Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

Bergkamp 10 · 16-09-2011 5:34pm

He wont win, but the thing is I dont think Norris will win either. I would say alot of people will not vote for either of them for several different reasons.

Micheal D Higgins could be the massive winner here, I think he would make a good president also.

Really hope nobody else wins though. I guess it all comes down to the this:
The Irish public take everything read in the papers as truth, so who will the media back their bandwagon for against McGuinness?

Wolfe Tone · 16-09-2011 5:34pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

What would cause outrage? I think most would have been surprised if they didn't run someone. No chance of winning anyway.

Wait and see...

vellocet · 16-09-2011 5:34pm

NSNO wrote: »

Yawn. We both know that in the collective memory and opinion of the Irish people that there is a massive difference between Martin McGuinness and those two men. Any attempt at comparing them is either deliberate disingenuity or utter delusion.

But thats not what you said. You inferred the Irish electorate would never vote senior IRA men into the office. I gave you two examples of them doing exactly that.

Liam Byrne · 16-09-2011 5:37pm

mike65 wrote: »

When taking the salute I imagine the Irish Army would be far too polite to shoot the President of Ireland dead.

The actual Irish Army or the crowd that just call themselves that ?

Wolfe Tone · 16-09-2011 5:37pm

So you will be voting for him then Liam?

NSNO · 16-09-2011 5:38pm

vellocet wrote: »

But thats not what you said. You inferred the Irish electorate would never vote senior IRA men into the office. I gave you two examples of them doing exactly that.

So is it disingenuity or utter delusion then?

hotmail.com · 16-09-2011 5:41pm

He will draw the average industrial wage, but the remainder of his salary will go back into the Sinn Fein organisation. I think that's disgraceful. The salary should just be reduced dramatically and that's it.

There's one thing having a Sinn Fein candidate as a councillor or even a TD, but the head of state? I can't see him getting the necessary 35% first preference vote, but he will do well.

I think it's time FF supported Norris.

phantom_lord · 16-09-2011 5:42pm

gambiaman wrote: »

Just heard on TV3, if elected he will draw the avg. industrial wage for himself.
That's one box ticked for me - Mr Higgins waffled and did not answer the question when asked although he said he'd defer his multiple taxpayers provided pensions.

And will give the rest to SF, it's not like he's returning it to the exchequer or using it for any useful cause.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Wait and see...

What would you rate his chances of winning?

vellocet · 16-09-2011 5:43pm

NSNO wrote: »

So is it disingenuity or utter delusion then?

Try harder petal.

The point is obvious. While a large chunk of the electorate won't vote MMG because of his military past, there are people who will, and history shows that they have. Two Presidents of the Republic were senior IRA men. If you think Dev was less controversial when he moved into mainstream politics than MMG, I suggest you do a bit of reading about the time.

The one bad thing about this candidate is we will have a pain in our holes with the Sindo hysteria about it. I am going to open a book on the first commentator based on talbot st who claims they will emigrate if he wins.

Liam Byrne · 16-09-2011 5:46pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So you will be voting for him then Liam?

Naw.....y'see I treat everyone the same, objectively evaluating their opinions and actions.

So McGuinness, Ahern, Norris are absolutely out, and if I keep the objectivity going then Gay Mitchell is out for the same (if slightly less objectionable) reasons as Norris and McGuinness - supporting murderers.

It's looking like the only "least objectionable" option is Mickey D, and I wouldn't be impressed enough with him enough to vote for him were it not for the fact that I will do my damnedest to ensure that the other 3 don't get in.

Anyway - now that I have your attention; how come you're ruling Norris out because he wrote letters trying to get criminals off for their crime, but you're happy to support McGuinness who did the exact same thing ?

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 5:46pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

He will draw the average industrial wage, but the remainder of his salary will go back into the Sinn Fein organisation. I think that's disgraceful. The salary should just be reduced dramatically and that's it.

I agree that balance shouldn't be put into any partys funds but I like to see actual persons not gorge themselves personally on the public's tit.
All of the other candidates will take the outrageous full whack for themselves personally and not bat an eyelid in embarrassement at doing it.

Fully agree the salary should scaled back dramatically to reflect the country's state today- at the very least it would be a sign of true leadership for the country eclipsing any old tat like 'listening tours' and 'Proud at home, respect abroad' utter rubbish.

dulpit · 16-09-2011 5:47pm

Buddy of mine just pointed out that at least McGuinness has experience with running an army, so there's a plus for him... :pac:

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 5:48pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

And will give the rest to SF, it's not like he's returning it to the exchequer or using it for any useful cause.

More than likely, see my other post.

NSNO · 16-09-2011 5:48pm

vellocet wrote: »

Try harder petal.

The point is obvious. While a large chunk of the electorate won't vote MMG because of his military past, there are people who will, and history shows that they have. Two Presidents of the Republic were senior IRA men. If you think Dev was less controversial when he moved into mainstream politics than MMG, I suggest you do a bit of reading about the time.

The one bad thing about this candidate is we will have a pain in our holes with the Sindo hysteria about it. I am going to open a book on the first commentator based on talbot st who claims they will emigrate if he wins.

The fact that you're even comparing De Valera and O'Kelly to McGuinness boggles the mind. If you think that the Troubles is comparable to the War Of Independence or the Civil War (in which neither O'Kelly or De Valera took an active role and both tried to stop) in the minds of the Irish public then you're beyond help.

And his "military" past? Really? :rolleyes:

PeterIanStaker · 16-09-2011 5:48pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The Sindo certainly won't like this election!

I don't like SF or McGuinness, but it'd be interesting to see if this news gives some of the Sindo's esteemed hack journos an aneurysm or two!

PomBear · 16-09-2011 5:49pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rYyJZimqw4

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 5:50pm

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I don't like SF or McGuinness, but it'd be interesting to see if this news gives some of the Sindo's esteemed hack journos an aneurysm or two!

Fingers crossed.

southsiderosie · 16-09-2011 5:54pm

seamus wrote: »

I also can't see the logic in moving from his current position to a ceremonial one like Irish president. It would seem to me to be a step down for anyone with such a strong stake in NI politics like McGuinnes.

Yeah, this is what I don't get. There is still a lot of mistrust in NI politics, but McGuinness seems to draw pretty broad support. Things up there are still a mess, especially economically, and I wonder if NI would be better off with him as an engaged politician up there rather than in a largely ceremonial position in the South.

That said, what a long, strange road MMG has taken over the course of his life!

dlofnep · 16-09-2011 5:55pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

Yeah, this is what I don't get. There is still a lot of mistrust in NI politics, but McGuinness seems to draw pretty broad support. Things up there are still a mess, especially economically, and I wonder if NI would be better off with him as an engaged politician up there rather than in a largely ceremonial position in the South.

The poor economy in the north is certainly not the fault of McGuinness. His presence in politics there ensures that the peace process remains vibrant, and that both communities come closer together - building ties.

hotmail.com · 16-09-2011 5:55pm

gambiaman wrote: »

I agree that balance shouldn't be put into any partys funds but I like to see actual persons not gorge themselves personally on the public's tit.
All of the other candidates will take the outrageous full whack for themselves personally and not bat an eyelid in embarrassement at doing it.

Fully agree the salary should scaled back dramatically to reflect the country's state today- at the very least it would be a sign of true leadership for the country eclipsing any old tat like 'listening tours' and 'Proud at home, respect abroad' utter rubbish.

The president has virtually no expenses. No mortgage, no car, petrol, no living expenses, no insurance (house or car) etc etc. Any salary the president gets is basically all disposable income.

Hence the salary shouldn't be more than 45k IMO. It currently stands at 250k.

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 5:56pm

I believe the thinking behind this candidacy is not to actually win (that would be a big ask as SF are still fairly toxic transferwise though not as bad as FF now) but to effectively drive maybe the final nail into the beast that was FF.

vellocet · 16-09-2011 5:59pm

NSNO wrote: »

The fact that you're even comparing De Valera and O'Kelly to McGuinness boggles the mind. If you think that the Troubles is comparable to the War Of Independence or the Civil War (in which neither O'Kelly or De Valera took an active role and both tried to stop) in the minds of the Irish public then you're beyond help.

And his "military" past? Really? :rolleyes:

Christ on a honda. YOU are the one who claimed the Irish electorate would never vote an IRA man in as President. I pointed out they had done so twice before. This isn't difficult.

Dev didn't have an active role in the Civil War? What? He led the anti-treaty forces ffs. O'Kelly was jailed.

This is the problem. You are being a nincompoop and I predict 2 solid months of this inane stuff from all quarters.

southsiderosie · 16-09-2011 5:59pm

dlofnep wrote: »

The poor economy in the north is certainly not the fault of McGuinness. His presence in politics there ensures that the peace process remains vibrant, and that both communities come closer together - building ties.

No, I'm not saying it is his fault at all. What I'm saying is that because his role is essentially maintaining and managing cohesion, and massive reforms are needed - which is painful in any political context, but esp in NI - that it would seem that his role in Stormont would be more important than his potential role in the Aras.

hotmail.com · 16-09-2011 6:00pm

gambiaman wrote: »

I believe the thinking behind this candidacy is not to actually win (that would be a big ask as SF are still fairly toxic transferwise though not as bad as FF now) but to effectively drive maybe the final nail into the beast that was FF.

This is possibly true. He has also spoiled any chance of Mary Davies or Sean Gallagher having a chance at winning, they'll get squeezed. They should drop out now to save some money.

McGunniess will just say sure wasn't Dev in the IRA when asked about his IRA past and he has a point.

dlofnep · 16-09-2011 6:05pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

No, I'm not saying it is his fault at all. What I'm saying is that because his role is essentially maintaining and managing cohesion, and massive reforms are needed - which is painful in any political context, but esp in NI - that it would seem that his role in Stormont would be more important than his potential role in the Aras.

That is the view of my mother, that his work in the north is critically important (She's not a SF voter). However, I don't believe that Martin as president of Ireland will not possess the ability to continue to uphold peace and reconciliation. There will be much work for him to do, but it will be in the interest s of everybody on the Island.

There are many young, talented politicians in the north in SF who can assist this transition.

Liam Byrne · 16-09-2011 6:07pm

I think the OP has gone to ground, but I'm gonna try again

how come you're ruling Norris out because he wrote letters trying to get criminals off for their crime, but you're happy to support McGuinness who did the exact same thing ?

vetstu · 16-09-2011 6:11pm

Good job, he'll get my vote anyway. Better him than Dorris

hotmail.com · 16-09-2011 6:19pm

vetstu wrote: »

Good job, he'll get my vote anyway. Better him than Dorris

Does his gayness bother you that much?

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 6:20pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is possibly true. He has also spoiled any chance of Mary Davies or Sean Gallagher having a chance at winning, they'll get squeezed. They should drop out now to save some money.

McGunniess will just say sure wasn't Dev in the IRA when asked about his IRA past and he has a point.

I think Gay Mitchell is on his knees in thanks to his god tonight while over in Galway, MDH is biting his knuckles and flying into one of his little fits of rage right now!:D

lugha · 16-09-2011 6:21pm

dlofnep wrote: »

However, I don't believe that Martin as president of Ireland will not possess the ability to continue to uphold peace and reconciliation.

He won't be able to anything meaningful (possibly anything at all) without the approval of the FG led government.

And do you really think electing a SF man head of state will do anything for reconciliation between the two tribes. Do you think unionists would be more open to a UI as a result? ..... Actually, maybe I should vote for him. :pac:

dlofnep wrote: »

There are many young, talented politicians in the north in SF who can assist this transition.

I will fall over an bang my head if I were ever to hear a member of any political party who didn't think their own ranks were stuffed with talent!

HellsAngel · 16-09-2011 6:35pm

lugha wrote: »

He won't be able to anything meaningful (possibly anything at all) without the approval of the FG led government.

The Pres cannot be seen to interfer with Govt policy, it states so in the Constitution. They cann't start saying, " Oh lets do X,Y and Z with the euro and bailout ", all they can do is empathise with the country and hope for better days and meet foreign dignatories etc

And do you really think electing a SF man head of state will do anything for reconciliation between the two tribes. Do you think unionists would be more open to a UI as a result? ..... Actually, maybe I should vote for him.

Well I don't see why we should listen to a word from the unionists, they never have a decent word to say to nationalism regardless. And anyway, If they can accept MMcG as Deputy First Minister in the six counties they can hardly start gobbing off about him down here.

blahfckingblah · 16-09-2011 6:37pm

hmm he's likely to get my vote at this stage although it makes me wonder what way this will affect them in NI

HellsAngel · 16-09-2011 6:39pm

dlofnep wrote: »

That is the view of my mother, that his work in the north is critically important (She's not a SF voter). However, I don't believe that Martin as president of Ireland will not possess the ability to continue to uphold peace and reconciliation. There will be much work for him to do, but it will be in the interest s of everybody on the Island.

There are many young, talented politicians in the north in SF who can assist this transition.

My honest two cents dlofnep, a crazy decision and a waste of money and resources. I could see SF supporting Micky Harte or Robert Ballagh, but Martim was too 'invovled' for the crowd down here. Dr Sir AJF O'Reilly's comics will go balistic !!!!!

<snip>

Paparazzo · 16-09-2011 6:39pm

gambiaman wrote: »

It's SF. It's McGuinness. What's not to draw outrage!

Just heard on TV3, if elected he will draw the avg. industrial wage for himself.
That's one box ticked for me - Mr Higgins waffled and did not answer the question when asked although he said he'd defer his multiple taxpayers provided pensions.

I assume you never talked to a Sinn Fein member canvassing?
Will you get rid of the toll? Yes
Will you sort out the car park outside my house? Yes
Will you tell the bond holders to fúck off? Yes
Will you lower taxes? Yes
Will you give me a pay rise? Yes
Will you drop coropration tax rates? Yes.
But that will mean big companies will leave ireland. "Errr, no then"
Will you send toireasa ferris around to give me a lapdance? Yes

I know politicians say anything to get a vote, but Sinn Fein take the biscuit.

dlofnep · 16-09-2011 6:44pm

lugha wrote: »

He won't be able to anything meaningful (possibly anything at all) without the approval of the FG led government.

Since when did building peace in Ireland require the approval of the Government?

lugha wrote: »

And do you really think electing a SF man head of state will do anything for reconciliation between the two tribes. Do you think unionists would be more open to a UI as a result?

I don't think it will hinder or help the cause. He already co-holds the highest position in the northern assembly. It's not as if they are not familiar with him holding a position of power.

Wolfe Tone · 16-09-2011 6:46pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think the OP has gone to ground, but I'm gonna try again

Apologies Liam, I was out walking my dog.

Really Liam? Do you need to ask that question? What criminals did he try to get off? Would they be the same "criminals" you voted to release?

I'm pretty sure we have had similar conversations before, is there much point going down this road yet again?

Wolfe Tone · 16-09-2011 6:47pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

What would you rate his chances of winning?

He has a chance, but I wouldn't expect him to win, but you never know.

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 6:48pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

I assume you never talked to a Sinn Fein member canvassing?
Will you get rid of the toll? Yes
Will you sort out the car park outside my house? Yes
Will you tell the bond holders to fúck off? Yes
Will you lower taxes? Yes
Will you give me a pay rise? Yes
Will you drop coropration tax rates? Yes.
But that will mean big companies will leave ireland. "Errr, no then"
Will you send toireasa ferris around to give me a lapdance? Yes

I know politicians say anything to get a vote, but Sinn Fein take the biscuit.

Eh, it's The Presidential election.

Paparazzo · 16-09-2011 6:49pm

gambiaman wrote: »

Eh, it's The Presidential election.

REad the post I was replying to. McGuinness will say or do anything to get the vote.

blahfckingblah · 16-09-2011 6:49pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

I assume you never talked to a Sinn Fein member canvassing?
Will you get rid of the toll? Yes
Will you sort out the car park outside my house? Yes
Will you tell the bond holders to fúck off? Yes
Will you lower taxes? Yes
Will you give me a pay rise? Yes
Will you drop coropration tax rates? Yes.
But that will mean big companies will leave ireland. "Errr, no then"
Will you send toireasa ferris around to give me a lapdance? Yes

I know politicians say anything to get a vote, but Sinn Fein take the biscuit.

hey that works when you put any irish party in there.

HellsAngel · 16-09-2011 6:50pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

He has a chance, but I wouldn't expect him to win, but you never know.

I'm the same, Micheal D to win, Mitchell second. M McG to come in 4 or 5. Someone asked can he return to his job in the north. Yes he can -

" Last year Mr Robinson temporarily stood down from his role as first minister to address charges of financial irregularities.He was replaced by party colleague Arlene Foster and returned to his first minister position after six weeks."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0916/president.html

hotmail.com · 16-09-2011 6:51pm

gambiaman wrote: »

Eh, it's The Presidential election.

It won't stop McGuinness and the other candidates promising the sun, moon and stars during the campaign.

Dana was going to increase the number of rural Garda stations last time. One of the odder campaign pledges.

Sir Oxman · 16-09-2011 6:59pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

REad the post I was replying to. McGuinness will say or do anything to get the vote.

Well seeing as it was my post I did read it.
McGuinness is doing as all elected members of SF do - accept the avg industrial wage for themselves personally (though i don't agree with them using the rest for party coffers)

I have yet to hear anything from him or SF about how their candidate will do stuff they cannot possibly do when President.

KeithAFC · 16-09-2011 7:03pm

How does Martin Mcguinness help the peace process like some say when the vast majority in my community can't stand him or SF. It really hasn't done a lot on the ground. Two different peoples still hate each other.

HellsAngel · 16-09-2011 7:06pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

How does Martin Mcguinness help the peace process like some say when the vast majority in my community can't stand him or SF. It really hasn't done a lot on the ground. Two different peoples still hate each other.

Tell us something we don't know :rolleyes:

KeithAFC · 16-09-2011 7:12pm

HellsAngel wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

How does Martin Mcguinness help the peace process like some say when the vast majority in my community can't stand him or SF. It really hasn't done a lot on the ground. Two different peoples still hate each other.

Tell us something we don't know :rolleyes:

Well it is important to point out the reality. Two different communities hate each other. The peace process only keeps large amounts of guns off the street.

Frankie Lee · 16-09-2011 7:15pm

I think agent J118 will do a fantastic job for his country.

COYW · 16-09-2011 7:19pm

The list of candidates just gets poorer by the day. This entry does mean that Dragon's Den man has moved off the bottom of my rankings. Let's brace ourselves for the usual SF populist waffle and some new crackers over the course of the campaign.

We'll be hearing the SF "average industrial wage" con-job message, pretty sharpish. Looking back on Presidents past, the current list of candidates is an insult with McGuinness being the cherry on the icing on the top of the cake. Might as well add Bertie into the mix to top it all off.

blahfckingblah · 16-09-2011 7:21pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I think agent J118 will do a fantastic job for his country.

gotta love conspiracy theorys

niallers1 · 16-09-2011 7:22pm

At last, I was really despairing that a serious candidate would not run.
I wasn't going to vote for any of the candiates up until now.

I will be voting for McGuinness

And working for the average industrial wage.. How Roisin Murphy is that...

Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

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