Abortion Discussion

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My understanding of the procedure (open to correction) is that if Higgins refers it to the Council of State and they declare it is ok there can be no challenge to it, if he just signs it then it's constitutionality can be challenged.

Not quite, the Council of State advise the President but it's his decision to refer it to the Supreme Court or not. If he does, it will either be struck down or rendered immune to any future constitutional challenge.


That Mattie McGrath 'case' was the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. The referendums he was referring to resulted in the Irish people voting to NOT remove suicide as a ground for abortion. If he had the slightest grasp of the basics of the Constitution, and how separation of powers is supposed to work in a democracy, he'd know that the High Court cannot injuct the Oireachtas from voting or not voting in a particular way. The only means open to him would be (if the Supreme Court have not already insulated the Bill from challenge, as above) would be to wait for it to be enacted and then challenge it on constitutional grounds. Not that he'd have much of a chance.

How can an elected representative be that ignorant about his own profession. What is he doing there?


FWIW the House of Commons has about six bars, and has had more than its fair share of drunken MPs (fights, etc) but afaik not in the chamber itself :rolleyes:

I must conclude he's just using the court system as a publicity stunt. Pretty sickening.

UDP wrote: »

Anyone else delighted that lucinda is gone? Someone that would stick to her "principles" when it comes to religious beliefs being forced upon the public but ignore any of those christian "pricipals" when it comes to cuts on the vulnerable in society - those that are born. The more i heard how important lucinda could be within the fg party the more i worried that she might vote with the government.

Career politician along with her husband who is making a name for herself as someone with a "conscience" (I hate the way this word is used as if the person is automatically right because its their conscience. Stalin had a conscience too). She will be in the Dail for a long time whether it is with FG or an independent.

ethical wrote: »

Give Lucinda credit,she decided from day one what way she was going to vote and stuck by it whether you agree with her or not.....whereas TD O'Mahony and Mulherin put the pay packet before their beliefs!.

In other words was completely closed minded to all facts and arguments, took the fingers in ears approach?

Mardy Bum wrote: »

She will be in the Dail for a long time whether it is with FG or an independent.

She has no hope of re-election in Dublin South East even if FG let her back in (and they won't.)


Meanwhile, almost every letter in the Irish Times today was anti-choice, most of them had very poor arguments. This was the worst:

Sir, – Methinks Lucinda Creighton will top the polls, either in or out of her ministry or Fine Gael. What a breath of fresh air – somebody with a conscience in an atheistic Government. – Yours, etc,

MICHAEL O’MARA,

Ballygeale,

Patrickswell,

Co Limerick.

There's not a big enough :rolleyes: for that. The second sentence is even more idiotic than the first.


Edit: fairly flying through the amendments now (on RTE News Now) it should finish up tonight. We'll have a law that gives limited protection to the lives of women and none to their health, yay... but it's still an improvement on what we have now. What a country.

Edit 2: oh and the 14 year sentence for taking a pill, it's an improvement on life imprisonment under the 1861 Act :rolleyes:

ninja900 wrote: »

She has no hope of re-election in Dublin South East even if FG let her back in (and they won't.)

Someone like herself (career politician) would probably move to a place more acclimatised towards her brand of politics and morality. FG will probably let her back in though if the next election is close.

That was on an amendment. They adjourned to 10:30 in the morning.

Edit: RTE and Irish Times saying it was the final vote. Didn't think they'd bother with the excuse that is the Friday sitting if the bill had passed all stages. Was dividing my attention between boards and VinB

Well in that case it's about flippin' time that people like us made our voices and votes heard and ejected the rosary bead flippers out on their collective behinds. I'm half-minded to print up an anti-life pledge for any candidates who dare call to my door next time around :pac:

Less of the 'new generation' thing though, most of us who are most vocal for change can remember the 1970s. That's the reason why we're vocal for change, perhaps... In Irish political terms, under 60 is 'new generation' I suppose.

So were there any amendments, for better or worse, actually made?

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oooh, now I can get that abortion I always wanted.

All you need to do is pretend to be suicidal!

Get some red marker and draw a few lines on your wrists!


Oh ****....
Can anyone draw an infographic?
Step 1: Get pregnant.
Step 2: Create realistic scarring with marker.
Step 3: Convince a panel of 4 Medical and Mental health experts that you are suicidal.
Step 4: Abortion!

old hippy wrote: »

Love this comment from the Irish Times

'Congratulations' to captain Kenny and his ship of fools.
There will be much celebration in pubs across the length and breadth of Ireland.
Captain Kenny has given the people of Ireland the' supreme human right' for mums and dads to be, to be able to snuff out the life of unwanted junior; the ultimate human right to be 'gods', arbiters of who lives and dies.
The law of unintended consequences will prevail.
British papers report the women who have had multiple abortions and one who has had 9 abortions.
Some human right, a charter for male selfishness, and female stupidity.
A initial trickle of 'hard cases' will ultimately lead to a torrent of 'on demand' abortions. A tsunami of British proportions
But Kenny and his ship of fools will only be celebrating a pyrrhic victory along with their gullible
supporters.

I will so enjoy the likes of the Iona crowd and Yoof Defence stamping their little feet over the weekend.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Is that commenter doing a warm up for John Waters?

Maybe it is John Waters.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Is there an updated copy of the legislation that passed available online now? Is this it?

http://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/protection-life-pregnancy.pdf

As its now going to the Seanad today I don't think the parliamentary draftspersons would have the updated Bill online. It'll be on the Oireachtas website. That's a draft Bill which wouldn't have been debated, a published Bill is what went before the Dáil and committee.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2013/6613/document1.htm

This is what you'll need to keep an eye on. There may be amendments made by the Minister in the Seanad.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Youth defense are being uncharacteristically quiet. Maybe now they can help babies by doing something like raise money for the babies that are born early and need care.

Or they could just throw the pram after the toys and scream about 60k people and how the majority is being ignored.

I imagine international and national tele-conferences are taking place to confirm SC appeals when it goes through the Seanad and (if) Mick sign's it into law.

Corkfeen wrote: »

It's still only 5am in America so nobody would be at work yet. Their new website is utterly headache inducing,even more so than before.......
http://www.youthdefence.ie/

When they say "save the baby" they mean that the pregnant woman must hope that lady Luck look's after her while the Medics must concentrate their attention on the foetus in the womb. I'm supposing the YD people would also be praying to their version of a merciful God that the woman's life is saved.

HurtLocker wrote: »

I won't. They love placing rally signs outside the CUH maternity buildings . I was disgusted when I saw them. I hope they lose their charitable status though. But for now I hope they would just f*ck off.

The poster edanto, on the thread about their site being hacked, pointed out that Youth Defence are not actually a charity. What they are is a political lobby group and while there is a agency to register with if you are a lobby group (SIPO, Standards in Public Office), it has no power to make them register.

Corkfeen wrote: »

Their new website is utterly headache inducing,even more so than before.......
http://www.youthdefence.ie/