Work??? Feck that.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 24-05-2009 9:38pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Iamxavier, we agree on this, someone that commits a crime is a criminal, yes?
Well the crime there is this. She is of sound mind and body, able for work, offered a job, accepted said job, and then decided it wasn't for her. She then wanted to go back on the dole where she left off, thus making a fraudulent claim. Fraud = crime.

But how did she commit a crime? It is her right to decline a job, or to change her mind.

Relevant wrote: »

She went for a job, got it, then refused it. She then continued to claim social welfare on the basis that she could not get a job and was actively seeking employment.

You do not know what basis she went back to social welfare on.

I am one of the many people in this country who pays tax and prsi that contributes to this persons "job seekers" allowance

So have the majority of the people that are on social welfare now.

cruiser178 · 24-05-2009 9:47pm

Raquel Cuddly Quintet wrote: »

But how did she commit a crime? It is her right to decline a job, or to change her mind.

You do not know what basis she went back to social welfare

So have the majority of the people that are on social welfare now.

true statement

white apples · 24-05-2009 9:57pm

[quote=[Deleted User];60382416]Indeed. So what do you suggest then, should the government cut social welfare because people are too weak to resist taking it when they don't genuinely need it? [/quote]

Ehh....yes, clearly if this is what's happening.

white apples · 24-05-2009 10:13pm

jape wrote: »

This UK comparison thing really annoys me, of the 30 OECD countries, 25 of them actually have higher dole payments than ours. The UK is one of the 4 who have lower payments than ours. If dole payments are to be lowered, then PRSI (which people on the dole pay for years before claiming) must be lowered too.

Do you have a link for that? I'd be interested in having a look.

Jobseekers Benefit is an entitlement and I don't think anybody here seems to have a problem with people claiming it when they've lost their job as they have paid for it in their taxes.

However, jobseekers allowance in my opinion should be a completely different payment and should not continue indefinately - maybe it should be reduced by 5% a month or something to a minimum base level to encourage people to go out and work. There needs to be a bigger gap between jobseekers allowance and minimum wage to encourage people to work, and raising minimum wage just isn't viable in the current economic climate, if anything, that too needs to be reduced to give us more competitiveness in Europe in terms of attracting employers and creating more jobs.

However, I don't think this woman deserves the blame, there are thousands like her in this country and it is the system that has created them.

luckat · 25-05-2009 12:50am

Still no sign of Senna, the original poster. S/he has been asked repeatedly what the job is.

Still no sign of the people who said "I'll have that job" and "me too".

So we don't know what the job is. If it existed in the first place - perhaps this is all a fairytale.

By the way, PRSI stands for pay-related social insurance. It is an insurance we pay against becoming unemployed. If we become unemployed, we can claim 'benefits' - we are paid back some of the money we paid to insure ourselves and each other.

If this woman ever existed (and I've had my doubts from page 3 or so), then she may have found the sewage-cleaning, or whatever the work was, or working for the OP, not bearable for the wage.

Perhaps this is terribly wrong. Perhaps when we hear from the volunteers who rushed up to Letterkenny to claim the job she discarded, we'll know. Perhaps not.

Overheal · 25-05-2009 1:10am

luckat wrote: »

Still no sign of Senna, the original poster. S/he has been asked repeatedly what the job is.

Still no sign of the people who said "I'll have that job" and "me too".

So we don't know what the job is. If it existed in the first place - perhaps this is all a fairytale.

By the way, PRSI stands for pay-related social insurance. It is an insurance we pay against becoming unemployed. If we become unemployed, we can claim 'benefits' - we are paid back some of the money we paid to insure ourselves and each other.

If this woman ever existed (and I've had my doubts from page 3 or so), then she may have found the sewage-cleaning, or whatever the work was, or working for the OP, not bearable for the wage.

Perhaps this is terribly wrong. Perhaps when we hear from the volunteers who rushed up to Letterkenny to claim the job she discarded, we'll know. Perhaps not.

Senna wrote: »

Its a service industry job that does not require qualifications, we do look for people with experience. The minimum wage is ridiculously high, but we still pay more that minimum.

Also for the hard of reading. THIS JOB IS IN DONEGAL, 9.50 goes a lot further here than in dub etc, as i said before its probably closer to 12/13e at dub levels.

She gets dole of 204 and mortgage sub of probably 100/120e per week.

.

luckat · 25-05-2009 1:22am

Senna started off this row, but then mysteriously disappeared. "A service industry job" - well, what does that mean?

None of the "I'll have that job" posters have reported back. Senna has disappeared.

Overheal · 25-05-2009 1:55am

Maybe he's working.

luckat · 25-05-2009 9:13am

Overheal wrote: »

Maybe he's working.

Maybe. What about the people who said they'd take the job? Lots of opinions here; not much hard information.

Gummy Panda · 25-05-2009 11:22am

luckat wrote: »

Maybe. What about the people who said they'd take the job? Lots of opinions here; not much hard information.

why don't you pm them then?

tatabubbly · 25-05-2009 11:53am

luckat wrote: »

Maybe. What about the people who said they'd take the job? Lots of opinions here; not much hard information.

I asked but i'm waiting for her to send me an email! I'd love a job..

stevenmu · 25-05-2009 12:20pm

Black Lead wrote: »

How I am a freeloader ? My employer wouldn't give me the hours I needed and the dole office wouldn't help me either because I was working more than 3 days.

I have bills to pay and if unemployment helps me more than employment then I'll be unemployed and there is allot of people in this positon, the social welfare system needs to be overhauled starting with getting rid of the 3 day week and have it based on hours rather than days.

You could take the non-freeloader approach and cut back on your bills, you could take on a second or even a third job to make up the hours, and be looking for a better job while working.

dlofnep · 25-05-2009 12:39pm

Senna wrote: »

The minimum wage is ridiculously high, but we still pay more that minimum.

How on earth is it ridiculously high? I'm sure it's lovely for you Senna in your position to be able to afford the cost of living in this rip-off state - But let's see you live on the minimum wage with a rake of bills up your arse, and then come back to us saying that it's too high.

Now - While I agree with your sentiment in the original post - that girl should not have refused the job. There are thousands of people out there who can't find legitimate work, and need that money...

I don't agree with you trying to have a stab at the minimum wage. It is the rate that it is because our cost of living is one of the highest in the world.

Out of curiosity - What do you make an hour?

General Zod · 25-05-2009 1:06pm

Overheal wrote: »

Does sitting on at home:

- Pay into a pension?
- Build your CV?
- Improve your sense of self accomplishment?
- Provide you opportunities for advancement?
- etc.

Senna did her a favor.

i doubt very much Senna's job does any of these either.

mollypop · 25-05-2009 1:36pm

jape wrote: »

This UK comparison thing really annoys me, of the 30 OECD countries, 25 of them actually have higher dole payments than ours. The UK is one of the 4 who have lower payments than ours. If dole payments are to be lowered, then PRSI (which people on the dole pay for years before claiming) must be lowered too.

Strange, according to this we're 10th in the world: http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/apr/05/states-of-grace-dole-payments-around-the-world/

We're even better than that if you just look at minimums. Looking at that link its awful to think that most countries actually differentiate between bums who's never worked a day in their lives and people who've worked hard for years and lost their job. That's how it should be here! :mad:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 25-05-2009 2:03pm

stevenmu wrote: »

You could take the non-freeloader approach and cut back on your bills, you could take on a second or even a third job to make up the hours, and be looking for a better job while working.

Ah, the answer for Irelands problems... Well done, why didn't 450,000 people on social welfare think of getting a job, the lads will be chuffed down at the office when I tell them this great plan of getting a job... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are a funny guy, get a second or even third job... WHERE? People are struggling to find half a job, let alone 3...

Absolutely silly suggestion.

Black Lead, enquire to the social welfare office to see if you have paid enough PRSI to benifit from the dole. You may not be eligible. If you do go on social welfare, I do not blame you. Why work for 20 hours a week barely scrapping enough money together for food bills etc etc, while the social welfare is paying much more? It's logical. And to be honest, fcuk morals and ethics at the moment, there is no place for them right now.

Overheal · 25-05-2009 3:05pm

Raquel Cuddly Quintet wrote: »

People are struggling to find half a job, let alone 3...

As this thread has shown: no they aren't.

Puddleduck · 25-05-2009 3:10pm

Overheal wrote: »

As this thread has shown: no they aren't.

1 Person does not equal people. I wouldnt go by boards either tbh. People are either calling for dole to be cut, or increased. Bitching about politics/recent events and then change their minds the following week.

peanuthead · 25-05-2009 3:20pm

Overheal wrote: »

Yep something is very wrong with your system if you can make more money unemployed.

The more of this I hear the more I think I might vote republican..

Yes indeed there is something wrong with the system when people can earn a better living off the dole than they can in paid employment. My sister is one of those cases. She works, but I have to say OP, being a part time teacher, I don't get paid for my summers off. I could get a job for these three months if I wanted to, but the reality is that I will earn more on the dole. So guess what I'm going to do?... I'm going to go on the dole till September. And I really don't care what any of you lot think about that, the reality is that I have paid tax since I was 17, 18, and have been in employment since I was 15. I think I'm entitled to a few months off.:D

Overheal · 25-05-2009 3:22pm

^ See, Duck?

CiaranC · 25-05-2009 3:25pm

peanuthead wrote: »

Yes indeed there is something wrong with the system when people can earn a better living off the dole than they can in paid employment. My sister is one of those cases. She works, but I have to say OP, being a part time teacher, I don't get paid for my summers off. I could get a job for these three months if I wanted to, but the reality is that I will earn more on the dole. So guess what I'm going to do?... I'm going to go on the dole till September. And I really don't care what any of you lot think about that, the reality is that I have paid tax since I was 17, 18, and have been in employment since I was 15. I think I'm entitled to a few months off.:D

Fair play, enjoy yourself

Puddleduck · 25-05-2009 3:27pm

Overheal wrote: »

^ See, Duck?

Yes, but there are those at the start of the thread that were willing to jump on a job knowing that they would earn the same on the dole.

I think some companies are now using the recession as an excuse to offer a seriously pitiful wage that they know would be turned down if people werent so desperate to work. I know of one company that is offering below whats on the dole, yet a few months ago were offering higher.

RaverRo808 · 25-05-2009 3:44pm

Reminds of a time when I needed to go on the dole,I was living at home and been fired recently,and when I finally got my labour they were giving me 85 euro a week!!!,I went over in a huff and appealed it and asked why I was getting so little,considering that my parents had a tiny income,and I had loads and bills to pay,it was apparently because my parents own the house,but the neighbours who rent their houses and have two brand new cars in their driveways and houses with brand new extensions and were like places inside,and themselves and their kids were getting the full whack of 200 and more(that was max at time) a week,but even though my folks hadnt a bean,but thet owned their house I got 85 quid a week,I swore Id never end up on dole again,Id do anything to stay off it,ANYTHING LOL

dlofnep · 25-05-2009 3:55pm

Overheal wrote: »

As this thread has shown: no they aren't.

LOL - You're kidding right? 100's of jobs were lost in my city in one week alone in Waterford Crystal.. 2000 jobs lost in Limerick in the blink of an eye in Dell.

Thousands of people are without work, and for you to suggest that there is sufficient jobs out there is absolutely laughable, but also sad. Small businesses are closing down everywhere, medium-sized businesses are cutting back staff, multi-nationals are moving jobs to foreign countries for a cheaper workforce.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 25-05-2009 4:00pm

Overheal wrote: »

As this thread has shown: no they aren't.

Well the 450,000 people on social welfare state otherwise... are you saying that they are all wrong and there are jobs for the majority of these people are out there?

How exactly has this thread shown that people are not struggling for jobs. One job? Look at the amount of people that asked and PMd the OP about the job. IF anything this thread shows that people are desperate...

Dudess · 25-05-2009 7:21pm

I don't know what to think of this woman. Yes, it's lazy of her to be cool with sitting at home all day when she doesn't have kids - I don't know how she can stick it. I got let go from a fairly well paying job quite recently and then started a 40-hour-a-week job with sh1t hours and pay that's only slightly over minimum wage (took an enormous pay-cut) but it majorly beats having nothing to do and barely anyone to interact with all day. I've been there - it is soul-destroying, and it's not as if she doesn't know this, seeing as she was unemployed long-term (according to the OP).

That said though, welfare benefits are way too much in this country and if she is able to take advantage of them, well I'd be more inclined to blame the system that deems her eligible. What's to be expected when there are people with her attitude and wages are only the same as the dole plus associated benefits? And it's not theft, she is entitled to these benefits (I know she isn't in principle but according to the Social she is) - if she's deemed eligible, then that suffices (although maybe things will change now that the OP phoned the Social, but it seems they should be more pro-active in investigating people). OP, what you did seems quite petty and personal. Was it outrage at the ride tax-payers are being taken on... or was it revenge? Plus, can you not afford to pay more than the dole and its associated benefits? I'm not liking how employers are exploiting the recession and paying people crap wages just because they can use the recession as an excuse. Not saying you're one of them OP - maybe the wage you offer is a fair whack out of your pocket - but such employers are out there.
And she also actually applied for the job and worked for a while and appeared competent, so I don't think she comes across as a totally useless scrounger - just someone on the lookout for a job that pays better than the dole. She's probably back looking for jobs if the above pattern is anything to go by, just better paying ones. Not a great attitude, I agree.

As for people saying there's no employment crisis in this country and ALL those on the dole are scroungers (including people who paid their taxes for years and are now out of work through no fault of their own) - please, don't be stupid.

kosmo · 28-05-2009 11:57pm

I recently had a long conversation with a friend of mine who lost his job. He was in a reasonably good job and after a little bit of overtime was earning a gross salary of EUR35,000 per year.

So I asked him the obvious question of how he was going to cope now with four children to feed and, I have to be honest, the answer startled me.
He was actually a lot better off and now in a position to go out golfing every day while his children are at school.
Frankly, I did not believe him until I sat down and did the sums. On a salary of EUR35,000, his annual net income after the mini Budget was EUR28,854, after all deductions.
Now he is on the supplementary welfare allowance which -- with a wife and four children -- gives you EUR443.90 per week, or EUR23,083 annually.
As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was EUR1,200 per month of his EUR1,500 mortgage, or EUR14,400 per annum.
He is also entitled to back-to-school and footwear payment of EUR905 per year for four children, a medical card which is worth, on average, say EUR500 per year (probably more) and a heating supplement which I cannot quantify.
In total, he now has tax-free income of EUR38,888, an increase in his net income of EUR10,034 per year for working on his golf handicap.
Based on the calculations after the mini-Budget, you would need to earn more than EUR47,000 per year if you have four children to justify continuing to work.
This is even before taking into account the costs of working, such as petrol, car maintenance, tolls, lunches and so on.

Now in any civilised society, and especially in a society in a deep recession with a huge welfare bill, surely the government must give people an incentive to go out and work

Making the child benefit taxable or means tested later this year is just going to make the situation worse and encourage more people to give up work and rely on the State to live.

It could even drive our small economy to collapse as the welfare bill gets bigger and bigger as more people, including myself, ask: why should I bother to go out to work when it is basically costing me money to work?

Unless something radically changes, I will be joining my mate on the golf course very soon.

Andy McNamara
Drogheda, Co Louth

This is an email i received not too long ago and i thought I'd share with you all. does it make sense to you???

Blush_01 · 29-05-2009 12:11am

CiaranC wrote: »

You should still sign on and not make a benefit claim.

If you sign on, you get your PRSI stamps, which you may need if necessity means you have to claim the dole down the road.

I agree 100% with this.

I didn't sign on for anything (stupidly - I should have made sure to get my stamps) because I had savings and was content enough living on what I had saved while looking for work, supporting myself. I got a job, and towards the end of the year I got rogered for tax based on the shorter year when our christmas bonus came through. Out of close to a grand I got my €250 of vouchers tax free, and €12.50 in my wages.

Even if you claim nothing, sign on for your stamps.

thelordofcheese · 29-05-2009 12:26am

Dudess wrote: »

She's probably back looking for jobs if the above pattern is anything to go by, just better paying ones. Not a great attitude, I agree.

Actually, i'd disagree, it's a fairly rational attitude to have, the time spent earning 50Quid extra a week could be better spent looking for a job that pays a hell of a lot more.

Frankly, if she feels she's worth more than what was being given then she should go out and get it. She's in a pretty strong position, she might as well go for it.

Blush_01 · 29-05-2009 12:32am

They say it's easier to get a job when you have a job, and to a large degree I agree with that, having seen recruitment done where I work recently.

I'd rather have a ****ty job than a gap on my CV. Personal preference, I know.

thelordofcheese · 29-05-2009 12:50am

Blush_01 wrote: »

They say it's easier to get a job when you have a job, and to a large degree I agree with that, having seen recruitment done where I work recently.

I'd rather have a ****ty job than a gap on my CV. Personal preference, I know.

true, and that's part of the risk, but be this woman real or imagined (this *is* the internet after all) and she wants to do better than just above minimum wage then i say more power to her.

kosmo · 29-05-2009 12:52am

Blush_01 wrote: »

I'd rather have a ****ty job than a gap on my CV. Personal preference, I know.

totally disagree. all you do is bouncing from a s**ty job to another and never get the break you might deserve.
unemployed gap... so what? what did you do all that time matters. are you up to date with what's going on because you had so much time to read and study or you're up to date with pitt-jolie news???
it's all in the attitude.
i don't know what this girl was up for but if she could afford to say no to a job based on principles: more power to you girl

tough for the employer that trained her and saw her go. if she was so good could have fight for her.

Kinetic^ · 29-05-2009 12:56am

I'd like to throw this job out there. At the bottom it states "Excellent Salary" yet the salary offered is €21k. Me thinks some employers are taking the piss a little.

Dudess · 29-05-2009 12:57am

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Actually, i'd disagree, it's a fairly rational attitude to have, the time spent earning 50Quid extra a week could be better spent looking for a job that pays a hell of a lot more.

Frankly, if she feels she's worth more than what was being given then she should go out and get it. She's in a pretty strong position, she might as well go for it.

Nah, able-bodied people with a job and during tough economic times simply choosing not to work, just because they can... I've no time for that attitude. I know she's eligible - doesn't mean I've to give her kudos though.

If she was trained in something where there were no jobs, just a nixer here and there, then I'd see nothing wrong with her doing that and getting whatever dole she was entitled to, but in my opinion, the dole should only be a means to an end, a last resort. In her case it's not.

Senna · 29-05-2009 2:12am

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Actually, i'd disagree, it's a fairly rational attitude to have, the time spent earning 50Quid extra a week could be better spent looking for a job that pays a hell of a lot more.

Frankly, if she feels she's worth more than what was being given then she should go out and get it. She's in a pretty strong position, she might as well go for it.

As i said much earlier, she had experience (lots) in this job and as far as i'm aware no other experience. She will not earn more than 9.50per hr in another position relevant to her experience.

What pissed me off was someone choosing dole over a job, there are no other factors, she's not waiting for a better job, she's not taking a job below her skils etc.
Of course not all people on the dole are like her, the vast majority ARE looking for work, but there has to be a better system than the one we currently have, food stamps, supplements to bills etc. Giving everyone money to be spent as they see fit is open to too much abuse.

Also as i said earlier, this is not the first time i've seen people passing up jobs just to stay on the dole, its just the first time i done anything about it. I used to get people coming in asking me if they could put down that i interview them for a position but they did not get hired, just so they could pretend they were looking for a job but just wanted to stay on the dole.

there are too many pages on this thread so i've only read the last

bobmalooka · 29-05-2009 2:17am

didnt read the whole thread.what type of job is it??:pac:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-05-2009 2:35am

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I'd like to throw this job out there. At the bottom it states "Excellent Salary" yet the salary offered is €21k. Me thinks some employers are taking the piss a little.

Yea sucks alright, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at it, it's twice the amount I am getting now :P

WTF is a "Admin & Accounts executive" anyway?

Huge problem with jobseekers is the titles of the job. I go through them most days ignoring a massive portion of them as I don't have a bloody clue what they are, yet the wage is only 18-22K a year. Hardly very skilled labour. The majority of jobs want you to have experience of some sort, without it makes it impossible to get that job.

A lot of people are over qualified for a lot of the jobs and lack the experience for others. While there are jobs out there, the competition and the pickiness of employers makes it extremely difficult to land a job.

Hamiltonion · 29-05-2009 2:59am

People do whats best for themselves, problem is the system is unable to moderate. Best thing for her is the dole and nixers esp when travel expenses/lunch/childcare is taken into account. Best thing for you is to report her so less is payed out on social welfare and you might sae .000002 cents in tax a week. Blame the system, not the individual, capitalist economies are built on greed, socialist upon naivety

melekalikimaka · 29-05-2009 3:15am

theres alot of left wing sillybillies in AH, i now remember why I don't browse. I'm shocked that so many people support this parasites actions. The dole is not afree ride til your dream job... you can work to make ends meet whilst still looking for another job...

Degag · 29-05-2009 4:02am

Senna wrote: »

As i said much earlier, she had experience (lots) in this job and as far as i'm aware no other experience. She will not earn more than 9.50per hr in another position relevant to her experience.

What pissed me off was someone choosing dole over a job, there are no other factors, she's not waiting for a better job, she's not taking a job below her skils etc.
Of course not all people on the dole are like her, the vast majority ARE looking for work, but there has to be a better system than the one we currently have, food stamps, supplements to bills etc. Giving everyone money to be spent as they see fit is open to too much abuse.

Also as i said earlier, this is not the first time i've seen people passing up jobs just to stay on the dole, its just the first time i done anything about it. I used to get people coming in asking me if they could put down that i interview them for a position but they did not get hired, just so they could pretend they were looking for a job but just wanted to stay on the dole.

there are too many pages on this thread so i've only read the last

You can't blame her if she doesn't take a job than pays less than any benifits she would receive. Not many people would. Blame the system.

nitrogen · 29-05-2009 5:16am

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I'd like to throw this job out there. At the bottom it states "Excellent Salary" yet the salary offered is €21k. Me thinks some employers are taking the piss a little.

It's a basic office admin job dressed up with a wanky title and filled with the usual meaningless corporate buzzwords. The level of skill required probably matches the salary, it's the requirements required that insure people slightly more qualified.

Some evenings and Weekend work is required

Basically they'll milk you for peanuts.

What annoys me is there is someone out there more than capable of doing this clerical job. He/She unfortunately didn't get a shot at third level education but is probably smart enough not to have wasted income on pointless certificates while being computer literate in standard office admin software.

Work??? Feck that.

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