Cork GAA Discussion Thread

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Just back into work in London after that weekend - some party on last night, I finshed at 2, left the hotel around 5 and they were still going. I still cannot believe it - super team. Juliet is going for good this time from what I've heard.

you were right.She said it in the paper today.

What a player,and what a way to retire ,on the greatest stage of all,a point at the end,that was so good to grace any final,mens or womens!!!

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

So long story short, back to the 1998-2008 format, a move I would fully agree with. I don't really get why that format was ever scrapped in the first place....

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You could mess around with the format of the knockout stages but it would be pretty much the same system.

If you look at the 12 teams that currently make up Division 1 and Division 1A, with the exception of Antrim and Laois, any of the other teams could beat each other on any given day. Realistically you have 8 very competitive teams, but Offaly and Wexford aren't that far behind. For instance, Offaly put up a good showing against Kilkenny this year in the championship, and Wexford drew with Clare in a qualifier before losing out in extra time.

So, why should Offaly and Wexford in particular lose out if the format of the league is changed again as will be proposed. The possible new format will not aid their development at all. It will just let them slip even further behind

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

No change to structure of hurling league before 2015
Friday, April 19, 2013
Regardless of what proposals may be brought to Central Council regarding a change to the current structure of the Allianz Hurling League, Cork, Limerick, Offaly,
GAA communications manager Alan Milton yesterday confirmed any efforts to change the league formats would have to go before Central Council — but not before 2015.

“We haven’t heard anything yet from any county, but if anyone wants to propose changing the current format they can bring it to Central Council, that’s the forum for any such discussions,” he said.

“Because it’s not a rule change it doesn’t have to go before Congress. There’s no urgency though, the current structure will be in place for 2014 and that will not change. The earliest that anything can happen is 2015, and that’s if the appetite is there among the counties.”

Despite the mounting dissatisfaction with the current structure, which was only introduced in 2012 and tweaked for 2013, the complaints from several high-profile managers that the lack of games doesn’t allow for experimentation and the complaints from several high-profile counties about lost revenue, that appetite for change may not be shared elsewhere.

“Central Council has only recently come to the end of a lengthy and very thorough debate on this,” he said. “I don’t know if there was ever before such deliberation in the GAA on a competition and its structure, certainly not in recent times.

“Any county is entitled to bring it up again, but whether or not there’s an appetite to tackle it again, I don’t know.”

However, contrary to the common notion the format was created by officials in Croke Park, it was in fact a structure voted in by the counties themselves.

“Every county has representation on the Central Council and as with all other GAA matters, every county voted on this,” Milton explained.

“It’s the same if it’s a proposal dealing with football only. Every delegate from every county has a vote, that’s how Central Council operates, as a unit. There were three separate formats up for discussion, one from the Hurling Development Workgroup committee, one from the CCC and one from the Management Committee. The first two proposed the six-team groups, the Management Committee proposal was for an eight-team division.

“So seriously was the discussion taken that the vote was actually postponed on the first occasion to allow the delegates more time to tease out the different proposals. I think everyone appreciated that this was a big decision, a big call, and no-one wanted it rushed.

“When the vote was taken, they decided on the current set-up. The hope at Central Council was that this decision would put the issue to bed for a number of years, that the new structures would be given a chance to bed in, that we would get some degree of consistency in the competition, of permanency.

“We were trying to get away from the idea of constant chopping and changing. It was a very democratic forum, the way this structure was introduced.”

Judging by the reaction from the bigger hurling counties now, however, it’s certainly drawn out a majority of detractors. However, the current format has its defenders and there are positives emerging.

“It could be argued that already it’s working. When you look at how it all ended up in Division 1A, everything coming down to the final round of games, that generated huge interest.

“But something everyone seems to be overlooking is just how competitive all the other divisions have become — that was one of the ideas behind this structure. Next year you’re going to have Laois back up in Division 1B and with Cork, Limerick, Offaly, Wexford and Antrim, it’s going to be a competitive division again.

“The bottom line is that if any county wants to revisit this they can start the process, they’re entitled to do that, but it will take a sea change from the current opinion.”

Typical!

I think alot of other counties would prefer if Cork stayed up Division 1 because Cork would have a bigger pull in terms of attendances at matches and in terms of tv viewer figures for TG4. So, it's not just Cork that would want a format change! There are other vested interests.

I don't understand why the GAA have such convoluted structures and rules. No one is happy with the current league format. It's not just the intercounty managers throwing their toys out of the pram like they did with the sin bin which ironically enough was probably a better solution than the black card rule! The managers, the county boards, and the fans are all unhappy with the current league system. Imagine a situation where the two All-Ireland finalists contested a league relegation battle. It makes no sense!

I think Cork made a conscious decision this year to target championship. They simply weren't up to the pace of things during the league. On the other hand, Kilkenny and Tipperary focused too much on the league and this clearly affected their championship performances.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You cant argue with your points,their valid.

The point is do the rule shouldnt be changed just cause were relegated.Limerick were wronged two years ago.

By the rules last year we werent gd enough,and cork must be accountable on the field of play like 31 other counties.


I have no bother,them changing it,bt should be 2015 like they admantly said it would be.Counties kmw in advance.
It makes the relegation play of look comical now.

I don't think the format should be changed to accommodate Cork. I don't think it will make a massive difference to Cork's development in 2014. The fact that Dublin and Limerick were in Division 1A didn't affect their championship performances this year. The four semi-finalists came from the top two teams in Division 1A and the bottom two teams in Division 1. I think Clare were unlucky with certain results so that explains why they found themselves in a relegation battle. The only reason that Waterford stayed up was that Michael Ryan took the league seriously.

I wonder will Cody or Eamon Ryan take the league as seriously next year in 2014?

The one argument I can never accept is that there are too many games. If you look at Cork footballers this year they had 7 league games (9 if they reached semi-final and final), and in the championship Cork had 5 games this year ( 7 if they reached and played in the final). Cork hurlers had 5 games (6 because of relegation play off) and in the championship 6 including the All-Ireland final replay. That's not a huge amount of games. The players are back training from the first week of Decemeber and only play their first game in February. Then there's a sizeable break between end of league and the start of championship and then you can have a crazy situation of 5 weeks between provincial success and either a quarter-final in football or a semi-final in hurling. I think a master calendar with a league game and subsequently a championship game being played every 2-3 weeks would be more satisfactory, and would be much better for preparation by coaches.

I'm sure players would prefer more games and less training if given the choice. I know there is a separate argument with respect to club games. Time should be made for club games but surely the spacing between games at intercounty level should be structured better.

In any case, club fixtures are not going to be given any serious heed by intercounty managers. For instance, Jim McGuinness has got the ok from the Donegal county board that club games will not be played while Donegal are still involved at intercounty level. The Ulster Council may force Donegal's hand and play club games without intercounty footballers or alternatively be excluded from Ulster championship. I can't see that happening though.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Cork have way more club games though.


The hurlers wnt be allowed train til jan over the training ban as we played up to sept,the footballers can start in december.

Fair enough. But realistically, while Cork hurlers may not be participating in group sessions they will have individual programmes from management that they will be expected to follow during training ban. In theory the training ban is a great idea but is impractical in terms of enforcement because you can't stop individuals doing gym work. I'm not that up on their individual programmes but I'd imagine an intercounty player's diet would change very little over the 12 months.

Some interesting that I came across was the interview with MD McCawley and Ger Brennan on Second Captains last week. Seemingly the Dublin footballers were allowed to go drinking after the Kerry game. I'm sure it was a once off to blow off steam but it doesn't sound like that bad an idea to give players a night off after a big game.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Yeah i saw that where they told as a joke n lads to go gavins house.

Ah yeah in moderation its fine.A fw cork lads had a few after the ist game,nothing majior.I wouldnt begrude any player a few pints..

I missed cusack on it?any good

He wasn't great. With the format of Second Captains they have 3 guests on for 10 mins or so and it's more general conversation. Then they focus on one big guest like Sonia O'Sullivan. So, Cusack was good but he didn't get much of a chance. Gooch will be a guest tonight. It's the last in the series. Only 4 episodes. It's on too late at night. I don't know why they can't put it on at 9 or 930. Surely it could slot in at that time on a Sunday night now that the The Sunday game is finished.

GOALS.....GOALS......jammy goals to leave in...Shane O' Neill was at fault in the 5 goals(3 Conor O Sullivan), to have been so close and score 3-16 both days(which would have won half of the finals the last decade...is some achievement from a team of hurlers that were expected to be dead and buried by Kilkenny.

In the replay, the 5th goal should have been disallowed, did we hit more wides than 1st final?Horgan in 1st half should have got a penalty, Nash should have had his free on 21 also. ..small details that would have got us over the line...even without the sloppy goals.

Blue Magic wrote: »

Brillant lad presume u can order them sumwhere?

Blue Magic wrote: »

They're class alright.

They're up for a competition on that Nash Facebook page with 20,000+ followers!

"Nash on the "1 - 12 on the line" the page is called... Or something like that

Thanks blue class man

CAN WE ADD SOME DUALS TO THE CROWN?

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 03, 2013


DESPITE their inspirational efforts this summer, and the fact they were agonisingly close to being All-Ireland champions, the Cork hurlers need to bolster their squad for 2014.
The panel is young and gifted, but is lacking a bit of physicality to strengthen the half-back line and direct, powerful attackers to compliment mercurial hurlers like Patrick Horgan and Conor Lehane.
Imagine if Aidan Walsh or Ciarán Sheehan had been contesting Anthony Nash’s puck-outs last weekend.
If Eoin Cadogan and Damien Cahalane had been around to thunder into Pat Donnellan charged up the centre to tee-up Shane O’Donnell’s opening goal.
If Paudie O’Sullivan had been breaking from deep to feed off Pa Cronin on the edge of the square.
While the buzz is back with Cork hurling, the reality is the team won’t find the path to redemption straightforward. This isn’t like 2003 when you could be certain the Rebels would return with a vengeance.
Kilkenny, Tipp and Clare are ahead of Cork in the betting for Liam MacCarthy 2014, while Dublin are in a strong position too. The base is there for Cork to be champions, but they require re-enforcements.
That means recruiting some of the talented dual players in the football ranks for next season. It’s not ideal, indeed it might not even work out given the pressure Eoin Cadogan was under as a fully-fledged Cork dual defender in 2011 and 2012, but it’s a risk you can be sure Jimmy Barry-Murphy and his selectors would be willing to take.
There are few if any hidden gems on the club scene in Cork that haven’t been given an opportunity to impress. The best U21s, Chris Joyce, Conor Lehane and Jamie Coughlan, are already established seniors.
Rob O’Shea, Alan Cadogan, Colm Spillane and Patrick O’Mahony were also on the fringes of the side over the summer, with Eoin’s younger brother Alan, a nimble corner-forward, likely to see action in the league next year.
Spillane, Mark Ellis, Eoin Keane and Killian Murphy (a late sub last Saturday against Clare) will be eager to push for berths in a defence that wasn’t mean or dominant enough in the air in the All-Ireland deciders. But let’s not underestimate the step up.
Joyce is developing into a decent half-back, despite being hampered by featuring in minor and U21 sides that didn’t get out of the province, but it hasn’t been a seamless transition to senior. And he’s a much more vaunted prospect than the other young defenders.
All indications are that Walsh and Sheehan, who trained behind closed doors with the hurlers in recent weeks, will be attempting to marry hurling and football from next spring. It would be a serious boost for JBM and his selectors, even though there’s absolutely no guarantee it will work.
Both are unproven against the best defenders (Sheehan only played once for Cork U21s due to injury), and hurl with intermediate clubs.
However they have shown flashes of brilliance at minor, U21 and third level though. They’re strong and have the experience of being All-Ireland winners with the footballers, which is sorely lacking due to the underage malaise.
For Cadogan and Cahalane the situation is more complex.
Cadogan plumped for football last winter, after an iffy 2012 championship with the hurlers and an All-Star nominated one with the big ball, but his reward was his worst season with the footballers. However a serious Achilles injury that meant he should have been on the treatment table rather than in the number four jersey anyway.
Just turned 27 he could attempt the dual mandate again, but if he’s to make a claim for the centre-back spot again, he’ll probably need to switch from football to hurling fully. Is that a call he’s willing to, or should, risk?
Many, and not just the west Cork contingent, would argue that, fully fit, he’s a superior football.
Cahalane is another player that is more proven as a footballer and hampered by injury. After Castlehaven clash with Nemo in the county football final on Sunday week he’s scheduled for operations on both his hips. Only 21 since August, to be suffering with such a chronic problem at such a young age is alarming.
Could he combine hurling and football for Castlehaven, the Barrs and Cork? His recovery time might dictate it, though coming out of the U21 ranks will lessen the demands on him.
At least JBM knows Paudie O’Sullivan will be ready for road, and aged 25 desperate to put his second major injury behind him and deliver on the All-Star promise he showed as a minor.
If the management had all the players at their disposal at the outset of the league, ruling out Cahalane through injury and veteran Brian Murphy on the basis he’ll be eased back in, the team could look something like this:
Anthony Nash; Conor O’Sullivan, Stephen McDonnell, Shane O’Neill; Chris Joyce, Eoin Cadogan, Lorcan McLoughlin; Daniel Kearney, Pa Cronin; Seamus Harnedy, Paudie O’Sullivan, Aidan Walsh; Patrick Horgan, Ciaran Sheehan, Conor Lehane.

That leaves William Egan, Jamie Coughlan, Luke O’Farrell, Cian McCarthy and Stephen Moylan as impact subs. The Cork panel suddenly looks a whole lot stronger…

Championship draw on now at 7pm on RTE 2

Good draw,wdnt fair waterford.

Clare is tough but the time to get them is now without a game,and its nt as bad to be beaten in a semi than ist round.


An awful draw for limerick.They better have a good manager as tipp will be much much better.

There is a presumption being made that players will be allowed to choose to be dual stars. I doubt the new Cork football manager or JBM will give players the choice to play both. I'd imagine that managers will say pick one and stick with your choice.

I think we need to forget about the 2013 championship now and talk of revenge. All the teams in Munster will want to win a Munster medal, so there's no need for extra motivation for Cork, Clare, Waterford or Tipperary. You'd fancy Tipperary to beat Limerick and get to the final in 2014 because the game will be played in Thurles. On the other side of the draw it's hard to know if a warm up game with Waterford will be of any use to Cork. Afterall, Cork didn't mind the 7 week break from the relegation match to meeting Clare in the Munster semi-final this year. It looks like Cork will beat Waterford and I think it will be a toss of coin between Clare and Cork for the other final spot. Waterford could realistically come back better depending on their new manager and routing out a few new players. Maybe even John Mullane might come back. Simple fact is that unless you have a crystal ball, you're not going to be able to predict the 2014 Munster champions.

In the football, it's going to be Cork v Kerry final, and then either a round 4 qualifier or a quarter final. Ultimately, Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo, Cork, Kerry and Dublin will be in the quarter-finals and that's when the championship will start in earnest.

I don't think Kerry will be back that quickly. You're presuming that Cork won't unearth more underage talent while Kerry will. I think myself that Kerry had an exceptional team from 2004 up to 2009. They peaked some where in that period and have just failed in recent years, especially poor in 2010 and 2012. I think Kerry will find younger players but not of the same calibre of the players that they have lost and are losing. For instance, they still haven't found a player as good in the middle as Darragh O Sé. It's hard to see another Gooch coming along, or defenders of the quality and sheer grit and determination of Tomás and Marc O Sé. I think Cork will dominate Munster for the next 4-5 years, maybe a bit like 1987 -1990. Cork will definitely win in Pairc Ui Chaoimh next July. It's the following year in Fitzgerald stadium that will prove to be a more of a challenge for the new manager. I'd say, and I might be wrong, no manager since Billy Morgan has beaten Kerry in Fitzgeral stadium in the championship

I agree. It will all depend on the management team. I just think that the current Cork panel with a couple of exceptions are the most under utilized panel in the country. I'm sure James Horan or Jim McGuinness and possibly Eamon Fitzmaurice would be happy to swap their panels for the Cork one if that were possible. The panel of players are there. Cork are the only team in my opinion that can justifiably compete with Dublin.

The one thing that's always annoyed me over the last 5 years is this statement that Kerry have the best front six forwards in Gaelic football. Colm O'Neill and Ciaran Sheehan are exceptional talents and Hurley has really stepped up this year. Goulding and Kelly have been a bit indifferent in recent years but with the exception of Gooch, I'd be just as happy with the Cork forwards. The one thing that makes the Kerry forwards look better is their style of play. Cork can easily play as good as Kerry if they're coached in the same manner. In fact, most people in West and North Cork would prefer Kerry style of play and will be happy Counihan's slow, hand-passing, running game is gone!

Archer3083 wrote: »

I agree. It will all depend on the management team. I just think that the current Cork panel with a couple of exceptions are the most under utilized panel in the country. I'm sure James Horan or Jim McGuinness and possibly Eamon Fitzmaurice would be happy to swap their panels for the Cork one if that were possible. The panel of players are there. Cork are the only team in my opinion that can justifiably compete with Dublin.

The one thing that's always annoyed me over the last 5 years is this statement that Kerry have the best front six forwards in Gaelic football. Colm O'Neill and Ciaran Sheehan are exceptional talents and Hurley has really stepped up this year. Goulding and Kelly have been a bit indifferent in recent years but with the exception of Gooch, I'd be just as happy with the Cork forwards. The one thing that makes the Kerry forwards look better is their style of play. Cork can easily play as good as Kerry if they're coached in the same manner. In fact, most people in West and North Cork would prefer Kerry style of play and will be happy Counihan's slow, hand-passing, running game is gone!

Couinhan destroyed cork football,the last two years.
The way the game is now,speed of mind,speed of thought ,guys that want to play football and not basket ball or a game of sevens rubgy,is a must.

The make up of the management team will tell us all we nd to know before a ball is kicked.

Archer3083 wrote: »

Well I hope I'm pleasantly surprised next year. And I'm going to stay optimistic and upbeat til it's proven otherwise. That might be foolish but time will tell!

That might be a bit harsh on Counihan. I don't think he did it intentionally, but I don't think any one in Cork or outside of Cork liked the style of play that he favoured. Maybe the less said about Counihan the better.

Of course he didnt.He loves cork.Thats never doubted,or hes commitment.

But,look on results alone,nothing personal ,he was a very poor manager.Their is no point in saying he was.

Archer3083 wrote: »

I mostly agree with you but I wouldn't use the word 'ruined'. After the 2009 final I think Cork regressed under Counihan. Cork were fortunate in 2010 to win Sam, they played much better football in 2009 and lost. Counihan should have gone after the win in 2010. It would have been far better for the team and his own reputation if he retired sooner.

Fair enough,could use a better choice of word.

That 09 game,is still hard to take.

That is a pretty damning indictment of Counihan and Cork!

That is why I would have liked an outside manager with a proven track record of achieving success at the highest level in the game. If you were to look at Munster as a microcosm for the whole All-Ireland series. Tipperary, Limerick, Waterford and Clare would be the teams that managers could cut their teeth so to speak in preparation for the Kerry or Cork job. I just don't think it's enough in the modern era to promote successful club managers to intercounty management. I think there is a yawning chasm between club management and intercounty management, and that gap will continue to grow.