Love/Hate (v2) [** Spoilers **]

I would feel that Tommy is at the end of the road too. He is a great character and often across the 4 seasons he was in (he is along with Nidge the only character to be in every episode of it so far) was often shown as the kind hearted one.

But his options are now limited. As said, two things can happen to him:

1. He dies of complications due to his injury. Clearly, the legacy of his death would then become a major storyline with Siobhan perhaps becoming Nidge's greatest threat.

2. Tommy survives his injury and makes a full or at least stable recovery: if he does, then he is in serious trouble. He could remember things and Siobhan is there to fill him in about Nidge. Fran could also inform him if he falls out with Nidge. He could remember the argument about Dano's wife with Nidge and Nidge going for him with Fran's golf club weapon. Then, anything is possible: he could join with Nidge's enemies, become friends with Fran against Nidge (Tommy may know Nidge threw the pipebomb? We know Darren was told but Tommy could know too?). Nidge could strike preemptively on Tommy too and pin the pipebombing on him. What if Tommy knew about Nidge throwing the pipebomb and told Fran and then Nidge later kills Tommy and goes to Fran to say Tommy threw the pipebomb unknown to him that Tommy had already told Fran!!

Whatever way, alive Tommy or dead Tommy will pose serious situations for Nidge. If Nidge had to kill Tommy to save his skin, Nidge is hardly going to feel good about it either and a whole sense of guilt akin to the Darren situation could throw Nidge off the game too despite he grappling with other problems posed by the various people he has tied himself up with.

I'd imagine a lot of the series 2, 3 and 4 issues will be put to bed relatively early. So, Tommy's fate will be resolved early on: he either will be dead, working with the cops (detective Moynihan clearly looks on Tommy a lot differently than how he looks on the others) or joining up with Nidge's enemies.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just watched seasons 1-3, weird experience having started with Season 4 due to my mates' insistence last year on making an occasion of it on Sundays. Really interesting for instance to see Debbie's massive transformation over the 4 seasons, from living with the big man to dying on her own with nobody even really caring about it.

Couple of things bugging me, most of which have slipped my mind but will come back, but chiefly:
Why did Nidge set out to kill Patrick in season 4? Patrick made it abundantly clear several times that like Wayne, he simply follows the money and couldn't give a f*ck about anyone. Nidge repeatedly reminded him about the pipe bomb and his answer was always that he didn't care what his stuff was used for. So why start a war with him? It strikes me that after having been attacked by Nidge in a failed assassination attempt, where Patrick may have been indifferent to the whole thing before, he certainly won't be now.

Strikes me as a case of Nidge actually creating a gigantic problem for himself where there was none initially.

Another more general point, and maybe this is just coming from the point of view of someone having watched the seasons in a dodgy order (S4 first and then S1-3) - does it strike anyone else that the whole tone of the series shifted pretty dramatically as time went on? I was quite taken aback when starting S1 to see the lads all basically chilling very casually in John Boy's apartment, when throughout all of S4 there's a constant tension and air of menace. I'm not sure whether to describe it as seeing the lads graduate from small fish to big fish or simply that all the actors look a little younger in S1, but it struck me that each successive season was a lot darker than the last, with S4 having barely any cheeriness at all between the characters. This isn't in any way a criticism - I maintain the minority view that S4 was absolutely fantastic - but it's interesting that the element of mates having the craic pretty much evaporates completely by S4 when it was a central aspect of S1.

If that trend is to continue, I would predict that S5 will contain some of the most bitter hostilities and betrayals yet. It almost feels like following Darren's death, there aren't any "nice" characters left in terms of being friendly with eachother. Siobán in particular seemed very, very alone throughout S4, and with Fran seemingly descending further into the realm of completely unhinged psychopath, I feel S5 is going to be very, very bleak. Again not in a bad way, just an observation.

I think a lot changed since series 1 with regard to especially where the characters have gone. Darren was in two minds then, Nidge was the happy go lucky 2nd in command and most of the worries were with John Boy and Hughie. Nidge was the star of the show though I feel the first 2 series were more about Darren and the name of the series reflective of Darren's feeling of love and hatred for Rosie and Hughie (and John Boy) respectively.

Series 2 did become darker with Darren's progression into becoming a hitman and ultimately taking out his enemies Stumpy (he feels guilty) and John Boy (he is happy). Nidge's conscience is revealed after his reluctance to throw the pipebomb. Nidge sees John Boy as no longer useful and wants to be the main man himself: he sets out to take his place. The Luke subplot is interesting too. We see a glimpse of Nidge's ruthless streak when he kills Luke and also contemplates killing Darren. Fran is introduced as an ambitious up and coming player who has a violent but pragmatic side.

Series 3 shifted the entire focus again to Nidge's dealings with the IRA. Fran is back and in this, he is a much more lighthearted character than in season 2. Series 3 is very violent with IRA man Git's rape of Siobhan and Tommy's/Darren's bloody killing of him afterwards setting the tone. The story quickly follows with Nidge, Fran, Tommy and Darren trying to cover up what happened with Git before Dano finds out. Dano is introduced overseeing a kneecapping of Ado. As the series progresses, Nidge like John Boy before him gets paranoid and Dano proves a very scary adversary. In a fit of rage, Nidge hits Tommy with Fran's golf club weapon. By the end, Nidge decides to try and buy off the IRA and meets and does a deal with Tony who agrees as long as Darren is sacrificed. Darren is killed in the end, but Nidge's plan fails. It is Lizzie who kills him instead. Also, Darren became more brutal in his role as hitman. The killing of the man and his girlfriend came so easily to him: season 1 or even 2 Darren would not have acted as coldly. By now, Darren didn't care: no Rosie or Mary around to ask him to question his conscience.

Series 4 continued on from series 3 with Nidge feeling guilty and paranoid. Dano still wants Nidge dead and is disobeying Tony. Tommy is in poor health and Nidge's friendship with Fran is being tested. The subplot with the dentist's first off reluctance and then willingness to get involved with Nidge and the gardai's desire to get Nidge also add to things. Ultimately, Nidge survives: Tony tires of Dano's obsession with killing Nidge and has Dano kneecapped and left for dead; the gardai fail to get Nidge due to Tommy's turn for the worst and detective Moynihan's decision to save Tommy rather than get Nidge; Fran kills the dentist and Nidge has Wayne clipped; Lizzie loses the rag with a driver and is in prison for serious assault. the Fran v Noelie storyline also was good and I hope we get more in series 5.

Series 5 sees Nidge free of threats from Dano, but he is aware of how close the gardai got to him and the new threats that may come from Fran, Tommy, Siobhan and the new drug dealer he borrowed from. Lizzie may or may not be back but if she is the IRA threat remains. As usual, by episode 6, Nidge will have multiple challenges to his survival. Some of the series will delve into subplots too and hopefully this Chunk Rogers prowler and his motives will be revealed and we see the Noelie Hughes storyline in some way brought into the Fran and Nidge relationship.

I too liked series 4 a lot. Watching in reverse order can indeed be difficult as a lot of series 4 is based on things that began in series 2 and 3 like the pipebomber, the IRA story and Tommy's situation.

deise08 wrote: »

Ha ha i was very confused reading Patrick. ha ha
paddy the pipe bomb maker!
Nidge taking him on when there really was no need just shows how paranoid he really is.
It all stems from Nidge seeing Fran and Paddy together. They are discussing Paddy getting a pup from Fran, but Nidge's mind is working double time. He's putting 2 and 2 together and coming out with 50!
The three are connected in that
Paddy made the pipe bomb,
Nidge threw the pipe bomb,
Fran's wife was the victim.
We still aren't sure whether Fran is a traveller but he seems to have a lot of business with them if he isn't already one. This too would be adding to Nidge's paranoia.
Although he made the bomb, would Fran forgive paddy and they both stick together against Nidge?
He's so paranoid, Paddy could have sacrificed his own son and Nidge would still not believe him.
Paddy had no beef with anyone, only in Nidge's head!

Really excited about season !!!!!
any date for the first episode?

Paranoia is major theme of course in Love/Hate. We all know how paranoid John Boy got in the end but chose the wrong person to trust in Darren in the end! Nidge was not intending to be paranoid but things conspired against him. From the moment Git is killed, Nidge has a major problem. When the IRA find out it was Nidge's gang killed Git, Nidge is more or less on the run from Dano and is paranoid. Much of seasons 3 and 4 deal with this. Then just as things are ok with the IRA when Nidge and Tony meet up and Dano is killed, Paddy the pipebomb maker comes back and Nidge (fresh from his Dano paranoia) is ultra paranoid again. An attempted hit on the pipebomb man, the clipping of Wayne and a mistrust of Fran all result. With the gardai nearly catching him, Nidge circa season 5 is going to be ultra paranoid.

Fran knows that there were only 4 people who could have thrown the pipe bomb: John Boy, Nidge, Tommy or Darren. He more or less knows John Boy got someone else to do it so that leaves Darren, Tommy and Nidge. I assume Fran would think Darren as he was the hitman. But if Nidge killed the Paddy pipebomb, the immediate blame would go on Nidge (Tommy is too sick to give the order) and Fran would realise Nidge threw the pipebomb. So, Nidge's paranoia would actually provide the opposite to what he would intend.

Fran would assume John Boy gave the order and Darren threw it. Darren threw a pipebomb at the IRA's car as well so there is no reason for Fran to believe anyone other than Darren did it. Nidge is clearly not suspected of this at all by Fran.

PTH2009 wrote: »

Fran is seen praying to a statue of the virgin mary and crying in the recent promo so maybe its something to do with his wifes killing.

Also in the promo nidge says to fran 'its a good day to be alive' would it be good if fran turned around to him and said something about the killing.

This season is going to be good

Yes, this will be a very interesting season. The relationship between Fran and Nidge will be centre stage I'd say plus Fran's conscience will be explored and a lot of the other issues will be tied into the Nidge/Fran situation.

bazermc wrote: »

I havent heard that but reckon it is accurate.

That Immelda May show is starting this Sunday 9.30pm (Love/Hate time slot) and I am guessing that has a at least 6-8 weeks, so that would push L/H back until end October/Start November

Still in time to get the box set out for the xmas market

Imelda May Show would be I'd say 5 weeks and then the Haughey programme 3 weeks and then Love/Hate 5 for the 2nd November.