Kilkenny Football - ??

Flukey · 12-03-2011 4:24pm

An awful lot has happened in this thread since I posted the second post. I haven't read it all and there are a lot of quotes that I would address, but there are too many and others have said what I would have said anyway. A lot of what I will say will have been said too. There is some rubbish in the thread though. Kilkenny people thinking we are trying to undermine Hurling is ridiculous. What do they think: If a Kilkenny football team went out against other division 4 teams and put up a score like 1 - 10 instead of 0 - 1 that it would be the end of Hurling in Kilkenny? Get a grip. Hurling is not threatened by having at the very least a competitive football team. Should Gowran Park be shut down because it is a threat? Someone mentioned the handballers. Success there hasn't undermined Hurling. Others mentioned how they have no history of success and as such no interest. Having no history of success didn't stop Westmeath winning Leinster in 2004. It doesn't stop Wicklow and Fermanagh trying, both or whom are behind Kilkenny in terms of Football success don't forget. Clare are still behind them. Sligo only equalled them with their Connacht title win in 2007. Limerick are behind them, but make the effort. Others too. To repeat again, we are not necessarily looking for the Kilkenny footballers to win the League or the Leinster Championship. It is just for them to put out a competitive team.

If 20 years ago someone had said that Westmeath would win a Leinster football title, others would be on the phone to the nearest mental hospital to ask if one of their patients had escaped. There are lots of examples of teams coming from nowhere to get to a competitive level. It is not that long ago that you would have thought to have been crazy if you suggested that Clare, Leitrim and Westmeath would win provincial football titles. To suggest that Fermanagh would run Armagh close in an Ulster final would also have made you look crazy. Even if you look in Hurling Clare had it rough in Munster for a long time, as had Offaly in Leinster, but they put the scoffers in their place. Offaly only won their first Leinster Hurling title in 1980 and have been at or not far from the top table ever since. All these "crazy" things have happened. No one here is suggesting that Kilkenny footballers make a big a leap in standards as any of those counties have, but just to get competitive. After that, anything could happen. A competitive Kilkenny football team is far less crazy than some of the other things I've mentioned would have once appeared. The thing is though, those other crazy things did happen. So surely something that is far less crazy could happen too.

Even if they still lost all their matches, but put up decent scores that would all we would want. It is not as some have put it, about forcing Kilkenny into the championship. It is just to get a competitive team even in the league. Down the line they should enter the championship, but for now get a team up to the level where they can go out and stick the ball over bar a few times in a match, and maybe get it into the net. As we often say, it's a simple game. It is not even a matter of funding as some have mentioned. Getting someone in who can do a few good training sessions to get them to the stage where they can get enough of the fundamental skills to put up a decent score isn't going to cost the earth, or anything at all. They must do some training sessions, so it is a matter of getting the right training.

As to there being no interest, that is bull. So are you telling me that on the third Sunday of September every year, not a single television in Kilkenny has people looking at the Football final? I suppose you'll be telling us that they have them off for the afternoon, waiting for Songs of Praise to come on. I suppose all their radios are off too! I suppose you'd have us believe that if you asked the members of the Kilkenny Football team would they like to win a Leinster and All-Ireland Football medals, they'd all say "No". There is interest there and with a tiny bit of competitiveness a few more people would start to support them. Someone else said 31 counties are capable of putting out a football team. That is not true. 32 of them are capable of fielding a team, but one doesn't bother.

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the thread is about Kilkenny Football, and not the poor state of Hurling in other counties. Some of those counties need a kick up the ass too, but that is for other threads. As has also been pointed out, even the worst of those teams can at least compete with others at their own level. That is all we ask of Kilkenny Football. One thing to their credit, that even their hurlers can't match, is that they haven't lost a championship game for years. So even if the hurlers had won the 5-in-a-row they wouldn't be close to the footballers unbeaten championship run.

It wouldn't take much to get the Kilkenny Football team up to competitive level. As I said earlier an outside manager would help. Even some of the training the hurlers get would help. A few sessions with the likes of Mick O'Dwyer would at least make them somewhat competitive. Other counties have been able to improve the weaker code, be it Hurling of Football, in their counties by putting a bit of work in. Where it has been done, the stronger code hasn't suffered. In Kilkenny's case of all counties, it would take something very serious to do even the slightest bit of damage to their Hurling prowess. A bit more attention to the footballers of the county certainly wouldn't do it.

There are all sorts of initiatives that could be done. An outside manager is one, but it doesn't even have to be that. There was a mention in the GAA of a scheme where strong counties in a code would be sending support to weaker counties and in return the reverse would be done for the other county's weaker game. So you could have coaches from Tyrone going to train Kilkenny Footballers and coaches from Kilkenny going to train Tyrone Hurlers. You could do things like have the Kilkenny county team work with mid-range club teams from stronger counties. There are all sorts of things you could do. We want the Kilkenny county board to support their county team and not ignore or even undermine them, as has been the case. I remember a few years ago that Kilkenny did win a match in the league, but the Kilkenny county board had arranged a trip away so they could not even take part in their next fixture. Could you see the Kilkenny county board arranging a weekend away on the weekend their Hurlers were due to play a league game? Not a chance.

So all we ask is that the Kilkenny county board get their finger out and just get the football team to put up a competitive performances. It could easily be done and it wouldn't in slightest damage Hurling.

ShamoBuc · 12-03-2011 5:55pm

The above is quite a good post.

Martin567 · 12-03-2011 6:13pm

Flukey wrote: »

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the thread is about Kilkenny Football, and not the poor state of Hurling in other counties. Some of those counties need a kick up the ass too, but that is for other threads. As has also been pointed out, even the worst of those teams can at least compete with others at their own level. That is all we ask of Kilkenny Football. One thing to their credit, that even their hurlers can't match, is that they haven't lost a championship game for years. So even if the hurlers had won the 5-in-a-row they wouldn't be close to the footballers unbeaten championship run.

The reason the state of hurling is continually being brought into this discussion is because people such as yourself continue to single out Kilkenny based on a fallacy. This fallacy underpins the whole thread and I have highlighted it in bold for you again. You believe that because the worst hurling teams are competitive with each other, they must be putting in more of an effort than Kilkenny at football. This is profoundly wrong as I have previously set out earlier in the thread. If Wexford, Waterford, Tipperary and a few more suddenly gave up on football, presumably this would be bad for the game. Yet the result would be that Kilkenny would very soon be "competitive" again, "at the lowest level". They would then escape criticism because there is safety in numbers. It may sound like a silly arguement but yet it is exactly the situation which exists in hurling. As another poster mentioned earlier, he knows someone who played two hurling matches in his entire life. Both were Longford Senior County Finals. Yet Longford remain "competitve" in Div 4 hurling because there are many more counties like them. Kilkenny are on their own the other way around and therein lies the difference.

I would also ask you not to be so arrogant as to try to tell us what Kilkenny people are or are not interested in. I live in Kilkenny so I am a little more informed than you. The interest here is minimal and is certainly not at the level that would allow Kilkenny to compete in any meaningful way with Div 1 football teams. I say Div 1 because pretty much all the other Div 4 teams are reasonably competitive with Div 1 teams so for Kilkenny to compete in Div 4, they would need to be likewise. Again, this is not a requirement for Div 4 hurling teams.

I am now sitting down watching the Ireland/Wales Rugby match. I am sure there are a lot of people in Kilkenny doing likewise. We are all very interested in the outcome. That doesn't mean that any significant number of us will want to go out and play Rugby next week. Believe it or not, our attitude to Gaelic Football is similar just as lots of counties feel like this about hurling.

Flukey · 12-03-2011 7:13pm

Those Hurling teams are competitive with each other and that is a crucial point. Kilkenny aren't competitive in Division 4. But it is more than that. Going out and recording the kinds of scores that they do shows how much off the pace they are. It is hard to believe that they can score so little. With a bit of work they could at least get to the point where they are competitive. As I said, I wouldn't mind them losing every match if they were at least competitive. Surely something can be done to up the standard. Kilkenny field a team, which shows there is some interest even if the people on the pitch outnumbered the spectators. The players themselves must have some pride, naturally they do. Surely that should drive them. I am sure they would want to score more and win games. So the problem lies elsewhere. Those men could surely get a bit of training to make them more competitive. The county board could do more to help. Other counties have made those kind of moves. Wicklow, with not a single Leinster title to their name and having only won once in Croke Park, had the initiative to pick up the phone and ring Mick O'Dwyer. There are coaches up and down the country that could make a difference to Kilkenny. There would be people in the county that could do it. The skills may be different but even a lot of what the hurlers would do during a training session would be of benefit. All we would like to see would be for them to put up a good performance, even if they lose. Moral victories are not much good, but even that would be progress. It is not a difficult game, easier than Hurling, so they should be able to perform better. A lot of the tactics would be similar. The two games have a lot in common and much of what is done in training a hurling team would apply. Surely they can do better.

Martin567 · 12-03-2011 7:42pm

Flukey wrote: »

Those Hurling teams are competitive with each other and that is a crucial point.

Of course it's a crucial point!!! It's crucial because they're all as bad as each other, as bad at hurling as Kilkenny are at football. In fact, it's a critical point. Numerous people have said that Kilkenny are singled out because they are the only county to so badly neglect one sport. This is clearly untrue as confirmed by yourself above. The fact that several counties with little or no hurling can still be competitive with each other is the confirmation. Therefore the entire thread is based on a misconception as Kilkenny have been unfairly singled out.

eroo · 12-03-2011 8:19pm

Martin567 wrote: »

Of course it's a crucial point!!! It's crucial because they're all as bad as each other, as bad at hurling as Kilkenny are at football. In fact, it's a critical point. Numerous people have said that Kilkenny are singled out because they are the only county to so badly neglect one sport. This is clearly untrue as confirmed by yourself above. The fact that several counties with little or no hurling can still be competitive with each other is the confirmation. Therefore the entire thread is based on a misconception as Kilkenny have been unfairly singled out.

I've discussed this before. No sport will ever have a situation where all of it's teams will be on the same competitive level.

The NHL Div 4 teams are competitive with each other. They would get destroyed by any Div 1 or 2 teams, but they can partake in the competition at a level they can play at and attempt to progress i.e. promotion to next Div. This is why the Leagues are split into Divisions; to allow weaker teams to progress and develop by earning promotion. They wont be contesting an AI final, but they can be competitive at their own level in the sport.

Your argument that they are all atrocious and this is hidden by the fact they only play each other, holds no water. You cannot expect 32 hurling/football teams to be on the same level. It does not happen in any sport. Thus they can play each other, and aim for promotion to the next tier, and subsequently, up their game again.

This is not happening with the KK football team and at the moment it shows no sign of happening. This is ridiculous as it wouldn't take much to make them competitive and seek promotion.

Martin567 · 12-03-2011 9:00pm

eroo wrote: »

I've discussed this before. No sport will ever have a situation where all of it's teams will be on the same competitive level.

The NHL Div 4 teams are competitive with each other. They would get destroyed by any Div 1 or 2 teams, but they can partake in the competition at a level they can play at and attempt to progress i.e. promotion to next Div. This is why the Leagues are split into Divisions; to allow weaker teams to progress and develop by earning promotion. They wont be contesting an AI final, but they can be competitive at their own level in the sport.

Your argument that they are all atrocious and this is hidden by the fact they only play each other, holds no water. You cannot expect 32 hurling/football teams to be on the same level. It does not happen in any sport. Thus they can play each other, and aim for promotion to the next tier, and subsequently, up their game again.

This is not happening with the KK football team and at the moment it shows no sign of happening. This is ridiculous as it wouldn't take much to make them competitive and seek promotion.

I have also discussed this before with you and very patiently explained it. Everything you say above is true about levels as far as it relates to hurling. It is completely untrue as far as it relates to football. On a given day, several of the Div 4 football teams are able to compete very well against Div 1 teams and have recorded Championship victories over them in the last two years at least. That is a simple fact. Kilkenny footballers are at the level of the Div 4 hurling teams but the other Div 4 football teams are on another planet to the Div 4 hurling teams. Every other county in Ireland has a football area of that county, however small. Kilkenny doesn't and very few in Kilkenny care. Those are the facts which all this talk of structures, etc, ignores. The Co Board is derived from the clubs who have little interest in football, similar to 10 or more hurling counties.

I also have to say that some people, who say they like it, must have a very low view of gaelic football as a sport. They seem to think that if Kilkenny just get a squad of players who are not good enough to make the senior hurling squad and just "organise" them and give them a few basics in football that they should be able to put in a respectable performance against Kerry or Cork. Like it or not, that's what some people are saying. Longford and Fermanagh, to name just two, are in Div 4 and would certainly expect to be within 10 points of Kerry or Cork even on a bad day. If Kilkenny are to compete with Longford or Fermanagh, they must do likewise.

12-03-2011 9:02pm

Flukey wrote: »

An awful lot has happened in this thread since I posted the second post. I haven't read it all and there are a lot of quotes that I would address, but there are too many and others have said what I would have said anyway. A lot of what I will say will have been said too. There is some rubbish in the thread though. Kilkenny people thinking we are trying to undermine Hurling is ridiculous. What do they think: If a Kilkenny football team went out against other division 4 teams and put up a score like 1 - 10 instead of 0 - 1 that it would be the end of Hurling in Kilkenny? Get a grip. Hurling is not threatened by having at the very least a competitive football team. Should Gowran Park be shut down because it is a threat? Someone mentioned the handballers. Success there hasn't undermined Hurling. Others mentioned how they have no history of success and as such no interest. Having no history of success didn't stop Westmeath winning Leinster in 2004. It doesn't stop Wicklow and Fermanagh trying, both or whom are behind Kilkenny in terms of Football success don't forget. Clare are still behind them. Sligo only equalled them with their Connacht title win in 2007. Limerick are behind them, but make the effort. Others too. To repeat again, we are not necessarily looking for the Kilkenny footballers to win the League or the Leinster Championship. It is just for them to put out a competitive team.

If 20 years ago someone had said that Westmeath would win a Leinster football title, others would be on the phone to the nearest mental hospital to ask if one of their patients had escaped. There are lots of examples of teams coming from nowhere to get to a competitive level. It is not that long ago that you would have thought to have been crazy if you suggested that Clare, Leitrim and Westmeath would win provincial football titles. To suggest that Fermanagh would run Armagh close in an Ulster final would also have made you look crazy. Even if you look in Hurling Clare had it rough in Munster for a long time, as had Offaly in Leinster, but they put the scoffers in their place. Offaly only won their first Leinster Hurling title in 1980 and have been at or not far from the top table ever since. All these "crazy" things have happened. No one here is suggesting that Kilkenny footballers make a big a leap in standards as any of those counties have, but just to get competitive. After that, anything could happen. A competitive Kilkenny football team is far less crazy than some of the other things I've mentioned would have once appeared. The thing is though, those other crazy things did happen. So surely something that is far less crazy could happen too.

Even if they still lost all their matches, but put up decent scores that would all we would want. It is not as some have put it, about forcing Kilkenny into the championship. It is just to get a competitive team even in the league. Down the line they should enter the championship, but for now get a team up to the level where they can go out and stick the ball over bar a few times in a match, and maybe get it into the net. As we often say, it's a simple game. It is not even a matter of funding as some have mentioned. Getting someone in who can do a few good training sessions to get them to the stage where they can get enough of the fundamental skills to put up a decent score isn't going to cost the earth, or anything at all. They must do some training sessions, so it is a matter of getting the right training.

As to there being no interest, that is bull. So are you telling me that on the third Sunday of September every year, not a single television in Kilkenny has people looking at the Football final? I suppose you'll be telling us that they have them off for the afternoon, waiting for Songs of Praise to come on. I suppose all their radios are off too! I suppose you'd have us believe that if you asked the members of the Kilkenny Football team would they like to win a Leinster and All-Ireland Football medals, they'd all say "No". There is interest there and with a tiny bit of competitiveness a few more people would start to support them. Someone else said 31 counties are capable of putting out a football team. That is not true. 32 of them are capable of fielding a team, but one doesn't bother.

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the thread is about Kilkenny Football, and not the poor state of Hurling in other counties. Some of those counties need a kick up the ass too, but that is for other threads. As has also been pointed out, even the worst of those teams can at least compete with others at their own level. That is all we ask of Kilkenny Football. One thing to their credit, that even their hurlers can't match, is that they haven't lost a championship game for years. So even if the hurlers had won the 5-in-a-row they wouldn't be close to the footballers unbeaten championship run.

It wouldn't take much to get the Kilkenny Football team up to competitive level. As I said earlier an outside manager would help. Even some of the training the hurlers get would help. A few sessions with the likes of Mick O'Dwyer would at least make them somewhat competitive. Other counties have been able to improve the weaker code, be it Hurling of Football, in their counties by putting a bit of work in. Where it has been done, the stronger code hasn't suffered. In Kilkenny's case of all counties, it would take something very serious to do even the slightest bit of damage to their Hurling prowess. A bit more attention to the footballers of the county certainly wouldn't do it.

There are all sorts of initiatives that could be done. An outside manager is one, but it doesn't even have to be that. There was a mention in the GAA of a scheme where strong counties in a code would be sending support to weaker counties and in return the reverse would be done for the other county's weaker game. So you could have coaches from Tyrone going to train Kilkenny Footballers and coaches from Kilkenny going to train Tyrone Hurlers. You could do things like have the Kilkenny county team work with mid-range club teams from stronger counties. There are all sorts of things you could do. We want the Kilkenny county board to support their county team and not ignore or even undermine them, as has been the case. I remember a few years ago that Kilkenny did win a match in the league, but the Kilkenny county board had arranged a trip away so they could not even take part in their next fixture. Could you see the Kilkenny county board arranging a weekend away on the weekend their Hurlers were due to play a league game? Not a chance.

So all we ask is that the Kilkenny county board get their finger out and just get the football team to put up a competitive performances. It could easily be done and it wouldn't in slightest damage Hurling.

^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^
Best post in the thread so far imo, and he is from Dublin so no danger of anyone coming back and accusing him of being a sheep shagger for having a difference of opinion.

PARKHEAD67 · 12-03-2011 10:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What a narrow minded and utterly moronic suggestion. it reminds me of the 'winter sports heads' who couldn't comprehend the concept of a Jamaican bob sled team.

Sport is constantly evolving in different parts of the globe. there are far less dynamic sports in the world then Gaelic football. yes hurling is better but in an ideal world both would get the same exposure in all 32 counties.

Hmmm. I really dont understand this post. Kilkenny like hurling and play it at a phenomenal level. Why should they have to like football. You dont see em playing Ice-hockey in the Sahara if you get my drift. Football and hurling are 2 completely different sports.

13-03-2011 1:02pm

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Hmmm. I really dont understand this post. Kilkenny like hurling and play it at a phenomenal level. Why should they have to like football. You dont see em playing Ice-hockey in the Sahara if you get my drift. Football and hurling are 2 completely different sports.

Fair point but having a least a competitive football team wouldn't threaten their hurling. Football may not be popular in the county but surely its popular enough to at least give a good account of themselves at it.

peabutler · 13-03-2011 1:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair point but having a least a competitive football team wouldn't threaten their hurling. Football may not be popular in the county but surely its popular enough to at least give a good account of themselves at it.

I know it's hard to comprehend but it truly isn't. Kilkenny people really aren't bothered and even if the county board put more effort into it it wouldn't change a thing. The Hurling championship for the clubs is so competitve all year that you only get a chance to care about football if you lose a Quarter Final in September because from February it's 100% Hurling or risk relegation and injuries.

Gerard.C · 13-03-2011 1:46pm

peabutler wrote: »

I know it's hard to comprehend but it truly isn't. Kilkenny people really aren't bothered and even if the county board put more effort into it it wouldn't change a thing. The Hurling championship for the clubs is so competitve all year that you only get a chance to care about football if you lose a Quarter Final in September because from February it's 100% Hurling or risk relegation and injuries.

Just like Irish people really wernt bothered with cricket untill last year? Thats an unbelieveable attitude to have. KK people dont care that their footballers are a joke. I would.

Hammer Archer · 13-03-2011 1:52pm

Gerard.C wrote: »

Just like Irish people really wernt bothered with cricket untill last year? Thats an unbelieveable attitude to have. KK people dont care that their footballers are a joke. I would.

Do you think Cavan people care that their hurling team is a joke? What about Tyrone, Leitrim, Fermanagh? Do you care about Tipperary handballers? What about Tipperary rounders? Probably not even though these are also GAA games. Kilkenny people just are never (at least in my lifetime) going to be interested in playing football to a high standard. And I'm really baffled that there's a thread with over 200 posts complaining about it

Flukey · 13-03-2011 4:19pm

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

peabutler · 13-03-2011 5:06pm

Flukey wrote: »

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

But I wouldn't like to see better performances and more effort because I am completely indifferent to the sport.

As for Pride TBH wrongly or rightly we take pride that we have more All Ireland's in one sport than most teams have combined, Football in Kilkenny is a nuisance. It is that simple.

ShamoBuc · 13-03-2011 5:50pm

peabutler wrote: »

But I wouldn't like to see better performances and more effort because I am completely indifferent to the sport.

As for Pride TBH wrongly or rightly we take pride that we have more All Ireland's in one sport than most teams have combined, Football in Kilkenny is a nuisance. It is that simple.

I'm glad not everybody takes that narrowminded attitude in kk.

ShamoBuc · 13-03-2011 6:09pm

Well done to the Kilkenny footballers today!!!
They scored more goals than they conceeded - it's the little victories that keep ye going!
Onwards and upwards!!!

blackbelt · 13-03-2011 6:18pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Well done to the Kilkenny footballers today!!!
They scored more goals than they conceeded - it's the little victories that keep ye going!
Onwards and upwards!!!

Yes and they also managed to keep the defeat below 20 points which is an achievement for them.

Flukey · 13-03-2011 6:25pm

3 goals and a point. That is good. They were still comfortably beaten but it shows that there is potential there. All it needs is a bit of work and support. The players that lined out have some interest so even if the general Kilkenny public don't, maybe attention has to turn them. I am sure they would like to improve their performances. They would not be as indifferent to things as the Kilkenny people or their own county board are. So if others won't support them, maybe they have to lead the charge.

Hammer Archer · 13-03-2011 8:19pm

Flukey wrote: »

As we keep saying, this thread is not about those other counties. As we've also said, if you keep insisting on bringing other counties and Hurling into it, none of them get the kind of hammerings that Kilkenny do. We are not looking for Sam to join Liam in the streets of Kilkenny on a regular basis, just the simple ability to put up a decent performance. That would not take much so we are asking for very little. The good GAA people of Kilkenny that have contributed to the thread seem to take a defensive attitude to this request rather than even saying that they would like to see it too, whatever about its prospects of happening. We know Kilkenny GAA people are not short of pride, but it does seem to be surprising lacking in this regard. Even if you don't particularly care about football you would expect to have some level of pride to wish they would put up a reasonable performance. It's as if nobody wants their teams hammered, except Kilkenny. As I've said though, we know there is pride in Kilkenny so why is it so lacking, even if you have little interest? Isn't there even one Kilkenny person here who can stand up and say that they would like to see their footballers play better and would like something done to achieve that?

But that begs the question why are people so worked up about Kilkenny footballers when there are 10 times more hurling counties that put the same effort into hurling (Cavan wanted to disband their hurling team this year).
I really feel like I'm going around in circles. Cavan were beaten by 37 points this afternoon. Their total points difference is now -116 after 4 games so don't say that hurling teams aren't getting the same sort of hammerings. Also (as I've mentioned before) the teams in division 4 of the NHL of a far worse standard than those in division 4 in the NFL.

You say that this thread isn't about these other counties but my question is, if there is such anger at Kilkenny's efforts in football, where is the anger that so many more counties put in little effort into hurling? If someone could give me a satisfactory answer to that it'd be great.

13-03-2011 9:33pm

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

adrian522 · 13-03-2011 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

maybe if he'd manage the footballers there might be an upturn in fortunes?

flahavaj · 13-03-2011 10:20pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

But that begs the question why are people so worked up about Kilkenny footballers when there are 10 times more hurling counties that put the same effort into hurling (Cavan wanted to disband their hurling team this year).
I really feel like I'm going around in circles. Cavan were beaten by 37 points this afternoon. Their total points difference is now -116 after 4 games so don't say that hurling teams aren't getting the same sort of hammerings. Also (as I've mentioned before) the teams in division 4 of the NHL of a far worse standard than those in division 4 in the NFL.

You say that this thread isn't about these other counties but my question is, if there is such anger at Kilkenny's efforts in football, where is the anger that so many more counties put in little effort into hurling? If someone could give me a satisfactory answer to that it'd be great.

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

adrian522 · 13-03-2011 10:28pm

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

IMO these points about hurling being weak in these other counties is entirely relevant and is just as much an issue as the Kilkenny footballers. Perhaps more so as hurling is in a much worse state nationally than football.

It's not as pronounced as there are quite a few CB's that treat hurling in such a shabby manner.

I think we are just going to have to accept that Kilkenny footballers are just not capable of competing at national level until a lot more work is put in within the county. The weekly beatings don't do anyone any good.

The problem as I see it is that there doesn't seem to be any appetite to put in that work.

Hammer Archer · 13-03-2011 10:35pm

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

Because I don't care, that's my entire point. I'm just wondering why there is such an irrational anger about one county's attitude to football and not about several other counties' attitude to hurling. If a county board doesn't want to promote a certain game as much as another, that's their periogative. Equally, if a public simply doesn't want to play football/hurling, that's also their choice.

ShamoBuc · 13-03-2011 10:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What the hell is that man doing at a football game?

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/460333/

lol But there's no interest in kk in football :rolleyes:

p.s. it's always nice to see the Kerry football manager as a spectator on All Ireland Football Final Day in Croker;)

eroo · 13-03-2011 11:54pm

adrian522 wrote: »

I think we are just going to have to accept that Kilkenny footballers are just not capable of competing at national level until a lot more work is put in within the county. The weekly beatings don't do anyone any good.

The problem as I see it is that there doesn't seem to be any appetite to put in that work.

This is the sort of replies that should be coming in, leave hurling out of it and start a thread for it.

flahavaj · 14-03-2011 1:09am

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Because I don't care, that's my entire point. I'm just wondering why there is such an irrational anger about one county's attitude to football and not about several other counties' attitude to hurling. If a county board doesn't want to promote a certain game as much as another, that's their periogative. Equally, if a public simply doesn't want to play football/hurling, that's also their choice.

Stop going on about it then if you don't care, or worse still stop telling other people they should care.

14-03-2011 1:13am

flahavaj wrote: »

You could always start a thread about how poor Cavan hurler are and the generally poor standard of hurling in Div 4 if it concerns you that much? Why would we discuss them in a thread about football?

I love how people are using the fact that other counties have a poor attitude towards hurling as some kind of justification for Kilkenny's shameful attitude towards football. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn't make it in any less emberrassing or acceptable. This thread is about football in Kilkenny, attempting to muddy the water won't really change that fact.

You ask ehere is the anger towards Cavan, but this isn't a thread about Cavan so why would anyone get anygry about them in here? Makes no sense.

True. And on top of that Cavan were fairly competitive with the rest of div 4 last year. its just this year they are gone to the dogs in terms of div 4 hurling. they have hired outside help in the form of an offaly man to provide expertise and guidance for the future and say that more youngsters then ever are hurling up there. As a Cavan co board member said in one independent article they advertised in one article for lads to come up from the stronger counties to help them out and a lad from cork, kilkenny and offaly turned up. they asked the offaly man how good he was and he said he was OK but wouldn't be dislodging Johnny Dooley in offaly team in the future.at least they cast the net for the expertise. Monaghan had Joe Hayes as manager at one stage.
Kilkenny on the other hand have Mick Dempsey a former Laois county footballer as a hurling selector. ?????
Surely to god they could pick his brain on a few things?

Mullinahone have a hurling blitz here in Tipperary every year and only for the few teams who come down from the north it probably have taken wouldn't take off and i can tell you the passion these youngsters have for the game is fantastic. i wonder how many football tournaments KK clubs attend to try promote the game?

14-03-2011 1:38am

Another story i heard both from my ex who is an avid Kilkenny woman and my uncle lord have mercy on him who married and lived in callan, the county board would treat the hurlers to a 3-course slap up meal in langtons while the footballers would have to settle for tae and ham sandwiches in the next room. No joke!

EDIT: Cant believe i forgot probably the most absurd story of the whole lot but it was long time ago when i heard that one

Flukey · 14-03-2011 1:48am

adrian522 wrote: »

IMO these points about hurling being weak in these other counties is entirely relevant and is just as much an issue as the Kilkenny footballers.

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

Ken. · 14-03-2011 1:55am

There should be a swap system, send a few hurlers that'll never get on the kilkenny hurling team to play for kerry and likewise there's a glut of class footballers in kerry that'll never get a look in there that could move to kilkenny. Thats just one example. It would improve football in kilkenny and improve hurling in "weaker counties".
I know it'll never happen but thats my 2cent worth.

Flukey · 14-03-2011 2:19am

lucyfor09 wrote:

There should be a swap system, send a few hurlers that'll never get on the kilkenny hurling team to play for kerry and likewise there's a glut of class footballers in kerry that'll never get a look in there that could move to kilkenny. Thats just one example. It would improve football in kilkenny and improve hurling in "weaker counties".
I know it'll never happen but thats my 2cent worth.

I wouldn't swap players, as it is part of the beauty of the GAA that players predominantly play for their own counties. Some do change, but for the most part not. It wouldn't really be a particular county's team if there were too many players from other counties on it. The pride in county and jersey is important. So it is about helping the native players improve their own performances and that of their county. What they should do, and I've mentioned it earlier, is swap coaches. There is some sort of scheme like that, being promoted by the GAA. Kerry football coaches helping Kilkenny and Kilkenny Hurling coaches helping Kerry. That makes a lot more sense than swapping players.

Hammer Archer · 14-03-2011 2:43am

flahavaj wrote: »

Stop going on about it then if you don't care, or worse still stop telling other people they should care.

Oh sweet jesus :rolleyes:
Kilkenny people don't care about football, stop telling them they should care.

14-03-2011 2:50am

Flukey wrote: »

I wouldn't swap players, as it is part of the beauty of the GAA that players predominantly play for their own counties. Some do change, but for the most part not. It wouldn't really be a particular county's team if there were too many players from other counties on it. The pride in county and jersey is important. So it is about helping the native players improve their own performances and that of their county. What they should do, and I've mentioned it earlier, is swap coaches. There is some sort of scheme like that, being promoted by the GAA. Kerry football coaches helping Kilkenny and Kilkenny Hurling coaches helping Kerry. That makes a lot more sense than swapping players.

they could easily do that twin training thing like in hurling too. For any young footballer to get advice of a Brian Dooher or Tomas o'Se or one of the Brogans would be some boost no matter what part of the world you are from. There was a thread some time ago about non nationals who participate in both games and surely if a polish man or an English man can adapt to the games having never had exposure to them then surely us Irish can also having had loads of exposure.

adrian522 · 14-03-2011 10:43am

Flukey wrote: »

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

It is completely relevant when you are talking about a county board completely focusing on one sport to the determent of the other.

When you argue that the Kilkenny county board are a disgrace and an embarrassment I can agree but I don't accept that they are alone in this as has been suggested throughout this thread.

The treatment of hurling in these counties is just as shoddy in these counties is just as disgraceful and IMO much more important because hurling is in a much more precarious position than hurling. After all football thrives in most areas of the country. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't mean it's not relevant.

By the way I think it is out of order and very sad that you feel a need to bring up the Japanese earthquakes into this discussion.

adrian522 · 14-03-2011 10:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

Another story i heard both from my ex who is an avid Kilkenny woman and my uncle lord have mercy on him who married and lived in callan, the county board would treat the hurlers to a 3-course slap up meal in langtons while the footballers would have to settle for tae and ham sandwiches in the next room. No joke!

EDIT: Cant believe i forgot probably the most absurd story of the whole lot but it was long time ago when i heard that one

This is incorrect, the food in langtons is free for the players not payed for by the board and the footballers get the same treatment,

The above may have been true in years gone by but not anymore.

Martin567 · 14-03-2011 10:51am

Flukey wrote: »

It is totally and absolutely irrelevant in a thread about "KILKENNY FOOTBALL". If we had a thread about Cavan Hurling, Kilkenny football would be totally irrelevant in that. What is happening in Japan at the moment is far worse than the state of Kilkenny Football, but no one has brought that up in this thread because this is not a thread about earthquakes and tsunamis. I think that it was a disgrace when they were talking about disbanding the Cavan Hurling team, but it is totally irrelevant in this thread, so I won't be mentioning it again in this thread. There are all sorts of things that I think are a disgrace, but this thread isn't about any of them. If someone wants to start a thread about Cavan Hurling or other poor Hurling teams then many of us here posting about Kilkenny Football, as that is what this thread is about in case you had not noticed, would certainly contribute to that. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, Kilkenny Football. I'll repeat that: Kilkenny Football. OK, now we all know what the thread is about, so... isn't it a disgrace that the county board in Kilkenny will not do their job of promoting Gaelic games as they are ignoring Gaelic Football?

I explained more than 10 times why the state of hurling around the country was relevant to this thread and you, among others, only confirmed this relevance with your incorrect comparisons between the lower levels of the NFL & NHL. I repeat, the state of hurling around the country is critical to any balanced discussion about the state of Kilkenny Football. Your post above is a particularly patronising attempt to evade that simple fact.

bruschi · 14-03-2011 3:06pm

can I ask those in this thread who are so adamant that there is interest in Kilkenny for football, do you actually know anyone in Kilkenny who thinks this way, or are you presuming that they should have an interest just because thats the way things should be? simple question.

having a casual interest in football, going to the AI final or watching it on tv, is not the same as training 3 times a week and lining out in one sided games. I personally know a lot of Kilkenny footballers. I know a lot of them are extremely good footballers. and I also know the majority of them have never lined out for the county side. some did at underage level. but most were also good hurlers and on the county side at underage level, and they view club championship hurling as more important than county football. I know of 2 lads this year who lined out for the county footballers in earlier rounds, as a means to get back training before the club hurling started back up.

I have already said it is sad that these footballers go to waste, but whilst there is development and funding for poorer hurling counties, the same facilities arent there for this side. because apparently football is an easier game to play and everyone should be able to be competetive. its not as easy as that. it needs to be brought on from a young age, and there are a good few young lads able to play. but their main interest is hurling, whether that be for county or club. there are a few dedicated lads on the senior side, but if anyone has the interest in doing so, vheck out the teams from this year, or last year, or even from the first round to the last, and see how many names are repeated. Players turn up for a while, and leave it. some players on the panel would barely make their poor club football side. but they get a chance at county level because other better players are just not interested in it.

blackbelt · 14-03-2011 4:10pm

Whatever it is,the Kilkenny footballers certainly won't become a powerhouse overnight but even in a less heavy defeat from yesterday,there are signs that the Kilkenny footballers can progress.Also,they did keep to within 7 points of Meath a few months ago in the O Byrne Cup Shield.

It will be many years before we see a semi competitive Kilkenny football team.Apparently they have put more emphasis into underage and youth structures but are these kids going to abandon football for love of the hurl?It can certainly happen with age and growing up watching Kilkenny hurlers winning Liam McCarthy's could throw them off football.Equally,if Kilkenny hurling was to go into a lull,more than likely we'll see improvements in football over an extended period but the whole issue of football contempt is holding them back in having two competitive teams in both codes.

I see where the Kilkenny fans are coming from in terms of arguments in relation to interest and the issue of weak hurling counties,that argument comes more from the idea of Kilkenny being victimised when a lot of counties have weak hurling teams but the issue is Kilkenny football and the contempt/weakness shown to it,especially at county board level.

flahavaj · 14-03-2011 4:37pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus :rolleyes:
Kilkenny people don't care about football, stop telling them they should care.

The county board should start giving the reason to care, because at the moment they have none.

riffmongous · 14-03-2011 4:46pm

blackbelt wrote: »

I see where the Kilkenny fans are coming from in terms of arguments in relation to interest and the issue of weak hurling counties,that argument comes more from the idea of Kilkenny being victimised when a lot of counties have weak hurling teams but the issue is Kilkenny football and the contempt/weakness shown to it,especially at county board level.

Looking back through the thread I am almost convinced that the Kilkenny county board might have a case to answer. While my own thoughts on Kilkenny football haven't changed if there are people interested in football then they should get the attention from the KCB they deserve.

But for all the protestations that this is a thread about Kilkenny football and not Cavan Hurling the fact is that there is over 240 posts about KK football and we don't even have a thread on Cavan hurling (and I don't think we ever will) and it might just be victimisation as you suggest but it seems to me that there is an agenda here.

ShamoBuc · 14-03-2011 5:07pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Looking back through the thread I am almost convinced that the Kilkenny county board might have a case to answer. While my own thoughts on Kilkenny football haven't changed if there are people interested in football then they should get the attention from the KCB they deserve.

But for all the protestations that this is a thread about Kilkenny football and not Cavan Hurling the fact is that there is over 240 posts about KK football and we don't even have a thread on Cavan hurling (and I don't think we ever will) and it might just be victimisation as you suggest but it seems to me that there is an agenda here.

I would agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph.

Your second - well, as has been said - 6 or 7 posts ago I think - Cavan were fairly competitive in div 4 upto recently As Distinct From kk footballers who haven't been competitive in div4 for quite a while - therein lies the difference. That's not someones agenda, that's fact.

I'm from Cork and would be quite happy if kk hurlers didn't win Liam for a long number of years - I think that's a failry typical opinion from where I'm from. Does that mean I should have a go at their county board for the state of kk footballers because of their hurlers or because they are from kk? Fúck no.
I'm having a go at the kk county board because of the state of their footballers, plain and simple. Not enough is being done to aid them become somewhat competitive in div 4. There are footballers in kk and the ones that are interested ( 20 odd out of 80,000 would do) should be looked after and trained/coached/developed accordingly. Proper structures should be in place! IF that happened I have no doubt they would be competitive in Div 4 - I don't think that is too much to ask from a county board!

blackbelt · 14-03-2011 5:13pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Looking back through the thread I am almost convinced that the Kilkenny county board might have a case to answer. While my own thoughts on Kilkenny football haven't changed if there are people interested in football then they should get the attention from the KCB they deserve.

But for all the protestations that this is a thread about Kilkenny football and not Cavan Hurling the fact is that there is over 240 posts about KK football and we don't even have a thread on Cavan hurling (and I don't think we ever will) and it might just be victimisation as you suggest but it seems to me that there is an agenda here.

I've raised the issue of Cavan hurling on the new Cavan GAA discussion thread.I believe thats more appropriate to get a reaction and a discussion there,obviously we'll explore the whole issue of a greater amount of counties levels of hurling later but this discussion will continue specifically for KK football while the other threads will debate hurling.

Martin567 · 14-03-2011 5:25pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I would agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph.

Your second - well, as has been said - 6 or 7 posts ago I think - Cavan were fairly competitive in div 4 upto recently As Distinct From kk footballers who haven't been competitive in div4 for quite a while - therein lies the difference. That's not someones agenda, that's fact.

You seem genuine but the above is what is continually driving me mad! The belief that because the Div 4 hurling teams are competitive against each other that they are somehow doing a better job than the Kilkenny footballers. This is the fundamental misunderstanding running right through this thread. Meanwhile Kilkenny footballers are expected to be competitive against teams which are competitive against, and sometimes beat, Div 1 football teams. Therein lies the big difference which some people simply refuse to see.

riffmongous · 14-03-2011 5:42pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I would agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph.

Your second - well, as has been said - 6 or 7 posts ago I think - Cavan were fairly competitive in div 4 upto recently As Distinct From kk footballers who haven't been competitive in div4 for quite a while - therein lies the difference. That's not someones agenda, that's fact.

I'm from Cork and would be quite happy if kk hurlers didn't win Liam for a long number of years - I think that's a failry typical opinion from where I'm from. Does that mean I should have a go at their county board for the state of kk footballers because of their hurlers or because they are from kk? Fúck no.
I'm having a go at the kk county board because of the state of their footballers, plain and simple. Not enough is being done to aid them become somewhat competitive in div 4. There are footballers in kk and the ones that are interested ( 20 odd out of 80,000 would do) should be looked after and trained/coached/developed accordingly. Proper structures should be in place! IF that happened I have no doubt they would be competitive in Div 4 - I don't think that is too much to ask from a county board!

Fair enough Shambo.

Flukey · 14-03-2011 9:36pm

adrian522 wrote:

It is completely relevant when you are talking about a county board completely focusing on one sport to the determent of the other.

Yes we are talking about "a county board", the one being Kilkenny, and we are talking about one sport, it being Football. That is what this thread was started for. It is not a generic thread about poor counties in either or both codes, just specifically about Kilkenny Football.

adrian522 wrote:

When you argue that the Kilkenny county board are a disgrace and an embarrassment I can agree but I don't accept that they are alone in this as has been suggested throughout this thread.

I am glad you can agree about the Kilkenny county board being a disgrace, so could we continue talking about Kilkenny and Football? I also agree, as do many others in this thread, that there are problems with Hurling in other counties, but that is not what this thread is about. There is an ongoing thread about Hurling's problems and that is where we can talk about that issue. Kilkenny Football would be irrelevant in it, so we should talk about Kilkenny Football here and the poor state of Hurling around the country in that thread.

Martin567 wrote: »

I explained more than 10 times why the state of hurling around the country was relevant to this thread and you, among others, only confirmed this relevance with your incorrect comparisons between the lower levels of the NFL & NHL. I repeat, the state of hurling around the country is critical to any balanced discussion about the state of Kilkenny Football. Your post above is a particularly patronising attempt to evade that simple fact.

See above.

Martin567 wrote: »

You seem genuine but the above is what is continually driving me mad! The belief that because the Div 4 hurling teams are competitive against each other that they are somehow doing a better job than the Kilkenny footballers. This is the fundamental misunderstanding running right through this thread. Meanwhile Kilkenny footballers are expected to be competitive against teams which are competitive against, and sometimes beat, Div 1 football teams. Therein lies the big difference which some people simply refuse to see.

We perfectly understand that. What singles Kilkenny out is how far behind the rest that they are. That is the central issue. So why can't something be done to close that gap? Why is it that, as you say, other Division 4 teams can on their day put it up to Division 1 teams, but Kilkenny can't? Football is easier than Hurling, so we would expect the difference between Division 1 and Division 4 to be quite large in Hurling and it is. At least though, there is no one Hurling team at the bottom tier that is way behind the others at the bottom tier. They are all as bad as each other as it were. That's Hurling, but we are talking football. So why is one county so far behind the rest of the bottom of the football pile? Why is it that the Division 4 football teams are all as bad as each other, except for one which is much worse?

Why is it the other counties that don't put much focus on Football because Hurling is central in them too can still at least get a team out that can play well? With the right effort and training and other ideas that have been mentioned, Kilkenny's football team could go out and perform well too. Other counties can also say that there is little interest in Football but still put competitive teams out. As little interest as there is in Kilkenny, they should still be able to get their team of players that do have an interest to get to the level where they can put up a respectable performance. We do not believe there is some genetic incapability in Kilkenny that prevents people from being good at football that is not present in the other 31 counties. All they need is better training and support from their county board. Yes, other counties in their poorer game also need that, but this thread is specifically about the Kilkenny Football team. So without reference to how bad Hurling teams are in other counties, which is perfectly true and accepted unanimously by us, can we talk about Kilkenny Football? So, for example, if you were elected onto the Kilkenny county board in the morning and told that you had to do something to improve football in the county, what would you do?

ShamoBuc · 14-03-2011 9:56pm

Martin567 wrote: »

You seem genuine but the above is what is continually driving me mad! The belief that because the Div 4 hurling teams are competitive against each other that they are somehow doing a better job than the Kilkenny footballers. This is the fundamental misunderstanding running right through this thread. Meanwhile Kilkenny footballers are expected to be competitive against teams which are competitive against, and sometimes beat, Div 1 football teams. Therein lies the big difference which some people simply refuse to see.

I don't think it is a misunderstanding but is down to the games themselves. Football is a simple enough game really. Once you have good ball skills and are fit you can play away - although many a junior b footballer on a sunday morning doesn't have either:D. This is why you can have a situation where a div 4 team might be competitive against a div1 team.
However hurling really is a completely different ball game. The skill level is simply on a different scale to football. The skills are worked on for years, honed and toned as they say. You simply cannot compare the skills of the two games - hurling is clearly far more complex. As a direct result of this difference, the variance between div1 and div4 is far wider than in football.

:DTake 15 Italian soccer players and train them for 2 months - you could have a team capable of playing a football game.
Take 15 Itlaian soccer players and train them for 2 months - do you think you would have a hurling team capable of playing a game of hurling? I seriously doubt it. Expand the difference in the skills over years and years and years and what do you get ...... 30 pissed off Italians:D

Stevecw · 14-03-2011 10:33pm

Fair play to Kilkenny yesterday ending somehow with 3-1. I was 1 of about 30/40 people there, 95% of us were frfom Carlow. Kilkenny have no support at all, bar a few family members of the lads on the team I'd say.

It was a strange old game. 1st up Carlow played about half a regular team and at that most of them were out of position. Our sub keeper who actually has been no 1 for last 3/4 years had a nightmare, spilled one effort from way out into the goal and was bet to a 80/20 ball in his favour for a 2nd. 3rd Kilkenny goal got a nice deflection into forwards arms and he did stick it away well. But think that will end our keepers chance of being Carlow goalie again, he's about 34 has been there for years but really messed up bad yesterday and will be surprised if he is seen again.

Ok sounds good that they got 3-1, but in reality they are shocking. We got 2-21 and kicked lots of wides, and had 2 of 3 playing who would be lucky to make a Kilkenny side. Just hope once and for all Luke Dempsey forgets about them after seeing that yesterday.

It was a routine win with a 2nd string, Kilkenny tried but were terrible even at the basics. It was all just hoof it and hope for the best. Did work out for the goals but most weeks it won't.

Knew we'd beat them by around that, in my prediction on the NFL pools thread here I predicted a Carlow win by 17 pts...and that is exactly how it finished

(Wasn't me in goal by the way!!)

Agus · 14-03-2011 10:35pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I don't think it is a misunderstanding but is down to the games themselves. Football is a simple enough game really. Once you have good ball skills and are fit you can play away - although many a junior b footballer on a sunday morning doesn't have either:D. This is why you can have a situation where a div 4 team might be competitive against a div1 team.
However hurling really is a completely different ball game. The skill level is simply on a different scale to football. The skills are worked on for years, honed and toned as they say. You simply cannot compare the skills of the two games - hurling is clearly far more complex. As a direct result of this difference, the variance between div1 and div4 is far wider than in football.

:DTake 15 Italian soccer players and train them for 2 months - you could have a team capable of playing a football game.
Take 15 Itlaian soccer players and train them for 2 months - do you think you would have a hurling team capable of playing a game of hurling? I seriously doubt it. Expand the difference in the skills over years and years and years and what do you get ...... 30 pissed off Italians:D

Rubbish. It's obvious that football is about a hundred times more popular in Division 4 counties like Fermanagh or Roscommon than hurling is in its Div 4 counties like Longford or Cavan, so of course there is a wider gap between Divisions 1 and 4 hurling. As regards the Italians you forgot the huge advantage that the many transferable skills from soccer (and other games they might have played) to football would give there as opposed to hurling.

My point isn't about whether hurling is the more skilful game or whether it has an effect but it should be obvious that the levels of skill involved cannot be taken as the sole reason for the different levels of competitiveness between 1 and 4.

Kilkenny Football - ??

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