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Rabbitte caught in the Independent headlights

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    #2
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    When he says it will destroy Irish politics, what he actually means is that it will destroy the Irish political establishment.
    Happy days.


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    #3
    Badabing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭Badabing


    Rabbite i think will have to run in the next election if not labour haven't a hope getting a seat in DSW, ditto Brian Hayes he might be made come back from Europe.


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    #4
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    For a change I agree with the the points that Rabbitte made in the link.

    People like Paul Murphy will solve nothing, nor will an exceptional amount of independents.
    Plus I don't agree with a budget spending spree.


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    #5
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    RobertKK wrote: »
    For a change I agree with the the points that Rabbitte made in the link.

    People like Paul Murphy will solve nothing, nor will an exceptional amount of independents.
    Plus I don't agree with a budget spending spree.

    They might solve the phony manifesto problem to a certain extent. Independents don't have a whip to hide behind, they have to act in a way which their constituents are happy with or they're screwed.


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    #6
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    RobertKK wrote: »
    For a change I agree with the the points that Rabbitte made in the link.

    People like Paul Murphy will solve nothing, nor will an exceptional amount of independents.
    Plus I don't agree with a budget spending spree.

    The points Rabbitte made are to appease the elite, ie maintain the status quo that is the corrupt establishment. What has he himself ever actually solved.?
    Should we bring back Bertie.? or maybe make Lowry a minister again?
    Would thet "solve" things.?

    In a nutshell, Rabbitte is only concerned about himself and his cronies, don't be fooled.;)


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    #7
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    washman3 wrote: »
    What has he himself ever actually solved.?

    To be fair, he did manage to solve the conundrum about how to continue massively overpaying celebrity presenters at RTE with the universal broadcasting charge proposal. Isn't he great?!


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    #8
    gugleguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭gugleguy


    washman3 wrote: »
    what has he himself ever actually solved.?

    In a nutshell, Rabbitte is only concerned about himself and his cronies, don't be fooled.;)
    Rabbitte's best achievement is that denouncement of Pat Carey on Prime time.

    Who's Pat Carey these days? I don't cre.

    Mr Rabbitte as a start you are ignorant. To do that on Prime Time.

    But you're cushdy and that is another notch for ya.

    That's what I will say is faulty in Irish Politics.


    I don't give a hoot how Pat Carey ends up.

    Mr Rabbitte I have no respect for you. You're very cliquey as well as partial to a rant in the face of deskside opposition on current affairs television


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    #9
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    He has a very short memory, I have no time for them ex sticky members who forget where they came from.


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    #10
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    A disparate lot of independents will not be able to agree policy to form a government.


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    #11
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    They might solve the phony manifesto problem to a certain extent. Independents don't have a whip to hide behind, they have to act in a way which their constituents are happy with or they're screwed.


    The only country to operate without a whip system is the US which a result has allowed big business to buy each politician for the vote they want. Thus, they will vote for a big tax break for Apple while also voting for a small concession in their locality.


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    #12
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Godge wrote: »
    The only country to operate without a whip system is the US which a result has allowed big business to buy each politician for the vote they want. Thus, they will vote for a big tax break for Apple while also voting for a small concession in their locality.

    US politics does not operate without a whip system. I don't know the ins and outs of it though.
    Both houses of Congress, the House of Representatives and Senate, have majority and minority whips. They in turn have subordinate "regional" whips. While members of Congress often vote along party lines, the influence of the whip is weaker than in the UK system.

    Source


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    #13
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    The political system is in meltdown in the western world. Politicians have bankrupted nations through greed and stupidity. Independent is the way forward, nothing would get done.


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    #14
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #15
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Well at least we have the pension reserve fund.... oh wait, Labour and FG spent a lot of it


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    #16
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Awkward Badger wrote: »
    US politics does not operate without a whip system. I don't know the ins and outs of it though.

    The whip system is ineffective in the US. Democrats and Republicans regularly vote on the other side. Pork Barrel Politics is worse than over here.


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    #17
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The unfunded pension mandate is €400 bn & climbing.

    In the context of this thread, no party or indie has the grapes to mention it.


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    #18
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,842 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Bring it on Pat, I just hope you live long enough to see your inexcusably large pension obliterated, might jog your memory as to the full impact of real hardship.


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    #19
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    To be fair to Pat Rabbitte he has a point. Most Independents are single issue candidates and they are doing National politics a disservice because once they are involved in decisions or discussions outside their area of interest they really are not contributing to the solution on the wider issues a national parliamentarian should be dealing with.

    To balance this up all of our political parties have been coasting for years never actually facing down the real problems of Irish society and not being proactive in planning ahead for the actual needs of the country. The time is ripe for a party to form that is decoupled from the politics of the past, be it undue religious interference, the cronyism of the main parties and the violence of some of the others.


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    #20
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    gandalf wrote: »
    To be fair to Pat Rabbitte he has a point. Most Independents are single issue candidates and they are doing National politics a disservice because once they are involved in decisions or discussions outside their area of interest they really are not contributing to the solution on the wider issues a national parliamentarian should be dealing with.

    To balance this up all of our political parties have been coasting for years never actually facing down the real problems of Irish society and not being proactive in planning ahead for the actual needs of the country. The time is ripe for a party to form that is decoupled from the politics of the past, be it undue religious interference, the cronyism of the main parties and the violence of some of the others.

    Idealistically you are right. But politics doesn't work that way. Politics is like a sponge, sponge your country and tax payers for what you can. Is it any wonder that the US has accumulated almost $18 trillion of debt? The likes of George Bush and his great party would like to blame independents for that sorry mess. Anyway, George need not worry.


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    #21
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Idealistically you are right. But politics doesn't work that way. Politics is like a sponge, sponge your country and tax payers for what you can. Is it any wonder that the US has accumulated almost $18 trillion of debt? The likes of George Bush and his great party would like to blame independents for that sorry mess. Anyway, George need not worry.

    Obama has added the most debt, it was $9. something trillion when he took over.


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    #22
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Obama has added the most debt, it was $9. something trillion when he took over.

    Exactly, doesn't matter what party you vote for. They will cause economic carnage. Blaming independents will only fool the intellectually challenged.


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    #23
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Exactly, doesn't matter what party you vote for. They will cause economic carnage. Blaming independents will only fool the intellectually challenged.

    You want to tell us the countries that operate successfully without a "political establishment"?

    Independents are a frivolous luxury.


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    #24
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    First Up wrote: »
    You want to tell us the countries that operate successfully without a "political establishment"?

    Independents are a frivolous luxury.

    Give me a ming flanagan over bertie ahern anyday. ;)


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    #25
    Davarus Walrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Give me a ming flanagan over bertie ahern anyday. ;)

    I'd rather neither.


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    #26
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    A few more Indies like Stephen Donnelly & the tarnished reputation of indie TDs may recover.


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    #27
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Give me a ming flanagan over bertie ahern anyday. ;)

    Doesn't answer the question


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    #28
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Davarus Walrus wrote: »
    I'd rather neither.

    I can agree with this, there are far too many of them. Most of them probably have no qualifications.


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    #29
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    First Up wrote: »
    Doesn't answer the question


    You didn't ask a question. ;)


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    #30
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    A few more Indies like Stephen Donnelly & the tarnished reputation of indie TDs may recover.

    It isn't about reputation. It's about having a government that can design and implement effective policies.
    A bunch of single issue candidates, or people elected on a "protest" platform are just background noise while the real work gets done by the grown ups.


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    #31
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Rightwing wrote: »
    You didn't ask a question. ;)

    I asked what countries operate successfully without a political establishment.


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