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thyroid misery

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Comments

  • #552
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    Chessguy, every year I have a full blood count. It includes liver and kidney function, vitamin b12, vitamin d, vit b6, vit a, vit c, iron, selenium, manganese, potassium...and a lot more. Everything is always normal, except iron which is borderline but still normal. B12 is always looked at carefully, because my sister who is also on 100mg eltroxin has low b12. But mine has always been perfectly in range. Will definitely be asking about t3 next time, thank you for your links.


  • #553
    cltt97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭cltt97


    cyning wrote: »
    In other really awful news press release from Irish medicine board due to quality issues the manufacture of titre has been stopped:

    So anyone who takes it needs to start making alternative arrangements. It's the only thing that ever gave me any improvement I am gutted :(

    That's terrible, but thank god it was detected. My T3 tablets are liothyronine, so you can definitely get that instead. My pharmacy had to order them in for me though.


  • #554
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    @marymarcy,

    Long post get a cuppa :)



    looks like you did not have these tested B12, T4, T3 and FT3

    tpoab
    tgab
    TRAb
    they are quite important.. your Endo knows this, better to get all this done instead of waiting months ..and prolonging the diagnosis.


    Ezetrol this is controversial its a bit of a hot topic ..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-513729/The-NHS-spent-74m-new-heart-pill-makers-knew-didnt-work-How-COULD-happen.html

    maybe you can show it to your Doc, perhaps he has a good suggestion..

    your cortisol results look to be a bit off , but a few tests will show why , because if you have inflammation this result can be thrown off, also if one is stressed it can be raised too.
    So one cortisol test is not enough.



    CRP the test you had

    C-Reactive Protein [CRP]
    CRP is one of the proteins normally present in blood, but its level rises when there is inflammation in the body,

    Inflammation can be caused by infection or by other diseases. The normal level for CRP is less than 10mg/l.


    below 10 Normal but for most people, normal is below 3
    above 10 CRP rises higher the more inflammation there is


    CRP is a useful marker that all is not quite right, and a fall in CRP usually suggests that the problem is improving. It can change quite quickly, day by day in an acute illness. Commonly people with a very high CRP also have a fever.

    your doc may recommend the Hs Crp and Esr test ,too.




    How high are your Triglycerides and what is the Ref Lab range, it should be on the results


    Have you had a 10 hour fasting cholesterol level test done ? hmmm ...this is the test that doc usually recommends..... this will show a cholesterol profile.

    Here they measure the 3 basic main types of cholesterol
    Total cholesteol
    lDL
    HDL
    triglycerides



    This below is from a previous post I wrote.

    lets take a closer look.what is this cholesterol stuff is it really a baddy


    Ok cholesterol has 4 "basic units " for now.



    Firstly they are called total cholesterol when put together.

    triglycerides basically bad we want this down.

    To lower these stop sugar ,Basically all carbs affect this, Period as sugar directly raises this,
    bread and potatoes pasta, wheat,. are sugar yes they are sugar..
    only thing they have diff. shapes .But they are bad.


    Some carbs like healthy walnuts chessnuts, and veg are great.

    All juices are bad, fruit should only be eaten whole.


    Even the" innocent" brand are gently pasteurised what a joke pasteurised
    LMAO , means it it is flash superheated and kills ALL its nutrients, period.And you are then left with sugar, in a fancy carton.Innocent my A@@X"

    green veg is important for thyroid issues, only eat cooked goitrogenic foods circa 4 hours after medication.Watch out for products with soya, Avoid them.

    Hmm do your fish capsules contain soya just check..



    Hdl good cholesterol is raised with casual exercise ,Not hard exercise,to start with
    say a 30- 40 min walk a day.

    Now LDL
    this has good and bad in it it has small fluffy cholesterol which is bad

    it also has large fluffy cholesterol which is good,and helps us.

    so a doc see's high ldl as bad but that is incorrect as in Ireland the real cholesterol test is not readily available.They do not define the large or small.

    the small ldl cholesterol jamms in the vein walls and it stops and disrupts electrical signals basically, causing bad blockages, and ruptures.

    But why Simply because you ate too much sugar and hydrogenated fat and margarine ,

    Normal Organic butter and animal fat (unless deep fried) can never cause this affect,they actually help with good veins.if you have a particular gene apoe 4 combination, this fat can possibly raise small Bad ldl cholesterol.


    so how do we convert the small bad LDl to friendly large fluffy balls,

    hmm fish oil , they all say..

    well lets have a closer look.

    good fish oil lowers triglycerides , but but but it also >>>it raises bad lDL cholesterol.unless taken with say crushed garlic,(bet it does not say this on the Bottle
    ref
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9022529

    this fish oil I take is great no waste and nitrogen flushed so it does not go bad , bad fish oil like seven seas etc, sells well but does more harm then good,

    Keep fish oil in the fridge if you absolutely must buy capsules do a bite test if it tastes fishy or rancid throw it away,
    Good fish oil never tastes fishy.



    Aldi do good red salmon not the pink salmon thats not as good but okay too. , the salmon is tinned and is real wild salmon which is great.

    Say with a garlic dressing with corriander or parsley leaves , lots of important vitamin A in them

    Yes Important for the thyroid

    Special note on corriander it carries bad heavy toxic metals out of your body so if you have never had corriander leaves before , do not have it say more that 3 times a week, if you do you may experience tingle sensations this is the toxins leaving you body and passing through your blood,but may just feel weird,

    Its like say from eating a very bad diet and switching to an excellant diet , its a big change for you.

    remember

    vitamins A, D, E, and K are called fat-soluble vitamins best taken with some kind of fat,if you want the benefits.
    Only buy oils in dark glass bottles more about this another day.

    virgin cold olive oil dressing ,Ideal for this .Lets say mixed with organic creme fraiche.



    Salmon or mackeral none smoked should be eaten ideally 3 times a week.

    aVoid farmed salmon even when it says ORGANIC . THEY ARE FULL OF LICE ARE FED PINK DYES, google it if you want.

    the only real wild salmon in Ireland is tinned,

    Organic just means the salmon is farmed it is fed crap on a fish farm.

    The omega 3 in free range eggs helps reduce cholesterol

    but how because eggs are high in cholesterol ?

    it is the choline effect it carries bad cholesterol away, cook them softly in organic coconut oil.Keeps yokes soft.Eggs contain good cholesterol it goes bad if you deep fry and use margarine etc..

    Try to eat free range as much as possible it is important for people with Endocrine issues.
    Its to do with the natural omega 3.

    Grass fed lambs liver is good for this too.it clears bad cholesterol
    stop all margarine, and all marg mixes.
    Twica a month would be ideal.

    Most cholesterol is made in the body very few people are affected by cholesterol in food,unless they have a a particular gene apoe 4 combination.

    mothers milk is mainly cholesterol we need cholesterol,

    Our brains are full of good cholesterol.

    Special note LDL large bad cholesterol ones can raise too if the FT3 is low , as they share the same receptor.,

    When you have enought Ft3 it " it creates more LDL receptors so the bad LDl can be cleared , and then you bad cholesterol lowers ..Voila.

    your Endo know this , run it by him.:)




    goodluck
    chessguy


    Hi again.

    Lots to take in there.

    As you say, I can't see any sign of T4, T3, FT3 or B12 in the results I have, nor the tpoab, tgab or trab. However, these may have been done by the Endo, so I will try and get a copy of any results he has on Friday.

    Ezetrol is only recent, prior to that I was on Rosuvastatin. I'd be happy to come off it, however there is a history of heart issues in my dad's side of the family. The good and bad cholesterol seem fine now, its only the triglycerides that are out of range, hence the change to Ezetrol which the GP said will specifically target triglycerides.

    I've always had fasting cholesterol test done, and overall the figure has ranged from well over 7 (pre-medication) to 5 in December 2011. Triglycerides have been 2.79 (range 0.46 - 1.6), then 1.98, then 3.38. The range given for the last two figures is 0.5 to 1.7.

    My diet has lots of good points, lots of fruit and veg, mostly home cooked food, but have a big chocolate weakness. The fatigue and muscle weakness, and the fact that I recover so slowly after mental or physical "exertion" (minimal!!) means even a 30 minute walk would be a very big deal for me, and if I force the issue, it usually results in having to take the following morning off work. So its hard to work on the triglycerides. On a bad day, I can't go for a walk, or a look around the shops, or concentrate to read or watch television or talk to people, to be honest on a bad day a shower is a big deal, so unfortunately chocolate is one of the few "treats" or amusements that doesnt require energy to be expended!

    Cortisol has only been done once, so I will ask to have it done again.

    ESR has been tested twice, bothe times it was 10 (range 1-12).

    CRP was Behring Nephelometry CRP. I will ask about the Hs CRP.


    Thanks again for all the help, it is really helping me to focus on what needs to be done and what questions need to be asked.

    Mary


  • #555
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi again.

    Lots to take in there.

    As you say, I can't see any sign of T4, T3, FT3 or B12 in the results I have, nor the tpoab, tgab or trab. However, these may have been done by the Endo, so I will try and get a copy of any results he has on Friday.

    Ezetrol is only recent, prior to that I was on Rosuvastatin. I'd be happy to come off it, however there is a history of heart issues in my dad's side of the family. The good and bad cholesterol seem fine now, its only the triglycerides that are out of range, hence the change to Ezetrol which the GP said will specifically target triglycerides.

    I've always had fasting cholesterol test done, and overall the figure has ranged from well over 7 (pre-medication) to 5 in December 2011. Triglycerides have been 2.79 (range 0.46 - 1.6), then 1.98, then 3.38. The range given for the last two figures is 0.5 to 1.7.

    My diet has lots of good points, lots of fruit and veg, mostly home cooked food, but have a big chocolate weakness. The fatigue and muscle weakness, and the fact that I recover so slowly after mental or physical "exertion" (minimal!!) means even a 30 minute walk would be a very big deal for me, and if I force the issue, it usually results in having to take the following morning off work. So its hard to work on the triglycerides. On a bad day, I can't go for a walk, or a look around the shops, or concentrate to read or watch television or talk to people, to be honest on a bad day a shower is a big deal, so unfortunately chocolate is one of the few "treats" or amusements that doesnt require energy to be expended!

    Cortisol has only been done once, so I will ask to have it done again.

    ESR has been tested twice, both times it was 10 (range 1-12).

    CRP was Behring Nephelometry CRP. I will ask about the Hs CRP.


    Thanks again for all the help, it is really helping me to focus on what needs to be done and what questions need to be asked.

    Mary


    @marymarcy,


    Below published Medical article.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14695926


    This is a clip from the link

    "Administration of ubiquinone with statins, leading to its increase in plasma, lymphocytes and liver may cooperate in counteracting the adverse effects of statins, as already pointed out by various authors on the basis of human and animal studies.


    So a "basic translation all statins reduce co enzyme q10, so coenzyme q10 should be taken with statins, like Rosuvastatin

    Coenzyme is Very important for people on statins.

    Run this by your Doc,#

    co - enzyme q10 >> there are 2 types use Ubiquinol (best absorbed by the body) and not Ubiquinone.



    Chocolate and sugar drinks turn directly into triglycerides,no exceptions.

    Perhaps 90 % Lindt, my favourite
    is an option ? dark chocolate for its taste and its antioxidants. :)

    Or Green and blacks 100% chocolate drink , Tesco's and Dunne's carry it.

    A home exercise bike is a good form of low impact exercise,yes even while nibbling on Dark Chocolate.

    The medics need to work on what is actually causing the inflammation,
    as the ESR and CRP indicate inflammation,




    Goodluck
    chessguy


  • #556
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    cyning wrote: »
    Ya I ke t3&t4 (titre and eltroxin). I'm slightly underactive at the moment but that is purely because of pregnancy. it's very very difficult to control this in pregnancy!

    In other really awful news press release from Irish medicine board due to quality issues the manufacture of titre has been stopped: http://www.imb.ie/EN/Publications/Publications/TiTre-Tablets-20mcg-liothyronine--Important-Safety-Information-from-the-Irish-Medicines-Board-.aspx

    So anyone who takes it needs to start making alternative arrangements. It's the only thing that ever gave me any improvement I am gutted :(

    Yes TI_-Tre is unstable I agree, I noticed my temperatures were unstable.

    when I was i the chemist a couple of days ago , I requested Goldshield T3 as their T4 Eltroxin seems to be stable.
    And they ordered it in.

    I expect their T3 will be better formulated.

    Ask your Endo spacing your T3 out in perhaps 2-3 doses over the day may help fluctuations.

    Alterations in metabolism occur during pregnancy. all natures design :)

    Ideally T3 should be taken in 2 doses spread out otherwise it causes spikes.


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #557
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    @marymarcy,


    Below published Medical article.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14695926


    This is a clip from the link

    "Administration of ubiquinone with statins, leading to its increase in plasma, lymphocytes and liver may cooperate in counteracting the adverse effects of statins, as already pointed out by various authors on the basis of human and animal studies.


    So a "basic translation all statins reduce co enzyme q10, so coenzyme q10 should be taken with statins, like Rosuvastatin

    Coenzyme is Very important for people on statins.

    Run this by your Doc,#

    co - enzyme q10 >> there are 2 types use Ubiquinol (best absorbed by the body) and not Ubiquinone.



    Chocolate and sugar drinks turn directly into triglycerides,no exceptions.

    Perhaps 90 % Lindt, my favourite
    is an option ? dark chocolate for its taste and its antioxidants. :)

    Or Green and blacks 100% chocolate drink , Tesco's and Dunne's carry it.

    A home exercise bike is a good form of low impact exercise,yes even while nibbling on Dark Chocolate.

    The medics need to work on what is actually causing the inflammation,
    as the ESR and CRP indicate inflammation,




    Goodluck
    chessguy

    Thanks again, hopefully I will be able to express myself to the Endo and get somewhere this time. Do you mind me asking Chessguy who your own Endo or doctor is? If you could PM me that would be great, if not no problem.

    Mary


  • #558
    june12
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭june12


    since my last posting, I've been taking b12, magnesium citrate and a multivitamin but the pins and needles have got worse. I now have numbness in at least one area at any one time. Sometimes its a bit painful. I've been reading up on it over the last few days and I've been taking the wrong type or oral b12 to have any effect.

    I didn't want to go back to the my GP that gave me the lecture on upping my eltroxin so I went to see doctor that took my bloods the last time instead. I went armed with loads of information from this site and others ready for a battle but in the end it wasn't necessary. He seemed to be pretty well up to date on thyroid conditions. He reckons that about 20% of Irish women have a thyroid disorder and only about half of them have been diagnosed. He said its a complete disgrace that there is not more awareness.

    He was happy to prescribe b12 injections despite my levels being in the labs normal range (309) and he didn't have a problem with me increasing my eltroxin. It turns out I do have Hashimotos. He tested for it, I just didn't recognise it in the blood results.

    My ferritin and calcium levels are a little on the low side of normal. He's suggested that I work on my calcium levels first before addressing the ferritin levels because calcium and iron interfere with each other.

    I've also be reading about the links between Ha****motos and celiac disease and I asked him about that. I don't have any major symptoms but over the years I've cut back on gluten products (without realising it was gluten I was cutting back on) because I tended to feel a bit lighter without them. He said he'll test for it with the next set of bloods. I hope that comes back negative but it would explain the malabsorption issues and I'm vegetarian (which would also explain the b12 levels) so my diet is restricted enough.

    By the way, does anyone else have Geographic tongue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_tongue)? A dentist spotted that I had it about 10 years ago and said it was down to malnutrition. I mentioned it to a GP at the time but she completely dismissed it and I forgot all about it until recently. I've been reading up about it and they think there is a link with vitamin b deficiencies. It means my b12 deficiency probably goes back a long way.


  • #559
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    june12 wrote: »
    since my last posting, I've been taking b12, magnesium citrate and a multivitamin but the pins and needles have got worse. I now have numbness in at least one area at any one time. Sometimes its a bit painful. I've been reading up on it over the last few days and I've been taking the wrong type or oral b12 to have any effect.

    I didn't want to go back to the my GP that gave me the lecture on upping my eltroxin so I went to see doctor that took my bloods the last time instead. I went armed with loads of information from this site and others ready for a battle but in the end it wasn't necessary. He seemed to be pretty well up to date on thyroid conditions. He reckons that about 20% of Irish women have a thyroid disorder and only about half of them have been diagnosed. He said its a complete disgrace that there is not more awareness.

    He was happy to prescribe b12 injections despite my levels being in the labs normal range (309) and he didn't have a problem with me increasing my eltroxin. It turns out I do have Hashimotos. He tested for it, I just didn't recognise it in the blood results.

    My ferritin and calcium levels are a little on the low side of normal. He's suggested that I work on my calcium levels first before addressing the ferritin levels because calcium and iron interfere with each other.

    I've also be reading about the links between Ha****motos and celiac disease and I asked him about that. I don't have any major symptoms but over the years I've cut back on gluten products (without realising it was gluten I was cutting back on) because I tended to feel a bit lighter without them. He said he'll test for it with the next set of bloods. I hope that comes back negative but it would explain the malabsorption issues and I'm vegetarian (which would also explain the b12 levels) so my diet is restricted enough.

    By the way, does anyone else have Geographic tongue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_tongue)? A dentist spotted that I had it about 10 years ago and said it was down to malnutrition. I mentioned it to a GP at the time but she completely dismissed it and I forgot all about it until recently. I've been reading up about it and they think there is a link with vitamin b deficiencies. It means my b12 deficiency probably goes back a long way.


    Hi June, thats all very interesting information, hope you are feeling ok. THat doctor sounds like he is on the ball, do you mind me asking where you are based or if you would mind PMing me his details? I'm getting ready for a battle in the morning with current Endo so good to hear that you didnt have to battle this time anyway!

    Mary


  • #560
    june12
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭june12


    Hi Mary,

    I've sent you a pm.


  • #561
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    june12 wrote: »
    since my last posting, I've been taking b12, magnesium citrate and a multivitamin but the pins and needles have got worse. I now have numbness in at least one area at any one time. Sometimes its a bit painful. I've been reading up on it over the last few days and I've been taking the wrong type or oral b12 to have any effect.

    I didn't want to go back to the my GP that gave me the lecture on upping my eltroxin so I went to see doctor that took my bloods the last time instead. I went armed with loads of information from this site and others ready for a battle but in the end it wasn't necessary. He seemed to be pretty well up to date on thyroid conditions. He reckons that about 20% of Irish women have a thyroid disorder and only about half of them have been diagnosed. He said its a complete disgrace that there is not more awareness.

    He was happy to prescribe b12 injections despite my levels being in the labs normal range (309) and he didn't have a problem with me increasing my eltroxin. It turns out I do have Hashimotos. He tested for it, I just didn't recognise it in the blood results.

    My ferritin and calcium levels are a little on the low side of normal. He's suggested that I work on my calcium levels first before addressing the ferritin levels because calcium and iron interfere with each other.

    I've also be reading about the links between Ha****motos and celiac disease and I asked him about that. I don't have any major symptoms but over the years I've cut back on gluten products (without realising it was gluten I was cutting back on) because I tended to feel a bit lighter without them. He said he'll test for it with the next set of bloods. I hope that comes back negative but it would explain the malabsorption issues and I'm vegetarian (which would also explain the b12 levels) so my diet is restricted enough.

    By the way, does anyone else have Geographic tongue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_tongue)? A dentist spotted that I had it about 10 years ago and said it was down to malnutrition. I mentioned it to a GP at the time but she completely dismissed it and I forgot all about it until recently. I've been reading up about it and they think there is a link with vitamin b deficiencies. It means my b12 deficiency probably goes back a long way.



    @june12
    Lack of vit B12 over a longer periiod does look like a likely suspect of the Geo tounge.
    But you could check this comprehensive articel it's a long read.
    http://geographictongue.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GeographicTongue.pdf


    hmmmm.... vit B12
    here we go..............

    Why does vitamin B12 deficiency result in >>> anaemia?
    The Red blood cells are made in the bone marrow and circulate in the blood.
    Their life expectancy is circa 4 months.
    we know Our body needs iron, vitamin B12 and folic acid,
    to make more red blood cells. If there is a lack of >>>>one or more of these nutrients, anaemia can develop.
    So they all need to be brought up like your Doc suggests.


    Vitamin B12 is essential for the nervous system, which is why a deficiency can also cause inflammation of the nerves

    ESR and CRP are blood tests for inflamation may be useful ..... ask you Doc..

    Vit b12 absorbtion...Detailed.....
    Two steps are required for the body to absorb vitamin B12 from food.
    First, hydrochloric acid in the stomach separates vitamin B12 from the protein to which vitamin B12 is attached in food.
    After this, vitamin B12 combines with a protein made by the stomach called intrinsic factor and is absorbed by the body. Some people have pernicious anemia, a condition where they cannot make intrinsic factor.

    Now lets back track What can cause this type of anaemia? issues ???/

    >>>>Not eating enough foods that contain vitamin B12.

    A vegetarian or vegan diet can cause deficiency because vitamin B12 is only found in foods of animal origin, such as meat, fish, eggs and milk.

    Inability of the small intestine ( caused by >>>>>>Gluten issues perhaps ?? )to absorb vitamin B12.

    As a result, they have trouble absorbing vitamin B12 from all foods and dietary supplements.

    Dr Davis wrote the follwing it's worth a read.
    http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/glutenintolerance/fr/Wheat-Belly-By-Dr-William-Davis.htm

    Good idea avoiding the gluten , nice to see the doc gave you B12 injections.

    Might be a good idea to have vitamin D in the upper range too.

    goodluck
    chessguy


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  • #562
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    june12 wrote: »
    Hi Mary,

    I've sent you a pm.


    Thank you!


  • #563
    treecreeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭treecreeper


    treecreeper wrote: »
    i appreciate getting an understanding of how to read ones own bloods, not necessarily diagnostics here.
    i am deaf, very and have word discrimmination so when i try to piece together stuff written down it really does help.
    long tracts do tend to throw me now as i am so poorly, this way i can try to take bite by bite and more understanding.
    i am by no means stupid but need this type of input and really appreciate it.
    ok, here again to the questions asked.

    I will type verbatim what the folate and ferritin results say, cos i dont know how to read it...
    FOLATE
    sample type SERUM
    Cliical observations NO CLINICAL DETAILS
    FOL3:FOLATE 11.3 nmol/L 7.0-46.4
    FERRITIN
    skip sampe and clinical as the same
    FER:Ferritin 11.30 nmol 10.00-204.00

    Only see Free T4 no Free T3
    Vit B12 is always high as due to crohns disease i get this by injection and i have always been worried that its consistently high and all they say 'ah it doesnt matter, you cannot overdose on vit b12!' if so why have a value at all if it doesnt matter!
    here it is....760 pmol/L 139-651

    Total Protein is 66
    C-Reactive protein 66

    Ana 400
    tell me what hieroglyph is used for Iron? cannot find it, except in the local railway!
    thanks
    :)
    hi more bloods, this time my total protein is at 63 and my AST at 33. My fasting TSH reads as 3.39 i do have gall stones and take a lot of meds for other conditions anyone know what these values mean? thanks in anticipation


  • #564
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    treecreeper wrote: »
    hi more bloods, this time my total protein is at 63 and my AST at 33. My fasting TSH reads as 3.39 i do have gall stones and take a lot of meds for other conditions anyone know what these values mean? thanks in anticipation


    @treecreeper,

    iron symbol can be listed as say fe or ferritn it's in your post >> FER:Ferritin 11.30 nmol 10.00-204.00

    it looks quite low...I am sure they are working on this ??

    Folate is one of the b vitamins , it is vit B9



    High vit B12 is good, especially when C-Reactive protein is high , High C-Reactive protein indicates inflammation, yours is currently high.

    It can easily go up and down daily depending on the inflammation.

    Good to see your Doctors are on the ball :)

    This is actually with Crohn’s , they try to keep the inflammation down.

    I expect you are on anti inflammatory medication , and have been advised to stop smoking or cut it down as it aggregates your issue.


    B12 and folate are B vitamins that are necessary for normal red blood cell formation, tissue and cellular repair,. They are important indeed.

    A B12 and/or folate (vitamin B9) deficiency reflects a chronic shortage of one or both of these vitamins.

    Since the body stores 3 to 6 years worth of B12 and circa a 3 months' supply of folate in the liver,

    deficiencies and their associated symptoms can actually take months to years to manifest in adults.

    Thats why I mention vitamins and minerals and especially Vit B range and vit d on this forum.
    They need to be kept up, or the deficiency of these will be they come back and kick you in the A##

    Side note :Infants and children will show signs of deficiency more rapidly because they have not yet established extensive reserves.

    AST range is between 5 and 45 international units,

    many things can raise the AST levels I expect full liver panels will reveal more.


    Goodluck
    chessguy


  • #565
    june12
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭june12


    chessguy wrote: »
    @june12
    Lack of vit B12 over a longer periiod does look like a likely suspect of the Geo tounge.
    But you could check this comprehensive articel it's a long read.
    http://geographictongue.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GeographicTongue.pdf


    hmmmm.... vit B12
    here we go..............

    Why does vitamin B12 deficiency result in >>> anaemia?
    The Red blood cells are made in the bone marrow and circulate in the blood.
    Their life expectancy is circa 4 months.
    we know Our body needs iron, vitamin B12 and folic acid,
    to make more red blood cells. If there is a lack of >>>>one or more of these nutrients, anaemia can develop.
    So they all need to be brought up like your Doc suggests.


    Vitamin B12 is essential for the nervous system, which is why a deficiency can also cause inflammation of the nerves

    ESR and CRP are blood tests for inflamation may be useful ..... ask you Doc..

    Vit b12 absorbtion...Detailed.....
    Two steps are required for the body to absorb vitamin B12 from food.
    First, hydrochloric acid in the stomach separates vitamin B12 from the protein to which vitamin B12 is attached in food.
    After this, vitamin B12 combines with a protein made by the stomach called intrinsic factor and is absorbed by the body. Some people have pernicious anemia, a condition where they cannot make intrinsic factor.

    Now lets back track What can cause this type of anaemia? issues ???/

    >>>>Not eating enough foods that contain vitamin B12.

    A vegetarian or vegan diet can cause deficiency because vitamin B12 is only found in foods of animal origin, such as meat, fish, eggs and milk.

    Inability of the small intestine ( caused by >>>>>>Gluten issues perhaps ?? )to absorb vitamin B12.

    As a result, they have trouble absorbing vitamin B12 from all foods and dietary supplements.

    Dr Davis wrote the follwing it's worth a read.
    http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/glutenintolerance/fr/Wheat-Belly-By-Dr-William-Davis.htm

    Good idea avoiding the gluten , nice to see the doc gave you B12 injections.

    Might be a good idea to have vitamin D in the upper range too.

    goodluck
    chessguy

    Thanks chessguy! I will have a look at those sites.

    When I was diagnosed last year it all seemed very straight forward - take a pill, come back every couple of months for blood tests and dosage to be tweaked. Now I can't believe how much is affected by it and how complicated it all is.


  • #566
    dubbo
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭dubbo


    Hi everyone,I just wanted to post a quick update.I have been on levothyroxine for 3 weeks now and am starting to feel like myself again! I don't feel low anyone,I have more energy (still need a lot of sleep but not as debilitating tiredness now)and I have started driving again (I lost my confidence when I was so tired and brain fog,I didn't feel safe to drive ). Seeing the consultant in 6 weeks to review,fingers crossed its onwards and upwards. I would have just believed my gp and not pushed to see a consultant if it wasn't for people on this thread,thanks so much everyone,and hope you're all feeling well!


  • #567
    frenchmartini
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭frenchmartini


    ok, as an experiment to help argue my pathetic, unlistened to, symptomatic hypothyroid case, i've started tracking morning temps. using an in-ear thermo. before i get out of bed.

    For the past 7 days they have been:
    36.3
    36.1
    36.3
    36.5
    36.4
    36.2
    36.6

    any thoughts?

    am finding the cold unbearable at the moment :(


  • #568
    Supermensch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Supermensch


    I had been going to a Neurologist about what I had been describing as 'headaches'. I went off for an MRI scan and a blood test. Today the Neurologist had a look at the results of the blood test, and told me that I do indeed have Hypothyroidism. I'm now on a prescription of Levothyroxine.

    Very happy that it isn't anything more serious, and that it's been found now. Just wondering what experience people have regards school. I had gone off the the doctor for the 'headaches' because they had been affecting my ability to concentrate. The same as others have said in the thread, I'd be overcome with a foggyness. I'm just finished fifth year, and I found it very hard to pay proper attention during classes at times. I'd leave school for the day without being able to remember much of what I had learnt. I'm going into sixth year after the summer, and I'd like to know if anyone has any advice in respect to study and that.


  • #569
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    Hi all

    So to update, saw locum Endo on Friday. He says my symptoms are out of a book. He is not Irish, so either he means textbook, or I am imagining them after reading them!! But my bloods are fine....

    He wants to go back to the original blood test results that my diagnosis was based on, he hasn't seen them as they were done by the GP prior to my current one. So I suppose thats a good thing that he is going back to the start. But he isn't convinced its thyroid, and if not, suggested Post Viral Fatigue (possible) or depression (never felt less depressed and have suffered from it a little in the past, have none of the emotional symptoms at the moment, am quite happy if only my body would behave). He did at least do a B12 test and is sending me for a scan.

    Am afraid I may be fighting a losing battle with him, at least his predecessor was willing to let me try T3 at some point. I will wait and see what the results show, but I'm thinking I will have to look elswhere. So annoying!!!! Slightly disillusioned.

    Feel quite good yesterday and today, for no apparent reason, its all a mystery. I don't understand why some days are reasonable and others a washout. Is that a common experience for any of ye?

    Hope all are well anyway!

    Mary


  • #570
    june12
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭june12


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi all

    So to update, saw locum Endo on Friday. He says my symptoms are out of a book. He is not Irish, so either he means textbook, or I am imagining them after reading them!! But my bloods are fine....

    He wants to go back to the original blood test results that my diagnosis was based on, he hasn't seen them as they were done by the GP prior to my current one. So I suppose thats a good thing that he is going back to the start. But he isn't convinced its thyroid, and if not, suggested Post Viral Fatigue (possible) or depression (never felt less depressed and have suffered from it a little in the past, have none of the emotional symptoms at the moment, am quite happy if only my body would behave). He did at least do a B12 test and is sending me for a scan.

    Am afraid I may be fighting a losing battle with him, at least his predecessor was willing to let me try T3 at some point. I will wait and see what the results show, but I'm thinking I will have to look elswhere. So annoying!!!! Slightly disillusioned.

    Feel quite good yesterday and today, for no apparent reason, its all a mystery. I don't understand why some days are reasonable and others a washout. Is that a common experience for any of ye?

    Hope all are well anyway!

    Mary

    Are you on eltroxin now? I find it weird the way doctors are so ultra conservative when treating thyroid conditions but seem to hand out meds for depression like candy.

    Do you know what your tsh is and what it was when you were diagnosed? My recent results were well within normal range but I felt a lot worse than when I was first diagnosed. I know it was my thyroid though because the gland had swollen up again and it went back down after I increased my meds.

    When you get your b12 results, you should ask for the actual number. I'm new to this but I'm already finding that there is a huge difference between so called normal ranges and healthy ranges


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  • #571
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    marymarcy, I can identify with feeling good one day & rotten the next, that's something I have. I think you need to wait for the results of the B12 tests before you make any further decisions. Make sure to always ask for printouts of your bloods so you can see where in the range you are, doctors are inclined to fob us off with the "in normal range" line. The problem with taking T3 or T4 replacement before firm diagnosis is that you risk throwing yourself into a hyperthyroid state &, believe me, that's not a nice place to be. Don't accept the old "depression" diagnosis, you know how you feel. The sooner doctors learn that thyroid is not a cut and dried illness with specific symptoms common to all and stop treating by numbers the better. Meanwhile eating healthy food, avoiding soya based food & junk, drinking loads of water & exercising daily can make things more bearable.


  • #572
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi all

    So to update, saw locum Endo on Friday. He says my symptoms are out of a book. He is not Irish, so either he means textbook, or I am imagining them after reading them!! But my bloods are fine....

    He wants to go back to the original blood test results that my diagnosis was based on, he hasn't seen them as they were done by the GP prior to my current one. So I suppose thats a good thing that he is going back to the start. But he isn't convinced its thyroid, and if not, suggested Post Viral Fatigue (possible) or depression (never felt less depressed and have suffered from it a little in the past, have none of the emotional symptoms at the moment, am quite happy if only my body would behave). He did at least do a B12 test and is sending me for a scan.

    Am afraid I may be fighting a losing battle with him, at least his predecessor was willing to let me try T3 at some point. I will wait and see what the results show, but I'm thinking I will have to look elswhere. So annoying!!!! Slightly disillusioned.

    Feel quite good yesterday and today, for no apparent reason, its all a mystery. I don't understand why some days are reasonable and others a washout. Is that a common experience for any of ye?

    Hope all are well anyway!

    Mary

    marymarcy blood tests combined with symptoms speak volumes , so tests should be done , important keep all printouts.

    low vit b12 and low vit d alone can cause many issues , which one can feel straight away, and their long term effect if not fixed , will cause major concerns.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #573
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Supermensch wrote: »
    I had been going to a Neurologist about what I had been describing as 'headaches'. I went off for an MRI scan and a blood test. Today the Neurologist had a look at the results of the blood test, and told me that I do indeed have Hypothyroidism. I'm now on a prescription of Levothyroxine.

    Very happy that it isn't anything more serious, and that it's been found now. Just wondering what experience people have regards school. I had gone off the the doctor for the 'headaches' because they had been affecting my ability to concentrate. The same as others have said in the thread, I'd be overcome with a foggyness. I'm just finished fifth year, and I found it very hard to pay proper attention during classes at times. I'd leave school for the day without being able to remember much of what I had learnt. I'm going into sixth year after the summer, and I'd like to know if anyone has any advice in respect to study and that.

    @Supermensch , welcome get them to find out what kind of hypothyroidism it is,like feks hashimotos, they can do this with various tests but you will most likely need to see an endocrinologist .

    also avoid all soya products,
    only eat cooked goitrogenic veg , like broccoli,

    medication if so how long you been taking it ?

    do you feel any better with it ?

    Does any one else in your family have hypothyroidism ??


    Take medication , best taken at night when going to bed , do not eat after taking it just drink water , this way it is best absorbed,

    never wash down with juice/coffee , it can affect the medication , so it does not work well.


    when you get blood tests done always keep a copy , just in case you ever need to look back on them ,
    they will be happy to do a print out.

    good idea to have vitamin d and vitamin b12 checked these need to be in the optimal range , not just okay range

    .also these thyroid tests

    FT3, FT4, TSh,

    goodluck
    chessguy.


  • #574
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    marymarcy blood tests combined with symptoms speak volumes , so tests should be done , important keep all printouts.

    low vit b12 and low vit d alone can cause many issues , which one can feel straight away, and their long term effect if not fixed , will cause major concerns.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    goodluck
    chessguy

    Hi Chessguy, it will be interesting to see what the B12 result is.

    Can i just ask, how the hell do you get them to test T3 and reverse T3 when they refuse? I've tried firm requests, pleading, everything bar a meltdown - which will only add to his "mental" theory. He only grudgingly did the T4 and B12.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • #575
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    marymarcy, I can identify with feeling good one day & rotten the next, that's something I have. I think you need to wait for the results of the B12 tests before you make any further decisions. Make sure to always ask for printouts of your bloods so you can see where in the range you are, doctors are inclined to fob us off with the "in normal range" line. The problem with taking T3 or T4 replacement before firm diagnosis is that you risk throwing yourself into a hyperthyroid state &, believe me, that's not a nice place to be. Don't accept the old "depression" diagnosis, you know how you feel. The sooner doctors learn that thyroid is not a cut and dried illness with specific symptoms common to all and stop treating by numbers the better. Meanwhile eating healthy food, avoiding soya based food & junk, drinking loads of water & exercising daily can make things more bearable.

    Wyldwood thanks for all that. Glad to know i'm not the only one who doesnt know from one day to the next how she'll be - not that i'd wish that on anyone! Doing my best with nutrition and early to bed and not putting myself under physical pressure with rushing etc.

    Can I just ask, if i'm not really hypo, would the eltroxin for 3 years not have pushed me into hyper by now?

    Mary


  • #576
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I think you would certainly have had some nasty side effects from the Eltroxin by now if you were not hypo. Have you lost weight or feel like you have a constant adrenalin rush? I think it's time to put your case to another doctor who is prepared to listen to you and do the full range of tests including T3. Life is too short to spend it feeling constantly unwell.


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  • #577
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I think you would certainly have had some nasty side effects from the Eltroxin by now if you were not hypo. Have you lost weight or feel like you have a constant adrenalin rush? I think it's time to put your case to another doctor who is prepared to listen to you and do the full range of tests including T3. Life is too short to spend it feeling constantly unwell.

    No, i'm fatter than ever and just as sluggish! I went to see a nutritional doctor (not an MD) with a good reputation locally yesterday, and was very happy after the consultation, i'm going to stick with him for a while and see how i go. Couldnt face another Endo after last week! THankfully still feeling good today, thats 4 days in a row, yay!

    Thanks for all the advice, this thread is a great resource.

    Mary


  • #578
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    frenchmartini wrote: »
    ok, as an experiment to help argue my pathetic, unlistened to, symptomatic hypothyroid case, i've started tracking morning temps. using an in-ear thermo. before i get out of bed.

    For the past 7 days they have been:
    36.3
    36.1
    36.3
    36.5
    36.4
    36.2
    36.6

    any thoughts?

    am finding the cold unbearable at the moment :(
    @frenchmartini , looks reasonable, but you say you feel cold,

    has anyone ever told you you have cold feet..(poor circulation not a big issue).

    are you on a low carb diet...

    have you had the following tests done,?

    T3, FT3, T4, FT4, TSH, vit d vit b12

    double check the thermometer with a normal type old fashioned thermometer they are very accurate ,

    or check it when at the docs see if theirs matches yours.


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #579
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi Chessguy, it will be interesting to see what the B12 result is.

    Can i just ask, how the hell do you get them to test T3 and reverse T3 when they refuse? I've tried firm requests, pleading, everything bar a meltdown - which will only add to his "mental" theory. He only grudgingly did the T4 and B12.

    Thanks

    Mary

    check your PM.


  • #580
    LimerickBishop
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭LimerickBishop


    Hello,

    I'm in London, and have made another appointment with my GP, with the intention of being referred to an endocrinologist. I've read chessguy's excellent response to my earlier posts, so I want to prepare myself for the questions my GP may ask regarding my wish to be referred.

    Some days this week, my barometer (my calf muscles) have been aching a lot. Today they are fine, Thank God. I don't think I ought to go through life with this discomfort, so I will endeavour to get to the bottom of it.

    My lifestyle is healthy, yet I feel recently my clothes are getting tighter, which isn't a good sign, and my knees feel like they are creaking a bit more than they have. My sleep has been adequate, my diet balanced and avoiding foods which are detrimental, my job is enjoyable and isn't sedentary. In short, I expect to have a good quality of life, but I feel I'm being shortchanged lately in the last few weeks especially.

    I would like the opportunity of being prescribed T3, I'm mystified why many in the medical professions seem unwilling to countenance giving this.

    Thanks in advance for all responses.


  • #581
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    Hi all,

    I just got a copy of test results from my previous GP who diagnosed me, and my TSH at the start (August 2009) was 9.3, that was when i was diagnosed, but the two prior routine tests she did over the previous 18 months were 5.85 and 6.5 and nothing was done, i do remember her saying i was borderline.

    She also did Free T4 which I hadnt realised (14.4, 11, 11.4, 13.8 over a period of 18 months from Jan 2008, pre diagnosis, to Oct 2009). Corresponding TSH were 5.85, 6.6, 9.3 and 6.16)

    In mid 2010, B12 was 335 and Ferritin was 29, which both seem in the lower end to me? Ferritin was 24 last year, I am taking Galfer everyday, not sure when i started, but have always been inclined to have low iron, mine was 14.6 in March, but ever since menstruation started I would usually be lucky to be at 12 and have always supplemented on and off with iron. I dont really understand how all the different blood results operate. I also had quite low transferrin saturation in March, 16. 7 which is barely into the normal range.

    All insights appreciated!


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  • #582
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I wonder if anyone has ever had a generic levothyroxine dispensed instead of Eltroxin & felt unwell on it. I was given generic Goldshield Levo by the pharmacist & told it was identical to Eltroxin & when I read the ingredients they did seem to be the same. I started the generic on Monday & last night and today I feel distinctly unwell - jittery, dizzy, some palps- not severe but not nice. Could this be the generic? I had increased the dose of Eltroxin marginally (+ 25mcg one day a week) five weeks ago and was feeling ok. I'm now confused as to whether it's the generic or the increased dose is causing the problem. Anyone else have similar experience or is this just my whacky system again?


  • #583
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I wonder if anyone has ever had a generic levothyroxine dispensed instead of Eltroxin & felt unwell on it. I was given generic Goldshield Levo by the pharmacist & told it was identical to Eltroxin & when I read the ingredients they did seem to be the same. I started the generic on Monday & last night and today I feel distinctly unwell - jittery, dizzy, some palps- not severe but not nice. Could this be the generic? I had increased the dose of Eltroxin marginally (+ 25mcg one day a week) five weeks ago and was feeling ok. I'm now confused as to whether it's the generic or the increased dose is causing the problem. Anyone else have similar experience or is this just my whacky system again?

    @Wyldwood

    yes Goldshield Eltroxin , is the most stable product,

    some generics just do not work well, issues can be poor storage uneven mixture <<< this can be a BIG issue./, cheap fillers,

    They may have the same ingredients , but not all tomatoes are they same , they just bear the same name.

    Just 1 example a few weeks ago the t3 tri-tre was withdrawn and production stopped

    here that link
    http://www.imb.ie/EN/Publications/Pu...es-Board-.aspx

    Best to insist on Goldshield Eltroxin, tell the chemist the other disagrees with you.I am quite sure sure they will accomadate you.

    Now my T3
    and T4

    are both Goldshield products.

    See my previous posts >>too much T4 backfires as some of the T4 makes Reverse T3 this is a natural process,

    thats why T4 T3, FT4 and FT3 TSH all need to be checked.For a clear picture.

    you can spot it backfiring as the FT4 will be at almost the max of the range and FT3 will be at the low quarter end of the range , or even under it.

    I am sure your doc knows this , a gentle reminder may be called for :)

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #584
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I just got a copy of test results from my previous GP who diagnosed me, and my TSH at the start (August 2009) was 9.3, that was when i was diagnosed, but the two prior routine tests she did over the previous 18 months were 5.85 and 6.5 and nothing was done, i do remember her saying i was borderline.

    She also did Free T4 which I hadnt realised (14.4, 11, 11.4, 13.8 over a period of 18 months from Jan 2008, pre diagnosis, to Oct 2009). Corresponding TSH were 5.85, 6.6, 9.3 and 6.16)

    In mid 2010, B12 was 335 and Ferritin was 29, which both seem in the lower end to me? Ferritin was 24 last year, I am taking Galfer everyday, not sure when i started, but have always been inclined to have low iron, mine was 14.6 in March, but ever since menstruation started I would usually be lucky to be at 12 and have always supplemented on and off with iron. I dont really understand how all the different blood results operate. I also had quite low transferrin saturation in March, 16. 7 which is barely into the normal range.

    All insights appreciated!
    ========================

    @marymarcy vit b12 needs to be over 500,

    lab range for ferritin is 14 -200,,your Ferritin is also .>>>far too low

    also indicated by the transferin saturation.

    Are you vegetarian ?? Not sure if you mentioned this before..

    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and chicken livers ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these micronutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    check this with your doc, sure they know this and will agree :)

    Also sublingual B12 supplements are good,

    In one of my previous posts i have a list of supplements and manafacturers.of quality supplements.The products are from Iherb I have no affiliation.The vit B12 is on that list.

    best to buy organic,,grass fed meats.
    Then get bloods tested.


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #585
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    chessguy, don't think it's T4 backfiring as my FT3 is below range at 3.8 (3.9-6.7), my FT4 is at the lower end of "normal" 14 (12-22), my TSH is 5.5 (.4-4) which is about as low as I can go without getting hyper symptoms & endo is ok with that at present. I think my problem is the generic 25mcg Goldshield levo. I'm going to half some 50mcgs & try taking them for a few days to see if it improves things.


  • #586
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    chessguy, don't think it's T4 backfiring as my FT3 is below range at 3.8 (3.9-6.7), my FT4 is at the lower end of "normal" 14 (12-22), my TSH is 5.5 (.4-4) which is about as low as I can go without getting hyper symptoms & endo is ok with that at present. I think my problem is the generic 25mcg Goldshield levo. I'm going to half some 50mcgs & try taking them for a few days to see if it improves things.

    Wyldwood,

    might well be worth a try to take the same dose , as you do now but take the T4 just before going to bed so no food after it,ias t will be absorbed better,

    studies have shown this is the besttime to take Etroxin,

    referance

    thyrioxine is best taken at night time Not in the mornings.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17201800


    When your FT3 and FT4 are this low do you normally feel good.?


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #587
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    ========================

    @marymarcy vit b12 needs to be over 500,

    lab range for ferritin is 14 -200,,your Ferritin is also .>>>far too low

    also indicated by the transferin saturation.

    Are you vegetarian ?? Not sure if you mentioned this before..

    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and chicken livers ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these micronutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    check this with your doc, sure they know this and will agree :)

    Also sublingual B12 supplements are good,

    In one of my previous posts i have a list of supplements and manafacturers.of quality supplements.The products are from Iherb I have no affiliation.The vit B12 is on that list.

    best to buy organic,,grass fed meats.
    Then get bloods tested.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    Hi again.

    Why are my iron results so low when i take iron daily? I'm not a vegetarian but mainly eat chicken and fish. I will start to incorporate liver.

    I love soft eggs but always feel a bit icky after them so have taken to snacking on hard boiled, is this any good?

    As for B12, would injections be a good way to go?

    So apart altogether from thyroid, I have low Vitamin D, B12 and iron, at least the picture is coming together.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • #588
    cltt97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭cltt97


    Chicken and fish are not good sources of iron. Chicken will have approximately 0.5-1 mg iron per 100 g chicken, beef will have between 2-3 depending on the cut. Liver will be around 7 for beef and around 12 for calf and chicken - but too much liver isn't good either, as it harbours a lot of contaminants, too, and also is very high in Vitamin A, so I wouldn't make that a staple any time soon! A good alternative is black pudding, this has about 12 mg of iron per 100g (but has much less B12 than liver...).
    Eggs aren't great, unless you eat the raw egg yoke, that has about 6mg/100g, but a boiled egg only has about 2.
    Iron comes in many different forms and is much easier absorbed from an animal source than a plant source. Also iron absorption is better in the presence of Vitamin C, so try and eat something rich in Vitamin C with your black pudding :-) - for example raw peppers (capsicums) and a bit of fresh parsley....


  • #589
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    cltt97 wrote: »
    Chicken and fish are not good sources of iron. Chicken will have approximately 0.5-1 mg iron per 100 g chicken, beef will have between 2-3 depending on the cut. Liver will be around 7 for beef and around 12 for calf and chicken - but too much liver isn't good either, as it harbours a lot of contaminants, too, and also is very high in Vitamin A, so I wouldn't make that a staple any time soon! A good alternative is black pudding, this has about 12 mg of iron per 100g (but has much less B12 than liver...).
    Eggs aren't great, unless you eat the raw egg yoke, that has about 6mg/100g, but a boiled egg only has about 2.
    Iron comes in many different forms and is much easier absorbed from an animal source than a plant source. Also iron absorption is better in the presence of Vitamin C, so try and eat something rich in Vitamin C with your black pudding :-) - for example raw peppers (capsicums) and a bit of fresh parsley....

    Hi Cltt97

    I realise chicken and fish aren't a good source, I was just wondering why daily iron supplementation on top of a reasonable diet wasn't sufficient for me. And why my iron was 14 but ferritin and transferrin were on the low side. I get plenty of Vitamin C I think.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • #590
    cltt97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭cltt97


    Have you had a full blood count done? Is there any abnormalities in your cell numbers, size, volume, hematocrit etc? May be that you take in enough iron but the body can't utilise it....


  • #591
    cyning
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    Also might be worth looking at the brand of iron your taking: my ferritin levels are gone v low at the moment and I'm on Galfer: it's the only thing my GP will put me on for low ferritin levels: and take your iron with vitamin C to help absorbtion: might be worth a try? My ferritin is only 8 at the moment but then being 39 weeks pregnant might just have something to do with that :)

    I've got to say I had no issues with the quality of Ti-Tre: I had the most stable thyroid levels I had in years on it (up untill I got pregnant): it was the speed it happened wth that threw me: I need to keep taking it until babs gets here and hopefully the pharmacist can get enough to get me over the next few months untill levels even out post pregnancy too.

    My GP tests my T3 every blood test: getting the hospital to test it (not my endo I'm between two different hospitals at the moment) is fighting a losing battle: it drives my Endo mad.


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  • #592
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy]Hi again.

    Why are my iron results so low when i take iron daily? I'm not a vegetarian but mainly eat chicken and fish. I will start to incorporate liver.

    I love soft eggs but always feel a bit icky after them so have taken to snacking on hard boiled, is this any good?


    As for B12, would injections be a good way to go?

    So apart altogether from thyroid, I have low Vitamin D, B12 and iron, at least the picture is coming together.

    Thanks

    Mary[/QUOTE]


    @marymarcy,

    chicken and fish are good food sources but not very good if you want to build your iron up.

    I would not start with B 12 injections as you iron is low ,and you may well be low on other nutrients , so b12 injections could rock the boat ,

    best if VIT D , is raised with oil drops under the tongue,(best absorbed this way) and a good sunny holiday would help your vit D too.

    Reminds me Spain is calling need to book hotels for next 2 weeks.




    soft boiled or soft fried eggs is the best way at least till you get your levels "Normal" as I mentioned micro nutrients and choline are important,steps in building your nutrients up,eggs and liver are power houses.

    see my prev post for SUPPLEMENTS, B12 sub-lingual,(that post has an Iherb link in it) they taste nice under the tongue too. :) are well absorbed , as they do not go through the gut tract.

    You need to build your nutrients and micro nutrients as I mentioned with these foods.
    I gave these good thought before I suggested,them.

    Suggesting free range where possible.



    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and >>>> chicken livers<<<< ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And >>>free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these >>>> micro nutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    liver reference
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/394660-iron-with-chicken-livers-vs-beef-liver/


    >>>>Cltt97 liver is not full of toxins.


    Cltt97 please cite credible sources , for your "reasoning " especially if you are contradicting, ,
    and share your knowledge sources.

    Kindly look up medical articles or renowned sources, or researchers.And feel free to quote from them.

    Then we can air our opinions and we can advance in thought, & ideas.

    As we are both here to help where we can :)



    Read this, by one of the >>> cutting edge respected researchers and practitioners out there also a specialist on the Thyroid :)

    http://chriskresser.com/natures-most-potent-superfood

    Yes he agrees with liver :)




    cltt97 here clips from the link above for your convenience , which are interesting ..... he does NOT think eating liver is toxic and full of chemicals


    >>>>
    See here

    >>>A popular objection to eating liver is the >>belief<<< that the liver is a storage organ for toxins in the body.<<<< this is a myth <<<<<

    While it is true that one of the liver’s role is to neutralize toxins (such as drugs, chemical agents and poisons)

    ,>>> it does >>> NOT store these toxins. <<<< So its safe to eat especially from free range stocks.


    Toxins the body cannot eliminate are likely to accumulate in the body’s fatty tissues and nervous systems.

    On the other hand, the liver is a is a storage organ for many important nutrients (vitamins A, D, E, K, B12 and folic acid, and minerals such as copper and iron). These nutrients provide the body with some of the tools it needs to get >>> rid of toxins.. <<< see how it helps



    The chart below lists the micro nutrient content of apples, carrots, red meat and beef liver.

    Note that every nutrient in red meat except for vitamin C surpasses those in apples and carrots, and >>>>every nutrient—including vitamin C—in beef

    liver occurs in exceedingly higher levels in beef liver compared to apple and carrots. In general, organ meats are between 10 and 100 times higher in nutrients than corresponding muscle meats.

    that's why beef liver especially is >>>a super food , it has >>>more vit c than citrus fruits wow #, therefore it enables on to absorb the iron and the other nutrients,



    Cltt97 you suggest black pudding, ......



    HMMmmm... Lets have a closer look at black pudding ,can it be good ?

    Black pudding pigs blood and pork fat << I say This fat would most likely contain the waste products the liver would rid of like Kris mentioned above .. , and the waste would be in the blood too ,,,It woudl not help ones cholesterol either.

    My logical conclusion ..based on the above.
    blood of any animal should never be consumed. >>>So this is a definite NO NO.


    @marymarcy It could well be you do not absorb the iron well as you are lacking the minerals and micro nutrients as I mentioned they actually all work together to balance each other.

    But read on
    Coffee, Tea and Oregano

    Coffee and tea will decrease the absorption of iron when they are drunk with a meal that is rich in iron. According to the University of Notre Dame, coffee can decrease the absorption of iron by as much as 39 percent. Tea can decrease the absorption of iron by as much as 87 percent. Oregano is a spice that can decrease the absorption of iron in the body



    That is why I suggested such foods because of their vitamins , minerals and micro nutrients.They should be eaten together , no not all at once :)



    Stephan Guyenet another legend researcher

    Clt97 look what he says

    Vitamin D strongly protects again vitamin A toxicity and vice versa. ... A high intake of vitamins A and D also increases the need for vitamin K2.(K" is in eggs)


    So basically

    Another legend Jack kruse neurosurgeon agrees with this ,too

    Vitamin D strongly protects against vitamin A toxicity and vice versa also eggs are high in k2 and they protect against bad effects of vitamin A ,,

    Now this is if you eats tons of liver , all is okay if you eat the three small portions I mentioned, with organic eggs. etc


    So CLtt97 now do you see why I mentioned the above to be taken together to support each other , they actually support each other ,


    >>>> The Myth of Vitamin A Toxicity
    http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/vitamin-a-saga,



    section

    Unless you are an arctic explorer, it is virtually impossible to develop vitamin-A toxicity from food;



    ...I hope you see my comments in the good light they are portrayed in :)


    If I am incorrect please cite your sources if they are credible.And I will look into it.




    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #593
    frenchmartini
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭frenchmartini


    chessguy wrote: »
    @frenchmartini , looks reasonable, but you say you feel cold,

    has anyone ever told you you have cold feet..(poor circulation not a big issue).

    are you on a low carb diet...

    have you had the following tests done,?

    T3, FT3, T4, FT4, TSH, vit d vit b12

    double check the thermometer with a normal type old fashioned thermometer they are very accurate ,

    or check it when at the docs see if theirs matches yours.


    goodluck
    chessguy


    i've only ever had TSH (2.8) and T4 (14.9) tested, June 2012. I have only half my thyroid. They refuse to test beyond T4 and TSH because I am in normal ranges.

    Yes, very very cold feet and hands, all the time.

    I am going to the UK to a clinic to get the whole sweep of tests done including antibodies. I may be wasting my time and money but at least i'll know. i just need to know why i feel so ill all the time, and if it isn't my thyroid or my glands...

    thanks


  • #594
    cltt97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭cltt97


    I think it's time for me to say bye bye to this forum as I am really not in the humour to engage in a battle where I am supposed to justify everything I say. I don't make up things I say and have a very sound scientific background so I do know what I'm talking about. I am happy to help anyone who would like my help, so please send me a PM if you'd like my input.


  • #595
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    cltt97 wrote: »
    I think it's time for me to say bye bye to this forum as I am really not in the humour to engage in a battle where I am supposed to justify everything I say. I don't make up things I say and have a very sound scientific background so I do know what I'm talking about. I am happy to help anyone who would like my help, so please send me a PM if you'd like my input.


    @Cltt97, .

    In my post above I wrote


    "..I hope you see my comments in the good light they are portrayed in << I meant this I did not want you to take this negatively..


    If I am incorrect please cite your sources if they are credible.And I will look into it."


    There is no battle and you do not need to justify every thing you say,

    But when contradicting another like knowledgeable forum member , one should quote a "reliable source of reference so we all have a better understanding"

    we are all fallible and this is how we learn, from one another ,


    If I made an incorrect conclusion , I would be content in the fact that it was highlighted for me , so I could progress in a positive way.

    imho you contribute well to this forum ,and have helped many and I sincerely hope you continue to do so :)


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #596
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    frenchmartini wrote: »
    i've only ever had TSH (2.8) and T4 (14.9) tested, June 2012. I have only half my thyroid. They refuse to test beyond T4 and TSH because I am in normal ranges.

    Yes, very very cold feet and hands, all the time.

    I am going to the UK to a clinic to get the whole sweep of tests done including antibodies. I may be wasting my time and money but at least i'll know. i just need to know why i feel so ill all the time, and if it isn't my thyroid or my glands...

    thanks

    @frenchmartini,
    you are not wasting your time and money,
    and it appears you are taking a logical course of action,

    which clinic are you opting for ?

    please keep us posted , as it could well benefit others here,

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #597
    marymarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭marymarcy


    Cltt97
    I've had a full blood count done, i'll have a more indepth look at it later, I do recall the GP saying something along the lines of my red blood cells being a little on the large side, would that have an impact?

    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Chessguy
    I'm using D-pearl (pharmanord) as instructed by Endo to up Vit D. why soft eggs? are hard boiled not as good? As i said i find them easier to eat hard boiled, as they dont make me feel queasy, whereas soft do.

    Thanks all.


  • #598
    cyning
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Check with your doc first: I take my Eltroxin first thing and iron four hours later. Galfer certainly can make you constipated: I have no clue about taking it with a vitamin c tablet: how about with freshly squeezed orange juice maybe?


  • #599
    chessguy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Cltt97
    I've had a full blood count done, i'll have a more indepth look at it later, I do recall the GP saying something along the lines of my red blood cells being a little on the large side, would that have an impact?

    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Chessguy
    I'm using D-pearl (pharmanord) as instructed by Endo to up Vit D. why soft eggs? are hard boiled not as good? As i said i find them easier to eat hard boiled, as they dont make me feel queasy, whereas soft do.

    Thanks all.

    @marymarcy,
    I do not agree with raw eggs because of modern farming,
    but below a quote from Merola,

    If you choose not to eat your eggs raw, poached or soft-boiled is your next best option. Aside from microwaving, scrambling your eggs is one of the worst ways to cook them as it oxidizes the cholesterol in the egg yolk, which may in fact harm your health.

    so basically soft cooked eggs provide more nutrients

    the exception being scrambled eggs not s healthy way to cook.

    This may be of interest large red blood cells...
    http://www.ehow.com/about_5070758_causes-macrocytic-anemia.html

    An example case ..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15742609


    This emphasis how important our nutrients /vitamins are.

    It would be a good logical step to have a complete mineral and vitamin analysis,
    and bring these nutrients up to a solid level, under the auspice , of a good professional.




    goodluck
    chessguy


  • #600
    Theresa66
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Theresa66


    Hi cltt97, thanks for all the in-depth facts about how the thyroid system works, I've been on the net for the last two weeks and this has been the most informative thread I've found.

    I stopped growing from age 7 to 10. At ten, fat and lethargic, I was sent to Crumlin for tests. The endo there at the time, Dr. Cullen, said my thyroid gland wasn't working. I was put on Eltroxin and I've been holding steady on 100 mcg Eltroxin 40 years later (I'm 46 now).

    I've survived, but in hindsight I've always had low energy and anxiety and sometimes depression and I wish I'd been told all the mechanisms of this years ago, I might have realised how much more complex it actually is, and that taking T4 is not the only way. I do remember asking for Armour about ten years ago in St James's after I pretty much demanded a battery of tests for lupus/adrenals etc. as I was having problems with infertility, hair loss, anxiety, etc. But I was told they didn't prescribe it, can't remember the reason, and I just trusted what I was told.

    (I've since had a child, after getting a great increase in libido while on a very stone age diet with lots of veg and juice diets etc., not very sustainable tho over the course of a lifetime.)

    I haven't seen an endo in years, but I've been really feeling foggy and blah lately so I got bloods done at James's. GP receptionist read them out:

    TSH is 0.25 (0.27 - 4.20).
    T4 is 21 (12-22)
    T3 is 2.1 (1.3 - 3.1)

    My GP did ask for free T3 and free T4 (so I would have wondered if there was a mistake, but that you mentioned on these threads that James's don't test for free T3 or T4).

    I think he asked for TPO and TgAb as well, no results for those so maybe they don't test for them at James's either? (I actually didn't ask my GP to have me tested for anything other than thyroid levels, he put them on the blood form himself, it was only after that visit that I really got stuck into the online research.) So there are some good GPs out there.

    Anyway, I'm 'normal' but it doesn't solve my problems. I ordered Armour a few days ago online, cost 70 euro for three months supply. The site explains how to phase it in while phasing out synthetic T4.

    Maybe I shouldn't mess with what I have, but I really feel I need to just tackle this now for once and for all. I think I'll ask my GP to send me to Tallaght for free T3 and free T4 as well as antibodies, probably should do that before I start taking Armour and then do it again after to compare.

    I'm on med card and I don't want to wait around for a year to see a consultant. I think I'll just keep trying different things and ask my GP to have my bloods done regularly to check progress.

    For the record, I am gluten-intolerant (the coeliac antibody results take a little longer to come back so I don't have those yet, GP asked for them too) but I know I can't eat gluten anyway. Inflammatory reactions everywhere. I did get tested for it years ago but no one told me I had to have eaten some gluten to have the antibodies - had been off gluten for months at the time so of course it came back negative.

    I read a very interesting blog where someone who was diagnosed with Hashimoto's at 26 gradually, over about five years, eliminated her thyroid antibodies through diet and supplements. Her thyroid function is fine with no medication. In effect she cured herself of Hashimotos by eliminating anything that might provoke an immune response in her body while boosting her body's nutritional reserves to help her thyroid - she did this as soon as she was diagnosed so she saved her thyroid gland.

    http://hopeforhashimotosdisease.blogspot

    God knows what my poor old gland is like now after 40 years on T4 only. I'd like to have it scanned just out of curiosity.

    Anyway, just wanted to share my story and say thanks. So much useful info here - thanks to everyone, great thread.


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  • #601
    Theresa66
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Theresa66


    I forgot to say that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis about twenty years ago, when I lived in the US. They told me I had antibodies and explained what that meant. They explained that they could tell that my thyroid was actually working because it was producing hormones, the problem was they were being attacked by my immune system! That was a big surprise to me after 20 years on thyroxine, and thinking my thyroid gland didn't work, and all the while having my blood levels monitored regularly by James's endocrinology dept!

    So I was able to tell them in James's what was wrong with me when I moved back to Ireland, rather than the other way round!

    Some might say what difference does it make at the end of the day if the treatment is the same for hashimoto's as for a non-functioning or non-existent thyroid gland, and if the end result of treatment is the same = normal thyroid levels?

    I think it makes a world of difference because the immune system comes into play in a big way with hashimotos, and there are lots of things that can be done to help the immune system and prevent inflammation, through diet, supplements, exercise, etc. All this can help.

    Also, hormones have a knock-on effect on other body systems. Why isn't this addressed?

    What I don't understand is why the endos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account

    1. hormone levels: oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, adrenals (these are all affected by the thyroid and can have a huge effect on fertility, well-being, etc.)
    2. allergies: gluten, dairy (because the proteins in gluten and casein are very similar to those in thyroid hormones and if the body produces antibodies to gluten and/or casein, these antibodies can then mistakenly attack the body - so if the allergen is eliminated the attack might be eliminated)
    3. dietary deficiencies such as iron, b vitamins, selenium, copper, zinc (all needed for healthy thyroid functioning)
    4. family history (leaning towards graves, hashis, non-Hodgkins lymphoma etc - my mother has autoimmune myelitis and my aunt has non-Hodgkins lymphoma - there is a gene that predisposes people to autoimmune disease) - not in the interests of a cure necessarily but in the interests of science, and also it is known that one autoimmune disease can lead to another - they need to explore this link.
    5. mental state - is the patient anxious, depressed - and explain that this can be related to hormone disruption, and test for neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, gaba, etc. and compensate accordingly. Apparently the growth hormone is closely related to the production of the neurotransmitter responsible for the feel-good Gaba levels.

    No, they test your T4, your TSH, tell you you're normal and off you go. Not only that, the medicine they give you has only one of the 4 thyroid hormones (the natural dessicated thyroid from pig's glands has T4, T3, T2, T1). They tell you that's alright because T4 is converted into T3 by the body (but there is evidence that some people have great difficult with this conversion). They don't bother to tell you selenium helps a great deal with this. And they don't really know what T2 and T1 do, so better not to have them. Although I'm sure there's a reason why pigs have them.

    It just makes me so angry.


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