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Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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    #782
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    not yet wrote: »
    Yeah but think of the poor children....

    The thinking seems to be that we are well of in comparison to these countries, so should share the wealth.

    Yeah well, sorry to break it to these guys but thats bollix, its not what the average guy thinks, and no matter how vocal they are it won't change the fact that we have a duty to think of our own children first. I know I do. If they want to make a difference then tell them to lobby those that pull the strings on a world level... the US government, the Chinese authorities, the often tyrannic leaders of the countries from which those they wish to improve come from...
    Look at the refugee system here.. most right minded people will admit that the majority of those who came here seeking asylum were economic migrants. We spent millions apon millions dealing with them, feeding them etc etc. That money could have been used to help genuine refugees, people who are now dead because no one could or would help them... Its time for common sense not bull****.


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    #783
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    A Greek lad I used to work with bragged about the fact that Greece only had a tiny far right party, considering the number of illegals in Greece. Showed how tolerant they were, apparently.

    That was nine years ago. Now that tiny fringe party are polling as the third largest party in the state.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    That would depend entirely on what it is you think i'm wishing for.

    Anyway, we've had four years (if we assume your linked piece was some kind of watershed moment or whatever) and yet there's been no upswing in far right parties or indeed populist parties embracing that platform.

    In the same time both Greece and Ireland have gone into recession.... so your idea of Ireland experiencing a similar shift to the right seem fanciful at best.

    That said, we'll always have a vocal minority, but don't confuse your loudness with there being a "silent majority", it's just fruitless ego stroking.


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    #784
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    hooradiation wrote: »
    That would depend entirely on what it is you think i'm wishing for.

    Anyway, we've had four years (if we assume your linked piece was some kind of watershed moment or whatever) and yet there's been no upswing in far right parties or indeed populist parties embracing that platform.

    In the same time both Greece and Ireland have gone into recession.... so your idea of Ireland experiencing a similar shift to the right seem fanciful at best.

    That said, we'll always have a vocal minority, but don't confuse your loudness with there being a "silent majority", it's just fruitless ego stroking.

    I don't know about ego stroking but what I do know is that 'vocal minorities' often seem to believe that their wishes should take precedence over those of the majority, which is an affront to democracy. I think one poster even suggested that for politicians to do what the people wanted was a bit mad..
    that is an absolutely ridiculous assertion and I'm amazed it was left unchallenged


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    #785
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    johnty56 wrote: »
    I don't know about ego stroking but what I do know is that 'vocal minorities' often seem to believe that their wishes should take precedence over those of the majority, which is an affront to democracy. I think one poster even suggested that for politicians to do what the people wanted was a bit mad..
    that is an absolutely ridiculous assertion and I'm amazed it was left unchallenged

    Well ideally I'd like to pay no taxes and have a system of free health care for all with good roads and public transport throughout the country. Unfortunately, the politicians job is to ensure that what is best for the country is carried out and what I want doesn't come into it.

    The time we get to say what we want is when elections come up. What happens then ? - politicians lie to ensure they get your vote. I maybe a bit mad but I can see the reality of the situation


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    #786
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    greendom wrote: »
    Well ideally I'd like to pay no taxes and have a system of free health care for all with good roads and public transport throughout the country. Unfortunately, the politicians job is to ensure that what is best for the country is carried out and what I want doesn't come into it.

    The time we get to say what we want is when elections come up. What happens then ? - politicians lie to ensure they get your vote. I maybe a bit mad but I can see the reality of the situation

    I asked a now sitting td what his views were on immigration during the general election 2011 campaign. He replied by asking me - what angle are you coming from, pro immigration or no?


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    #787
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    greendom wrote: »
    Well ideally I'd like to pay no taxes and have a system of free health care for all with good roads and public transport throughout the country. Unfortunately, the politicians job is to ensure that what is best for the country is carried out and what I want doesn't come into it.

    The time we get to say what we want is when elections come up. What happens then ? - politicians lie to ensure they get your vote. I maybe a bit mad but I can see the reality of the situation

    You haven't really thought about that have you? The basic premise of democracy is that adults are just that, adults, and will think about what is best and these are the things they will ask their elected representatives to achieve on their behalf. Half the population are men, most would like free coke and hookers but they don't ask their politicians to provide them because they are not idiots.
    Democracy works on the principle of 'the wisdom of the crowd'. If you don't know what it is google it, then google democracy, then google ' a small number of people imposing their will on the majority'- I think you'll find references to fascism etc.


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    #788
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    hooradiation wrote: »
    That would depend entirely on what it is you think i'm wishing for.

    Anyway, we've had four years (if we assume your linked piece was some kind of watershed moment or whatever) and yet there's been no upswing in far right parties or indeed populist parties embracing that platform.

    In the same time both Greece and Ireland have gone into recession.... so your idea of Ireland experiencing a similar shift to the right seem fanciful at best.

    That said, we'll always have a vocal minority, but don't confuse your loudness with there being a "silent majority", it's just fruitless ego stroking.

    I didnt say Ireland would slide to the right - my point was that you never know what the future holds and not get too smug. Golden dawn are a bit too mad for me but a ukip style party would do very in Ireland.

    The fact remains, the majority of Irish people want immigration clamed down upon. Thats far from a minority view, its a fact proven by each and every opinion poll conducted on the issue. I could have used any of the opinion polls to back my point up, but randomly chose the one from four years ago. Not because it was a watershed moment - as they all have the same result.


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    #789
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    Just to be clear here, I am firmly in favour of immigration. Ireland has thrived as a result of some forms of immigration, namely immigration of skilled and talented people who are essential for the knowledge based economy we wish to build.
    What we don't need is unskilled migrants with little to add in terms of economic activity, and little wish to integrate or even learn the language we speak, such as the situation our nearest neighbours have found themselves, with sections of their community existing in tandem and in complete isolation.
    This is not in the least Racist and if any of you wish to state otherwise please do so and I will pursue the matter through the courts as it would be clearly slanderous.


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    #790
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    johnty56 wrote: »
    You haven't really thought about that have you? The basic premise of democracy is that adults are just that, adults, and will think about what is best and these are the things they will ask their elected representatives to achieve on their behalf. Half the population are men, most would like free coke and hookers but they don't ask their politicians to provide them because they are not idiots.
    Democracy works on the principle of 'the wisdom of the crowd'. If you don't know what it is google it, then google democracy, then google ' a small number of people imposing their will on the majority'- I think you'll find references to fascism etc.

    You're probably not too far from the truth with that summary. How democratic is our country, really ?


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    #791
    LizT
    Registered Users Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    I think we're done here, the discussion has been going around in circles for a while.


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