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Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Hahahhahahaha

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014m077

    From 35 mins on, he keeps shouting people down, he throws a complete wobbler and hangs up because he gets made a fool of over his objections to people mentioning Mandela or Dev.
    Listening to it now.

    I think people need to just let the voters decide. It was a conflict. People know he was in the PIRA. I am a bit surprised he is hated this much in the south though. I knew he was disliked but so many people seem to be against him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Hahahhahahaha

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014m077

    From 35 mins on, he keeps shouting people down, he throws a complete wobbler and hangs up because he gets made a fool of over his objections to people mentioning Mandela or Dev.

    Poor show from O'Toole - it's was him that was talking over the other guy.
    Oh, what a wonderful few weeks are in store - plenty more toys being thrown out of prams from all sides.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    No, it's their choice.

    They were given the options of those who weren't violence (and murder-innocents) minded people, and they chose not to avail of those options.

    I can't understand or explain that choice, but that's the choice they made.

    The same as Bush being elected in America.

    I can give my opinion of the above, which actually differs very little, but since those people won't be representing me or my country, it naturally means less to me.

    However if Bush or Blair or some other warmonger was looking to represent my country, I would be just as vocal re the "no way"....and the fact is that those 2 had a mandate for what they did, unlike the IRA.

    That is not how it sounded by the government of 1997-2001 and 2001-2007. They did alot of canvassing on behalf of Sinn Féin to convince the Unionists.

    The extremsist of Sinn Fein and DUP were NEEDED to be brought in to ensure stability. Fianna Fáil, finally realised that refusal to talk to shinners, whether in public or in private, was not working. (take a bow Bruton)

    Funny, there was once a time, when Fianna Fáil were looking to set up a party in the 6 counties. SF and SDLP were not too keen at the time.

    But, on the basis of your past record, I would attest that this poster is genuine and consistent in his/her views.


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim



    I thought Catholics were equal to Protestant's and discrimination is banned (after all, we are all European's)

    Oh dear! Catholics have made progress but there is still a long way to go before Protestant privilege has been completely abolished.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    crucamim wrote: »
    Oh dear! Catholics have made progress but there is still a long way to go before Protestant privilege has been completely abolished.
    What do you mean?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I think i vote for him just for the international headlines

    "Former terrs commander(IRA) voted prez of Ireland"

    let them figure it out.


    It's that kind of attitude that has this country where it is. A vote is an important right, not something to be thrown away to see the 'international headlines'. If people voted for the best people rather than a party, a personality or a surname we could possibly become a first world country again someday.

    Ireland gets enough negative International headlines without being looked at as a quasi paramilitary state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What do you mean?

    He means he is a troll :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Listening to it now.

    I think people need to just let the voters decide. It was a conflict. People know he was in the PIRA. I am a bit surprised he is hated this much in the south though. I knew he was disliked but so many people seem to be against him.

    ah Martin McGuinness is grumpy, with a face only a mother could love, so how Gerry Adams (not necessarily the man of more substance) gets all the kudos.

    Yes, he is disliked, hated, well we shall see. Its no small wonder that the parties are terrified of at least the threat McGuinness can cause. Mitchell was very quite lately, but this will spring him to life now

    There is word of allegations, not necessarily well founded raised by Mitchell (no surprise there) that a recent roll was high jacked by Shinner's that was very positive about MMG (you see VD this is why I don't give polls the time of day and neither should other people). Whether its true or not, don't go making allegations that you can't prove.

    Ah, good old Presidential Elections, they really bring out the worse in some Irish People.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    You are clearly on some sort of mission to connect MMG with every atrocity the IRA committed yet the man himself condemned a lot of wrongs the organisation committed.

    FFS he was a senior member.

    Martin Borman was unduly tarred by association with the Nazi party etc.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim



    "He killed many people either directly or indirectly."

    Can you prove that?

    "he has hated three governments: Stormont, Westminster and Dublin."

    What could be wrong with that?

    "He has not exactly been the greatest bridge-builder with the Protestant community"

    Hear, hear. I hope that you are not passing judgement on an Northern Ireland Catholic's behaviour towards his oppressors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    ah Martin McGuinness is grumpy, with a face only a mother could love, so how Gerry Adams (not necessarily the man of more substance) gets all the kudos.

    Yes, he is disliked, hated, well we shall see. Its no small wonder that the parties are terrified of at least the threat McGuinness can cause. Mitchell was very quite lately, but this will spring him to life now

    There is word of allegations, not necessarily well founded raised by Mitchell (no surprise there) that a recent roll was high jacked by Shinner's that was very positive about MMG (you see VD this is why I don't give polls the time of day and neither should other people). Whether its true or not, don't go making allegations that you can't prove.

    Ah, good old Presidential Elections, they really bring out the worse in some Irish People.

    Although as a legislator I am opposed to Mitchell's euro-weenyism (as Michael Graham would put it) but as a representative of Ireland in a figurehead diplomatic factol position I, personally, am broadly supportive. Some people say he is too old. Perhaps, although he at least looks the part. I might vote for Mary Davis in the hope of a Mary hat-trick. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    crucamim wrote: »

    "He killed many people either directly or indirectly."

    Can you prove that?

    "he has hated three governments: Stormont, Westminster and Dublin."

    What could be wrong with that?

    "He has not exactly been the greatest bridge-builder with the Protestant community"

    Hear, hear. I hope that you are not passing judgement on an Northern Ireland Catholic's behaviour towards his oppressors.

    1. Yup
    2. Everything. Even you as a Northern Ireland nationalist should take exception at someone who hates your state - you have problems with him abandoning his office to run for the presidency in another country so that's small potatoes compared to his long-standing feelings about the existence of NI in the first place.
    3. Not in this context, patently. I was talking about diplomacy (or lack thereof), and specifically how it would relate to his hypothetical performance in the arras. Your peddling of partisan politics, sectarianism and bigotry is your own business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Gregory Campbell was spot on with what he said. He has left that behind and move on. He doesn't need congratulated for it. And the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland have two different systems of government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim



    No, you refused to respond to any of the posters that called you out on your general comments and failed to back any of them up with evidence.

    You are clearly on some sort of mission to connect MMG with every atrocity the IRA committed yet the man himself condemned a lot of wrongs the organisation committed.

    Don't let that get in the way of your little crusade though Liam, you had plenty of time to respond to mine and others requests for evidence of your accusations.

    You also have a habit of accusing posters of hyperbole and deflection, I chuckled because you and another well known British poster are the biggest culprits of them.

    Please, why get annoyed? What does it matter what Liam Byrne thinks or says about Martin McGuinness. There is a Scottish Gaelic proverb which translates into English as "The moon is none the worse for the cat cursing it."

    If this person who posts under the name "Liam Byrne" were to suddenly change his mind and write "Martin McGuinness is the greatest thing since sliced pan and the Pope should declare him the first living saint", it would not solve all or any of the problems of the oppressed Catholics of Northern Ireland or of our great leader, Martin McGuinness. What the people of Eire think of us is largely irrelevant. What they say about us is a little bit more relevant as being insulted by Eirefolk is an excellent way of becoming popular among other Catholics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    crucamim wrote: »
    Please, why get annoyed? What does it matter what Liam Byrne thinks or says about Martin McGuinness. There is a Scottish Gaelic proverb which translates into English as "The moon is none the worse for the cat cursing it."

    If this person who posts under the name "Liam Byrne" were to suddenly change his mind and write "Martin McGuinness is the greatest thing since sliced pan and the Pope should declare him the first living saint", it would not solve all or any of the problems of the oppressed Catholics of Northern Ireland or of our great leader, Martin McGuinness. What the people of Eire think of us is largely irrelevant. What they say about us is a little bit more relevant as being insulted by Eirefolk is an excellent way of becoming popular among other Catholics.

    Wha?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    crucamim wrote: »

    Your peddling of partisan politics, sectarianism and bigotry is your own business.

    Thank you. If only all other natives of Eire were as well mannered as you. Perhaps, they will follow your example.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    crucamim wrote: »
    Please, why get annoyed? What does it matter what Liam Byrne thinks or says about Martin McGuinness. There is a Scottish Gaelic proverb which translates into English as "The moon is none the worse for the cat cursing it."

    If this person who posts under the name "Liam Byrne" were to suddenly change his mind and write "Martin McGuinness is the greatest thing since sliced pan and the Pope should declare him the first living saint", it would not solve all or any of the problems of the oppressed Catholics of Northern Ireland or of our great leader, Martin McGuinness. What the people of Eire think of us is largely irrelevant. What they say about us is a little bit more relevant as being insulted by Eirefolk is an excellent way of becoming popular among other Catholics.

    Liam is so enamoured with what he himself has to say that he isn't even reading all the arguments, he puts people on ignore and pretends to understand what is going on :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    crucamim wrote: »
    Please, why get annoyed? What does it matter what Liam Byrne thinks or says about Martin McGuinness. There is a Scottish Gaelic proverb which translates into English as "The moon is none the worse for the cat cursing it."

    If this person who posts under the name "Liam Byrne" were to suddenly change his mind and write "Martin McGuinness is the greatest thing since sliced pan and the Pope should declare him the first living saint", it would not solve all or any of the problems of the oppressed Catholics of Northern Ireland or of our great leader, Martin McGuinness. What the people of Eire think of us is largely irrelevant. What they say about us is a little bit more relevant as being insulted by Eirefolk is an excellent way of becoming popular among other Catholics.

    Someone has time-travelled from the 1700s.

    Catholic Emancipation happened a long time ago. We have the great Daniel O'Connell to thank for that, oh, and he didn't need violence to achieve it.

    A question for you, how does the great leader Martin McGuinness compared to the dear leader Kim Jong Il or the great leader Kim Il Sung. Surely they must be further up the pantheon of greatness as they are responsible for more deaths than Mr. McGuinness?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    crucamim wrote: »
    There is a Scottish Gaelic proverb which translates into English as "The moon is none the worse for the cat cursing it."

    Crap, now I have a mental image of McGuinness mooning us! :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    McGuinness is good for you, and he will win the elections.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    dlofnep wrote: »
    McGuinness is good for you, and he will win the elections.

    He's contesting more than one election? :rolleyes:

    I suppose 'vote early vote often' will benefit him in that case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    This, in my opinion, is probably the most astonishing development in Irish politics since the Good Friday Agreement. The media have gone totally ape-sh*t about this.
    Great publicity for Sinn Fein and the Republican Movement. All the dubious fund raising and financial transactions could not buy this. Use of phrases like "West Brit" will do him no good, however, he has been solely politically active for the past 30 years and has been a major contributor to Peace in the North.
    He will be certainly getting my vote.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    And the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland have two different systems of government.

    Perhaps you mean Ireland and the Occupied Gerrymandered Six County Settler-Colonial Statelet?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    crucamim wrote: »
    it would not solve all or any of the problems of the oppressed Catholics of Northern Ireland or of our great leader, Martin McGuinness. What the people of Eire think of us is largely irrelevant. What they say about us is a little bit more relevant as being insulted by Eirefolk is an excellent way of becoming popular among other Catholics.


    One word. Five letters. First letter 't', last letter "l'....:rolleyes:

    Anybody who refers to the 26 county state as Éire when speaking English can only be British, and invariably of the most zealous anti-Irish sort.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Perhaps you mean Ireland and the Occupied Gerrymandered Six County Settler-Colonial Statelet?
    No. I mean the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Martin isn't running to be the president of Northern Ireland. So that is why people in the Irish Republic will have much more interest in the actual result and care about the actual result of the vote. People in N.I are always going to be interested in the discussion when it comes to Sinn Fein.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. I mean the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Martin isn't running to be the president of Northern Ireland. So that is why people in the Irish Republic will have much more interest in the actual result and care about the actual result of the vote. People in N.I are always going to be interested in the discussion when it comes to Sinn Fein.

    Ah, so you do mean the state named Ireland, and recognised internationally as Ireland. But of course you know this, and that the 'Irish Republic' was a unilaterally declared Irish state which was declared in Easter 1916 and which remains unfilled at present. But never mind your avoidance of the correct name of the state, you're so petty that you deliberately avoid using the correct description of the state - Republic of Ireland - because your purpose in using "Irish Republic" is to insult.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Ah, so you do mean the state named Ireland, and recognised internationally as Ireland. But of course you know this, and that the 'Irish Republic' was a unilaterally declared Irish state which was declared in Easter 1916 and which remains unfilled at present. But never mind your avoidance of the correct name of the state, you're so petty that you deliberately avoid using the correct description of the state - Republic of Ireland - because your purpose in using "Irish Republic" is to insult.
    Nope. I think this argument is silly and don't want to get involved in it. I name it the Irish Republic in a loving term. I also name it as Ireland or sometimes the Republic of Ireland. I actually do name that state by its legal name. Unlike some when it comes to Northern Ireland who never name it by its proper title.

    But this going completely off topic. Lets agree to disagree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Ah, so you do mean the state named Ireland, and recognised internationally as Ireland. But of course you know this, and that the 'Irish Republic' was a unilaterally declared Irish state which was declared in Easter 1916 and which remains unfilled at present. But never mind your avoidance of the correct name of the state, you're so petty that you deliberately avoid using the correct description of the state - Republic of Ireland - because your purpose in using "Irish Republic" is to insult.

    He does it all the time. You should see the rubbish he comes out with on Politics.ie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    He does it all the time. You should see the rubbish he comes out with on Politics.ie
    What his name over there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    What his name over there?
    I don't post on politics ie.

    Anyway, has Martin Mcguinness done any radio interviews today. Would be interesting to hear his answers to some of these accusations.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    What his name over there?


    KeithM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I don't post on politics ie.

    Anyway, has Martin Mcguinness done any radio interviews today. Would be interesting to hear his answers to some of these accusations.
    What accusations? Stuff which he hasnt addressed a 100 times before?


    Out on interest what mural is that in your sig, its too small to read.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 myself69




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    myself69 wrote: »
    I don't have an account on politics ie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    dlofnep wrote: »
    McGuinness is good for you, and he will win the elections.
    But there will be a terrible stink about the place the morning after. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Liam is so enamoured with what he himself has to say that he isn't even reading all the arguments, he puts people on ignore and pretends to understand what is going on :)

    That is his business. At least he does not interfere in the internal politics of Northern Ireland. He is merely opposing Martin McGuinness interfering in the internal politics of Eire.

    P.S. I prefer another poster to ignore me rather than insult me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Godge wrote: »

    Catholic Emancipation happened a long time ago.

    Not in Northern Ireland - and still not completed in Northern Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    crucamim wrote: »
    That is his business. At least he does not interfere in the internal politics of Northern Ireland. He is merely opposing Martin McGuinness interfering in the internal politics of Eire.

    P.S. I prefer another poster to ignore me rather than insult me.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Eire.

    You seem to enjoy using the Irish language here. Please feel free to use the dictionary link which will allow you use the English version here in future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    One word. Five letters. First letter 't', last letter "l'....:rolleyes:

    Anybody who refers to the 26 county state as Éire when speaking English can only be British, and invariably of the most zealous anti-Irish sort.

    What is wrong with being British? Yes, I am British. I was born into a tribe which had been expelled from the Irish nation in 1921. I have accepted the verdict of history.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 329 ✭✭vellocet


    crucamim wrote: »
    What is wrong with being British? Yes, I am British. I was born into a tribe which had been expelled from the Irish nation in 1921. I have accepted the verdict of history.

    Now I know you area at it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 myself69


    vellocet wrote: »
    Now I know you area at it.

    ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. I mean the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. Martin isn't running to be the president of Northern Ireland. So that is why people in the Irish Republic will have much more interest in the actual result and care about the actual result of the vote. People in N.I are always going to be interested in the discussion when it comes to Sinn Fein.

    Do you follow every Catholic/Republican related thread around boards.ie?

    You were in AH posting tripe about London Derry,I see you posting crap in the Celtic thread in the soccer forum too.

    As a matter of interest are you even eligible to vote in the Irish Presidential Election?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 329 ✭✭vellocet


    myself69 wrote: »
    ?

    He is on the wind up. Pulling our pissers. Acting the maggot. On a fishing trip. Whatever you want to call it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭Foghladh


    whycliff wrote: »
    Do you follow every Catholic/Republican related thread around boards.ie?

    You were in AH posting tripe about London Derry,I see you posting crap in the Celtic thread in the soccer forum too.

    As a matter of interest are you even eligible to vote in the Irish Presidential Election?


    What the frick does that have to do with anything?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.

    Finatn is a millimetre from hanging up again.
    TBH, Kiberd is a little pain in the bollix, he's not chairing the discussion proerly at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    gambiaman wrote: »
    Finatn is a millimetre from hanging up again.
    TBH, Kiberd is a little pain in the bollix, he's not chairing the discussion proerly at all.


    Fintan is not coming across very well at all. He is acting like a little school boy running to teacher. Eamons points regarding Prince charles, Bush, Blair etc are all true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Martina Devlin: Electing Martin McGuinness as President would be a fitting acknowledgement of his crucial role in the peace process
    China has shut down its equivalent of the 'X Factor' because the state authorities take issue with the democratic concept of allowing the public to vote for favourite candidates.

    Doesn't that have a familiar ring. Judging by some of the reaction to Martin McGuinness's name going on the Aras ballot, you get the distinct impression a number of individuals in the Irish Republic think this is an example of too much democracy as well.

    During the Troubles, people in the 26 Counties often said: "Why can't they just get along in the North? Why can't they sit down together and thrash out their problems?" Enter McGuinness.

    He was among those who coaxed people from radically different perspectives into doing exactly that. He helped to engineer peace. Not single-handedly -- there were many architects, but he held a pivotal leadership position and the role he played mattered.

    To keep peace on track, he entered a groundbreaking, power-sharing government, forming constructive working relationships with first Ian Paisley and then Peter Robinson, once regarded as his political polar opposites. Nobody judged him an inappropriate Deputy First Minister in the Northern Executive. Yet as soon as his name was linked with the Irish presidency, he grew horns and cloven hooves overnight.

    The double standards surrounding his entry into the race are breathtaking. (Subs: standalone par please)

    Up there has come down here and some of those who should know better are reacting with horror -- and hypocrisy. They are affronted he won't stay in his box in that place apart, this man who admits his IRA past -- although, granted, not with full disclosure -- and whose record shows his evolution as someone who worked hard for peace.

    Some call McGuinness a terrorist. If he counts as one, then so do the agents of the British state, because terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation to produce political aims.

    Those 30 years of the Troubles were a war, and warfare is not a cocktail party -- it is brutish. Indefensible acts take place during it. But I notice that many of those expressing opinions on the North and its citizens, and why they turned out as they did, hardly ever crossed the border. They are experts about a place they never inconvenienced themselves to get to know.

    I grew up in the North during several decades of the Troubles, and I am content that the generation behind me has encountered only peace. But I haven't forgotten the discrimination, the two-tier society: I observed it all around me, I experienced it myself.

    I wish the civil rights movement could have brought about reform, but it was not effective -- unfortunately, I don't believe advances would have happened without the IRA campaign. Bloodshed alone achieves nothing worthwhile, but it forced the main players to the negotiating table where progress was achieved.

    Some say the price was too high, with so many dead and maimed. I say the North is a fair society now with a viable future.

    McGuinness had a hand in this evolution. If those hands once held an AK-47, that is part and parcel of what made him effective as a peacemaker. It gave him influence where he needed to use it.

    We must believe in people's capacity for change. For their own sake as well as for ours. I believe in Martin McGuinness's: his track record proves it.

    However, I would urge him to be more open about his IRA involvement, on which he is elusive. I suspect a surprising number of people will understand, if not condone, his young man's choice of violence -- tempered by his subsequent renunciation of it.

    Let's remember that the North was no normal place and ordinary rules did not apply. It was a society in which the aberrant became commonplace. Armed police, random checkpoints, armoured vehicles on suburban streets and a foreign army were common sights.

    Our house was raided just before dawn for no apparent reason, as others were. Does that verb 'raided' convey the fright, the intimidation, the sense of injustice and bullyboy trespass?

    It can't possibly communicate the muddy boots on carpets, the mattresses pulled from bed frames, the cupboards ransacked, the boy-soldiers staring at my mother and sister's bodies through their nightdresses -- the officer in charge wouldn't allow them to fetch dressing gowns, another step in the dehumanisation process.

    The RUC could not be trusted if your background was nationalist or even just Catholic, and Sinn Fein and the IRA filled the vacuum.

    Is McGuinness's past a barrier to the presidency? On the contrary, I regard it as a key element in an inspiring narrative. Here is someone who set down his gun and actively embraced democracy, showing his community how negotiation was a more effective tool than weapons.

    He continues to prod his supporters forward, for instance when he urged them to give information to the police about Constable Ronan Kerr's murder. Nor does he confine himself to republican oratory: in 2009 he called those who murdered two soldiers and a police office "traitors to Ireland".

    He has made mistakes, however. It was an error not to stand shoulder to shoulder with Peter Robinson at Islandbridge during Queen Elizabeth's visit: that would have been presidential behaviour.

    Still, he has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to democracy and we should not take it lightly -- especially as democracy was suspended in the North for a considerable period (internment is only one example).

    That aptitude for seeing the broader picture enabled him to make the transition from paramilitary to politician. I believe he has the capacity to make yet another transition, this time to president.

    It doesn't hurt that he is a self-made man -- a useful example in recessionary times. Nor that he has volunteered to accept the average industrial wage of just under €36,000, leaving €214,000 plus in the Exchequer. Symbolism matters.

    There is concern about the international message his election would communicate. It's up to us to explain that we regard him as someone who has done more to reconcile Orange and Green than any other candidate, should enough of us share this conviction and vote accordingly.

    And in case you're still wondering, my mind is made up. My number one preference is going to Martin McGuinness on October 27.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-devlin/martina-devlin-electing-martin-mcguinness-as-president-would-be-a-fitting-acknowledgement-of-his-crucial-role-in-the-peace-process-2884394.html

    I thought that was n interesting piece, I think a lot of people have that approach when it comes to MMG. Lots of people have said to me that while they would never vote SF they will be voting for MMG because of his record as a peacemaker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Eamon Dunphy & Fintin O' toole are having a debate on the radio at 12:00 on Newstalk 106 - 108fm. I heard Eamon on the radio yesterday and I thought he made some very good points regarding Martins past & election campaign.

    Eamon Dunphy v Fintan O'Toole

    I am not sure which of those I hate most.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    crucamim wrote: »
    Eamon Dunphy v Fintan O'Toole

    I am not sure which of those I hate most.
    Dunphy once said Gerrard is a nothing player. Why anyone would listen to him bar the entertainment factor is beyond me.


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