Tekken 7 Discussion Thread

deathrider · 16-07-2014 2:28pm

I was kinda hoping there'd be some gameplay to chew on. I've been out of the game since Tekken 3. Spent a few hours on Tag, 4, and 5, but not even enough time for me to learn the names of all the new characters. Had a game of Tag 2 lately though, and found it to be lots of fun. Looking forward to seeing how this one plays.

Fergus_ · 16-07-2014 2:31pm

I don't think the juggle damage in TTT2 is that bad at all, you have to consider the fact that you have 2 health bars to manage, and if you die in 2 combos (which isn't a common thing at all), you really messed up big time. Watching some old T5/T6 matches, and it seems to be just about the same. Launcher wall carry combo into ender doing half life, not much difference. The only situation where I'd say the damage is a bit messed up due to TTT2's system is getting 100+ damage off 27-30 damage wallsplats (ala Julia/Leo)

I will never understand the launchers > poking argument for TTT2, the ground game is more damaging in TTT2 from T6 isn't it? With the raw scaling brought up to 135% from 100% in T6.

Fergus_ · 16-07-2014 2:39pm

@Doom, with those canned mid/low strings, in most cases, they can be fuzzy guarded/SS fuzzy guarded etc. (crouch block for a split second if the mid/low has different timings, this obviously doesn't work with strings that can be delayed)

Also solid movement (which is pretty hard to obtain consistently) can get you out of 80% of unnecessary mixups

BigStupidGuy · 16-07-2014 3:08pm

Fergus_ wrote: »

I will never understand the launchers > poking argument for TTT2, the ground game is more damaging in TTT2 from T6 isn't it? With the raw scaling brought up to 135% from 100% in T6.

Er.... didn't you say (as a beginner) that hopkicks ruin Tekken?

Fergus_ · 16-07-2014 3:44pm

A veryyy long time ago!

BigStupidGuy · 16-07-2014 4:30pm

Ah but now you can see why it's a barrier?

Fergus_ · 16-07-2014 5:02pm

I think they can easily be dealt with, floated for a nice combo (especially with TA), whiff punished or just simply block punished.

I played vs Rookang in the WR3 tourney and dude loves his hopkicks, but I just floated most of them and wall carried to take like 40-50%, stuck to my df1s and was wary about my lows.

They're fine the way they are now. Least it's not -12 as it was in T6.

Ramza · 17-07-2014 7:03pm

Having 2 characters or 2 health bars does not justify 100+ damage combos at all, I don't buy that logic. The damage is still way too high for this game, a new scaling system needs to be implemented. The fact that tag assault combos also give rage/tag crash to your opponent is kind of a draw back but not that big of a drawback at all, because most of the time it's not going to factor in when you're DEAD :pac: It's mental how fast you can die in this game, needs to be looked at.

I liked the change in T6 to give all characters 10f jabs, some new system changes like this need to be implemented. I think T5 had it best with regards to juggles and high level play, but I can't speculate too much on that game. A good start would be removing netsu, it doesn't have a place in this game, and it feels like too many games have these OTT comeback mechanics. Going back to Tekken 5, I think no rage is great, I never understood rage when T6 got launched, just made no sense to me, a losing player should never be given an advantage, the aggressor should always be the one with the most options and the advantage.

I'm also sure the argument of walls/no walls will arise eventually, so might as well start now, what's people's opinions on this? I know ATM that some characters benefit from walls and vice versa, but I'm kind of split on this. I feel like all stages having no walls makes it better as movement and proper spacing is now rewarded on every stage, but I feel like walls are a nice addition for some stages, I guess I'm okay with having a mix of walls and no wall stages

Also Namco plz, better customisation!

BigStupidGuy · 17-07-2014 7:44pm

Ah I don't think the damage is too high. Mostly the combos do around half life if it's a good one.

Macal · 17-07-2014 9:10pm

The whole bound damage thing is really dependent on which characters you're using. Some get a marginal boost in damages and other are helped significantly with the bound. Take my team's max damage off a solo staple (no walls) for example.

Feng: Maximum Hopkick DMG without bound: 64. Maximum Hopkick DMG with bound: 72. Not a major boost.

Wang: Maximum Hopkick DMG without bound: 66. Maximum Hopick DMG with bound: 81. Almost twice what Feng gets.

Fergus_ · 17-07-2014 11:49pm

I agree with rage and comeback mechanics , but it could be worse.

The damage in TTT2 isn't that high, if you watch older Tekken vids, the damage is pretty similar, launcher, wall carry then ender would do 50% anyway and that's with one health bar.

If they're going for TA combos, you're given rage ie tag crash so you have a chance to get out and basically gain a whole new 100% health bar (yes it can be baited but it's in your favour) and some characters have nutty tag cancels to get in easy, Bob, Heihachi, Lei, Feng, Jin etc.

I don't see why 2 healthbars doesn't justify the damage (even tho it's not that much higher than T6 staples anyway, only case where it can be silly is off a direct wallsplat with TA), if you're smart about life management and tagging, it doesn't become a problem at all. If you die in 2 combos, you really fked up.

K.O.Kiki · 18-07-2014 9:18pm

Fergus_ wrote: »

I agree with rage and comeback mechanics , but it could be worse.

The damage in TTT2 isn't that high, if you watch older Tekken vids, the damage is pretty similar, launcher, wall carry then ender would do 50% anyway and that's with one health bar.

If they're going for TA combos, you're given rage ie tag crash so you have a chance to get out and basically gain a whole new 100% health bar (yes it can be baited but it's in your favour) and some characters have nutty tag cancels to get in easy, Bob, Heihachi, Lei, Feng, Jin etc.

I don't see why 2 healthbars doesn't justify the damage (even tho it's not that much higher than T6 staples anyway, only case where it can be silly is off a direct wallsplat with TA), if you're smart about life management and tagging, it doesn't become a problem at all. If you die in 2 combos, you really fked up.

I don't have a problem with combo damage per se.

I'm just bored watching the same 12 second combos every single juggle.

Kuro Tao · 19-07-2014 7:16pm

Trailer is muck.

Cut the cast.

Reduce juggling.

Remove Lars.

Hire the guys that did T4 soundtrack.

Macal · 19-07-2014 9:28pm

Kuro Tao wrote: »

Trailer is muck.

Cut the cast.

Reduce juggling.

Remove Lars.

Hire the guys that did T4 soundtrack.

and reduce the waifu count.

Scavenger XIII · 19-07-2014 9:44pm

Kuro Tao wrote: »

Trailer is muck.

Cut the cast.

Reduce juggling.

Remove Lars.

Hire the guys that did T2 soundtrack.

Fixed.

Kuro Tao · 19-07-2014 9:48pm

Scavenger XIII wrote: »

Fixed.

T4 Soundtrack was best IMO. Or T3. In fact I wasn't a massive fan of T2's at all, bar a couple of tracks.

Ramza · 19-07-2014 11:08pm

Dabess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMoKxKV-gE

Nutrient · 19-07-2014 11:44pm

Kuro Tao wrote: »

Trailer is muck.

Cut the cast.

Reduce juggling.

Remove Lars.

Hire the guys that did T4 soundtrack.

If they can somehow make it Enjoyable to watch for a broader audience that'd be great.

Cast of 25-40 is the right balance.

The Soundtrack in TTT2 is gdlk.

I'll never pick up the series for a plethora of reasons, but, as a spectating experience, it's not exciting for casual audience.

Fergus_ · 20-07-2014 3:11am

Macal wrote: »

and increase the waifu count.

Fixed

BigStupidGuy · 20-07-2014 7:46am

There's nothing that is exciting for an audience if you don't at least partly understand it.

I for one don't understand SF and find it boring. Same for any FG. Same for cricket. ..

Macal · 20-07-2014 12:09pm

oh you, Gus.

And I think Skeering has a point. I follow a handful of Tekken-based Youtube channels, and you get the mostly uneducated sorts on TMM's channel commenting how they don't watch Street Fighter and Marvel because they believe is "just spamming fireballs" and even a more mature response on channels like Avoiding The Puddle for whatever reasons (Marvel being too match-up and tier heavy) and SF4 for the vortex/option select game.

As sports; I kind of see Street Fighter and Tekken as Football and Formula One. Football is popular for being easy to grasp and Formula One gains a more niche following for sometimes being written off as repetitive and not having the intricacies fully understood. You could make the same comparsion for music genres; ie. Street Fighter is the equivalent of Commercial Rock while Tekken is the equivalent of Jazz. It's a matter of taste.

Nutrient · 20-07-2014 4:25pm

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

There's nothing that is exciting for an audience if you don't at least partly understand it.

I for one don't understand SF and find it boring. Same for any FG. Same for cricket. ..

Of course with zero understanding its hard to extrapolate whats happening on screen in USF4 and it's true a large majority of people dont actually understand the high level intricacies of a match

But, whats great is that you don't have to understand, its recognizable to a complete Novice,

you'll have people that find it boring and lackluster, ironically enough its the exact same reason the majority find TTT2 boring, difference is: I can teach someone SF in ~1min. Doesn't make the game better, just easily understood.

JohnMc1 · 20-07-2014 9:18pm

Newaglish wrote: »

What do you all make of this trailer? Not too many details really.

So Heichachi's Mom [He was born with my powers] is appearing? Just what we needed. Another overpowered Mishima. :rolleyes:

Ramza · 20-07-2014 10:04pm

All hail mishimas, OP CHARS ARE BEST CHARS

Macal · 20-07-2014 11:02pm

And make her a not-so-**** version of Angel? Actually I think it'd interesting if Kazumi's face actually heavily resembled Angel's. It would make sense since Angel in T2 tried fight the Devil in Kazuya, it's pretty indicated in Tekken lore that Kazumi loved Kazuya and saw good in him. It would make Angel just little less random as a design

Fergus_ · 21-07-2014 12:39am

In b4 Panda is actually Kazumi

NoviGlitzko · 21-07-2014 9:23am

I agree with some of the posts. The roster definitely needs to be cut. Clones all should go but remove one of Eddy or Christy also. I'd dislike AK to go as I play with him. I expect Dr. B, AO, Ogre, Jinpachi, and Wang to miss the cut. Lee & Anna need a buff IMO. I'd like to say Yosh too but that's probably wishful thinking. Just hope they won't make him worse. The thoughts of Asuka getting a buff as Fergus mentioned makes me cry.

Juggles need to be shortened but this wouldn't be a problem if it's 1vs1 again. I thought T6 had about the right combo damage. Also if it's a walled level, make the walls start at 24x24 or something. There are stages where its 16x16 and its tiny, especially considering some of the characters wall carry.

Finally, GET RID OF LARS!! I have seen people with absolutely little to no skill beat people with lars because he's so OP - especially online. Even the majority of Lars players admit this. Plenty have said to me that when they lose they pick him for easy wins. Bob & Hwoarang deserve a nerf.

Finally I'm really excited for this game. We shouldn't have to wait so long between games. I expect this to be released sometime next year (summer hopefully). T4 music was the best IMO. Ah... airport theme, a classic

Scavenger XIII · 21-07-2014 11:17am

Really though many of the "clones" have evolved way past that point.

Anna is certainly her own character by this point, AK has the whole dark version another character thing going on aesthetically but his moveset is almost completely different from Kings nowadays, even his equivalent moves look and function differently.

I've never played any of the others enough to pass judgement but depending on just how much they want to trim there's a good argument for keeping many of the more developed ones.

Personally I'd want rid of the silly animals although to be fair Kuma is as much a staple of the series as the Mishimas sooooooo... :pac:

Macal · 21-07-2014 1:20pm

Honestly Novi, I know Lars is very strong in this game, but when you break him down it's not that OP. His fastest mids are i15, which are df+1 and df+2, on block they're -5 and -9 respectively. Most of Lars mid moves are minus on block to the point where he shouldn't consider even sidestepping and has to take mix-ups, it's when he hits you that you have to be careful. Asides ff+4,3 and the whole string of db+1,3, he can't give you much incentive to block low. I wouldn't sidestep Lars much at point blank despite the iffy tracking of his df+1. At mid-range though, you can definitely start stepping him.

If Lars was very OP we'd be seeing him a lot more in Top 8s, but honestly in the US the only Lars player I've seen in Top 8s is probably Speedkicks, and he only switches to him when he feels his Jin is having trouble. Knee, Only Practice and Nobi are really the players who justify Lars high tier placement, they implement his sidestep and punishment to maximum potential. Bottom line: It does take skill to win with Lars.

Fergus_ · 21-07-2014 1:27pm

Lars' df1 is i13, one of the better df1s because it does 18 dmg on hit but with a +5 on hit tradeoff.

Lars isn't that easy to play, if you SWR Lars, he's forced to use db4 which is launch punishable, b1 which is momentum killing on block and ff~n moves which are easy to CH.

At lower levels, Lars is a scrub killer, but at a much higher level, he actually does become hard to play.

However I'd like to see Bob go.......**** Bob.

Naphiel · 21-07-2014 1:43pm

Give Lars a nh combo off DB4 please.

Ramza · 21-07-2014 1:55pm

Naphiel wrote: »

Give Lars a nh combo off DB4 please.

That would be so OP though :pac: Who remembers Tekken 6.0 when Devil Jin's HS was a launcher..oh my dayz

Macal · 21-07-2014 5:22pm

misread the frame data. also look for ff+3+4 and d+1+2 for launch punishable lows. Yeah, Bob is a problem, I know he was a lot worse in T6 but he hasn't fallen that far off tier list. So evasive for such a fat bollocks. Very hard to outspace him as well.

BigStupidGuy · 21-07-2014 6:09pm

Nutrient wrote: »

... the majority find TTT2 boring, difference is: I can teach someone SF in ~1min. Doesn't make the game better, just easily understood.

Please explain how you can teach some one the game in 1 minute?

Fergus_ · 21-07-2014 6:17pm

He doesn't seem to have changed much from T6, CD1 launching was the big thing but he got a huge buff in db3+4 not staggering on block anymore, becomes one of the dumbest moves in the game. Db3+4 on it's own is +6 and on block you can throw off the punish because they'll expect the followup to launch.

Gonna see if hopkick will option select both options. Launch db3+4 and crush db3+4,4

Dwy · 21-07-2014 8:21pm

Do you think they'll remove quite a few of the moves from TTT2? I know some were just added in for the benefit of working well with tag but not too sure if they'd actually go through remove any... I can imagine Xiaoyu's f2 1 4 won't be used as much in T7

NoviGlitzko · 22-07-2014 11:54am

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

Please explain how you can teach some one the game in 1 minute?

Haha. On a different note I remember the first time I went to XGC years ago I overheard a guy saying that Tekken is easy to play and SF takes years to be good at. He then proceeded to play SF and actually wasn't a Tekken player at all. I dunno. xD

Lars is so fast to me. I can't read him most of the time. DB4 might as well be unseeable most of the time and it's guesswork from there. His wall damage makes me sick. And yeah Bob is annoying. His double kick low (don't know the name) that when blocked doesn't stun which everyone spams at walls is broken. I generally don't have much of an issue with him though compared to the fella above.

I don't know anything about frames and never bothered looking it up. I have no idea what - or + means. I just punish when I think a move is risky & spend time overall trying to read the opponent. I should probably invest time in T7 to look it up but the thought seems kinda boring. I just don't think I'd have the patience to learn that stuff. But then again, with playing Yosh I find that his style doesn't rely on punishes and baiting, more so with unpredictability. At least that's the way I try to play.

BigStupidGuy · 22-07-2014 12:52pm

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

I don't know anything about frames and never bothered looking it up. I have no idea what - or + means. I just punish when I think a move is risky & spend time overall trying to read the opponent. I should probably invest time in T7 to look it up but the thought seems kinda boring. I just don't think I'd have the patience to learn that stuff. But then again, with playing Yosh I find that his style doesn't rely on punishes and baiting, more so with unpredictability. At least that's the way I try to play.

I noticed that when I saw you play Novi! But the thing is, you instinctively punish correctly a lot of the time, particularly with Paul's d1+2 shoulder

Maybe just learn each character's top 10 moves and how safe/unsafe they are? I think that'll take you a very very long way, cause you already have a great instinct for the game.

NoviGlitzko · 22-07-2014 1:58pm

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

I noticed that when I saw you play Novi! But the thing is, you instinctively punish correctly a lot of the time, particularly with Paul's d1+2 shoulder

Maybe just learn each character's top 10 moves and how safe/unsafe they are? I think that'll take you a very very long way, cause you already have a great instinct for the game.

Cheers man, and yeah thats a good tip. I've been living out in Barcelona these past 2 months or so so can't go back to TTT2 to practice as PS3 is at home but I'll be sure to keep it in mind.

Ferg96 · 23-07-2014 8:14pm

Hopefully Mr Harada will reveal more info at comic con eg if the woman in the trailer is kazumi, platforms and release dates

Ixayek_usurper · 24-07-2014 9:15am

@Ferg96:
Welcome to Boards!

Doctor DooM wrote: »

A new person stands their best chance with a solid, simple, fundamentals based character like Ryu or Guile imo.

Noted :thumbsu:

Doctor DooM wrote: »

One of the main reasons, silly as it sounds, that I play SF compared to other games is because you can be good at it without a massive amount of combo training and because you don't end up in a 1 player game when you get hit. That's something I HATE as a new player in an FG. In SF4 you're always back in control within 5 seconds or so. In something like Marvel it can be 20+. Tekken isn't as bad but it still feels, when I play competitively, that because I don't know a particular string for some random character I have to sit there and get comboed after a high low mix up for a good while. It feels (and I accept that I might be completely wrong here as I'm not good at the game, but you're asking why I don't play) like it doesn't matter how good your FG fundamentals are at all at my level, because you're always going to get caught by these mix ups. To me, with my limited time, that means I will usually pick SF off the shelf first, but doesn't mean I don't accept that I could really enjoy Tekken if I put actual effort into it.

This aint silly man, not in my opinion atleast. It's extremely frustrating when a player cannot influence the game he's playing.

You hit the nail on the head here.
The biggest problem with tekken is that the skill/info/tactics of defending are not made easily obtainable.
They don't need to make the game easier or even remove attacks.

There should be a "beat the string mode";
In this mode you'd be introduced to the various methods around strings and exposing there holes: duck launch/ss/low crush/high crush/duck jab/char. spec. attacks,
Then you select a character and the game lets you defend against a string a couple of times, AND OFFERS suggestions if you aint doing so well.
Then moves on to the next string. Obviously you should be able to setup certain specific strings and set it on random.
This mode should be incentivised! Character unlockables/panels/customizations/whatever
AND, it would be great if you could select it as a mini game whilst waiting for you next online match.

At the moment, you can set this up yourself, but having to go into practice mode and manually set up defending every time and with out any hints/tips is tedious, to say the bloody least!
It's a huge deterrent.

@Novi:
What specifically are you having trouble with when fighting against Hwo?
He certainly doesn't need a nerf man! He's ok in the game, but nowhere near OP.

@Gussy:
You don't always need to "phuck up" to get lauched twice in a game where knowledge, and more specifically in this instance, LACK OF it, are key.

NoviGlitzko · 24-07-2014 12:43pm

Ixayek_usurper wrote: »

@Novi:
What specifically are you having trouble with when fighting against Hwo?
He certainly doesn't need a nerf man! He's ok in the game, but nowhere near OP.

He's certainly better than ok. He probably has the best range in the game and very easy to spam with. It becomes quesswork to just prevent strings from hitting you online. Great launches too. Offline? I don't know anyone to play regularly offline so I can't really say.

I think a lot is down to that I play Yosh. He just always seems to do **** against him. I do much better with AK as I can interupt him easier.

Fergus_ · 24-07-2014 12:59pm

I've always thought Yoshi would be strong vs Hwo because of flash (i6) interrupting his FLA pressure.

I wouldn't say he has amazing range, he has to be in your face for his stuff to work, outside of iWR3 which can be stepped anyway.

Jack and T.Ogre would have way better range than him, quite a few chars would actually : P

BigStupidGuy · 24-07-2014 2:46pm

Poor Yoshi doesn't even have a crouch jab

I'd feel execrable for him in that matchup...

But flash sounds interesting, although I'd be timorous to suggest even that could stop Hwo in the middle of his + 1000 frame fla mixups.

NoviGlitzko · 24-07-2014 7:15pm

Bare with me, this Spanish keyboard is confusing. xD

Flash doesnt work at all against Hwo. You would think it though. I would go out on a limb and say he´s the least flashed character I´ve faced. He never gets close enough or lead into something where it could work. AK works so much better as an example because of d1, d1to4, or d4 as examples. Yosh doesn´t really have any of that apart from d4 but it´s still a bit too slow and it´s a little risky with how fast he is up close.

It´s the same with Jack & Jinpachi, really. Can use it against Ogre, sometimes Panda (out of the guys with good range). Ugh, I just find him annoying. It´s probably the match-up more than anything.

D4RK ONION · 25-07-2014 3:39am

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Haha. On a different note I remember the first time I went to XGC years ago I overheard a guy saying that Tekken is easy to play and SF takes years to be good at. He then proceeded to play SF and actually wasn't a Tekken player at all. I dunno. xD

FWIW this could have easily been someone trying to annoy Fergus, and taking the piss. :P

Ixayek_usurper · 25-07-2014 8:19am

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

He's certainly better than ok. He probably has the best range in the game and very easy to spam with. It becomes quesswork to just prevent strings from hitting you online.

No. Hwo is rated A/A- at most. And definitely range is one of he weakest attributes.
He has some nice range moves like RFF f,f+3, LFS b+3, RFS b+4 and WR 3 as gussy said and he did receive a buff with in his LFF 4 but I certainly wouldn't say he has great, even good range.

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Offline? I don't know anyone to play regularly offline so I can't really say.

Well, you know me now

I'd gladly sit with you and give you some games and talk about ways around Hwo. If your interested let us know the next time your able to head into XGC and hopefully we can arrange something.
If you can't wait and want some reading I wrote loads of anti-hwo stuff on TZ:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4700553#post4700553
(there's even more further back in those threads)
CaCarm talks a lot of useful stuff in there too.

If you've any questions in particular you can hit me up there/here or PM me.

Fergus_ · 25-07-2014 7:03pm

Harada's T7 panel on Spookys channel in a hours time!

BigStupidGuy · 25-07-2014 8:07pm

I can't stream on my internet in Wexford.... keep me updated! Here or FB plz!

Fergus_ · 25-07-2014 8:43pm

Nvm it got cancelled ;_:

Spooky is recording it and uploading later

Tekken 7 Discussion Thread

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