The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

eagle eye wrote: »

Last season Eli Manning had a 6.1 yard average with a 61.6% completion rate for 3468 yards with 19 tds and 13 ints over 15 games.
Bortles averaged 7 yards per pass with a 60.2% completion record for 3687 yards with 21 tds and 13 ints.

Also Manning had OBJ for four games, he had Shepard, Marshall and Engram.

Bortles had Marquise Lee, he had an injured Allen Hurns for 10 games and then a bunch of nobodies. Allen Robinson missed the whole year.

One is on the slide and the other has improved. You stick with Bortles if you have the choice.

Cousins is a talented QB and would almost certainly improve the Jags but they have no chance of keeping any of the star players on that defense if they pay him the money. Their best option is to draft a QB this year and again next year if it doesn't work out.

Bortles had good talent around him last year - I wouldn't go calling Leonard Fournette a nobody and they have depth there in Yeldon and Ivory, and he had a better line. Having perhaps the best running game in the league makes life a lot easier for a QB, rather than the 7th-worst Manning had, especially when in the lead very often with the league's second best defense for points allowed (easily #1 when you factor in defensive TDs) and the third highest turnover percentage and second most takeaways total to help field position, as opposed the defense with the 7th most points allowed and ranking bottom 10 in turnovers and turnover percentage. This is why Eli was just 10 pass attempts off most in the league last year (3rd total) despite missing a game and the Giants had the fourth highest pass play ratio of offense, while Bortles wasn't in the top 10 for attempts and the Jags had the lowest pass play ratio in the entire league.

Keelan Cole was also more impressive last year than any Giants player on offense.

The Giants were a complete mess last season - the 2009 Vikings could easily have said the same about a 39/40 year old Brett Favre after his season with the Jets before that, and that is what Manning would basically be doing in Jacksonville, game managing, giving ample experience, and making the big plays when needed under pressure (like some of those third downs late vs the Pats). That said, Eli being 38 vs 36 does change the situation somewhat there. Especially as the Jags don't appear to have any particularly important players up for FA this year or next (bar Lee/Robinson at WR, so keep one and let the other go most likely).

I do agree though if they don't manage to land Cousins and since they passed on Smith that a QB in the first 3-4 rounds (pref. 1st or 2nd if someone falls to them) is something they can't look beyond. But to say a team with a star QB cannot have any star players elsewhere on the field is incorrect - it would make the cap situation a hell of a lot more difficult but that can be managed around and a QB is more important than any other position. By the looks of it, their current cap space for 2018 is actually just over $30mn.

eagle eye wrote: »

How about Bortles made Keelan Cole look better than the average player that he is.

Well then we'll just say that about every WR Manning has, won't we? And how come we've not seen Bortles make all his other options look this good?

Also to add, Keelan Cole had the second highest YAC per catch of any WR or TE with 40+ catches in the entire league.

Also you are now defending Eli by blaming the players around him.

Yeah, I don't subscribe to this "an NFL team is a QB + 52" concept... of course the players around the QB matter. That was actually one of the main points of your last post?

How good was the Jags line is pass protection last season? Not very is the answer

Fifth best as per FO - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol . There was quite a bit noted by journalists and commentators last year about their improvement.

but Bortles still did a decent enough job.

He did, the improved offensive line that got a good deal of attention last year also helped, but getting out of the pocket to scramble is one area Bortles has been underrated in his career.

In the playoffs he was even better and in the AFCCG he was sacked three times which ultimately cost them the game.

Meanwhile, what actuallyt cost them the game was changing their coverages late on which Brady was able to take advantage in a huge way, and the run game getting stuffed forcing Bortles to keep up without a dominating run game, which he wasn't able to do.

Against the Steelers he had 214 passing yards and 1 TD... not bad, but that's not why his team put up 45 points.

Against the Bills... well how quickly some forget. His 88 scrambling yards made much of the difference in the end, but he only had 87 passing all game.

Let's not pretend he had some excellent showing in the playoffs. He did decent, and like much of the season better than was expected for sure, but he was not close to anything special and the team around him is what was winning the Jags games this year (because yes, it is a team sport).

eagle eye wrote: »

In the playoffs he was even better has been turned into excellent by you. In fact a lot of what I say gets hyperbole treatment by you.

It's pointless continuing to try and discuss this with you.

You know, when I initially read your post arguing that Bortles is better than Manning by using statistics I nearly spat out my coffee, but decided to let it slide and take you at face value. Since you now want to go down this route let me ask you, what changed so dramatically in your outlook on the sport since October?

eagle eye wrote: »

Stats can be used to big up or put down anybody. I've seen people pick out specific ones to prove that Tom Brady is not as good as people suggest. You put a few in your post there that could be used to do the same with Aaron Rodgers.

eagle eye wrote: »

Please quit with the stats to back up your argument. I've seen with my own eyes how bad Kaepernick has been.

eagle eye wrote: »

Exactly, Rodgers is far better than any of those three I mentioned ever were. I was just pointing out how useless stats are.

Much like your attempts to write the Jags offensive line from last year as "not very good" (incorrect) and attempting to write off their skill players (also shown incorrect) while in the very next post going on to state "Also you are now defending Eli by blaming the players around him", you have a habit of this.

I sometimes wonder if you're contrarian just for the sake of it, like when you were outright mocking me as "drunk or on drugs" for saying I would have guys like Terrell Owens, Torry Holt or Isaac Bruce getting into the hall of fame ahead of Hines Ward who you weren't willing to entertain as anything but "a lock" for the 2017 class. How's that working out?

So yeah, it is pointless continuing to discuss something with someone so willing to speak out both sides of their mouth on the same subject.

All the best in your future endeavours.

Easily my biggest regret of having a PC and not a console, getting a loan of Madden 2002 off a friend was what got me into the sport. Got quite a shock when the next season started and I found out scrambling for 300 yards every game with Michael Vick isn't what wins games.

So
1) mohammed wilkerson cut by the Jets - wasn't a surprise
2) matt forte retires - not very surprising
3) jonathon stewart released in Carolina - expected as they look to breathe new life into their skill positions and get McCaffrey as the feature work horse..
4) Shazier unlikley to play in 2018 - thats tough on they guy for sure.

agh the post season gets under way

phatkev wrote: »

yeah he missed countless meetings and each time he had a more ridiculous excuse than the last! Bowles straight up benched him for it towards the end of the season. I dont think theres a single Jets fan sorry to see him go!

Would love the Pats to take a shot on him. See if we can convince him to give us 1 more year of the old Wilkerson

phatkev wrote: »

give him a sh1tty 1 year contract and you'll get great play from him. Just make sure your not the team to give him his next big contract!!

Let be honest the Pats only ever pay sh1t contracts :pac: