Elementary [CBS - US] [ Spoilers ]

07-10-2012 12:09pm

Another crime-of-the-week story, but it was excellently done. I can see it playing out that over the next few weeks it will keep like that, to get the audience hooked in, before throwing us a story arc. Hopefully Moriarty will make an appearance in some form.

Mr E · 07-10-2012 12:23pm

Yep, since Watson only has to be a companion for 6 weeks, something major has to happen at the 6 week point to make her stick around for longer.

07-10-2012 12:55pm

I just did some reading in to Sherlock's drug habits and it seems that Holmes did frequently partake in substances.

Holmes occasionally uses addictive drugs, especially when lacking stimulating cases. He believes the use of cocaine stimulates his brain when it is not in use. He is a habitual user of cocaine, which he injects in a seven-per-cent solution using a special syringe that he keeps in a leather case. Holmes is also an occasional user of morphine but expressed strong disapproval on visiting an opium den. These drugs were legal in late 19th-century England. Both Watson and Holmes are serial tobacco users, including cigarettes, cigars, and pipes. Holmes is an expert at identifying tobacco-ash residues, having penned a monograph on the subject.

Dr. Watson strongly disapproves of his friend's cocaine habit, describing it as the detective's "only vice" and expressing concern over its possible effect on Holmes's mental health and superior intellect.[19][20] In later stories, Watson claims to have "weaned" Holmes off drugs. Even so, according to his doctor friend, Holmes remains an addict whose habit is "not dead, but merely sleeping".[21]

From Wikipedia.

I'll have to re-watch the two episodes again, but was it said if something happened in London, to explain his going across the Atlantic?

Richard Dower · 07-10-2012 1:36pm

Show is playing out EXACTLY as expected, that said....ep. 2 was strong with a couple of good twists. Poor Jennifer Ferrin...The Cape, lol.

I can see how the *series* will play out, following the Monk model...Sherlock leaves London under mysterious/tragic circumstances. Over the series (8 seasons and 200 episodes) Watson will uncover the truth and peel away at Sherlocks layers.

Crime case-of-the-week mixed with some season long stroy arcs...notably at the beginning and end of each episode. Moriarty gets introduced....he teases Sherlock all series long until the final showdown in episode 199.....

Ishould be writing for tv!....it's 100% proceadural...with a twist, i'm not saying it's bad but it COULD be much more!, hell i'd like it more if they followed the UK style....the sleuthing and deduction style of the UK show is tremendous!

I just find Miller flat....though i did like his joke about the rubber sex mask in the closet + burning the violin....eh, how is that still working after he burned it?

My issue is i see WAY too much of Monk/House/Lie To Me/Castle/The Mentalist and Bones and sundry other US proceadurals....with a twist.

The sexual tension between Holmes and Watson has already started, this i hate you stay outta my business woman! malarky has been done to death, Watson already trying to figure out Sherlock to be closer to him, living in his house....walking around in undies.

How before Sherlock starts porkin some random chick and Watson disaproves ergo jealous. Seen it all before people.......

Mr E · 07-10-2012 1:50pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

burning the violin....eh, how is that still working after he burned it?

Different violin. The one at the end was in a case.

Richard Dower wrote: »

My issue is i see WAY too much of Monk/House/Lie To Me/Castle/The Mentalist and Bones and sundry other US procedurals....with a twist.

Nothing wrong with that, when done well. And it is done well in Elementary.

Just bring in the story arc soon, please. It needs that hook to move the story forward.

ejmaztec · 07-10-2012 2:49pm

I don't see a problem with the show or the chemistry, and have never bothered my arse watching Castle, Monk, The Mentalist, or even Lie to me, none of which appealed to me.

07-10-2012 2:55pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Show is playing out EXACTLY as expected, that said....ep. 2 was strong with a couple of good twists. Poor Jennifer Ferrin...The Cape, lol.

I can see how the *series* will play out, following the Monk model...Sherlock leaves London under mysterious/tragic circumstances. Over the series (8 seasons and 200 episodes) Watson will uncover the truth and peel away at Sherlocks layers.

Crime case-of-the-week mixed with some season long stroy arcs...notably at the beginning and end of each episode. Moriarty gets introduced....he teases Sherlock all series long until the final showdown in episode 199.....

Ishould be writing for tv!....it's 100% proceadural...with a twist, i'm not saying it's bad but it COULD be much more!, hell i'd like it more if they followed the UK style....the sleuthing and deduction style of the UK show is tremendous!

I just find Miller flat....though i did like his joke about the rubber sex mask in the closet + burning the violin....eh, how is that still working after he burned it?

My issue is i see WAY too much of Monk/House/Lie To Me/Castle/The Mentalist and Bones and sundry other US proceadurals....with a twist.

The sexual tension between Holmes and Watson has already started, this i hate you stay outta my business woman! malarky has been done to death, Watson already trying to figure out Sherlock to be closer to him, living in his house....walking around in undies.

How before Sherlock starts porkin some random chick and Watson disaproves ergo jealous. Seen it all before people.......

When I was watching the second episode, I kept in mind the whole "sexual tension" thing and there really wasn't any really. One happens to be a man and one happens to be a woman. You could argue the point that there was far more tension in BBC's Sherlock than there is in this one. If anything Elementary will likely go the route of them having a strong friendship.

don ramo · 07-10-2012 3:02pm

watson and holmes always had a bromance going on, it wasnt sexual, like here, it just so happens watson is a woman, and watson is living with holmes cause that how the sponsor program works richard,

i do wonder what their gonna do in episode 5-6 when watsons time is up alright, will holmes do something that will end up requiring her to stick around for a year or more, should be interesting to see how that works out,

squonk · 08-10-2012 10:40am

God Richard you're far too cynical. I've seen a fair bit of Monk, all of House and I'm still up for Elementary. Maximus from Gladiator sums up my attitude to judging most shows... "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??". Some shows leave me feeling very under entertained. Some leave me felling highly entertained. Elementary so far has left me feeling pretty well entertained. It's starting to move up my 'must watch' list which is a good thing. The show needs to grow into itself a bit but, for episode two so far, it's off to a fine start. I'm hoping it continues in the same vein.

ceegee · 09-10-2012 1:44am

Just after seeing skys ad for episode one, manage to give two twists away,gobsh*tes

12-10-2012 7:13pm

Just after watching episode 2 and it's damn good television. Yes it's a run of the mill procedural but there's a hint of wit and intelligence to it all that allows the show to stand out. Having only seen series 1 of BBC's Sherlock, I'd go so far as to say that Elementary is the superior show.

The BBC show is enjoyable but only episode 1 was truly fantastic. Episode 2 would have worked as a great 45 minute piece but at double that it ran out of steam pretty quickly and the less said about the Penelope Pitttsop ending the better. Episode 3 similarly had some good ideas but the jumps in logic and Holmes deductions felt unrealistic. Elementary on the other hand just works. Holmes comes across very well and his deduction are nowhere near as contrived or unbelievable. There's also a humanity to Holmes that's missing in the UK version. Properly sounds like I hate the UK version but I don't, I even bought it on Blu-Ray and am planning to rewatch season 1 and then onto season 2 in the coming weeks.

As for Richard's post, put it this way the day you start writing for TV is the day I stop watching. If you want to look at the show from an academic viewpoint then you could argue that it ticks off many of the expectations that viewers will have. Holmes's past is teased and I'm sure that we will find out that a particular case drove him deeper into his addiction, perhaps Moriarity will be involved. And yes I'm sure that the overall season long arc will be slotted in at the end of every other episode but that's how theses shows work. Elementary is not trying to be Breaking Bad or the Wire, it's an easy to watch 42 minute procedural that viewers can dip in and out of. You can easily miss one or two episodes and then pick it back up and not have to do much catching up.

I'm sure that the writers will play up the relationship between Holmes and Watson but so far I think that most of the sexual tension exists only in the heads of those people who think every show with a male and female lead has to have the prospect of sex at the heart of their relationship. There's chemistry between the leads but it's not some unfulfilled sexual tension. It's simply two people who are forced together getting to know one another. Look at anyone who is forced to work in close proximity with a co-worker and a similar tension will develop.

Richard also compared the show to Monk, House, Lie To Me, Castle,The Mentalist and Bones. Considering that most detective shows are based to a degree on Holmes it's not exactly surprising to find similarities. Hell I could name a hundred other shows that are similar to Elementary, you take your pick from every 42 minute crime procedural made in the past 30 years.The big difference for me between House, Lie to Me and the Mentalist is that Holmes is a likable character, the main characters in the other three are pompous, smarmy bastards who are just inherently unlikeable.

12-10-2012 7:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just after watching episode 2 and it's damn good television. Yes it's run of the mill procedural but there's a hint of wit and intelligence to it that allows it to stand out. Having only seen series 1 of BBC's Sherlock I'd go so far as to say that Elementary is the superior show.

While I agree with Season 1, the second season of Sherlock puts it miles above Elementary. Definitely recommend you to watch it.

Basq · 12-10-2012 8:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Having only seen series 1 of BBC's Sherlock, I'd go so far as to say that Elementary is the superior show.

As much as I like Elementary, I can't agree at all there!

While the second episode of Sherlock was merely average, the 1st episode was some of the most engaging and impressive pilots I've seen in years. And the second season is amazing!

While Elementary is good, it's a different kettle of fish to Sherlock. Comparisons are probably a little unfair but it'll take a long time for Elementary to surpass any expectations set by Sherlock.

12-10-2012 8:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with Season 1, the second season of Sherlock puts it miles above Elementary. Definitely recommend you to watch it.

It's been sitting to my left on a shelf for about a year at this stage, really must make the time to sit down and watch it. I think having watched all the Basil Rathbone films last year put me off jumping back into the BBC show, especially considering that Rathbone is as far as I'm concerned the definitive Holmes.

Basq wrote: »

As much as I like Elementary, I can't agree at all there!

While the second episode of Sherlock was merely average, the 1st episode was some of the most engaging and impressive pilots I've seen in years. And the second season is amazing!

While Elementary is good, it's a different kettle of fish to Sherlock. Comparisons are probably a little unfair but it'll take a long time for Elementary to surpass any expectations set by Sherlock.

Think I may rewatch series 1 of the BBC show tonight. I don't really like comparing the two shows as beyond the character names they really are quite different. Sadly though no matter how different the two shows are people are going to compare them to one another. If I was looking for a show to compare Sherlock with it would be Luther and in the case of Elementary I'd say that it was a darker, more serious version of Common Law.

Richard Dower · 20-10-2012 1:05pm

Very solid third ep. - you could say Sherlock sorta met his Moriarty...that kid outsmarted Sherlock!, some decent deductive stuff this week also + a couple of good twists. It's definately far above your average proceadural.

TThey do a decent job not making each story predictable and it plays out more complicated then you'd expect. A funny scene with Sherlock and watson doing squats....lol!, they bounce off each other quite well and have some lighthearted moments.

In that regard you could recall Castle, seems Sherlock is starting to respect Watson more and rely on her more to be part of his sleuthing.
I'll stick with it for now but they do need to introduce a big bad or a more serialised approach.

20-10-2012 6:11pm

Damn fine episode of television. Show is head and shoulders above every other procedural on atm and I really cannot understand the constant calls from people thar they need to introduce a big baddie. The show has absolutely no need for one. The episodic nature of the show works in its favor, it allows us to see Holmes doing what he does best and much like The Finder the much bigger story is slowing making its self known.

This is not a show like the generic Castle or House or The Mentalist. It's a far more intelligent and well rounded show with a central character who is genuinely likeable. Holmes comes across as humane and likeable and there's never a sense that he lords his intellect above others as House did.

Really hope to see Elementary go the distance. It's easily my favourite of the new shows and has buckets of potential. Hopefully when they introduce Moriarity it wont take away from the strength of the week to week cases.

Have to hand it to Lucy Liu, never liked her but she's really impressing me here and there's a nice chemistry between her and Miller. Really think that if the show keeps up this level of quality that I'll still happily be watching it in 4 years time

Clareman · 20-10-2012 9:56pm

He'll always be Zero Cool to me, not Sherlock

JP Liz V1 · 23-10-2012 9:18pm

CBS picks up full season of Elementary which starts tonight on Sky Living

Richard Dower · 24-10-2012 10:00pm

Watson's mum cast: http://tvline.com/2012/10/24/elementary-season-1-cast-freda-foh-shen-watson-mom/

Be interesting to see how she reacts to Sherlock.

27-10-2012 12:47am

I really liked the most recent episode - it had some pretty great character development, especially Sherlock's confession of being an ex-drug addict at the end.

don ramo · 27-10-2012 1:02am

i love how sherlock is affecting watsons life so much that she cant go on a date without "deducing" everything they say

:D

Richard Dower · 27-10-2012 5:38pm

The latest was OK, not as good as the others as the main story was rather predictable and no good twists. It did serve to further the bonding between Sherlock and Watson, we are slowly learning more about Sherlock, his inner workings, his backstory and the evolving relationship between the deductive duo.

Nice to see the language Sherlock uses is English....slapper is a very English term for a slut/whore etc.

2.5/5....i'm enjoying the show more then i expected, despite my harsh assement of the show before it premiered. A good example of not judging a book by its cover....

Richard Dower · 27-10-2012 5:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really liked the most recent episode - it had some pretty great character development, especially Sherlock's confession of being an ex-drug addict at the end.

He almost seemed childlike and small during that confession...he was definately embarrased/ashamed as he said, he was almost in tears...

Of course the detective as he said wasnt stupid and knew all along.

In this regard the Sherlock character has more humanity then say the complete ASS that was House, least Sherlock can be redeemed and changed, House enjoyed being a tool and hurting people :mad:

27-10-2012 6:57pm

One of the things I like most is the different portrayals of the character and his quirks; in BBC's Sherlock, he relishes in his detective and analytic abilities, but in this, Sherlock wishes he didn't have them, it seems.

01-11-2012 10:17pm

Another damn fine episode. Really is the best new show of the year and one which I can see lasting. The mystery of the week was pretty basic but it was well written and there was a few nice surprises along the way. The manner in which the show is slowly adding to Holmes's back story is a masterclass in subtlety. We are slowly getting to know Holmes as a person through how the world around him reacts and evolves. The conversation at the end between him and Watson was brilliantly handled and in those brief minutes we learnt more about what torments Holmes than many shows could manage over a full episode

02-11-2012 7:11pm

Latest episode is the weakest to date but still far better than any other procedural on atm. Holmes was in his element and it was nice to see Watson in her element, she's really growing as a character and Liu is impressing the hell out of me. Really growing to like her and it shows that given the right role an actor can really come into their own.

groovie · 05-11-2012 2:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Another damn fine episode. Really is the best new show of the year and one which I can see lasting. The mystery of the week was pretty basic but it was well written and there was a few nice surprises along the way. The manner in which the show is slowly adding to Holmes's back story is a masterclass in subtlety. We are slowly getting to know Holmes as a person through how the world around him reacts and evolves. The conversation at the end between him and Watson was brilliantly handled and in those brief minutes we learnt more about what torments Holmes than many shows could manage over a full episode

Well said. I feel that the real mystery of this season is not the trite (IMHO) whodunnits that are solved every week, but the origin of Holmes being in NY, and that's for Watson to solve. Has lots of potential, in fairness.

Monotype · 05-11-2012 6:16pm

If Sherlock was really from England, he shouldn't have been writing his dates on the board with the month first.

sham69 · 06-11-2012 2:25pm

really loving this.
Its not very often I stick to watching TV shows but I can't get enough of this one.
Lucy Liu is getting better and better and its hard not to like lee miller.
Hoping this stays around for a while.
The last series I was this excited about was the U.S prime suspect and we all know what happened to that...

don ramo · 06-11-2012 7:51pm

sham69 wrote: »

really loving this.
Its not very often I stick to watching TV shows but I can't get enough of this one.
Lucy Liu is getting better and better and its hard not to like lee miller.
Hoping this stays around for a while.
The last series I was this excited about was the U.S prime suspect and we all know what happened to that...

easily the strongest new show this season, its not ground breaking tv by any means, but what its doing its doing well, liu and miller play well off each other, i said it from episode 1 that this would be a lock for renewal, and i stand by that, its doing exactly what person of interest done last season, start off with a strong core of about 10 million viewers a week, and grow from there,

Clareman · 06-11-2012 8:00pm

I'm enjoying the show as well, I'm liking the fact they aren't rushing to introduce a Moriarty straight away, concentrating more on establishing the characters.

He's still Zero Cool to me though and he married Acid Burn so I can't like him, ever.

09-11-2012 11:51pm

Another impressive episode with a smart and well thought out mystery of the week and a lot more about Holmes past. Really is TV at it's finest and it opens up a lot of avenues for future episodes.

Dozen Wicked Words · 10-11-2012 12:06am

Watching on Sky, so maybe a bit behind, but the 2nd episode was like something out of Murder She Wrote shouting out a whole address of supposed witness/further beneficiary is straight out of the Jessica Fletcher playbook. REALLY POOR. 3rd episode with child kidnapper also very formulaic and supposed twist is so obviously telegraphed from the minute the kidnapped boy was initially offered anonymity from prosecution.

Its not that the series so far isn't watchable, its just very, very obvious. If you took the names out of the stories, it would be decidedly average, run of the mill, stuff to watch. Holmes and Watson's cache will probably give it a longer run than it deserves. But as I said initially, being a bit behind, maybe it all gets a lot better.

10-11-2012 1:17am

Am I the only one that really hoped the name at the end was going to be Moriarty?

10-11-2012 1:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

Am I the only one that really hoped the name at the end was going to be Moriarty?

I assumed it was going to be his but I'm guessing that Moriarity may have played a part in what ever happened to the girl.

10-11-2012 3:54pm

D'oh! Don't know how I only got this now, but it refers to "Irene Adler", who was in A Scandal in Bohemia.

10-11-2012 9:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

D'oh! Don't know how I only got this now, but it refers to "Irene Adler", who was in A Scandal in Bohemia.

There have been a few nods to the books but that one was the most obvious so far, going to be really interesting to see where it goes from here.

Richard Dower · 11-11-2012 12:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

There have been a few nods to the books but that one was the most obvious so far, going to be really interesting to see where it goes from here.

any other nods you can point out...

11-11-2012 1:11am

Richard Dower wrote: »

any other nods you can point out...

You've got the obvious ones, the names of the characters. Captain Gregson was a minor character in the novels. There's also the fact that he keeps bees and some lines of dialogue that reference cases and events in the books.

Richard Dower · 11-11-2012 1:16am

^ cheers, i have to catch up and watch the last two eps. before my usual episode reviews, but overall i'm impressed by the series....so is the cast/crew of Sherlock it seems.

Richard Dower · 15-11-2012 1:00pm

Clareman wrote: »

I'm enjoying the show as well, I'm liking the fact they aren't rushing to introduce a Moriarty straight away

Wrong it seems:

Episode 1.11 of Elementary will be called "M.".

M," is a sadistic serial killer from Sherlock's past, who appears to have resurfaced in New York...

^ = :rolleyes:

don ramo · 15-11-2012 1:08pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Wrong it seems:
Episode 1.11 of Elementary will be called "M.".

M," is a sadistic serial killer from Sherlock's past, who appears to have resurfaced in New York...

^ = :rolleyes:

why the rolleys, its a sherlock holmes show, thats a logical course to take, did you expect them to save it for season 4 or something,

Richard Dower · 15-11-2012 1:13pm

don ramo wrote: »

why the rolleys, its a sherlock holmes show, thats a logical course to take, did you expect them to save it for season 4 or something,

Yeah...its WAY to soon to be playing this card imo, it might be introduced cynically to boost ratings. I fear another Red John or Miniature Killer arc.

don ramo · 15-11-2012 1:16pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Yeah...its WAY to soon to be playing this card imo, it might be introduced cynically to boost ratings. I fear another Red John or Miniature Killer arc.

its gonna be a flashback episode of some sort, some aspect of a case will bring up some memories that will lead to a reveal of some kind,

this show will play out just like castle, tip away at the back story every other episode but save the big reveals for mid season, and season finales,

15-11-2012 1:20pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Yeah...its WAY to soon to be playing this card imo, it might be introduced cynically to boost ratings. I fear another Red John or Miniature Killer arc.

It really isn't. Moriarity is integral to understanding Holmes as a character and there's a lot that can be done with him as a character. Sure it may end up playing out over the course of years but he has sobmuch potential and I've always loved the interaction between him and Holmes.

Jax Teller · 15-11-2012 1:25pm

Why don't you wait and see how it plays out before criticising the show .

Sometime I think you just give out over shows for the sake it .

don ramo · 16-11-2012 12:37am

2 more episode ordered for this season, bringing it up to 24 episodes, one of these is apparently to account for the post superbowl time-slot elementary got for being the strongest new show this season

:D

http://www.deadline.com/2012/11/cbs-expands-elementary-order-by-two-episodes-trims-vegas-by-one/

Clareman · 16-11-2012 10:08pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Wrong it seems:

^ = :rolleyes:

Episode 11 is half way through season 1, in today's rating centric TV making that's an awful long time, I guess that'll be the mid-season cliff hanger

expectationlost · 18-11-2012 4:46am

hmm always have to go with the flow of him figuring the case out with obscure clues delievered in monologues but if moriaty doesn't turn out to be Irish this show imho will be better then UK Sherlock.

18-11-2012 12:56pm

Another fine episode with an interesting mystery, great performances and some more insight into Holmes. I'm absolutely loving the show and know that if the quality remains the same ill be picking up the Blu-Ray.

Im assuming that this weeks episode was shot some time after the previous six as Miller looks a lot healthier and fuller.

Elementary [CBS - US] [** Spoilers **]

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Elementary [CBS - US] [ Spoilers ]