PR or ER

itsallaboutheL · 27-06-2009 7:14pm

uuuuuuuuurrrrrrrggggghhhhhh still sick!! Bastard!

Smolov Week 4 Day 3

80% 8 x 4

Some Activation Stuff

Bench
bar x 30 i nearly pulled the plug on the session here
50kg x 10
60kg x 10
80kg x 5

112.5kg 8 x 4*

* the last set was 4 singles (re-racked after each rep) im still sick and i just didn't have anymore in the tank

Bent Over Later Raises
20kg 'bells
3x10

Wide Grip BB Curls
40kg
3 x 10

itsallaboutheL · 28-06-2009 7:55pm

Today
Still sick and i had actually forgotten that i was benching yesterday!!

Smolov Week 4 Day 4.....thank Batman its over!!

85% 10 x 3 + 7.5kg

Some Activation Stuff

Bench
bar x 30
50kg x 10
60kg x 10
80kg x 5

117.5kg 8 x 3*

*i stopped here, on the last rep the bar drifted back over my face, the right plate hit the rack and i nearly popped a shoulder trying to save it so instead of pushing my look on the last day of the program i decided for once to just quit while ahead!!

V Close Grip Bench
80kg x 14 Pumptastic

Reverse Grip BORs
60kg x 10
70kg x 10
80kg x 10
85kg x 10
80kg x 10

DB Curls
22kg 'bells
x10:rolleyes:

Notes:
Smolov is finished!! dunno what to do with myself now!! i reckon i've fixed whatever the hell had been wrong with my bench and am finally benching stronger than i was a year ago!!:)

:pac:And i got post of the day:p:D

Kev M · 28-06-2009 11:41pm

That's impressive benching, feels f***ing great to be finished a program doesn't it?

itsallaboutheL · 28-06-2009 11:47pm

Kev M wrote: »

That's impressive benching, feels f***ing great to be finished a program doesn't it?

absolutely amazing brother!! i don't think i've ever conciously tracked my progress before, or actually forced myself to up weights every week, bench feels so solid now, if you saw the state my bench was in 3 months ago and saw it now you wouldn't believe it was the same person lifting!!

I'm kinda shitting it to be going under max reps again tho! i was havin more trouble unracking the weight today than benching it!

Have u decided what you're gonna go at next??

Kev M · 28-06-2009 11:58pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

absolutely amazing brother!! i don't think i've ever conciously tracked my progress before, or actually forced myself to up weights every week, bench feels so solid now, if you saw the state my bench was in 3 months ago and saw it now you wouldn't believe it was the same person lifting!!

I'm kinda shitting it to be going under max reps again tho! i was havin more trouble unracking the weight today than benching it!

Have u decided what you're gonna go at next??

I'm ****ting it to be going under max weights aswell, not afraid or anything it's just I hate not knowing what's gonna happen!
I think a Westside template is the next hurdle for me, what you thinking of doing?

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 12:03am

Kev M wrote: »

I'm ****ting it to be going under max weights aswell, not afraid or anything it's just I hate not knowing what's gonna happen!
I think a Westside template is the next hurdle for me, what you thinking of doing?

HGH

:pac:

Kev M · 29-06-2009 12:13am

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

HGH

:pac:

LOL drop the reps and up the dosage. My grandad recently went on GH (for medical purposes of course) and says his only mistake was not taking it 20 years ago.... I won't make the same mistake

. I joke I joke, drugs are bad mmm'kay

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 12:21am

I'd like to have a craic at DC but it's not an option in the gym that im in for the summer, neither is making any real deadlift progress soooo im kinda at a loss with what to do, apart from sort out my squat which i am doing again finally!

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 12:36am

20 reps!

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 12:45am

brianthebard wrote: »

20 reps!

i told ya when i can do a 140kg widow maker i will!!

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 12:50am

How the **** do you think you're going to get there first?? If I could work up to 95kg after a year off training with a bad back there's no reason why you shouldn't be starting around that and working up to 140, even if it does take several cycles of building up and backing off the weight.

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 12:55am

brianthebard wrote: »

How the **** do you think you're going to get there first?? If I could work up to 95kg after a year off training with a bad back there's no reason why you shouldn't be starting around that and working up to 140, even if it does take several cycles of building up and backing off the weight.

horse bollox, i gaurantee you if i train till i get to a max where i can 20rep with 120 or so and you work up in twenties to a 120 ...i'll have a stronger max!!

Training to up your 20reppers is a load a balls IMO!! What say you?

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 1:05am

Say what? I'm a bit confused, I'm going to have to look up a rep calculator....no I think you're overestimating, there might be a some difference but not a huge amount.
The real questions are do you think you will be stronger after adding 20kg to your twenty reps? Will you be bigger?

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 1:07am

brianthebard wrote: »

Say what? I'm a bit confused, I'm going to have to look up a rep calculator....no I think you're overestimating, there might be a some difference but not a huge amount.
The real questions are do you think you will be stronger after adding 20kg to your twenty reps? Will you be bigger?

There'll be a huge differnce in Max strength, it would take you at least 2 months to come any where near me if we both did it our seperate ways

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 1:12am

How do you figure? Can you show me why? You should be able to work up to using 75% of your max for twenty reps.

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 1:15am

brianthebard wrote: »

How do you figure? Can you show me why? You should be able to work up to using 75% of your max for twenty reps.

You show me a strength trainer thats has spent 6months working within 75% of their max and i'll show you an inefficient program!! im off to bed im gonna explain tomorrow!!

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 3:02pm

Firstly, the word is inefficent....
Secondly, you don't think load, volume, intensity, time, etc have a role to play similiar or equal to cause growth?

kevpants · 29-06-2009 3:28pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

You show me a strength trainer thats has spent 6months working within 75% of their max and i'll show you an unefficient program!! im off to bed im gonna explain tomorrow!!

I had a 190kg squat in Dec 08. I started 5/3/1 in Jan. I squatted 215kg in April having never lifted more than 77% of that weight in the gym between Dec and April.

The theory that sub maximal weights will leave you with a less than optimum max is balls. Though it's not like you're the only one who believes it! It's pretty much an accepted fact.... an accepted fact made of balls. Big hairy ones.

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 4:49pm

kevpants wrote: »

I had a 190kg squat in Dec 08. I started 5/3/1 in Jan. I squatted 215kg in April having never lifted more than 77% of that weight in the gym between Dec and April.

The theory that sub maximal weights will leave you with a less than optimum max is balls. Though it's not like you're the only one who believes it! It's pretty much an accepted fact.... an accepted fact made of balls. Big hairy ones.

Kev re-read your post there first......

How do you know your max would have been the same if you had been training close to max loads???????

and 20reppers are fairly sub maximum like

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kevpants · 29-06-2009 5:13pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

How do you know your max would have been the same if you had been training close to max loads???????

I don't, maybe it would have been maybe not. But at the end of my Westside days I was just picking up injuries instead of gains. Sometimes heavy singles aren't the best way. I think everyone should train with heavy singles at least once in their training life but I was just saying you don't need to train near your max to improve your max.

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

20reppers are fairly sub maximum like

Yeah but getting stronger is getting stronger. You were saying you were going to improve your 1rm to the point where it meant you could do 140 x 20. But the logic whereby you could improve your 20 rep squat to the point where you 1rm goes up makes just as much sense if you ask me.

I mean, you're getting stronger either way but they are both slightly flawed when compared to eachother. 200kg is going to feel really heavy if you've only ever lifted 120kg even if it is for high reps. On the opposite side of things just lifting heavy singles and doubles your (can't think of the correct word!) conditioning (I suppose!) is going to suffer in that you won't have the same muscle stamina, if that's even a term that makes sense.

I reckon though 1rm's and 20reps are the two opposite ends of the squatting spectrum and I don't think you can really play them off against eachother. The thing they have in common being near the end of the spectrum, even if they are at opposite ends, is that I'm not sure about them being a good idea as a long term training tactic.

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 5:19pm

I agree on the stamina issue (along with everything else tbh) when I started doing deads for more than a few reps again recently 3 sets of 5 were a lot to get through, were previously it would've been no problem.

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 5:20pm

kevpants wrote: »

I don't, maybe it would have been maybe not. But at the end of my Westside days I was just picking up injuries instead of gains. Sometimes heavy singles aren't the best way. I think everyone should train with heavy singles at least once in their training life but I was just saying you don't need to train near your max to improve your max.

Yeah but getting stronger is getting stronger. You were saying you were going to improve your 1rm to the point where it meant you could do 140 x 20. But the logic whereby you could improve your 20 rep squat to the point where you 1rm goes up makes just as much sense if you ask me.

I mean, you're getting stronger either way but they are both slightly flawed when compared to eachother. 200kg is going to feel really heavy if you've only ever lifted 120kg even if it is for high reps. On the opposite side of things just lifting heavy singles and doubles your (can't think of the correct word!) conditioning (I suppose!) is going to suffer in that you won't have the same muscle stamina, if that's even a term that makes sense.

I reckon though 1rm's and 20reps are the two opposite ends of the squatting spectrum and I don't think you can really play them off against eachother. The thing they have in common being near the end of the spectrum, even if they are at opposite ends, is that I'm not sure about them being a good idea as a long term training tactic.

Mr>pants you have the wrong end of what i was saying to Brian, you're taking me very literally..

My point was....

Both of us are training for strength right

well if i train with a program that incorperates 1-5 rep sets whatever it may be, and he trains his 20 reppers to up them as much as he can, im going to be much more efficient in the top range than he is, which is both our ultimate goals....... Yaw Mee

I just dont see it being profitable to train for a half marathon when you want to run the 400!!

kevpants · 29-06-2009 5:30pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

well if i train with a program that incorperates 1-5 rep sets whatever it may be, and he trains his 20 reppers to up them as much as he can, im going to be much more efficient in the top range than he is, which is both our ultimate goals....... Yaw Mee

Just cos it's hot and sticky and I'm grumpy I'm gonna disagree again!

You won't automatically be the better lifter in the top range, the best lifter in the top range will be the lifter who progresses best. If you both start off at say having a 150kg squat. You train singles and doubles and add 10kg to your training max over 6 months and Brian takes the 20 rep route and adds 30kg to his 20 rep total over the 6 months.... he's gonna kick your ass in the top range, bottom range, left range, right range

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 5:39pm

kevpants wrote: »

Just cos it's hot and sticky and I'm grumpy I'm gonna disagree again!

You won't automatically be the better lifter in the top range, the best lifter in the top range will be the lifter who progresses best. If you both start off at say having a 150kg squat. You train singles and doubles and add 10kg to your training max over 6 months and Brian takes the 20 rep route and adds 30kg to his 20 rep total over the 6 months.... he's gonna kick your ass in the top range, bottom range, left range, right range

KEEEEVV

Your being annoying:P i pointed out i didnt ever say singles and doubles!!

Kev my point originally if u fecking listened was if we both trained our individual ways until we both could 20rep 140 or whatever

then went toe to toe on maxs, i'd blow him out of the water!!

( i.e if he trained by upping his 20reppers and i trained around 75-95% of max in much lower rep sets)

Your so not listening to what im saying!!

the drifter · 29-06-2009 6:34pm

whooooo hold on here now....first off there is no way L will squat 150kg no matter how many 20 reppers he does...with his fear of squatting it will never happen....

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 8:15pm

the drifter wrote: »

whooooo hold on here now....first off there is no way L will squat 150kg no matter how many 20 reppers he does...with his fear of squatting it will never happen....

Bite me!!:cool:

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 8:18pm

Today

Pile a crap

Chins
2x10

Hang Snatches
50kg
3 x 10

Reverse Grip Pulldowns
75kg
4x15

Upright Rows
60kg
3x8

Single Arm DB Rows
24kg 'bell
x30 each side
x25 each side
x20 each side

Heap of poo

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 9:17pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Mr>pants you have the wrong end of what i was saying to Brian, you're taking me very literally..

My point was....

Both of us are training for strength right

well if i train with a program that incorperates 1-5 rep sets whatever it may be, and he trains his 20 reppers to up them as much as he can, im going to be much more efficient in the top range than he is, which is both our ultimate goals....... Yaw Mee

I just dont see it being profitable to train for a half marathon when you want to run the 400!!

Tbh that's nothing like what you said the first time...and you should know that strength training happens over years and decades, not over months, so you'd be better training for that marathon...

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Kev my point originally if u fecking listened was if we both trained our individual ways until we both could 20rep 140 or whatever

then went toe to toe on maxs, i'd blow him out of the water!!

( i.e if he trained by upping his 20reppers and i trained around 75-95% of max in much lower rep sets)

Your so not listening to what im saying!!

I'd really like to understand what you think would happen, no joke. If someone trains 20 reps, upping the weight every session, and someone trains with near maximal weight and ups the weight every session (in both cases, where possible), what exactly do you think is going to happen?

itsallaboutheL · 29-06-2009 10:27pm

Tbh that's nothing like what you said the first time...and you should know that strength training happens over years and decades, not over months, so you'd be better training for that marathon...

my analogy was that what you are doing with 20reppers is like wanting to up your 400 m time by running endurance distances

granted if you're upping your 20reppers your going to get stronger as well as up your ability within a 20 rep range,
but IMO your CNS is going to be trained to expect a certain load for lots of reps and theres no way its going to be able to recruit optimum muscle fibres if you throw yourself under maximal loads.

I'd really like to understand what you think would happen, no joke. If someone trains 20 reps, upping the weight every session, and someone trains with near maximal weight and ups the weight every session (in both cases, where possible), what exactly do you think is going to happen?

I think both are going to progress within their own spheres, 20rep guy is going to have **** hot endurance strength and big fcuking thighs

the other guy is going to be getting better at handling heavy weight efficiently

But you have to remember that what started this is the idea that both have the same goal of getting the biggest max possible....

anyhoo correct me if im wrong but were the 20reppers or Widow makers not popularised by Dante or DC or whatever his name was as a way to shock the muscles into growth??

brianthebard · 29-06-2009 10:47pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

my analogy was that what you are doing with 20reppers is like wanting to up your 400 m time by running endurance distances

granted if you're upping your 20reppers your going to get stronger as well as up your ability within a 20 rep range,
but IMO your CNS is going to be trained to expect a certain load for lots of reps and theres no way its going to be able to recruit optimum muscle fibres if you throw yourself under maximal loads.

I disagree, when i got up to 92.5/95kg for twenty I set a new 1rm for myself, 15kg over my previous max, after lifting nothing heavier than that max 20 reps for a year.

I think both are going to progress within their own spheres, 20rep guy is going to have **** hot endurance strength and big fcuking thighs

the other guy is going to be getting better at handling heavy weight efficiently

But you have to remember that what started this is the idea that both have the same goal of getting the biggest max possible....

anyhoo correct me if im wrong but were the 20reppers or Widow makers not popularised by Dante or DC or whatever his name was as a way to shock the muscles into growth??

I don't think that's the case, there's a separate twenty rep programme that's been out there for ages, but someone else will have to answer that conclusively for you.

PR or ER

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