M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

boardsuser1 · 20-07-2017 7:13pm

marno21 wrote: »

Galway has 3 motorways now. Cork has 1. Sense?

Shameful as well that there's no plans to advance the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Youghal at present. None whatsoever.

.

It'll have to be. The M20 can't finish at Blackpool given that most cars on the M20 will have no business in Blackpool (airport, West Cork, Cobh, Ringaskiddy, UCC/CIT, CUH etc)

Kenny was bias to the south, Galway is in his own backyard

Imagine the amount of traffic going into blackpool as a result.

What is the cost of the Northern Ring Road?

marno21 · 20-07-2017 7:17pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Kenny was bias to the south, Galway is in his own backyard

Imagine the amount of traffic going into blackpool as a result.

What is the cost of the Northern Ring Road?

It depends.

The NRA were progressing two North Ring sections. The first from Killeens to the M8 near Glanmire. The second incorporating the N/S section of the Ballincollig bypass, up past Blarney onto the M20 near Killeens.

The eastern section was tying in with the M20, as it was lower cost. I personally think the western scheme would be more beneficial but I think going forward both are badly needed.

I don't have costings for either unfortunately.

JCX BXC · 20-07-2017 7:24pm

Athenry has 3 motorway, Galway still has one!

Pray that the M20 will have a more logical route than the M18

marno21 · 20-07-2017 7:28pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Athenry has 3 motorway, Galway still has one!

Pray that the M20 will have a more logical route than the M18

They may end in Athenry but from Galway you can now travel to Tuam, Dublin and Limerick/Patrickswell without leaving motorway/dual carraigeway.

A big difference to Cork:

Limerick: as far as Blarney
Tralee/Killarney: as far as Ovens
Waterford/Rosslare: as far as Carrigtwohill
Bandon/West Cork: no HQ road
Ringaskiddy: no HQ road

boardsuser1 · 20-07-2017 7:38pm

marno21 wrote: »

They may end in Athenry but from Galway you can now travel to Tuam, Dublin and Limerick/Patrickswell without leaving motorway/dual carraigeway.

A big difference to Cork:

Limerick: as far as Blarney
Tralee/Killarney: as far as Ovens
Waterford/Rosslare: as far as Carrigtwohill
Bandon/West Cork: no HQ road
Ringaskiddy: no HQ road

One of the worst national roads in the country after the N20

JCX BXC · 20-07-2017 8:28pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

One of the worst national roads in the country after the N20

After the N20?

I completely disagree it's truly an awful road, especially past Bandon.

The N20 is bad for being such an important route, however not worse than that route.

boardsuser1 · 20-07-2017 8:32pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

After the N20?

I completely disagree it's truly an awful road, especially past Bandon.

The N20 is bad for being such an important route, however not worse than that route.

The bad bends (can't recall the name) coming towards Buttevant from the Mallow side are as bad as the bends outside Bandon.

The N71 needs serious upgrades also.

feargale · 20-07-2017 9:07pm

Cork -Limerick should be designated the B1 i.e. the country's foremost boreen. It defies logic that this road, linking the state's second and third cities, had had to stand in the queue behind Galway-Tuam etc.,

marno21 · 20-07-2017 9:18pm

feargale wrote: »

Cork -Limerick should be designated the B1 i.e. the country's foremost boreen. It defies logic that this road, linking the state's second and third cities, had had to stand in the queue behind Galway-Tuam etc.,

Most people won't have an issue with Gort-Tuam being upgraded at the minute, given it was our most advanced big ticket scheme and went to tender in 2008. It may not do as good a job as it possibly could have given routing etc but it was still a scheme that had to be done.

A lot of people will question why there isn't the €12m being made available to progress this scheme for the next 3 years meanwhile there is a bottomless pit of cash for schemes such as the N5 through Roscommon which carries 4,500 cars a day and the Listowel bypass.

boardsuser1 · 20-07-2017 9:21pm

marno21 wrote: »

Most people won't have an issue with Gort-Tuam being upgraded at the minute, given it was our most advanced big ticket scheme and went to tender in 2008. It may not do as good a job as it possibly could have given routing etc but it was still a scheme that had to be done.

A lot of people will question why there isn't the €12m being made available to progress this scheme for the next 3 years meanwhile there is a bottomless pit of cash for schemes such as the N5 through Roscommon which carries 4,500 cars a day and the Listowel bypass.

Naughten and Healy-Rae influenced them?

marno21 · 20-07-2017 9:25pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Naughten and Healy-Rae influenced them?

Well it was actually Enda/Ring and Deenihan.

Which begs the question, why didn't Noonan/Coveney/O'Donovan/Stanton/Murphy/Neville support the key infrastructure project to open up growth for their (6!!) constituencies?

Kevwoody · 20-07-2017 9:30pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Naughten and Healy-Rae influenced them?

Being a frequent user of all roads in the southwest, I believe that the Tralee bypass was a massive waste of money, it's probably one of the quietest dual carriageways in the entire country, and Tralee still seems as congested as ever.

If the Listowel bypass gets done before the M20, Adare, or any other project it will be an absolute disgrace.

rounders · 20-07-2017 9:38pm

Also another issue with that chamber report is the time saving. They say currently Cork to Patrickswell takes 1 hour. Coming from someone that lives in Blarney, I can't get from here to Patrickswell in one hour. Takes normally 1 hour 20 ish depending what your stuck behind. That would make the time savings 35 mins which makes the road improvement even more significant

boardsuser1 · 20-07-2017 9:41pm

Kevwoody wrote: »

Being a frequent user of all roads in the southwest, I believe that the Tralee bypass was a massive waste of money, it's probably one of the quietest dual carriageways in the entire country, and Tralee still seems as congested as ever.

If the Listowel bypass gets done before the M20, Adare, or any other project it will be an absolute disgrace.

Bang on there.

road_high · 20-07-2017 11:11pm

Kevwoody wrote: »

Being a frequent user of all roads in the southwest, I believe that the Tralee bypass was a massive waste of money, it's probably one of the quietest dual carriageways in the entire country, and Tralee still seems as congested as ever.

If the Listowel bypass gets done before the M20, Adare, or any other project it will be an absolute disgrace.

Been on it a few times in parts but is it that big a waste? Couple of points, I'd wager a lot of the traffic in Tralee is just local and thus a bypass hasn't made a big difference.
And, most of the through traffic there is, to Dingle N86, still has to negotiate part of the town rather than a full bypass.

JCX BXC · 20-07-2017 11:26pm

The listowel bypass, I have to laugh everytime I hear this as a realistic suggestion! What, will they have a motorway right to the tarbert ferry now too?!

road_high · 20-07-2017 11:32pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

The listowel bypass, I have to laugh everytime I hear this as a realistic suggestion! What, will they have a motorway right to the tarbert ferry now too?!

Ah it's needed alright, just not before so many other busier schemes and routes when funds are so limited.

marno21 · 20-07-2017 11:33pm

road_high wrote: »

Ah it's needed alright, just not before so many other busier schemes and routes when funds are so limited.

Yes, it's required going forward. But at a time when projects such as the M20 are suspended due to the lack of available funding for planning its a bit rich that the Listowel bypass is getting full planning funding.

grogi · 21-07-2017 10:23am

marno21 wrote: »

Yes, it's required going forward. But at a time when projects such as the M20 are suspended due to the lack of available funding for planning its a bit rich that the Listowel bypass is getting full planning funding.

You only need to ask who is lobbying for it and what they are giving back for this road being pushed forward...

spacetweek · 23-07-2017 8:37pm

Is the Listowel bypass really going to cost that much though.

road_high · 23-07-2017 8:55pm

Terrain wouldn't be the easiest I'd imagine, got to cross the river.

grogi · 23-07-2017 9:25pm

road_high wrote: »

Terrain wouldn't be the easiest I'd imagine, got to cross the river.

OMG... A bridge...

Water John · 23-07-2017 9:43pm

That's what my OH says about some one with issues. Build a bridge and cross it.
I'm sure Danny could build one.

Kevwoody · 23-07-2017 9:53pm

grogi wrote: »

OMG... A bridge...

Yeah and a bridge costs a hell of a lot of money!
There are a lot more congested towns crying out for a bypass before Listowel, but sure like everything in that area, Healy-Rae Ltd will be pushing for it to line their own pockets.

grogi · 23-07-2017 10:12pm

Kevwoody wrote: »

Yeah and a bridge costs a hell of a lot of money!

Let's not exaggerate. This 300m dual carriageway bridge costed €40m (but some time ago...

)

There are a lot more congested towns crying out for a bypass before Listowel,

I agree with that.

But saying that a road is difficult because there is a bridge to build is as ridiculous as complaining that chicken has bones... When you build roads, you will cross rivers and valleys. You will have to go around the hills or drill through them. Land will need to be purchased etc. THAT IS PART OF LIFE.

This actually reminds me of some road works in Mahon, Cork. Papers called this 'major road improvement project' when it was just adding a single lane to existing road. Let's get some perspective...

It that is the perception, than building a motorway junction must be an engineering feast of the decade while two tram lines are the pride of the capitol...

but sure like everything in that area, Healy-Rae Ltd will be pushing for it to line their own pockets.

Corruption is completely different story

road_high · 24-07-2017 11:07am

grogi wrote: »

OMG... A bridge...

Well depending on the topography and soil, they aren't cheap- and the river Feale is heading into an estuary by Listowel stage.

Isambard · 24-07-2017 2:33pm

rounders wrote: »

Also another issue with that chamber report is the time saving. They say currently Cork to Patrickswell takes 1 hour. Coming from someone that lives in Blarney, I can't get from here to Patrickswell in one hour. Takes normally 1 hour 20 ish depending what your stuck behind. That would make the time savings 35 mins which makes the road improvement even more significant

Kanturk to Patrickswell can sometimes take an hour....lot shorter than Cork City to P'well

boardsuser1 · 27-07-2017 4:56pm

Is this too good to be true?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-to-limerick-motorway-on-governments-radar-799730.html

Water John · 27-07-2017 5:00pm

I think Leo is clever enough and knows the Govn't needs a flagship project in Munster.

grogi · 27-07-2017 5:06pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is this too good to be true?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-to-limerick-motorway-on-governments-radar-799730.html

They just want to give the money to someone with the PPP scheme, that's all...

boardsuser1 · 27-07-2017 5:37pm

grogi wrote: »

They just want to give the money to someone with the PPP scheme, that's all...

How many tolls could they put on that road though.

grogi · 27-07-2017 5:45pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

How many tolls could they put on that road though.

It's not really about, they can do without putting any.

It is about paying someone to build a motorway and they paying them for the traffic going through.

marno21 · 28-07-2017 12:41am

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is this too good to be true?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-to-limerick-motorway-on-governments-radar-799730.html

I don't believe so. I think it's becoming very realistic now.

Enda: "Cork got its motorway to Dublin. Its amazing the expectations the people of Cork have when the economy recovers. There is no money for a motorway to Limerick".

Leo: Repeated claims that infrastructure, including the M20, is a priority to him. Repeated being a key word here. Has yet to mention any issues with the cost tag of the project, or Metro, or the A5.

Water John wrote: »

I think Leo is clever enough and knows the Govn't needs a flagship project in Munster.

Especially given the Luas, Metro, motorways in Galway/Wexford and the general poor state of roads in Cork, Kerry and Limerick.

grogi wrote: »

They just want to give the money to someone with the PPP scheme, that's all...

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

How many tolls could they put on that road though.

Tolling this would be a waste of time. Its too big to finance through tolls and the traffic volumes at the start wouldn't support a toll.

I would hope the Department of Finance would have learned from the M3/Limerick Tunnel/Waterford bypass fiascos to bury this tolling idea. It works for Drogheda, Enfield, even the M50, but not here.

The two M11 projects, N7, M17/M18, and N25 New Ross all got through as PPPs with no tolling. No reason why this can't.

MayoSalmon · 28-07-2017 9:22am

marno21 wrote: »

Tolling this would be a waste of time. Its too big to finance through tolls and the traffic volumes at the start wouldn't support a toll.

I would hope the Department of Finance would have learned from the M3/Limerick Tunnel/Waterford bypass fiascos to bury this tolling idea. It works for Drogheda, Enfield, even the M50, but not here.

The two M11 projects, N7, M17/M18, and N25 New Ross all got through as PPPs with no tolling. No reason why this can't.

If this isn't tolled, driving from Tuam to Cork (217km) how many tolls will you have to pay, just the 1?

marno21 · 28-07-2017 9:42am

MayoSalmon wrote: »

If this isn't tolled, driving from Tuam to Cork (217km) how many tolls will you have to pay, just the 1?

Yes, just the Limerick tunnel

boardsuser1 · 28-07-2017 9:53am

marno21 wrote: »

Yes, just the Limerick tunnel

Drove through that tunnel twice,definitely seems shorter than the JLT here in Cork.

Once with 53 passengers, cost €3.30

An artic was €6.60 if i remember correctly.

Whilst i know the few is the same on the M8 is the reduced price for coaches to encourage people onto a bus hence the cheaper rate.

Reputable Rog · 28-07-2017 10:00am

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Drove through that tunnel twice,definitely seems shorter than the JLT here in Cork.

Nope its 65 metres longer than the JLT.

boardsuser1 · 28-07-2017 10:02am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Drove through that tunnel twice,definitely seems shorter than the JLT here in Cork.

Nope its 65 metres longer than the JLT.

Jasus, i didn't think it was.

Mc Love · 28-07-2017 10:26am

I would have thought JLT was longer too, maybe it's not as steep as the JLT which gives the impression its shorter

marno21 · 28-07-2017 10:52am

JLT is 620m, Limerick Tunnel is 675m

Perhaps the JLT feels longer because most of the time you are in a slow moving queue, and you can't overtake so are stuck behind 60km/h cars, added to the fact there's a roundabout at one end , whilst it carries around 3-4x the volume of the Limerick Tunnel

bear1 · 28-07-2017 10:58am

Ridiculous that you can't pay by card at the Limerick toll though.

grogi · 28-07-2017 11:00am

bear1 wrote: »

Ridiculous that you can't pay by card at the Limerick toll though.

True. Contactless is perfect for such application...

grogi · 28-07-2017 11:36am

Deedsie wrote: »

You can't overtake in either and rightly so. Speed limit in Limerick is 80 km/h

You can, at least in JLT. You just can't change lanes.

grogi · 28-07-2017 11:46am

Deedsie wrote: »

Do you hop over the car in front or how do you achieve that?

One lane vision of some people does not stop to surprise me.
If a car on left lane is going slower than the one in right one, at some stage the car in the right lane overtakes the one in left lane...

A lot of people get fined for overtaking like that when overtaking is not allowed.

Cookiemunster · 28-07-2017 12:17pm

Deedsie wrote: »

You can't overtake in either and rightly so. Speed limit in Limerick is 80 km/h

Incorrect. Overtaking is only banned for vehicles with 3 or more axels in the Limerick Tunnel. http://www.limericktunnel.com/media/31489/tunnelsafetybrochure.pdf

Reputable Rog · 28-07-2017 6:34pm

Mc Love wrote: »

I would have thought JLT was longer too, maybe it's not as steep as the JLT which gives the impression its shorter

Nope your just looking at it with Confederate flag tinted glasses.

Isambard · 28-07-2017 6:37pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Do you hop over the car in front or how do you achieve that?

There should be no overtaking in that tunnel. I was in Cork last week and as always an Audi driver decided to change lanes multiple times in the tunnel overtaking people. Imagine the disruption had he crashed which he could easily have. Gowl

It's just a road with a roof on, no reason for not overtaking in it, or not changing lanes for that matter, and whilst I'm at it, no need to have lights in it, it would be no darker than most country roads and also no need to put on lights as it is lit!

Sam Russell · 28-07-2017 7:13pm

Mod: can we drop the tunnel vision - with or without lights. M20 please.

mdmix · 29-07-2017 10:11am

Water John wrote: »

I think Leo is clever enough and knows the Govn't needs a flagship project in Munster.

i think leo has his own interests in mind. he is promising roads all over Ireland and metro north because he sees an election coming. if FG win, then thats the last we will hear about the m20 from him until the next election cycle. this is less version of the "5 point plan"

marno21 · 29-07-2017 11:00am

mdmix wrote: »

i think leo has his own interests in mind. he is promising roads all over Ireland and metro north because he sees an election coming. if FG win, then thats the last we will hear about the m20 from him until the next election cycle. this is less version of the "5 point plan"

He hasn't promised roads all over Ireland, his main 3 promises are Metro North, M20 and the A5, which should start before the end of 2017.

He's made a few comments about "upgrading regional roads" but that's likely to appease the "Dublin is getting all the money" brigade.

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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