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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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    #122
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Odds for Waterford v Tipp league semi final: Tipp - 4/9. Waterford - 2/1.
    Waterfords odds to win the league: 13/2.

    13/2 is worth a punt, if (unknown if) we could beat Tipp there's no reason to think we couldn't beat the other two.
    Callanan would be a big loss but Tipp have plenty of options on the bench.
    Tipp are favourites and rightly so but this game is tough to call due to a number of reasons.
    1. Waterford haven't played any of the top 3/4 teams yet with this defensive system so that's a big unknown.
    2. Tipp are the more experienced team but this is difficult to quantify as how much of an advantage it is.
    3. Tipp are a team that scores goals but with Waterfords defensive system have only conceded one goal from open play. If the goal count is high in this game Tipp will win if it is low Waterford have a great chance IMO.
    4. Can Waterford play a more attacking style if we fall behind and how effective will it be.

    It would be great for Waterford to have these unknowns known before championship starts. Tipp will certainly pose alot of questions to this young Waterford team and i just hope we have the answers. Deise abu.


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    #123
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Odds for Waterford v Tipp league semi final: Tipp - 4/9. Waterford - 2/1.
    Waterfords odds to win the league: 13/2.

    13/2 is worth a punt, if (unknown if) we could beat Tipp there's no reason to think we couldn't beat the other two.
    Callanan would be a big loss but Tipp have plenty of options on the bench.
    Tipp are favourites and rightly so but this game is tough to call due to a number of reasons.
    1. Waterford haven't played any of the top 3/4 teams yet with this defensive system so that's a big unknown.
    2. Tipp are the more experienced team but this is difficult to quantify as how much of an advantage it is.
    3. Tipp are a team that scores goals but with Waterfords defensive system have only conceded one goal from open play. If the goal count is high in this game Tipp will win if it is low Waterford have a great chance IMO.
    4. Can Waterford play a more attacking style if we fall behind and how effective will it be.

    It would be great for Waterford to have these unknowns known before championship starts. Tipp will certainly pose alot of questions to this young Waterford team and i just hope we have the answers. Deise abu.

    I think weve a great chance. Were on a bit of a crest of a wave at the moment. My gut feeling is that while we are improving massively, the current system may bring us up a bit short when it cones to the real crunch in the championship. But as far as the league goes we are the form team in the country at the moment, inspite of the level of opposition weve played. Its obvious that tipp are really desperate to get callinan back for this one, they must really feel theyll need all hands on deck to get over us.


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    #124
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    stumblingblock wrote: »
    I think weve a great chance. Were on a bit of a crest of a wave at the moment. My gut feeling is that while we are improving massively, the current system may bring us up a bit short when it cones to the real crunch in the championship. But as far as the league goes we are the form team in the country at the moment, inspite of the level of opposition weve played. Its obvious that tipp are really desperate to get callinan back for this one, they must really feel theyll need all hands on deck to get over us.

    It may have as much to do that callinan is as influential to tipp as shufflin was to kk (maybe even more so!!)


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    #125
    Deise_2012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭Deise_2012


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    It may have as much to do that callinan is as influential to tipp as shufflin was to kk (maybe even more so!!)
    You think they shuffle every day in Kilkenny?


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    #126
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Shufflin is the reason why Kilkenny were so successful. Waterford should try it.


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    #127
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    Kerry won 2a yet again after the final today. They still have to play a promotion/relegation game despite that though, which is a farce. Thank christ there's no glass ceiling in place to stop us getting back to 1a like there is for 2a, must be very frustrating for them.


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    #128
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    Ropaire wrote: »
    Kerry won 2a yet again after the final today. They still have to play a promotion/relegation game despite that though, which is a farce. Thank christ there's no glass ceiling in place to stop us getting back to 1a like there is for 2a, must be very frustrating for them.

    Big disappointment for westmeath and Michael Ryan there. They would have been really expecting a win. I know skullys big aim for the year was to try and win 2A and get up to 1B im sure he would have fancied taking Antrim aswell. Cant see kerry beating antrim unfortunately


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    #129
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    stumblingblock wrote: »
    Big disappointment for westmeath and Michael Ryan there. They would have been really expecting a win. I know skullys big aim for the year was to try and win 2A and get up to 1B im sure he would have fancied taking Antrim aswell. Cant see kerry beating antrim unfortunately

    Westmeath won the league part but lost the final, that's happened to Limerick a few times as well and is also an unfair way to do it. Limerick deserved to be promoted more than once since they ended up in 1b. It makes sense to promote the team that finishes first, like we were. Why does there need to be a final and this kinda messing in the GAA in the lower divisions all the time, we love finals in league structures when we don't really need them and they don't really benefit anyone! Thankfully it isn't impacting us, but it's still something that should be looked at.


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    #130
    Picasso100
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Picasso100


    Can't help notice the footballers finished joint bottom of the league.

    Where are all the clowns that were on here a few weeks ago?
    Some of them reckoned we were turning into a football county after winning that Micky mouse competition.
    Just cause we the beat the Cork U16s.

    Time now we stuck a pin in every football and forget about it.


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    #131
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Should Wicklow give up on Gaelic games altogether?


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    #132
    archieknox
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭archieknox


    Picasso100 wrote: »
    Can't help notice the footballers finished joint bottom of the league.

    Where are all the clowns that were on here a few weeks ago?
    Some of them reckoned we were turning into a football county after winning that Micky mouse competition.
    Just cause we the beat the Cork U16s.

    Time now we stuck a pin in every football and forget about it.

    Couldn't agree more its gone very quiet about it! Be careful now because we have a serious chance at minor football level this year so all is not lost!


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    #133
    archieknox
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭archieknox


    deiseach wrote: »
    Should Wicklow give up on Gaelic games altogether?

    Should kilkenny take football seriously?


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    #134
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    archieknox wrote: »
    Should kilkenny take football seriously?

    I think they should be ashamed of themselves that they don't. People on here are embarrassed by Walsh Park, yet that should be in the ha'penny place next to not only not taking football seriously but treating it with a studied contempt.


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    #135
    archieknox
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭archieknox


    deiseach wrote: »
    I think they should be ashamed of themselves that they don't. People on here are embarrassed by Walsh Park, yet that should be in the ha'penny place next to not only not taking football seriously but treating it with a studied contempt.

    When you're talking to Brian Cody and Ned Quinn make sure to say that to them!


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    #136
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    deiseach wrote: »
    I think they should be ashamed of themselves that they don't. People on here are embarrassed by Walsh Park, yet that should be in the ha'penny place next to not only not taking football seriously but treating it with a studied contempt.

    The same goes for counties not taking hurling seriously if you ask me. The entire northern half of the island bar antrim shows a similar level of respect to hurling that kilkenny shows football, yet people only ever single out kilkenny with this argument.


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    #137
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    archieknox wrote: »
    When you're talking to Brian Cody and Ned Quinn make sure to say that to them!

    Heh. Strictly speaking I was born in Mooncoin so I have ways and means to contact the latter. Be sure to give me a good send-off :D


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    #138
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Ropaire wrote: »
    The same goes for counties not taking hurling seriously if you ask me. The entire northern half of the island bar antrim shows a similar level of respect to hurling that kilkenny shows football, yet people only ever single out kilkenny with this argument.

    As far as I know, Cavan are the county that don't have a senior hurling team so they're the only ones who can be bracketed with Kilkenny in the terms I expressed.


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    #139
    3ships
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭3ships


    Minor Team Wed
    1 Billy Nolan Roanmore
    2 Darragh Lynch Passage
    3 Conor Prunty Abbeyside
    4 Darragh McGrath Abbeyside
    5 Jordan Henley Tallow
    6 Calum Lyons Ballyduff Lower
    7 Cormac Dunphy Ballyduff Lower
    8 Darragh Lyons Dungarvan
    9 JP Lucey Shamrocks
    10 Peter Hogan Ballygunner
    11 Andy Molumby Cappoquin
    12 Eddie Meaney De La Salle
    13 Aaron O Sullivan Cappoquin
    14 Jack Prendergast Lismore
    15 Glenn Waters Dungarvan

    8 of last years panel named, 4 starters in Nolan Prunty Darragh Lyons and Peter Hogan who will be the stars this year. The Ballyduff Lower Lads provided the engine for the St Declan's schools campaign and the half forward line looks decent. The Prendergasts of Lismore are normally good so hope there is a few scores there. Probably short 2 or 3 to be as good as what went before them but will find out more this week so best of luck to the lads.


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    #140
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Does anyone have any idea of who's strong in Munster minor hurling this year. Who are the teams to beat? Where do Waterford rank this year in Munster? Playing Tipp on Wednesday in the first round i think.


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    #141
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any idea of who's strong in Munster minor hurling this year. Who are the teams to beat? Where do Waterford rank this year in Munster? Playing Tipp on Wednesday in the first round i think.

    There wouldn’t be massive expectations of this group. Physically I think it’s not the biggest group of players weve produced. Some nice tidy hurlers no doubt.

    Cork will be as strong at minor this year as they’ve been in a while. Tipp will be strong aswell, won Tony Forrestal 4 years ago and possibly Nenagh Co –op u16 aswell if memory serves me right. Clare still have a lot of last years team on the age again this year including Shanagher who destroyed us. Limerick it’s hard to know, they’ve lost most of the good minor team of the past 2 years, a bit like ourselves.

    I think after producing some good minor and colleges teams over the past 5 or 6 years Id fear there could be a bit of a lull over the next couple years. Looking at how our development squads and colleges performed from u17 down last year we weren’t very successful. Possibly will have only 2 Harty Cup teams from next year aswell as Dungarvan CBS as a very small school wont be able to stay competitive. We have to be careful and not take the eye off the ball as regards the grassroots work, as is often the case after a county like us produces a good crop of young players. Lets just keeping working hard and hopefully the conveyor belt will keep on rolling for us.

    Best of luck to the lads tomorrow night.


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    #142
    3ships
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭3ships


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any idea of who's strong in Munster minor hurling this year. Who are the teams to beat? Where do Waterford rank this year in Munster? Playing Tipp on Wednesday in the first round i think.


    I'm sure there is more knowledgeable posters than me on this. What I can read of it is that Cork, Limerick and Tipp will be equipped to win Munster and ourselves and Clare will have to battle to get to a final.
    Cork have been resurgent underage recently, showing up well in development squad games and and schools over the last 18 months. Cork won the U-17 tournament last year, not a great indicator but an indicator nonetheless. This coupled with schools form makes them a favorite. Limerick also got to that U-17 final without up to 14 of the minor panel from last year. They have the Dalo factor too for what its worth and a motivational speak from Padraig Harrington behind them. Tipp have a home run to the final and maybe out of Munster and that could be enough for them. They will have that advantage over Waterford and size before the hurling even starts on Wednesday. Haven't heard much from Clare, you normally hear when there good.

    Hard to call with minors, there is no odds on it yet. Expect Cork favorites then Limerick and Tipp, then ourselves and Clare. Limerick for 3 in a row is my pick


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    #143
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any idea of who's strong in Munster minor hurling this year. Who are the teams to beat? Where do Waterford rank this year in Munster? Playing Tipp on Wednesday in the first round i think.

    Tipp are big faves to win Munster, then Limerick.


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    #144
    blueflame
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    Over the last number of years there has been very little between any of the Munster sides at minor level. It makes me laugh the way some people on here talk as if Cork have been crap for the last couple of years and are getting their act together just now. They were within the puck of a ball of knocking out our All Ireland winning side. If you look back at results there have been a large number of minor games have gone to extra time, and there have been many top class sides who have gone out early but with a bit of luck might have won an All Ireland.

    I believe Tipp and Cork are the favorites this year, but that Clare, Limerick and Waterford are not too far behind. Waterford as i understand it have been preparing well and a lot of work has gone in, they have struggled to-date against the bigger physical sides, but the ground hardening up might help on that front with the ball moving a lot faster. Best of luck to all involved


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    #145
    N20
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭N20


    blueflame wrote: »
    Over the last number of years there has been very little between any of the Munster sides at minor level. It makes me laugh the way some people on here talk as if Cork have been crap for the last couple of years and are getting their act together just now. They were within the puck of a ball of knocking out our All Ireland winning side. If you look back at results there have been a large number of minor games have gone to extra time, and there have been many top class sides who have gone out early but with a bit of luck might have won an All Ireland.

    I believe Tipp and Cork are the favorites this year, but that Clare, Limerick and Waterford are not too far behind. Waterford as i understand it have been preparing well and a lot of work has gone in, they have struggled to-date against the bigger physical sides, but the ground hardening up might help on that front with the ball moving a lot faster. Best of luck to all involved

    An excellent assessment

    It's very hard to judge until the heat of battle

    I would agree form over last few years and of late would give nod to Tipp & Cork but Limerick and waterford will have significant experience and confidence with recent successes

    Clare are in long grass so hard to know

    Hopefully a good kick off on Wed night


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    #146
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    blueflame wrote: »
    Over the last number of years there has been very little between any of the Munster sides at minor level. It makes me laugh the way some people on here talk as if Cork have been crap for the last couple of years and are getting their act together just now. They were within the puck of a ball of knocking out our All Ireland winning side. If you look back at results there have been a large number of minor games have gone to extra time, and there have been many top class sides who have gone out early but with a bit of luck might have won an All Ireland.

    I believe Tipp and Cork are the favorites this year, but that Clare, Limerick and Waterford are not too far behind. Waterford as i understand it have been preparing well and a lot of work has gone in, they have struggled to-date against the bigger physical sides, but the ground hardening up might help on that front with the ball moving a lot faster. Best of luck to all involved

    Cork had a decent but hugely over-hyped team two years back and we have been shocking poor almost every year otherwise. People rate us this year on the back of Cork schools doing well in the Harty, but this group has done nothing at U-14 to U-17 and has a very mediocre group of backs. K


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    #147
    thinkstoomuch1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭thinkstoomuch1


    Orizio wrote: »
    Cork had a decent but hugely over-hyped team two years back and we have been shocking poor almost every year otherwise. People rate us this year on the back of Cork schools doing well in the Harty, but this group has done nothing at U-14 to U-17 and has a very mediocre group of backs. K
    The team was not over hyped at all in fact as proven since cork had one of the worst ever minor coaches in pat kenneally who record at minor intermediate and under twenty one was appalling and beyond mediocre as you will see by review he's record and the fact eight team played Waterford were playing in wrong positions it was credit to the players for pushing Waterford to extra time
    The real judge that minor team will be next year at under twenty one who will be much better as hsve good coaching
    Last year kenneally was with them and he was poor
    The minors backs that were picked are grand, problems is some are played out of positions and some best are subbing and in this case management are doing the correct thing as in case meet limerick twice want hold something in reserve that'd why likes hennessy, gunning and looney who are certain to start later games are just subs like wise john cashman
    Cork would definitely be second favourite ahead of limerick as limerick panel is far from the strongest picked unlike cork they imo don't have great subs and huge doubts imo regards o Connor and daly dynamic

    A huge loss to limerick is the injured mickey mackey out for probably a considerable time
    Most of the rochestown lads on the cork panel deserve to be there and it was great performance v kieran considered dualism affected them and that kieran team had eight last year KK minor team plus around eight kieran team won all Ireland last year
    There is absolutely nothing mediocre about smith griffin o leary who is eligible next year
    Chris o leary is outstanding backs and despite being played midfield to start imo will be playing sweeper as limerick are set up play sweeper with flangan likely to drop out from full forward and play deep
    If not him Murphy will
    Daly team are always physical and play a sweeper
    Cork hsve picked a horses for course selection with out he being the strongest cork team
    Cork want to win but also have huge room improve for semi as clear as day team was picked with that in mind
    Waterford are certainly not the strongest to other years but if they loose to tipp and play limerick based on that limerick panel and consider Waterford owe limerick a win certainly attainable for Waterford to hsve a big say in the championship
    Minors while hard to predict it's very hard to see limerick winning again
    As good as Harrington motivated speech was it's irrelevant on field play if tactics coaching are not up to scratch
    That'd the test for limerick
    There is no doubt there's huge expectation on cork minors as year two was always going be judgements day for this minor management imo


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    #148
    N20
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭N20


    thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »
    The team was not over hyped at all in fact as proven since cork had one of the worst ever minor coaches in pat kenneally who record at minor intermediate and under twenty one was appalling and beyond mediocre as you will see by review he's record and the fact eight team played Waterford were playing in wrong positions it was credit to the players for pushing Waterford to extra time
    The real judge that minor team will be next year at under twenty one who will be much better as hsve good coaching
    Last year kenneally was with them and he was poor
    The minors backs that were picked are grand, problems is some are played out of positions and some best are subbing and in this case management are doing the correct thing as in case meet limerick twice want hold something in reserve that'd why likes hennessy, gunning and looney who are certain to start later games are just subs like wise john cashman
    Cork would definitely be second favourite ahead of limerick as limerick panel is far from the strongest picked unlike cork they imo don't have great subs and huge doubts imo regards o Connor and daly dynamic

    A huge loss to limerick is the injured mickey mackey out for probably a considerable time
    Most of the rochestown lads on the cork panel deserve to be there and it was great performance v kieran considered dualism affected them and that kieran team had eight last year KK minor team plus around eight kieran team won all Ireland last year
    There is absolutely nothing mediocre about smith griffin o leary who is eligible next year
    Chris o leary is outstanding backs and despite being played midfield to start imo will be playing sweeper as limerick are set up play sweeper with flangan likely to drop out from full forward and play deep
    If not him Murphy will
    Daly team are always physical and play a sweeper
    Cork hsve picked a horses for course selection with out he being the strongest cork team
    Cork want to win but also have huge room improve for semi as clear as day team was picked with that in mind
    Waterford are certainly not the strongest to other years but if they loose to tipp and play limerick based on that limerick panel and consider Waterford owe limerick a win certainly attainable for Waterford to hsve a big say in the championship
    Minors while hard to predict it's very hard to see limerick winning again
    As good as Harrington motivated speech was it's irrelevant on field play if tactics coaching are not up to scratch
    That'd the test for limerick
    There is no doubt there's huge expectation on cork minors as year two was always going be judgements day for this minor management imo


    I agree with a good share - but not all - of what you've said here

    Cork need a minor / 21 win badly - These wins have been huge boosts to the other counties in munster last few years


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    #149
    3ships
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭3ships


    Good discussion on the minors anyway. Not sure about lamenting Corks' replay and extra time losses from a couple of years ago when we have had those ourselves in Munster Finals and an All Ireland semi. However surely Cork can now start winning games at his level.

    So It looks like Tipp are favs with Cork then Limerick next but as we all know nothing is certain at minor. Clare are not out till July I think so we won't worry about them now. Cork had a strong showing at u-17 last year but it's probably true to look at previous Arrabawn and Tony Forristal tournaments as better indications. In that regard Tipp have better form. Tipp also beat the Cats in a challenge last week so that's as good a guide as any.

    Home comforts may prevail. Tipp have that. Cork have that tomorrow but may have to go to the Gaelic grounds later in the year. The Munster Final will be Thurles or Limerick this year. Waterford will be on the road throughout unless they meet Cork in the back door. Waterford did beat the Leinster League Winners Wexford by a point last week so they'll be competitive. I'll be in Thurles tomorrow to find out for sure.


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    #150
    thinkstoomuch1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭thinkstoomuch1


    3ships wrote: »
    Good discussion on the minors anyway. Not sure about lamenting Corks' replay and extra time losses from a couple of years ago when we have had those ourselves in Munster Finals and an All Ireland semi. However surely Cork can now start winning games at his level.

    So It looks like Tipp are favs with Cork then Limerick next but as we all know nothing is certain at minor. Clare are not out till July I think so we won't worry about them now. Cork had a strong showing at u-17 last year but it's probably true to look at previous Arrabawn and Tony Forristal tournaments as better indications. In that regard Tipp have better form. Tipp also beat the Cats in a challenge last week so that's as good a guide as any.

    Home comforts may prevail. Tipp have that. Cork have that tomorrow but may have to go to the Gaelic grounds later in the year. The Munster Final will be Thurles or Limerick this year. Waterford will be on the road throughout unless they meet Cork in the back door. Waterford did beat the Leinster League Winners Wexford by a point last week so they'll be competitive. I'll be in Thurles tomorrow to find out for sure.
    I'd agree with that
    Clare are the weakest of all the teams , coaching is not the best their either and good work jamsie o Connor doing with flannans and kinnerk caoimhns won't bear fruit for another year or two
    While shangher is good he's certainly mark able as harty games showed where good full backs held him easily
    Hayes and few more they have some good hurlers but I think out of all munster teams based on coaching and talent imo are the weakest this year
    From cork view point munster final has be target in then you guaranteed quatre final all Ireland
    Anything else huge worry cork hurling in if they don't big review as to take place in talent of development squads and schools and good management has all been combined for this group
    Nobody wants to put pressure on them and it's unfair but unfortunately the neglect of under age cork puts such demands on every cork minor team plays until get munster final
    It's the reality of the situation
    Waterford coaching from what I hear meant to be okay so that should stand to them and if lost tipp but it was competitive would not be too bad
    I don't think cork will fear gaelic grounds in went up their last year and done well with lot injury and disruption training due senior intermediate games days before plus loose two key players mid game
    The difficulty cork hsve in its tricky is get win without showing the full hand and having lot left in the tank and that's way team picked as that starting team won't beat limerick twice but hope is get win at home ist day
    People questions if cork want to win
    I think cork have go for win as need confidence but certainly would not field strongest team yet
    It could back fire but I don't think way draw is they have any choice be honest
    If they lost while not ideal I'd rather go full strength team then play off and then semi final than play best team Wednesday same team play limerick twice
    So in essence trying get win with soild but not strongest team I'd have back our management here imo
    It's crazy system in minor should be changed imo


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    #151
    Horseboxhead
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Horseboxhead


    So Cork, who need to start producing performences and results are " Pulling their Punches " in terms of team selection, Sorry just sounds a bit off, if a Waterford man said it about a Waterford side, every one would think thats one serious stupid , arrogant, fool of a man.
    We're Holding some aces is bull**** , at Minor Level, when you have no real idea how these guys will react, on their first real taste of Championship Hurling, i Presume it can only be said to soften any blow that might come, it is only a matter of When , that Cork will arrive back as a driving force at this Level , History and Demographics dictate that, but this cute Corkman nonsence, Rubbish.
    Cork Have real shot at winning a munster minor title, and need to do so soon, no coach is going to take a chance on Injury or loss of form, or any of the other major or minor blows that can derail a season, it could be just , that in his Opinion he has his best team out.


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