spokes of a wheel. You use 3 fences with 2 tri-angle shaped grazing areas, one set up in front of them, and one set up where they are grazing.

    Put the reels in the middle of the field at the trough so when the cattle move you just swop the middle fence over to the other side of the trough. The middle fence now becomes the back fence. You take down what was the back fence and set it up in front of them ready for the next move.

    If grass gets too strong you bale and wrap a corner of the field, fence the bales off in the corner and you have it there for the autumn, keeps them out for maybe a fortnight longer.

    It sounds complicated I know, but the big advantage is that the field is growing grass for about 80% of the time and is being grazed only 20% of the time. I find one permanent strand up the middle of the field across the trough makes it easier, you have stakes either side of the trough to hang the reels on.

    Hope this helps, any questions just fire away

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • #282
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    when lads are using reels and moving strip wires, what's the procedure? A lad could do alot of walking...:rolleyes: What I'm getting at is do you put the stakes down first and then come with the reel? Would be great to do all at once


  • #283
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    island of tighe wrote: »
    you must have low water pressure if i tried that here id be trenched every time
    Sounds like it! It's half inch NG hydrdare and once I keep the join pointed away from me I don't get a drop. New type philmac fittings but rather than pushing the pipe in and tightening I put the red insert and screw on the pipe and push this into the fitting (if that makes sense). I'll get a few photos up on the photo thread the next time I'm doing it.


  • #284
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    just do it wrote: »
    Sounds like it! It's half inch NG hydrdare and once I keep the join pointed away from me I don't get a drop. New type philmac fittings but rather than pushing the pipe in and tightening I put the red insert and screw on the pipe and push this into the fitting (if that makes sense). I'll get a few photos up on the photo thread the next time I'm doing it.

    If you had good pressure you wouldn't be able to push the pipe into the fitting and tighten the nut.

    You want to make sure you don't lose the rubber ring inside in the new fitting :rolleyes: On the old fittings they stayed on the insert.


  • #285
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Maybe turn the water off in the morning and move them in the afternoon. Some of the dairy farmers only give fresh grass in the afternoons because they eat more then and with the higher grass sugar levels you get more energy into them than if they filled themselves up with cold wettish grass in the mornings.

    When we were doing fr bulls at grass it was the corners that they dug up. We found if you moved them every day it wasn't so bad. It was a bit like having a builder in for a few hours every sat, he'd get feck all done, but if he was there for a solid week he'd get a lot more (digging in your case) done.:D I suppose one way to sort it is a loader bucket of topsoil, shake grass seed on it and close the paddock up for a cut of silage.

    Lameness was another problem too, used to walk them over a mat soaked in foot bath (formalin/zinc?) when we moved them to a fresh pen of grass. Never had any bother with pneumonia, but once you take a bull out of a group he can't go back in. Another trick we learned was to put one cull cow in with them, made it very easy to move them, just nudge the cow out first and all the bulls followed her, bitch was always in calf too:pac:


    Thanks for that, was always wondering when the best time to move 'em was.

    With regards to holes we have little minidigger on backfill duty then we set up a gammy lookin fence around the hole. Like you said there nearly always in the corners so we can put it straight onto the current. The strip wires get moved everyday but the ****ers still love diggin the sh*te out of the place

    We had two footbaths put in after the years of constant lameness and if the bulls are in the crush area for what ever reason they get run through 'em. After a few years I copped what was makin them lame.
    Whether mixed or not they do the odd bit of riding and when they come down off a lad they nip his back feet with their front feet. Small cut then gets infected and becomes a big problem.

    Now we look at their feet as we're checkin them, if we see a cut we either make a note of it if its only small or pull the bull in and spray it with alamycin, maybe a shot of bimoxy if its bad. This is why the roadways are so vital. I could spot a bull with a cut, have him washed down, sprayed, injected and back into the group in 30mins.

    The cull cow idea is genious. Never thought of that


  • #286
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    poor farmer wrote: »
    I am interested in your comments on dairy bred bulls.I have four groups of 20ish
    on the one farm.Last week the broke my b...ls mixing .All the fields have good electric fencing. I was thinking of putting a couple of groups together.The fields are 10-15 acres. Two of the groups are 16-18 mths ,two others 14-15 months.
    The seem to have settled again I have two runs of the fence about 6 meters apart between each group ,this has helped .

    any comments/help appreciated


    The only way to run bulls without them mixing is to keep a paddock between them. 6 meters is better than having them beside each other but unless its steel wire on wooden stakes they're probably gonna mix again.
    I've seen a bull go through 3 strands of that polywire down to another group. I put him back in with his own group and within 5 mins he went through the same 3 sets of wire again. It was cracking off his back every time but he didnt giv a flyin f*ck. Put him in behind a strand of HT wire and he stayed put.


    We have two groups of 35 on a rented farm so big groups can work. But thats only because we weren't gonna dish out the money to fence it into small fields.
    There not ideal though and I'd avoid it.
    We always have a few that turn nasty when they come of age. Easy to pick them out and keep them in the corner of your eye when he's 1 among 20, a lot harder if he was 1 among 40.
    I find them harded to check in bigger groups and theres usually a lot more fighting and riding within the group.

    Little trick we did was to tag one group with a single small tag. That way if they mix it'll be easier to seperate them.


  • #287
    5 star
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭5 star


    just do it wrote: »
    What was the bil you used last year?

    Your young bull's figures are likely to change alright. I can't say I know all the data ICBF use but kill out weights are definitely one if them for beef carcase.

    Used Saler bull LZR no prob calving. Calves were very small when born but started to swell after about six weeks fine square calves now.


  • #288
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Dont be daft wrote: »
    ....We're running a Dairy Bull Beef system finishing between 19 and 22 months depending on the animal.

    So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.


  • #289
    PatQfarmer
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭PatQfarmer


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

    On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

    You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

    How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

    Great idea to put the T on the tank! Saves all the blanks:) why didn't I think of that? Simple is always best. Thanks.


  • #290
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    pakalasa wrote: »
    So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.

    Feed 2kg's at grass from late july house 1st October will be ready after christmass or the better ones before. Trick is to keep them soft before housing depends onhow good they are coming out of house and what breed freisians,holsteins, hex,lmx and angus dairy bread all kill different.


  • #291
    Dont be daft
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Dont be daft


    pakalasa wrote: »
    So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.

    Exactly as Pudsey put it. Start feeding meal from July on. Some would be finished off the grass and some would be housed Octoberish then killed from the shed.
    With our set up there's such a variation even within the Friesans that it really is different for every animal. Their housed according to weight so the pens would be coming fit at roughly the same time. After that its just a case of pulling them out. Would be killing from September through till Febuary believe or not.


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  • #292
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    PatQfarmer wrote: »
    Great idea to put the T on the tank! Saves all the blanks:) why didn't I think of that? Simple is always best. Thanks.
    +1. Thanks blue. I haven't laid the line around the silage fields yet so you've saved me a few bob. ~10 joiners & 1 T is alot cheaper than 10 T's and blanks!


  • #293
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    I few people were looking for this. I downloaded it a few years ago but have shy'd away from filling it in as I know the result won't be good. I plan to do it this year though, and probably do it for 2010, 2011 & 2012 while I'm at it.

    P.S. If anyone has done up an excel version of this would you mind posting it up here. It will save me the bother of doing it in a few months time:cool:


  • #294
    cathalmac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭cathalmac


    Fair play to all the lads that posted on bull beef finishing.

    I'm just going on previous personal experience from a few years back but I nearly always found it hard enough to get a good enough kill out on the dairy bull to ensure that I covered costs. Will the recent increases in the prices of concentrate have a serious effect on your margins for the coming year? Do you still feel it will be profitable?


  • #295
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    cathalmac wrote: »
    Fair play to all the lads that posted on bull beef finishing.

    I'm just going on previous personal experience from a few years back but I nearly always found it hard enough to get a good enough kill out on the dairy bull to ensure that I covered costs. Will the recent increases in the prices of concentrate have a serious effect on your margins for the coming year? Do you still feel it will be profitable?

    I think the factories are going to have to accept that it is pointless putting a ton of meal into these animals just to get a few mm of fat on them. Most of the meat goes for manufacturing (burgers pies mince etc.) Realistically the only way to make any money off these is to kill them off grass at about 550kg LW regardless of the fat grade. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps the steak cuts are better with meal?

    What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #296
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    blue5000 wrote: »

    What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

    Or silage vs the weather :rolleyes:


  • #297
    1chippy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    Got a letter from the btap discussion group to say that i am ineligable.I have been to the first couple of meetings and no problem. My parents use a teagasc advisor to fill out all subs and grant forms. I didnt help out a few years back as thought it was intruding on their income, however when i enquired about being ineligable i was informed by the department that the weaning weights were never filled for 2010 so this is what makes us ineligable.
    Has anyone any info or help.
    I tried contacting the teagasc advisor 12 times last week and still waiting on a reply. I will be apealing the case. how do i go about it? Whats the possability of claiming the suckler cow welfare for 2010, or is it a lost cause. Any help would be great.


  • #298
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    blue5000 wrote: »
    I think the factories are going to have to accept that it is pointless putting a ton of meal into these animals just to get a few mm of fat on them. Most of the meat goes for manufacturing (burgers pies mince etc.) Realistically the only way to make any money off these is to kill them off grass at about 550kg LW regardless of the fat grade. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps the steak cuts are better with meal?

    What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

    most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.


  • #299
    KCTK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭KCTK


    bob charles wrote: »
    most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

    Totally agree, we used be at bull beef and it is simply the biggest pain in the @rse ever, from bulls getting injured to field being absoultey wrecked when you get a bit of bad weather, used not be too bad fattening them in houses but that was with rows of electric fence wire a few feet over their heads to stop them jumping on each other and loads of meals to keep them too full to think about fighting!!!


  • #300
    5 star
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭5 star


    1chippy wrote: »
    Got a letter from the btap discussion group to say that i am ineligable.I have been to the first couple of meetings and no problem. My parents use a teagasc advisor to fill out all subs and grant forms. I didnt help out a few years back as thought it was intruding on their income, however when i enquired about being ineligable i was informed by the department that the weaning weights were never filled for 2010 so this is what makes us ineligable.
    Has anyone any info or help.
    I tried contacting the teagasc advisor 12 times last week and still waiting on a reply. I will be apealing the case. how do i go about it? Whats the possability of claiming the suckler cow welfare for 2010, or is it a lost cause. Any help would be great.

    Got d same letter I only applied for scws this year as did not have cows before this year also fell between two stools in that I kept all d cattle for slaughter until after Xmas leaving me only slaughtering 13 n 2011. I had to appeal n writing stating my case. I got n contact with teagasc adviser and he said that I could still attend the meetings and if my appeal is rejected I can apply again next year which will b based on 2012 slaughter figures. Don't know anything bout scws though I'd say ur best bet is to appeal with a sob story for 2010 and see how u go


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  • #301
    5 star
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭5 star


    bob Charles wrote:


    most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.


    I have 12 bulls this year n one group which u would imagine should b easy to manage with d small number. On Thursday with d heavy rain two angus bulls started fighting and stayed at it for nearly 2 hours. After about 45 mins I decided I should do something to prevent injury so I moved them all into a new paddock thinking that they would put d heads down. They did for about 5 mins and then started fighting again and pushed each other throughout 2 strands of wire. Along with this both paddocks are red. Never again anything that's not fit to be finished out of d shed at 16 months next year will be squeezed and I think I'll b buying heifers from here on.


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