How far has craft beer come in Ireland?

MadsL · 17-11-2015 11:07pm #1

I have been gone for four years and landed in the US in one of the epicentres of the craft brewing explosion. Can't throw a stone without hitting a brewery.

I left when Galway Hooker was about the sum of it, and there were a few Czech places in Dublin importing decent beer. Of course there was the Porterhouse...

How much has craft brewing taken off in Ireland in the past four years?

Amirani · 17-11-2015 11:09pm

It really has grown massively. There are few pubs without some form of "alternative" offering outside the traditional beers now. The number of breweries has jumped hugely, and there seems to be much greater public engagement about it. Some of the breweries really are doing some fantastic stuff.

MadsL · 17-11-2015 11:55pm

Amirani wrote: »

It really has grown massively. There are few pubs without some form of "alternative" offering outside the traditional beers now. The number of breweries has jumped hugely, and there seems to be much greater public engagement about it. Some of the breweries really are doing some fantastic stuff.

Good to see some choice at last, anyone in the trade know if Diageo are a bit less aggressive about protecting the macros by threatening to take out the Guinness?

Any highlighted breweries? Standouts?

L1011 · 18-11-2015 10:17am

MadsL wrote: »

Good to see some choice at last, anyone in the trade know if Diageo are a bit less aggressive about protecting the macros by threatening to take out the Guinness?

Any highlighted breweries? Standouts?

Diageo have their own faux-craft products they try (and usually succeed) in getting in to bars that are selling crafts - some various Smithwicks versions and a hopped up lager called Hophouse 13 that has basically replaced Harp outside of Louth. Heineken have also gone down this road.

New (since you left) startup called Rye River is probably the biggest non-macro brewer in the country with their own brands (McGargles) and white label for Tesco and Lidl. O'Haras/Carlow Brewing are still big and available on bottle at least in vast numbers of pubs now and most supermarkets.

I've long since lost count of the number of breweries, but theres probably 50 producing their own product at least, fair few pubs in each of the cities that only sell Irish craft + imported products, mass improvement in what offlicences sell, every supermarket having its own brand product made by an Irish brewer, etc, etc.

schemingbohemia · 18-11-2015 1:10pm

Think being in O'Connells on South Richmond Street on Friday and seeing a fridge full of Dungarvan/O'Haras/Galway Bay beers made me realise how far we've come.

Mesrine65 · 18-11-2015 1:36pm

http://www.beoir.org/index.php/craft-beer-directories/breweries

snowblind · 18-11-2015 5:08pm

Standouts: 8 Degrees, White Hag, Kinnegar, Galway Bay

There are lots of new breweries and beers, but the average quality isn't that great at the moment I feel. A lot of the new breweries I tried at the RDS festival were quite bad

The supermarket offerings of O'Haras, McGargles etc can be quite disappointing if you're comparing to quality american brews. The core selection of some of the good breweries can be bland too (see 8 degrees, their hoppy specials are where it's at). Some breweries hop between great and meh (Trouble Brewing) and some have been around and never produced anything worthwhile (Dungarvan, IMO).

Especially with newer beer trends coming in such as barrel aged beers, sours, saisons...a lot of middling stuff. But at least there are finally decent fresh and local hoppy beers that trump the imported classics.

oblivious · 18-11-2015 7:43pm

L1011 wrote: »

I've long since lost count of the number of breweries, but theres probably 50 producing their own product at least, fair few pubs in each of the cities that only sell Irish craft + imported products, mass improvement in what offlicences sell, every supermarket having its own brand product made by an Irish brewer, etc, etc.

79 including both own brewery and contract across the island

oblivious · 18-11-2015 7:46pm

The s still a big and growing fight for tap and fridge space. With Molson , C&C and Guniness all looking for space. Unfortunately sometimes targeting small independent breweries

murphyebass · 18-11-2015 7:57pm

Massive change in Dublin in particular in recent years with a few more pubs doing a proper selection of craft beers like Against the Grain for example. Fantastic spot.

Thankfully even outside of the capital lots of pubs are at least stocking a few bottles of the bigger craft breweries.

As for other breweries though in general god there's buckets of them.

Standout for me are Galway bay, 8 degrees and to a slighter lesser extent Kinnegar.

What I mean by standout I should expand on is breweries I buy from regularly.

I picked up a couple of bears from brothers brewing I think they're called the other day and the two I've had were very good and have a double IPA still to go. Pretty small batch stuff so can be expensive but I don't mind paying if it's good.

Some poor stuff as well out there as another poster mentioned.
Tried a couple of beers from a Drogheda brewery recently that was muck. Can't think of the name of the brewery at this minute.

Still more good than bad out there now imo. Great to have such a great selection of Irish craft in offies

I've started brewing a little recently with a friend doing extract stuff and I think anyone into decent beer should give it a go as it really gets you thinking of the genius behind some of these beers. Hard work and great recipes.

One ticked off the auld bucket list

Lucena · 18-11-2015 8:21pm

Definitely a big improvement in Dublin. However walk into a pub down the country and the chances of seeing a craft tap are rather low.

SteeveeDee · 18-11-2015 9:27pm

snowblind wrote: »

Some breweries hop between great and meh (Trouble Brewing) and some have been around and never produced anything worthwhile (Dungarvan, IMO).

:eek::eek::eek::eek: Whhhaaaa!! The Dungarvan core range on cask are impeccable beers! Probably the best cask offerings of any Irish brewery. I'm thinking this is more of a taste issue as you seem to hold the American offerings in high regard which tend to be far hoppier or more recently and my own personal nag is the tendency to make stouts as if to ween 5 year old's of hershey bars!

I agree with your standout breweries alright,some great beers being made there. I'd suggest West Kerry Brewery, Sweetmans, Mescan and White Gypsy (of course) too.

ben.schlomo · 19-11-2015 11:27am

SteeveeDee wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek: Whhhaaaa!! The Dungarvan core range on cask are impeccable beers! Probably the best cask offerings of any Irish brewery. I'm thinking this is more of a taste issue as you seem to hold the American offerings in high regard which tend to be far hoppier or more recently and my own personal nag is the tendency to make stouts as if to ween 5 year old's of hershey bars!

I agree with your standout breweries alright,some great beers being made there. I'd suggest West Kerry Brewery, Sweetmans, Mescan and White Gypsy (of course) too.

I think Dungarvan's Blackrock Stout is excellent. White Gypsy ive always found to be a let down though.

draiochtanois · 19-11-2015 11:37am

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Aglomerado · 19-11-2015 11:50am

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I think Dungarvan's Blackrock Stout is excellent.

Their Coffee and Oatmeal Stout is a cracker as well.

Lucena · 19-11-2015 11:53am

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Surprised by this remark. Most so-so craft beer would be, in my opinion, still better than drinking whatever macro lager is available in your local. Unless you're talking about beer that has a defect. The only drawback I would see is the fact of paying a premium for something sub-standard.

oblivious · 19-11-2015 12:13pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Really gone done hill in the last years or two IMHO, but nothing compared to the fall of their wheat beer

Geuze · 19-11-2015 12:16pm

snowblind wrote: »

Standouts: 8 Degrees, White Hag, Kinnegar, Galway Bay

GBB seem to be both successful brewers, and publicans.

I am lucky to have 3-4 White Hag taps in one of my local pubs, through not always are all taps active.

draiochtanois · 19-11-2015 12:26pm

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irish_goat · 19-11-2015 12:33pm

oblivious wrote: »

Really gone done hill in the last years or two IMHO, but nothing compared to the fall of their wheat beer

Might pick up now that they're brewing it in Cork again.

oblivious · 19-11-2015 12:45pm

irish_goat wrote: »

Might pick up now that they're brewing it in Cork again.

Will we be sure all of will ?

MadsL · 19-11-2015 3:27pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Craft beer is considerably more expensive to brew than the macros, part of the reason craft beer has taken off so much in the US is very favourable excise duty rates for small breweries which helps them compete. Typical price for a craft pint (US pints are smaller!) is $4-5. But you can still buy a PBR or Bud for $2-3.

draiochtanois · 19-11-2015 3:51pm

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snowblind · 19-11-2015 4:17pm

Oh I should've warned about the price complainers. Diageo has managed to determine the price allowed for a pint in Ireland and any deviation will cause a ruckus. Regardless of it's a sour beer barrel aged for 2 years or whatever. Over a fiver for a pint means the brewery is taking the piss, price gouging, responsible for Greece going bankrupt etc.

MadsL · 19-11-2015 4:37pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Consider the overheads of starting a craft brewery;

Equipment is in the range of $45-50k for a three barrel system, then you have all the overheads associated with setting up a new business, insurance, packaging (new kegs are about $100 each) wages (salaried servers rather than tip based in the US) and not least is the tens of thousands of euros to get a manufacturers licence that would allow you to sell direct. http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/expensive-licensing-laws-holding-irish-microbrewers-back-30811257.html

The cost of grain and hops at the nano-scale is massive compared to the unit costs of the big boys, imagine the discounts you get on a silo of grain compared to the small guys buying 50lb sacks. Same with hops. Craft beers use massive amounts of hops compared to the lightly hopped macro euro-lagers and Guinness. 44lbs of Cascade pellets runs almost $500, and thast just 7-10 brews when you are brewing 90 gallons at a time on a 3BB system.
180+lbs of grain going into each batch = $100 - $150.

I know someone running a successful nano locally, he can just about pay himself $2500 a month, and he sells direct.

Your one euro and change price differential goes on quality ingredients, not making someone rich.

MadsL · 19-11-2015 4:51pm

Here's a good comparison;

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=281814621
http://www.greenearthorganics.ie/cheese-and-olives/cheddar-vintage-little-milk-co.-120g.html

Do you think the vintage cheddar should be the same price as the Tesco brand?

MadsL · 19-11-2015 4:55pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

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What sucks about this is that it is a repayment scheme, you have to pay the tax and claim the repayment. In the US the tax collected is lower in the first place, this means one of the economic barrier to entry for craft brewing is lower.

You are basically fronting 50% of the tax rate.

Subcomandante Marcos · 19-11-2015 4:58pm

MadsL wrote: »

What sucks about this is that it is a repayment scheme, you have to pay the tax and claim the repayment. In the US the tax collected is lower in the first place, this means one of the economic barrier to entry for craft brewing is lower.

You are basically fronting 50% of the tax rate.

They've just changed the rebate system, breweries don't have to pay it and then reclaim it anymore from the start of the next tax year.

MadsL · 19-11-2015 5:00pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They've just changed the rebate system, breweries don't have to pay it and then reclaim it anymore from the start of the next tax year.

Good. Because it was a particularly stupid way to treat a job creation industry.

draiochtanois · 19-11-2015 5:12pm

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MadsL · 19-11-2015 5:25pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

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But this example ISN'T made in the same plant, and Kerrygold is just premium branding. I'm asking you to compare a craft cheesemaker with factory produced.

Your butter analogy is the same as saying, oh, Stella Artois is "reassuringly expensive" so craft brewers should match Stella pricing.

You dodged the question very well so I'll ask it slightly differently, "Do you think that vintage cheddar should be the same price as the Tesco brand?"

How far has craft beer come in Ireland?

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