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Will the 'Troubles' ever happen again in N.Ireland?

2

Comments

  • #52
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »
    Sorry, could you get back to me on this.....



    What is that statement based on?

    The use of the term planters when most of the Ulster British did not come over as part of the plantation. The fact that Republicans will state that the Ulster British presence on this island was an Imperialist ploy.


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    The use of the term planters when most of the Ulster British did not come over as part of the plantation..

    You might point out where in Sinn Fein policy documents "planters" are referred to, or where discrimination/hatred against same is advocated. You might look for any reference to "full blooded gaels" or similar phrase while you're at it.
    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    The fact that Republicans will state that the Ulster British presence on this island was an Imperialist ploy.

    We're talking about Sinn Fein specifically because thats who you referred to, so please don't start to use vague phrases like "Republicans".

    Stating that an "Ulster British presence" was an "imperialist ploy" is rather different than stating that there is a "full blooded.." gaelic race, or that the "Ulster British" must be hated etc.


  • #54
    OS119
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...What is that statement based on?

    if you go to some of the more, err...'interesting' republican websites you'll see comments and attitudes that would not have been out of place during the Balkan wars, or indeed during the crusades.

    you will also, to be strictly fair, see others condemn such comments with great force and more than a little republican ideology, but if anyone were to believe that republicanism has not been 'infected' with a strain of hiberno-catholic-nationalism that views ethnic cleansing as a sensible, and indeed desirable policy, then they'd be sorely disapointed.


  • #55
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »

    We're talking about Sinn Fein specifically because thats who you referred to, so please don't start to use vague phrases like "Republicans".

    Stating that an "Ulster British presence" was an "imperialist ploy" is rather different than stating that there is a "full blooded.." gaelic race, or that the "Ulster British" must be hated etc.

    Anyone who celebrates the terrorist campaign of the Provisional IRA must also hate the Ulster British- that stands to reason and to deny that is as childish as Junder's fib about knowing non-sectarian Orange men.

    Go to Ulster and chat with Sinn Fein activists- yes their public announcements are all very PC and rosy but its a different story on the ground.


  • #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    OS119 wrote: »
    if you go to some of the more, err...'interesting' republican websites you'll see comments and attitudes that would not have been out of place during the Balkan wars, or indeed during the crusades.

    you will also, to be strictly fair, see others condemn such comments with great force and more than a little republican ideology, but if anyone were to believe that republicanism has not been 'infected' with a strain of hiberno-catholic-nationalism that views ethnic cleansing as a sensible, and indeed desirable policy, then they'd be sorely disapointed.

    There are always idiots who seek to attach themselves to ideologies they believe can justify their own pre-existing bigotries. It's rather ridiculous to suggest that such nonsense as described is widely held in the republican community, or within Sinn Fein specifically. Otherwise we can find the lowest denominator supporting any given party and tar them accordingly.


  • #57
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Anyone who celebrates the terrorist campaign of the Provisional IRA must also hate the Ulster British- that stands to reason and to deny that is as childish as Junder's fib about knowing non-sectarian Orange men..

    I supported the PIRA campaign, and I do not "hate the Ulster British". Nor do I have any belief in this "full blooded gael" guff.
    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Go to Ulster and chat with Sinn Fein activists- yes their public announcements are all very PC and rosy but its a different story on the ground.

    So you've no evidence whatsoever with regards Sinn Fein policy then?


  • #58
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I know plenty of orange men who are not sectarian met a few republicans who would love to see the ethnic cleansing of the unionist community

    Im well aware than the Provisional movement wants the Ulster British off the island and that is something that I find unjust to put it mildly- I support the right of self determination for your people, but please be honest how can someone be a member of the Orange Order, who's very reason for being is to oppose Catholicism and to celebrate the taking away of Religious liberty from British Catholics and not be sectarian?

    The battle of the boyne which is the primary thing the orange order celebrates was not a Protestant vrs catholoc war I am afraid however the orange order is a Protestant orginization that by that definition celebrates the reformation, you can not be a roman catholic and celebrate the reformation since the reformation was a rejection of the very ideals that the roman catholic faith is founded on which is why the whole argument about the orange order not letting roman Catholics join is nonsense, you may as well accuse womens group of being sexist for not letting men join. I am not in the orange but I am in a flute band, one that is 130 Years old and I am very much looking forward to the 12th this year, espically as we will be wearing our new uniforms and trust me the only thing on my mind that day will be my sore feet as it's a very very long walk


  • #59
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    junder wrote: »
    The battle of the boyne which is the primary thing the orange order celebrates was not a Protestant vrs catholoc war I am afraid however the orange order is a Protestant orginization that by that definition celebrates the reformation

    The "Glorious Revolution" or "Inglorious coup" sold itself on the basis of King James II's Catholicism. King James II had given religious freedom not only to Roman Catholics but also to puritans which gave his enemies the justification for importing King William. Its victory meant the denial of Religious liberty to British Catholics. Also if the Orange Order was simply there to celebrate Protestantism I wouldnt have any major problems- but the fact is that its primary objective is not that but to oppose Catholicism.


  • #60
    Richard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Those are one-offs. The Union Jack hanging inside a Church is a permanent fixture and inadvertently or deliberately makes the religion a political one. Having grown up in two mixed schools during the troubles I can say that sectarianism was a definite feature - including bald-faced sectarianism towards minors from teachers. At least three times I was approached by a teacher and asked to confirm my religion.

    Drumcree, Holycross and McGuinness becoming Minister for Education were for my fellow Catholic pupils and I 'defensive' in nature, to put it one way in state schools.

    I was not aware of any sectarianism from either of the schools I attended, although I can't speak for all state or majority-Protestant schools. I do remember as a 10-year old being called a "Fenian" (EDIT: By a fellow pupil) because I came to school with a rugby scarf which said "Ireland" on it. I hadn't heard the word before although I did explain to him that it wasn't a football scarf and that Rugby was an all-Ireland sport.

    But I think in return for NI remaining part if the UK, people have to accept that Britishness shouldn't always be expressed in the same way as in England. Let's keep it low-key. In fact there is something "British" about being reserved about nationality. Sticking union flags all over the place or in churches isn't the way to do it.


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  • #61
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    junder wrote: »
    The battle of the boyne which is the primary thing the orange order celebrates was not a Protestant vrs catholoc war I am afraid however the orange order is a Protestant orginization that by that definition celebrates the reformation, you can not be a roman catholic and celebrate the reformation since the reformation was a rejection of the very ideals that the roman catholic faith is founded on which is why the whole argument about the orange order not letting roman Catholics join is nonsense, you may as well accuse womens group of being sexist for not letting men join. I am not in the orange but I am in a flute band, one that is 130 Years old and I am very much looking forward to the 12th this year, especially as we will be wearing our new uniforms and trust me the only thing on my mind that day will be my sore feet as it's a very very long walk
    Why were people kicked out of the order for associating or socialising with catholics? Why is/was there a ban on a protestant married into a catholic family from joining?


  • #62
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Nodin wrote: »
    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Anyone who celebrates the terrorist campaign of the Provisional IRA must also hate the Ulster British- that stands to reason and to deny that is as childish as Junder's fib about knowing non-sectarian Orange men..

    I supported the PIRA campaign, and I do not "hate the Ulster British". Nor do I have any belief in this "full blooded gael" guff.
    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Go to Ulster and chat with Sinn Fein activists- yes their public announcements are all very PC and rosy but its a different story on the ground.

    So you've no evidence whatsoever with regards Sinn Fein policy then?

    If you supported the pira then you supported the murder of people from
    My community, I can only interpret that as hate for my community


  • #63
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    The battle of the boyne which is the primary thing the orange order celebrates was not a Protestant vrs catholoc war I am afraid however the orange order is a Protestant orginization that by that definition celebrates the reformation, you can not be a roman catholic and celebrate the reformation since the reformation was a rejection of the very ideals that the roman catholic faith is founded on which is why the whole argument about the orange order not letting roman Catholics join is nonsense, you may as well accuse womens group of being sexist for not letting men join. I am not in the orange but I am in a flute band, one that is 130 Years old and I am very much looking forward to the 12th this year, especially as we will be wearing our new uniforms and trust me the only thing on my mind that day will be my sore feet as it's a very very long walk
    Why were people kicked out of the order for associating or socialising with catholics? Why is/was there a ban on a protestant married into a catholic family from joining?

    You don't kicked out of the orderfor associating or socialising with Catholics that's a myth, the ban on Marriage like many rules is not always strictly imposed


  • #64
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Im well aware than the Provisional movement wants the Ulster British off the island & that is something that I find unjust to put it mildly.
    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Where did you get that idea?

    The big Provisional mantra during the troubles was 'Brits Out' so maybe that gave people the idea?


  • #65
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The big Provisional mantra during the troubles was 'Brits Out' so maybe that gave people the idea?
    Brits means British soldiers!


  • #66
    blahfckingblah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    junder wrote: »
    If you supported the pira then you supported the murder of people from
    My community, I can only interpret that as hate for my community

    well if you want to march with groups that have had links with loyalist paramilitarys then i can only interpret that as hate for my community


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  • #67
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Brits means British soldiers!

    Now you tell us :confused:

    Well I'm sure that many a Unionist might have thought that it was them they wanted out, them being British and all that.


  • #68
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Brits means British soldiers!
    The biggest myth in all the conflict in Ulster. It does not mean British soldiers. It means the British people who live on Ulster soil.


  • #69
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Now you tell us :confused:

    Well I'm sure that many a Unionist might have thought that it was them they wanted out, them being British and all that.
    :confused::confused:


  • #70
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The biggest myth in all the conflict in Ulster. It does not mean British soldiers. It means the British people who live on Ulster soil.

    The thing is that the Official IRA realized that if the British state withdrew there would be a blood bath and so called off their campaign. The Provisionals choose to continue and even engage in naked sectarian murders such as the Kingsmill massacre; yet they really want to claim that they have no ethnic hatred for the British people of Ulster?


  • #71
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The biggest myth in all the conflict in Ulster. It does not mean British soldiers. It means the British people who live on Ulster soil.


    It was a slogan used by Irish republicans referring to their wish for there to be no British involvement in Ireland, including the British army and political involvement by Britain.People who live in Ulster who claim to be British are also Irish as Ulster is one of four provinces in the country of Ireland.


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  • #72
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    realies wrote: »
    It was a slogan used by Irish republicans referring to their wish for there to be no British involvement in Ireland, including the British army and political involvement by Britain.People who live in Ulster who claim to be British are also Irish as Ulster is one of four provinces in the country of Ireland.

    Though they dont claim to be British- they are British!

    You could also argue that the Southern Irish are British given that they are from the British Isles- I suspect that if King James II had defeated William of Orange that everyone on the island would be happy to call themselves British today.


  • #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    junder wrote: »
    If you supported the pira then you supported the murder of people from
    My community, I can only interpret that as hate for my community

    ...which would be akin to saying that somebody wishing to see the end of the current Syrian regime hated the Syrian people.


  • #74
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    The thing is that the Official IRA realized that if the British state withdrew there would be a blood bath and so called off their campaign. The Provisionals choose to continue and even engage in naked sectarian murders such as the Kingsmill massacre; yet they really want to claim that they have no ethnic hatred for the British people of Ulster?
    Kingsmill was a sectarian murder with no political links. The PIRA disowned and denounced the group who carried it out and they were never heard from again.


  • #75
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Hamlet Or Hecuba wrote: »
    The thing is that the Official IRA realized that if the British state withdrew there would be a blood bath and so called off their campaign. The Provisionals choose to continue and even engage in naked sectarian murders such as the Kingsmill massacre; yet they really want to claim that they have no ethnic hatred for the British people of Ulster?


    That's an untruth,The officials called a ceasefire after killing a young local british soldier home on leave in Derry and also after the bombing in aldershot in response to bloody sunday,The then Dublin leadership of the party also knew that they had no support from northern nationalists as they swanked around Gardiner street talking bull**** while the nationalist people where attacked and murdered by pro british loyalist murder gangs.Since then the OIRA has never had any significant support in the six counties.


  • #76
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Kingsmill was a sectarian murder with no political links. The PIRA disowned and denounced the group who carried it out and they were never heard from again.

    Its come officially however that it was PIRA guns that were used- I think that might have even admitted it at this stage? Read Brendan Hughes's memoirs- he is relatively honest on the actual ethnic violence of the PIRA in 1970s Belfast.


  • #77
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    realies wrote: »
    That's a lie,The officials called a ceasefire after killing a young local british soldier home on leave in Derry and also after the bombing in aldershot in response to bloody sunday,The then Dublin leadership of the party also knew that they had no support from northern nationalists as they swanked around Gardiner street talking bull**** while the nationalist people where attacked and murdered by pro british loyalist murder gangs.Since then the OIRA has never had any significant support in the six counties.

    Untrue- that made up the majority of the Republican movement until their ceasefire. And sorry the fact that they realized what British withdrawal would mean and the danger of an all out inter-communal blood bath played the main role in their decision.


  • #78
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    The thing is that the Official IRA realized that if the British state withdrew there would be a blood bath and so called off their campaign. The Provisionals choose to continue and even engage in naked sectarian murders such as the Kingsmill massacre; yet they really want to claim that they have no ethnic hatred for the British people of Ulster?

    Were it an "ethnic" conflict in the minds of the protagonists it would have been a far more bloody affair.

    It was the opinion of some that there would a greater level of conflict, it was the opinion of others (amongst them the provisional movement) that such would not be the case.

    Have you any evidence to show that the provisional strategy was carried out with a belief that the conflict would increase in scale?


  • #79
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    realies wrote: »
    It was a slogan used by Irish republicans referring to their wish for there to be no British involvement in Ireland, including the British army and political involvement by Britain.People who live in Ulster who claim to be British are also Irish as Ulster is one of four provinces in the country of Ireland.

    But really, it must have been very off putting to have been British (Ulster Unionist) and to have "Brits Out" being chanted at every Republican Rally, surely if you are/were British it must have given you the impression that they wanted you (A Brit) out as they chanted, and surely if the Republicans had any love for their fellow British/Ulstermen they would'nt have chanted Brits Out! for fear of giving them the wrong impression.

    Imagine if Loyalist rallies had chanted "Irish Out" Irish out - Irish out > meaning Irish terrorist groups out of course (and not Irish Nationalists). I am sure there would be many an Irish person who may (correctly) have thought that the Loyalists meant Irish people out!


  • #80
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »
    Were it an "ethnic" conflict in the minds of the protagonists it would have been a far more bloody affair.

    It was the British Army that was standing in the way of an all out blood bath. Something you want to ignore but never the less true.


  • #81
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »
    Have you any evidence to show that the provisional strategy was carried out with a belief that the conflict would increase in scale?

    A yes Im sure once the British government said it was going to withdraw than the Unionist community would simply roll over and discover that they were really Irish in the Irish nationalist sense all along....Yeah right...If they said that tomorrow you would see something a lot more massive than the Loyalist paramilitaries because it would cross all classes and all shades of opinion in the Ulster British community.


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  • #82
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Its come officially however that it was PIRA guns that were used- I think that might have even admitted it at this stage? Read Brendan Hughes's memoirs- he is relatively honest on the actual ethnic violence of the PIRA in 1970s Belfast.
    Where else do guns come from??
    Anyway I think we can all condemn what happened at Kingsmill but it has little to to with the armed struggle.


  • #83
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    It was the British Army that was standing in the way of an all out blood bath. Something you want to ignore but never the less true.

    That doesn't respond to what I asked. You stated -

    The PIRA knew that if the British state withdrew their would be a communal blood bath- and yet they carried out a terrorist campaign for long years to get the British state to do just that

    and
    The thing is that the Official IRA realized that if the British state withdrew there would be a blood bath and so called off their campaign. The Provisionals choose to continue............

    Do you have any evidence to show that the Provisional movement carried on a campaign, thinking that the end result of a British withdrawal would result in a bigger and more violent conflict?

    I'm also awaiting some proof of this "full blooded gael" thing.


  • #84
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Untrue- that made up the majority of the Republican movement until their ceasefire. And sorry the fact that they realized what British withdrawal would mean and the danger of an all out inter-communal blood bath played the main role in their decision.


    Goulding was trying to make the IRA a more political organisation and in particular to end the abstentionist policy. While initially the OIRA was the larger of the two groups, the PIRA quickly gained new recruits, and some former members of the OIRA, to become the largest Republican paramilitary organisation in Ireland

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/organ/oorgan.htm#oira


  • #85
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you have any evidence to show that the Provisional movement carried on a campaign, thinking that the end result of a British withdrawal would result in a bigger and more violent conflict?
    .

    Were the Provisionals retarded? No they werent.

    Were they fighting for British withdrawal? Yes they were.

    What other evidence to do you need?


  • #86
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Were the Provisionals retarded? No they werent.

    Were they fighting for British withdrawal? Yes they were.

    What other evidence to do you need?

    I'm sorry, thats just nonsense. You've made a number of extreme and specific claims thus far and have failed to provide a single piece of evidence to back them up.


  • #87
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    realies wrote: »
    It was a slogan used by Irish republicans referring to their wish for there to be no British involvement in Ireland, including the British army and political involvement by Britain.People who live in Ulster who claim to be British are also Irish as Ulster is one of four provinces in the country of Ireland.
    I disagree and so do hundreds of thousands of other people. We all know about the slogan and its meaning who live up here.


  • #88
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Kingsmill was a sectarian murder with no political links. The PIRA disowned and denounced the group who carried it out and they were never heard from again.
    It recently came out that the group who did it was the PIRA. They just tried to cover it up. But that isn't the real issue to be honest for this thread.


  • #89
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    blahfckingblah wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    If you supported the pira then you supported the murder of people from
    My community, I can only interpret that as hate for my community

    well if you want to march with groups that have had links with loyalist paramilitarys then i can only interpret that as hate for my community

    I dont march with any groups linked to loyalist paramilitary


  • #90
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    Just a reminder, this thread is about whether or not the Troubles could happen again in Northern Ireland. So this should be a rather forward-looking thread; I'm not sure why we are talking about the 1920s.

    I will also add that posters should not attribute beliefs or statements to political parties that are currently in government unless they are willing to back them up.


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  • #91
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,714 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    junder wrote: »
    I am not in the orange but I am in a flute band, one that is 130 Years old and I am very much looking forward to the 12th this year

    Do us a favour and rip down any of those K.A.T. flags on the bonfires. Or give out profusely to anyone you hear singing bad things about the rest of us :p


  • #92
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    junder wrote: »
    I dont march with any groups linked to loyalist paramilitary


    Thats like saying junder ,when marching down the falls road for the easter parade I dont march with republicans.


  • #93
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I disagree and so do hundreds of thousands of other people. We all know about the slogan and its meaning who live up here.


    Most Republicans I know and what I have read and from my time living here, are very inclusive of the loyalist and unionist tradition and know quite well that you aren't going away, and welcome that.


  • #94
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    i do think that ''the troubles'' will happen again.

    now that money has dried up and the north aint so awash with money peoples mindset begin to change.

    but i do hope that it doesnt happen .. we need to move on and resolve things democratically.

    i think people should focus there energies on social & civil injustices up north and in the south.... a 32 republic will happen all in its own good time.. if the majority want it.


    If you dont mind what do you mean by that above in bold ? as in my mind money had nothing to do with it.


  • #95
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    release... money had nothing to do with it?

    open your mind to the reality of northern politics.

    money had a lot to do with it.

    the uk govt to their credit pumped the north with funding for investment to which services and things that really matter for people improved dramatically.

    id even go as far as saying that money was a bargaining tool for both the sinners and dup and for what its worth sdlp up

    once the people seen what peace can bring... which to a majority was a better society and services to live in people no longer had the want for ''war'' or ''trouble''

    on another note have a think about the following

    1. Northern bank job.
    2. Canary Wharf bombing.

    IT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH MONEY ON ALL SIDES ... ESP THE BRITS


    Open my mind to the reality of northern politics are you having a laugh ?

    The present troubles started with basic civil rights,with catholics being treated as second class citizens by the ruling unionist government,For you to come along and say it was all about money is insulting and very naive,You can read this it might help you :mad:

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20troubles&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_Troubles&ei=qWF9T8TnMsiJhQf_y72pDA&usg=AFQjCNEj-L4Fls1GL6NTBjT87WhZRVKCiA

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20troubles&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fhistory%2Frecent%2Ftroubles%2F&ei=qWF9T8TnMsiJhQf_y72pDA&usg=AFQjCNHDmSs-EaEkse59a9dSBvpCFD0w8g

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20troubles&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fnorthernireland%2Fpage%2F0%2C12494%2C1569841%2C00.html&ei=qWF9T8TnMsiJhQf_y72pDA&usg=AFQjCNFp4XgQzNzn5gsqOiTeHSWKiZbRIw

    Everything is not based on or for monetary gain.


  • #96
    OS119
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Kingsmill was a sectarian murder with no political links. The PIRA disowned and denounced the group who carried it out and they were never heard from again.

    except that the weapons used by the 'mysterious group' were used by PIRA before the attack, and then by PIRA after the attack.

    but i'm sure that this is a coincidence, and that in South Armagh people casually leave assualt rifles lying around for others to use on a 'please clean and return after use' basis...

    does PIRA - and its apologists - really believe people are quite that stupid?


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  • #97
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    my apologies realise if i am insulting... and i take back the all about money but i strongly feel that it had a lot to do with money

    yes catholic equality and basic civil was a major issue which was achieved eventually.

    everything is not bad for monetary gain - that my friend is my ideals but unfortunately we live in capitalist world where everybody has a price.. everybody.

    Apoligies accepted no probs :)

    Personally I think your ideals are wrong and not everybody or everything can be bought and bartered for.
    Take the up and coming vote for Independence for Scotland,Economically it looks like suicide for Scotland to try and go it alone,But yet there is a large body of people there who wish it to be and imo good look to them,and yes everybody has a price but what price is freedom :D:D








    This last part is from a film I think :p


  • #98
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    realies wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I dont march with any groups linked to loyalist paramilitary


    Thats like saying junder ,when marching down the falls road for the easter parade I dont march with republicans.

    Niether the band I am a member of nor the lodge we parade with are linked to paramilitary so exactly how is it like your Easter parade analogy?


  • #99
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    realies what i am getting at here is as follows.

    what is of more priority:

    another 30 years of war to try get a 32 republic

    or

    working in a brit occupied and administred country that in reality gives you and your family a decent standard of life

    I'm sure like the rest of us realies does that for themselves:rolleyes: Surely it'st the other way around - we work for the country we live in to keep it going, ie, taxes and community!

    As for NI returning to the bad old days - hopefully it won't happen, maybe the odd 'skirmish' by the would be terrorists just to show they can still flex their oul muscles:( NI is moving on - kicking and screaming by some but still moving with the times!


  • #100
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    maccored wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I am not in the orange but I am in a flute band, one that is 130 Years old and I am very much looking forward to the 12th this year

    Do us a favour and rip down any of those K.A.T. flags on the bonfires. Or give out profusely to anyone you hear singing bad things about the rest of us :p

    Of course I will as long as your prepared to rip Down the KAH flags from the internment bonfires


  • #101
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm sorry, thats just nonsense. You've made a number of extreme and specific claims thus far and have failed to provide a single piece of evidence to back them up.

    The clear statements of Unionists and Loyalists of how they would react in the case of British state withdrawal dont count as evidence? The way that the UUP came together with the DUP during the Anglo-Irish Agreement crisis at a time with the DUP was forming its own armed wing to prepare for full scale civil war?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTbebWrj560

    The idea that the British state withdraws and everybody than would have a group hug which Sinn Fein officially promoted is nonsense.


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