Why do you want/ not want children?

username123 · 21-04-2014 5:58pm

Nymeria wrote: »

I would say that I have seen kind of the opposite to username123's experience amongst people I know. Some of my friends, and my brother and sister who all have kids seem more content and settled than they used to be, and from the looks of it they get great joy out of spending time with their kids and teaching them things........
..........
Mostly, I'm just grateful to live in a time and a place where I can make the choice, many women aren't as lucky.

Just to be clear, I've seen that too, and it rocks, but unfortunately I don't see it often enough. It certainly wouldn't float my boat.

The last bit of your post though, ain't that the truth! I'd say a lot of people still have kids because "that's what you do" though.

ivytwine · 21-04-2014 6:09pm

green_screen wrote: »

There's one thing I find odd, with me. A lot of people (my oh included) who don't want kids seem indifferent to them, which is grand.

But I adore kids. I think they're adorable, even when having tantrums. I love looking after my friends' kids, and really enjoy being around kids.

Is anyone else like that? Loves kids, loves being around them, loves looking after them, but never wants their own? My bf thinks it's really odd that I love kids, even though the thought of having one fills me with dread.

I like kids, but only once they get interesting. Babies are kinda boring [strictly in my opinion] and the idea of pregnancy seems at best, a chore, and at worst, having some creature in you sucking the life out of you [again, in my opinion]. I've never really aww-ed about babies. Puppies and kittens are more my vibe!

I was talking to my mother about that tho, and she said she was never particularly fond of babies til she had one of her own. So who knows.

I've done work experience with young kids and I loved it, although it was exhausting. Loved singing with the kids, playing with them, reading to them and spending time with them. I know I'm ok when it comes to disciplining them as well from my babysitting days. I think I would make a good mother.

But I've so many doubts about having kids. What if I'm not a good mother? It also seems a bit unfair to bring a child into such an unstable world. Whatever you think about global warming, I sometimes get the vibe that this world's best days are behind it, and maybe when I check out at hopefully around the 2070s/2080s, I'll be getting out at the right time.

It's all moot. I'm only 25 and have no man on the horizon. And I would not do it alone. My mother brought me up on her own and did a great job, but it's too much work for one person. I don't have it in me to be frank.

Jerrica · 21-04-2014 7:16pm

I'm 34 and having my first baby in July - I mention my age because I think it's important for why I feel that having children is right for me. I always knew I wanted to have a family, it was just something I felt sure of with great certainty. I stressed quite a bit during my 20s about time marching on and no sign of there being any family getting started, but I'm so, so happy that fate/ the Universe/ whatever decided that it wasn't going to happen until now - I've led an incredibly full life so far, travelled the world, achieved a Postgraduate level of education and had many, many adventures along the way, so now it doesn't seem at all like a sacrifice giving my life over to care for a little human being that my husband and I have made, it's just the next logical journey that we want to take in life.

I've had a dream pregnancy , and the maternal line in my family has a healthy and complication free history of birthing so it's looking good for me too. Chattastrophe said it beautifully - I've got a little person with limitless potential inside me, and I absolutely can't wait to nurture and care for them to see them grow and maybe experience some of the amazing things I've seen and done along the way, then have many more of their own adventures

metaoblivia · 21-04-2014 11:37pm

I'm 32, single, and I think it's most likely that I won't have children. The maternal instinct has never kicked in, and I'm super comfortable with being on my own, so even finding a romantic relationship isn't a huge priority in my life. I know some people want kids and a partner so they won't die alone, or so they'll have someone to take care of them in their elderly years, but I can't quite grasp the logic in that. I think death is a journey we all ultimately take on our own, and there's no guarantee any children you have will want to take care of you or will be able to take care of you. It's just not a plan I'm buying into.

And all of that without getting into the actual pregnancy (which can range from a walk in the park to very difficult to varying shades in between, but you never know until you're actually on the journey), the massive lifestyle change, the amount of money it takes to raise a child, the potential issues you might face if your child isn't healthy. I'm sure no one is ever prepared for these things, and should it happen, I know most people manage. But these are the things that give me pause when I think about having children.

That said, I do actually like children. Not so much babies, but once they start walking and talking, I think they're fascinating little people. I write children's books, and I think children tell the best stories and their imaginations are just limitless. You can sit down and have the most refreshing conversation with a young child. But I also like handing them back to their parents afterwards.

Das Kitty · 22-04-2014 10:53am

It was something I could have taken or left. I met my husband quite young, and he's always wanted kids, so I went with it. If he had been adamant against kids, I probably would have gone with that too. (Although, I might have changed my mind down the road).

I have two kids now. I struggled on the first with the redefinition of my life and myself. It was mostly to do with my own self inflicted expectations. Once I dropped them, I realised I was still me, and the things I want are still important.

Now that I have two, I'm actually enjoying family life so much. I feel like I'm living in a dream. I was not expecting that at all.

So now, I think if I had gone the other way and not had kids, I'm not sure I would be enjoying quite this same level of bliss. But sure, I wouldn't know any different, would I? :pac:

Dutchess · 22-04-2014 4:17pm

I don't want kids because:
- As a general rule, I don't like them. There are exceptions, few and far between.
- The uncertainty: from not knowing if you will get a healthy child to what kind of person they grow up to be. I don't know if I could love unconditionally.
- The planet is overpopulated already.
- Neither my husband nor I are ambitious on the money making front. On our salaries we can provide quite nicely for ourselves, but if we would raise kids on it, our lifestyle would need to take a step back.
- I don't like the idea of pregnancy and being labour for the obvious reasons of discomfort and pain.
- The idea of sleeping only a few hours per night and then getting up to work and then coming home seems like a nightmare. My psychological state is fragile and would deteriorate with lack of sleep.
- I am depression prone, my mother had post natal depression. I'll pass.
- Having to pick family friendly everythings, from holidays to cars to pets....
- The best case scenario seems to be 2 years of screaming baby, terrible 2/3/4's, then the apparently reasonable stage 5-10 and then puberty hits turning me into the hateful bitch only good for financing whatever gadget makes you a social hit at that point, and then they move out. Where did the last 18 years go?
- They are not a guarantee for care and companionship when older. I don't live in the same country as my parents and while I will do what I can, I'm not planning my life around caring for my parents in their old age and I don't think many people are these days. I wouldn't expect that from the children I am never going to have. It would be my choice to have them and they wouldn't owe me anything.
- I would rather spend my money, time and love on lots of animals :-)

To sum it all up: I have seen children be very good, amusing, cute and smart....but it is outweighed easily by everything mentioned above.

Roesy · 22-04-2014 4:46pm

I always wanted kids, I don't know why. I remember having 'the conversation' with my OH in the relatively early stages of our relationship and laying it on the line to him about how much it mattered to me. To be honest he wasn't hugely bothered by having kids, in fact they terrified him

But as our relationship evolved he wanted them as much as I did and we now have an amazing daughter and will think about another in the not too distant future. I think that as a couple she has made us stronger and more focused. She's a lot of work but it's completely worth it for the joy she brings us each and every day. We've made a conscious effort not to lose track of ourselves as individuals and as a couple too though. We are lucky that we have family support that allows us have time together and between us we make sure we each have some time to ourselves.

Malari · 22-04-2014 4:51pm

Das Kitty wrote: »

It was something I could have taken or left. I met my husband quite young, and he's always wanted kids, so I went with it. If he had been adamant against kids, I probably would have gone with that too. (Although, I might have changed my mind down the road).

This was like us, only the other way round. :pac: I knew I didn't want them, he had never really thought about it, but wasn't pushed. Now he is adamant he doesn't want them either. I think if I'd been sure I wanted kids he'd have come around to that as well.

cjmcork · 22-04-2014 7:21pm

I'm amazed that so many ladies here feel the same way I do - I always felt like a bit of a weirdo because I don't want them and certainly won't be having them

sam34 · 22-04-2014 9:01pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Children definitely make life busier but also a bit fuller and less one dimensional.

As a child-free woman, my life is neither empty nor one-dimensional.

Nymeria wrote: »

I'm turning 30 this year and I'm pretty certain that I don't want children - have never felt the urge. I don't really have a 'reason' as such, just something I know in my heart...I suppose the same way that other people just know that they really want them. When I hear other women talking about being broody and stuff, I kind of smile and nod, but don't really understand it. I accept that it must be true for them, but in quite a detached way...like they are speaking a different language or something.

Amen to that. I remember a similar thread somewhere where someone said you might as well ask her why she doesn't want a giraffe as ask her why she doesn't want kids, and it really resonated with me - I simply don't want kids, at all, it's an alien concept to me. I am fully aware that having kids is a life's dream for others, but not for me. (Before anyone starts, I'm not comparing kids to giraffes, just illustrating a point)

I've never felt the desire to have kids, never felt I was/would be missing out by not having them and have never been jealous or even slightly envious of those who have them.

I've seen lots of my family and friends have kids and their lives have all changed- some of them have blossomed, become really happy and grounded, some of them have floundered, become stressed and hassled but ultimately coped, and the odd few have struggled big time and sadly, resented the child(ren).

I'm an aunt and a godmother many times over, and I love those roles. In my own life I was very close to one particular aunt and I'd like to emulate that role-model for my own nieces/nephews. I love them, love spending time with them.... But ultimately I love handing them back and not having the responsibility of them.

My freedom is important to me, my independence is, my financial security is, my peace&quiet is.... I love my lifestyle and am not willing to compromise on that. If others deem me to be selfish because of that, then I reserve the right to deem them equally selfish for having kids because they wanted them!

Lucyfur · 22-04-2014 10:23pm

My God, I'd LOVE a giraffe. How cool would that be?

I always wanted children and from an early age I wanted to work with children with additional needs. Then, quite young, I had a child with special needs and my idea of wanting to work with them quickly flew out the window. The first years were incredibly hard. Juggling a big break up, single parenting, working full time and part time study was hard. But, I wouldn't change a day of it. My son is quite simply, deadly

He has changed my life for the better. I don't think I'd be half the person I am today without having him to strive for.

I'd love more. Time will tell. But if it doesn't happen, I'm happy knowing I'm doing my level best with the one I have and he's blossoming and maturing into a really nice young lad.

rainbow kirby · 22-04-2014 10:49pm

29 and engaged, no kids yet but hoping to have them in the future.

Never really wanted them before my current relationship, things just feel right in this one. The idea of having a little person out there that combines our best bits sounds awesome. I know it will be hard work and expensive, but I look forward to the challenge!

meeeeh · 22-04-2014 11:10pm

sam34 wrote: »

As a child-free woman, my life is neither empty nor one-dimensional.
!

Neither was mine before I had children. That was not the point though. I am incredibly lucky, I have loving, independent family, brilliant partner, great friends, I travelled a lot and have quite a few interests. But I've been also through a serious amount of random **** and stress that I would not wish on anyone. Yet I would go through all of it again if it would mean my children are safe and happy. I'm no martyr, we still enjoy weekends away, walks with dog, we even have a home gym (children a great excuse not to use it). Only holiday destinations are a bit limited because of challenging business situation and because my parents want to see grandkids as much as possible. But nothing in my life has the same depth of feeling as I feel for my partner and kids. I know it could change, I know not everybody is the same (after all for very long time I didn't want kids) and I know incredible heartache could be around the corner. It's like a high stake poker game the risk is higher but so is the reward when you play your cards right.

Lucyfur · 22-04-2014 11:21pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Neither was mine before I had children. That was not the point though. I am incredibly lucky, I have loving, independent family, brilliant partner, great friends, I travelled a lot and have quite a few interests. But I've been also through a serious amount of random **** and stress that I would not wish on anyone. Yet I would go through all of it again if it would mean my children are safe and happy. I'm no martyr, we still enjoy weekends away, walks with dog, we even have a home gym (children a great excuse not to use it). Only holiday destinations are a bit limited because of challenging business situation and because my parents want to see grandkids as much as possible. But nothing in my life has the same depth of feeling as I feel for my partner and kids. I know it could change, I know not everybody is the same (after all for very long time I didn't want kids) and I know incredible heartache could be around the corner. It's like a high stake poker game the risk is higher but so is the reward when you play your cards right.

But surely that's the beauty of everything? The fact that those who chose to not have children have fulfilling lives.....and those who chose to have children also have fulfilling lives? The fact that we're all different?

I have many friends who have made the choice to not have kids. They are happy and content. As are my friends who have kids. Ok maybe these friend can be stressed, but so can my child free friends. And then, obviously, I have friends who are undecided.

I also don't think the age thing matters at all.

meeeeh · 22-04-2014 11:35pm

Lucyfur wrote: »

But surely that's the beauty of everything? The fact that those who chose to not have children have fulfilling lives.....and those who chose to have children also have fulfilling lives? The fact that we're all different?

Maybe I am from Mars or something but where exactly did I say that they don't?But you also can't say every emotion has the same strength. Worrying about your work can be very stressful, worrying about a very sick child is more stressful. Your dog dying is sad, a child dying is sadder. People that can't distinguish between it shouldn't have children (or dogs) and sadly very often they do. Is it really that bad to think that more love makes life fuller in certain way (that doesn't necessary mean better)?

Jerrica · 23-04-2014 7:12am

meeeeh I appreciate that you are speaking from personal experience but your opinions are quite patronising towards the people who chooses to remain childfree. Your post above is essentially saying that people without children cannot feel emotions to the same depths that those with kids can. That's a pretty bold (and outrageously unfair) claim to make and I imagine there's more than a few who would disagree.

Malari · 23-04-2014 7:22am

meeeeh wrote: »

Maybe I am from Mars or something but where exactly did I say that they don't?But you also can't say every emotion has the same strength. Worrying about your work can be very stressful, worrying about a very sick child is more stressful. Your dog dying is sad, a child dying is sadder. People that can't distinguish between it shouldn't have children (or dogs) and sadly very often they do. Is it really that bad to think that more love makes life fuller in certain way (that doesn't necessary mean better)?

Meeeh, I kinda get what you are trying to say. A parent's love for a child is unique. It has to be, or you'd abandon it while at the squalling stage and never have another one. A friend told me yesterday she was constantly worried about her child because she was travelling. That this was a stronger emotion than I felt when my cat was missing. But in my mind it's all relative. The most sad I'll ever feel is when I lose a parent, I would imagine. Is that as bad as losing a child? Maybe not for you, but for me it's the strongest sad emotion I think I could feel.

I actually think if I was in a parallel universe and had an enforced pregnancy and ended up with a child I would no doubt love it and think 'what was I playing at up to now, I should have done this ages ago'! But I'm happy never knowing.

I'm not like that person in a restaurant who refuses to try a new food, but declares they hate it anyway. I'm just saying, that dish might be the most amazing thing I've ever tasted, but on my own plate is the best thing I have ever tasted up to now, and that's good enough for me.

sambuka41 · 23-04-2014 10:39am

I am so glad to hear that other women are freaked out by pregnancy too!!

It genuinely scares me. I am 32 with no kids and no plan to ever have any. I keep waiting for the ol' biological clock to start ticking but nothing has happened so far. It gets more than a little annoying when other women insist on telling you how they never wanted kids and now they have 6 or just wait till your older you'll change your mind :rolleyes:

I actually decided to do my masters thesis on Irish women in menopause who have chosen to be childfree. Its a time that the medical profession and researchers attribute to reproduction and motherhood, but what about the women who have chosen not to have children?? Does their bodily experience not matter? :mad:

Neyite · 23-04-2014 1:30pm

Malari wrote: »

Meeeh, I kinda get what you are trying to say. A parent's love for a child is unique. It has to be, or you'd abandon it while at the squalling stage and never have another one. A friend told me yesterday she was constantly worried about her child because she was travelling. That this was a stronger emotion than I felt when my cat was missing. But in my mind it's all relative. The most sad I'll ever feel is when I lose a parent, I would imagine. Is that as bad as losing a child? Maybe not for you, but for me it's the strongest sad emotion I think I could feel.

I actually think if I was in a parallel universe and had an enforced pregnancy and ended up with a child I would no doubt love it and think 'what was I playing at up to now, I should have done this ages ago'! But I'm happy never knowing.

I'm not like that person in a restaurant who refuses to try a new food, but declares they hate it anyway. I'm just saying, that dish might be the most amazing thing I've ever tasted, but on my own plate is the best thing I have ever tasted up to now, and that's good enough for me.

Excellently put.

I love the bones of my child. I am happier than I have ever been now he is in my life. But that is not to say that if I didnt have him, I would not be happy - of course I would, a different kind of happiness, but happiness nonetheless.

I have a hobby that greatly enriches my life. I love it. But I'd never assume that others are lacking because they have no interest in my hobby. They will find other things to be passionate about that would leave me scratching my head.

I would say that those who choose to be childfree have a higher regard and respect for parenthood and all that it entails because they have considered how it will affect their lives and have chosen not to have children.

For example, I think nursing is an admirable profession. I admire their dedication, the willingness to put up with grumpy, sick, smelly, gross patients and remain professional, the willingness to work nights and weekends, to be calm in the face of abuse or tragedy. I admire them, but I'd never be a nurse myself. Just dont have it in me to do what they do.

Bananatop · 23-04-2014 1:52pm

Jerrica wrote: »

meeeeh I appreciate that you are speaking from personal experience but your opinions are quite patronising towards the people who chooses to remain childfree.

Some posts in this thread are quite patronising towards people who choose to become parents too, maybe it's gotten some peoples' backs up that one side seems to be more accepted than the other in this thread?

There were one or two posts in this thread which were quite disparaging towards people who are parents. I was almost tempted to post saying "I want to have children because I don't want to end up lonely and selfish". Now I know that's pure bull, but if someone did have that opinion, and posted it here, would it be accepted? I personally think that if I had posted that, I would have been hounded out of the thread, yet the disparaging remarks about parents were allowed to pass with little comment.

Lucyfur · 23-04-2014 1:57pm

MOD

If you have a problem with a post, can you please use the ''report post'' function.

Thank you.

eviltwin · 23-04-2014 2:05pm

Bananatop wrote: »

Some posts in this thread are quite patronising towards people who choose to become parents too, maybe it's gotten some peoples' backs up that one side seems to be more accepted than the other in this thread?

There were one or two posts in this thread which were quite disparaging towards people who are parents. I was almost tempted to post saying "I want to have children because I don't want to end up lonely and selfish". Now I know that's pure bull, but if someone did have that opinion, and posted it here, would it be accepted? I personally think that if I had posted that, I would have been hounded out of the thread, yet the disparaging remarks about parents were allowed to pass with little comment.

I find that attitude a lot with my childfree friends. They cannot understand how a child can give me so much joy.

I can kind of understand it tbh, I have babysat for my nieces and nephew in the past and as great as they are its not the same as spending time with your own child. I can see if they don't get that buzz out of their friends or relatives kids they might think they would feel the same with their own.

I've made some major chances to my life since becoming a mother, cut back on work, don't earn as much, don't have as much free time...it would be hell to a lot of people but the payback is so worth it. Its just that you can't really communicate that to other people, they don't get it just as I don't get how not having children is enough for them. But they are happy and that is all that matters.

The only thing that annoys me is people who run children down all the time, call them brats etc. Most kids I find are actually really great people if only they are given the chance.

Bananatop · 23-04-2014 2:20pm

I do think that sometimes stating that you want children and that you want to stay at home to look after them might be seen as a throwback to a time when women didn't have the choice to work outside the home, hence some remarks. We are very lucky compared to our mother and grandmothers in that we now have the choice.

username123 · 23-04-2014 2:33pm

Bananatop wrote: »

I do think that sometimes stating that you want children and that you want to stay at home to look after them might be seen as a throwback to a time when women didn't have the choice to work outside the home, hence some remarks. We are very lucky compared to our mother and grandmothers in that we now have the choice.

Well thats the important thing isnt it?

I know my mother never wanted children but felt she had no other choice.

I think that people get offended too easily in this debate tbh. If I say that I see many parents who have changed in negative ways, who are stressed or seem less happy I am not saying (a) that this is true for all parents or (b) that they dont love their children or (c) that they shouldnt have had children. I am simply stating observational fact based on my own life experiences. I would rather not have a child as I am not maternal anyway, but certainly based on my own personal observations I think there would be a much higher risk that I would end up being one of those stressed, tired, resentful parents....and I personally do not desire that.

But be very clear that this is not a blanket comment that all parents everywhere and forever are shadows of their former selves as a result of having children. But some are - I mean we all know people who are! - and stating this fact is not and should not be offensive - its just a statement of an unhappy fact.

By contrast, a statement that (all) childfree people cannot feel the same depth of emotion as those with children is a subjective generalisation that can never be proven true or false but seems clearly nonsensical.

lazygal · 23-04-2014 3:17pm

There's a streak of vitriol running through some posts though, about children and parents. I hope none of my childfree friends think I'm like that, or my children are annoying. I purposefully don't talk about my children unless asked because I'm fully aware not everyone wants to know about them.
I know posters aren't referring to all parents, but there's some wildly inaccurate and negative views of parents, parenting and children flying about.

username123 · 23-04-2014 3:27pm

lazygal wrote: »

but there's some wildly inaccurate and negative views of parents, parenting and children flying about.

Are people not just relating their own perceptions of things though? I mean, people who have chosen to be childfree are hardly going to say "I want to remain childfree because it looks wonderful and fulfilling and peaceful", obviously they will give reasons that are negative. If I felt positive about having children, Id have children!

But I am perfectly happy for everyone else to want to have children, I respect other peoples choices even if they are different to my own.

lazygal · 23-04-2014 3:34pm

username123 wrote: »

Are people not just relating their own perceptions of things though? I mean, people who have chosen to be childfree are hardly going to say "I want to remain childfree because it looks wonderful and fulfilling and peaceful", obviously they will give reasons that are negative. If I felt positive about having children, Id have children!

But I am perfectly happy for everyone else to want to have children, I respect other peoples choices even if they are different to my own.

Are there not positive reasons for being childfree? Like keeping your independence a bit more, being able suit yourself and such? There's some really negative views of parents, parenting and children given as reasons for not wanting children. I dunno, it seems like someof the childree posters just don't like parents and/or children at all.

username123 · 23-04-2014 3:44pm

lazygal wrote: »

Are there not positive reasons for being childfree? Like keeping your independence a bit more, being able suit yourself and such? There's some really negative views of parents, parenting and children given as reasons for not wanting children. I dunno, it seems like someof the childree posters just don't like parents and/or children at all.

There are yes, but Im sure many parents would view those as negative reasons. Keeping your independence could be seen as selfish as could being able to suit yourself.

I do think there are people (childfree or not) who dont like children, I dont really like them that much until they are able to chat to you properly. I dont find that thought offensive though, I dont see why it is?

lazygal · 23-04-2014 3:49pm

username123 wrote: »

There are yes, but Im sure many parents would view those as negative reasons. Keeping your independence could be seen as selfish as could being able to suit yourself.

I do think there are people (childfree or not) who dont like children, I dont really like them that much until they are able to chat to you properly. I dont find that thought offensive though, I dont see why it is?

I didn't say it was offensive, but I'm not keen on any generalizations about parents, parenting or children. Would many parents view keeping your independence as a negative reason for not having children, do you think? I don't, independence is a very positive thing and something I've tried to retain on some level now that I'm a parent myself. Its one of the reasons I know I'm not full time stay at home parent material, I love the independence my job provides for me.

username123 · 23-04-2014 4:05pm

lazygal wrote: »

I didn't say it was offensive, but I'm not keen on any generalizations about parents, parenting or children. Would many parents view keeping your independence as a negative reason for not having children, do you think? I don't, independence is a very positive thing and something I've tried to retain on some level now that I'm a parent myself. Its one of the reasons I know I'm not full time stay at home parent material, I love the independence my job provides for me.

Sorry I thought your earlier post implied that not liking children or parents was offensive.

Yes, I do think some parents could see it as negative, my independence means that I cannot experience such depth of emotion as a parent

I do understand what you mean about generalisations but is it not ok for people not to like kids or to find parents or parenting boring?

I actually feel like I have to hold back and sugar coat some of how I genuinely feel about parenting/children because I know that some parents will look to take offence.

Here is one such thought:
I find babies gross, the drool, the runny noses, the nappies, etc... I really cringe if someone tries to make me kiss their baby - it makes my skin crawl - genuinely it does. Now I dont say to my friends personally "please keep your baby away I find them disgusting" because I know theyd be offended. But I should be allowed to say it here, on a discussion forum - not pertaining to anyones baby in particular. I cant help this cringey reaction. Im grand generally with bodily gross stuff but the whole saliva fingers and drool thing and then being expected to kiss them - I really really do not like it. I have driven around the corner and stopped the car and vomited out the door having been forced to kiss someones baby - its that visceral a reaction. If people find that offensive Im sorry for them, but I cant help how I feel and I think that I should be allowed to say that - even if some people dont like it.

Why do you want/ not want children?

Comments