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If a total beginner came to you and said...

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    #32
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Zillah wrote: »
    No, but he did say:
    "If a total beginner came to you and said 'I want to seriously reduce my body-fat'" which would imply his was high. He also thanked my post so I was probably right.

    My bodyfat is currently approximately 22%.

    What does bulking mean exactly?

    Am I right in understanding that carb-loading before and after a workout is only necessary if you have low bodyfat?


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    #33
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    whirlpool wrote: »
    My bodyfat is currently approximately 22%.

    What does bulking mean exactly?

    Am I right in understanding that carb-loading before and after a workout is only necessary if you have low bodyfat?

    There is all sort of conflicting info out there. I firmly beleive what you eat all week is more important than an hour before or after a workout. Its just a ploy to sell shakes. If you feel overtired get a few extra clean carbs on board dont eat a pizza like.
    Your body will tell you what it needs carbwise.


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    #34
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,071 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Zillah wrote: »
    No, but he did say:
    "If a total beginner came to you and said 'I want to seriously reduce my body-fat'" which would imply his was high. He also thanked my post so I was probably right.
    I thought we were talking about a hypothetical beginner, to generate discussion. Rather than the OP specifically, maybe not.


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    #35
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Mellor wrote: »
    I thought we were talking about a hypothetical beginner, to generate discussion. Rather than the OP specifically, maybe not.

    Yeah as much discussion as possible including why different approaches apply to the different variables, it makes it more understandable e.g. why someone with high body fat would do one thing while someone with low body fat would do another.

    Understanding the reasons and the differences definitely makes me more pro active. I'd imagine it's the same for most people. I'm personally unlikely to jump into something without being 99% certain it's the productive way to go about it. (That's probably a bit neurotic of me though.)


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    #36
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    whirlpool wrote: »
    Understanding the reasons and the differences definitely makes me more pro active. I'd imagine it's the same for most people. I'm personally unlikely to jump into something without being 99% certain it's the productive way to go about it. (That's probably a bit neurotic of me though.)

    This can lead to paralysis by analysis. You need to take the jump and just refine it as you go.


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    #37
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    whirlpool wrote: »
    My bodyfat is currently approximately 22%.

    What does bulking mean exactly?

    Am I right in understanding that carb-loading before and after a workout is only necessary if you have low bodyfat?

    The idea of bulking goes like this:

    To build muscle you need to do two things. One, is to work the muscles hard, to tell your body that they need to be stronger. Two, is to provide a significant calorie/protein excess so that your body has the resources to grow those muscles. If you do all of 1 but fail to do 2 then your progress will be less than ideal. It is a horrible feeling to think that you are not gaining as much muscle as you earned in the gym because you didn't eat enough of the right foods.

    So bulking usually refers to the idea of eating far more than you need during the first phase (over the course of months) and thereby gaining as much muscle as you can. The downside is that you will increase your bodyfat during the process too, because it is impossible to land on exactly 100% of you target calorie intake, and they'd rather go to 120% and gain fat, than go 80% and miss out on some muscle gain.

    So the second phase is 'cutting', where you adjust your diet and exercise plan to get rid of the fat you gained while keeping the muscle.

    But ignore all that.

    When you're starting out the important thing is to cut the crap out of your diet, eat a balanced amount of good foods, and lift lots of heavy things. You'll gain muscle, lose fat and generally feel and look better.

    After that you can worry about more specific goals. Keep it simple. You'll learn more as you go and develop a more refined approach to your workout process, but no need to rush.

    Eat healthy, lift things. Anything beyond that is kind of superfluous when you're starting out. Don't worry about 'carb loading' or anything so elaborate. Eat good meals, maybe a snack or two, your body will handle itself.


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    #38
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Zillah wrote: »
    The idea of bulking goes like this:

    To build muscle you need to do two things. One, is to work the muscles hard, to tell your body that they need to be stronger. Two, is to provide a significant calorie/protein excess so that your body has the resources to grow those muscles. If you do all of 1 but fail to do 2 then your progress will be less than ideal. It is a horrible feeling to think that you are not gaining as much muscle as you earned in the gym because you didn't eat enough of the right foods.

    So bulking usually refers to the idea of eating far more than you need during the first phase (over the course of months) and thereby gaining as much muscle as you can. The downside is that you will increase your bodyfat during the process too, because it is impossible to land on exactly 100% of you target calorie intake, and they'd rather go to 120% and gain fat, than go 80% and miss out on some muscle gain.

    So the second phase is 'cutting', where you adjust your diet and exercise plan to get rid of the fat you gained while keeping the muscle.

    But ignore all that.

    When you're starting out the important thing is to cut the crap out of your diet, eat a balanced amount of good foods, and lift lots of heavy things. You'll gain muscle, lose fat and generally feel and look better.

    After that you can worry about more specific goals. Keep it simple. You'll learn more as you go and develop a more refined approach to your workout process, but no need to rush.

    Eat healthy, lift things. Anything beyond that is kind of superfluous when you're starting out. Don't worry about 'carb loading' or anything so elaborate. Eat good meals, maybe a snack or two, your body will handle itself.

    Excellent! Thanks!


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    #39
    dremo
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭dremo


    I would say, Keep calm and juice up! That's easiest and fastest way, and If he/she want long term gains, just keep using juice! Before somebody goes all Butthurt, there is no medical prove that juice are bad for you, ****ing society and its taboos.


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    #40
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    dremo wrote: »
    I would say, Keep calm and juice up! That's easiest and fastest way, and If he/she want long term gains, just keep using juice! Before somebody goes all Butthurt, there is no medical prove that juice are bad for you, ****ing society and its taboos.

    Recommending a total beginner to juice up? Ye good luck with that. Where's Thor and his ban hammer!


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    #41
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    whirlpool wrote: »
    My bodyfat is currently approximately 22%.

    What does bulking mean exactly?
    In order to put on muscle mass, you need to have a calorific surplus. In other words, you need to gain weight to gain muscle. Now, if you get it right, at 22% bf you can probably get away with some recomposition. I.e. you can probably lose fat while putting on muscle mass. Once you hit about 15% however, you won't lose fat if you continue to bulk. But... if you do cut and you aren't carrying much muscle, you're going to a) look anorexic, and b) struggle to get very low anyway. Because you're calorie intake will need to be very precise, and very low.

    My advice: Bulk up until you're about 10-15lbs above your target weight, then cut.


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    #42
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    dremo wrote: »
    I would say, Keep calm and juice up! That's easiest and fastest way, and If he/she want long term gains, just keep using juice! Before somebody goes all Butthurt, there is no medical prove that juice are bad for you, ****ing society and its taboos.

    Juicing as a noob is a fcuking stupid idea. I mean unbelieveably brain-dead retarded. If someone feels the need to do so, at least wait until you've hit your genetic potential.


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    #43
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    davyjose wrote: »
    In order to put on muscle mass, you need to have a calorific surplus. In other words, you need to gain weight to gain muscle. Now, if you get it right, at 22% bf you can probably get away with some recomposition. I.e. you can probably lose fat while putting on muscle mass. Once you hit about 15% however, you won't lose fat if you continue to bulk. But... if you do cut and you aren't carrying much muscle, you're going to a) look anorexic, and b) struggle to get very low anyway. Because you're calorie intake will need to be very precise, and very low.

    My advice: Bulk up until you're about 10-15lbs above your target weight, then cut.

    I really wouldn't even think about bulk vs cut until body fat was into the middle teens anyway. Personally I'm aiming for about 8%. At 22% you really just need to get started working out and your composition will naturally shift towards more muscle and less fat. Fine-tuning can come later (say, after three months of working on basic).

    Even at 15% I'd say you could continue recomposition if you were at a small calorie deficit.


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    #44
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Posters here are obsessed about bulking.

    Clean bulk v dirty bulk.

    Who gives a damn?
    Just get out there and train, and watch the calories.


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    #45
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Posters here are obsessed about bulking.

    Clean bulk v dirty bulk.

    Who gives a damn?
    Just get out there and train, and watch the calories.

    Just get out there and train is the right attitude, yeah, but I pretty much requested an in-depth analysis, hence everyone going into detail.


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    #46
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    whirlpool wrote: »
    Just get out there and train is the right attitude, yeah, but I pretty much requested an in-depth analysis, hence everyone going into detail.

    Ok you want to start and lose weight while keeping the muscle you have under the fat.
    Write down everything you eat in a week. Work out how to cut carbs down a decent amount and keep or up your protein dont mind exact figures for now. For example instead of pizza have a chicken breast. You do need carbs just not as many as your eating.

    Find somewhere in your house where you can squat pressup dip and buy a pull up bar.(bout 20euro for a cheep one)
    Get a bike or good running shoes.
    2days a week cycle up a hill or jog followed by bodyweight squats.
    3days pressups dips pull ups planks.

    Alternate Jog cycle and rest days and take it easy at the start.
    When you can do a total of 100 pressup 25 pull ups 25 dips and a few sets of planks and are starting to do one legged squats without feeling like you have worked out get the gym membership money out of the pocket.

    If you cant do that many days do less. Take it easy at the start.
    Maybe 2x10 press ups
    3xwhat you can pull ups
    2x what you can dips
    and up it from there.
    You get out what you put in.
    The thread is 4 days old you could be 4kg lighter by now if you are anyway overweight


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    #47
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    jane82 wrote: »
    When you can do a total of 100 pressup 25 pull ups 25 dips

    :eek: At the moment I can't even do one pull up :pac:

    I have a pull-up bar in my room and I can't even make it up a third of the way :pac:

    I have made changes to my diet the past two months, primarily cutting grains and any products with sugar in them. I'm making steady progress in that regard. A lot more to do. I'm cutting dairy also; cutting the dairy and grains has been primarily to see if my energy levels go up, as they've generally always been pretty low.


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    #48
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Well done on the start. Use a stool to assist you less and less each time on the pull ups. Its quite normal to not be able to do one.


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    #49
    top madra
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭top madra


    davyjose wrote: »
    Juicing as a noob is a fcuking stupid idea. I mean unbelieveably brain-dead retarded. If someone feels the need to do so, at least wait until you've hit your genetic potential.

    But I want to look like Zyzz now brah!


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