Can i ask a question that is bothering me for some time now.

Everyone complains about the price of the first years membership for the midlands. €600 for the first year then €295 per year after that. For that you get;

• 10 - 25 mtr pistol range.
• 25 mtr zeroing range.
• 50 mtr benchrest/PR60 range
• 50 mtr plinking range.
• 100 - 300 mtr fullbore range - sheltered.
• 100 - 600 yard fullbore range.
• 800 - 1,200 yard range.
• Clay range with multiple traps.

And that's without going into the facilities such as clubhouse, new clubhouse, armoury, etc.

So my question is what are the prices of other ranges. Both for the first year, and then per year after that. And for that price what do you get in terms of ranges, facilities, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i'm always a little bemused by people whinging about the initial years fee, when every year after that is cheap, and considering the midlands is the biggest range in the country and no other range can match it for size, facilities, etc i wonder how people think this can be built, and mantained on €50 per year.

I know lads that oay in excess of €200 per year for a gun club. Yet they complain about €295 per yea for the midlands.

Yes the €600 is not a small amount of money, especially in these times. However when you consider that membership to the range can get you a license for pretty much any caliber firearm you can see why they need to make sure that people are not joining simply to get a license, then feck off never to be seen again.


Also the midlands put their prices up for all to see. I have yet to hear the price, other than the one mentioned above, for any other range, and what facilities or ranges they supply/provide for that fee.

My uncle shoots in one of my old clubs in Dublin. I left it some time back. Because of where it is, and the price of land, etc the membership fees were in the region of €800 per year, every year. For 50 - 100 yard rimfire. It wasn't even centrefire rated.

I can understand people picking a range for the disciplines it covers. For example (and i have no idea of prices so these are only example figures). You live in Kildare. You only shoot Gallery & pistol. Why would you join the midlands. It does not cater specifically to your needs. So go elsewhere, and join a range that does. You find a local range that charges €200 for the first year, and €150 for every year after that. You are now sorted. However do not start complaining about another range that charges €295 per year when the range has vastly more overheads, caters more specifically to a different discipline, and is twice the travel time. I just don't get it. It's like me complaining about, say, Harbour House (only an example). I've never been there, i don't favour the disciplines they cater for so what business have i got complaining about their prices?

I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm not even saying people cannot complain or moan it's part and parcel of life. However if you are going to complain about one range all the time why not compare it to others, and see if the €295 per year is worth it for what you want.

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i also felt like a complete outsider. im not saying that people were not helpful when i needed it cause they are very helpful but it wasnt until i really started to get into long range shooting that i felt like part of the club.

I see this every week i'm over. New lads, and the same lads that come in, shoot, keep to themselves, and leave. I make every effort to be friendly as do most other lads, but some people are happy just shooting, and minding their own.

As said before with a range with nearly 600 members the chances are seeing the same faces every week are slim to none. I meet a lad only a month ago, and asked was he a new member. Said he was a member for 7 years. I'd never seen him before.

My point being don't be shy. I have often approached lads out of curiosity about their rifle/shooting, and got talking to them. Once they start talking they are fine. I'm not saying it's all sunshine and lollypops. Lads will just want to go shoot their rifle, and go home. If that's what they want they are free to do this. However if you make no effort to try and talk to other lads on the range of course you are going to feel "left out". The reason you felt at ease with all the F-Class lads is because we are a small enough number, and meet every week so we have to get on with each other, and outside the range we make contact to talk technique, wind, bullets, rounds, etc, etc.

I brought a friend to the range with me (which is never a problem once they have a licence and insurance which is great) but on our drive home he commented that there seemed to be a kind of "clique" in the club. i guess he was kind of right. there is a few lads that shoot clays and a few lads thats use the 3P range but you seldom see new lads with them.

Again there people that shoot a discipline, and only that discipline. If you spent years shooting the same style with the same people you'd be more comfortable with them than someone else.

However the word clique is a bit "off". I met many a lad, and a good few from Boards by going over, and talking to them, and them me. Yourself included. I have never seen anyone approach another on the range, and be told to "go away" or to not be spoken to. I also see lads that could be watching the lads trainging for F-Class, PR60, BR, and when i ask them why they don't go up for a look at the guns, talk to the lads, they say it's not important or they don't want to disturb them. That's crap. The lads would never have an issue with anyone talking to them. Obviously you don't start when they are shooting, but you know what i mean.

I honestly have no problem with the 600 euro joining fee but i think were the club falls down is yes it has loads of facilities but it is too focused on long range shooting.

The NRAI bases itself out of the midlands, and the range is primarily a long range target club. So of course the focus is on F-Class/long range. The other side of that is what you see. 5 ranges for F-Class/medium, and long range shooting. They stand out more than the smaller ranges, and require a lot more effort to run, and organise than the 50mtr benchrest range or, 25 mtr pistol range.

yes it has a 25m pistol range but from what i seen it is only used by a few members. i know the club like most was hit badly buy the handgun ban but what steps are the club making to promote pistol shooting now? yes the club has clay ranges but what is the club doing to promote the use of them.

The range built the pistol range to accommodate their members that wanted to shoot pistol. After 2008 the majority of the regular members lost their pistols. As the range is not primarily a pistol range the effects were more evident than another range that deals almost exclusively with pistols. A few comps have been held, and new target system, baffles, etc put in place. However turn out to these events were low. So let me ask you this. If you hald 6 comps, and the turn out was 10 or less for each one would you continue to hold events running the risk that no one turns up or would you focus on other disciplines that still have the numbers to make it functional?

The shotgun range is a work in progress. Due to the extensive building work on the Creedmoor range the shotgun range took a back seat. Talking as someone that use to shoot clays every weekend i can tell you that every weekend was packed with clay shooters, and there is a new shotgun range being developed at the moment with it's own clubhouse, etc. Again it's all money. Because you don't see anything happening doe not mean it is not happening. Every range demands from a few thousand to tens of thousands to build, and run. With 8+ ranges that's alot, and some things have to take prioity over others.

the club is making fantastic progress with long range shooting with the introduction of the development team, pilot loading scheme and novice days. I'm not trying to knock the club i just think it is very one dementional and that its not used to is full potential. If they put the same amount of time into all its ranges it would be a more attractive club.

And how would you accomplish this? Between regular volunteers, and lads that turn up now, and then it is hard to try and get everything done, and keep everyone happy. It's easy to see faults in a range when the understanding behind how it's run is not known.I volunteered my time whenever i can, and i'd go over days with a goal in mind. However when i get there something else, say grass cutting, needs done. That's a full day of uninterrupted cutting, and you realise you never got around to doing what you wanted.

Also as i said at the start of this. I notice the focus is still fixed on the midlands. If other ranges are cheaper, and beter why has no one responded? Here is another one for you. Reverse the roles. If i live near Hilltop, Harbour house, Ballyhoura, etc and want to do long range shooting. What are those clubs/ranges doing to promote it? Where do their members go if they want to try it? See, it's easy to pick holes when a range does not offer everything every shooter wants. Frankly i don't any range that can offer everything. Unless they are funded by the Euromillions i don't think it is possible.

I suppose my argument is this. if joe blogs lived close to the range and had no interest in long range shooting would he get the same attention as a member who wants to get into long range shooting.

The midlands has many rimfire, and BR shooters. Infact it sent members over to the Europeans the last year or two. Again you don't see it, but it does happen.

Also a brand new BR range was built for them, and to accommodate PR60/3P shooting even though the number that do it regularly is small. New tables, bays, target system, etc.What more do you think they need? I'm not nit picking here, but the same can be said of every range. Do they accommodate what their members want in every discipline or do they cater for as many as possible while focusing on one that is the largest.

I just want to to stress the point i am not trying to slate the club i just think it could be so so much more than it is.If they were activily trying to promote pistol shooting or looking at bringing in gallery shooting i would probably still be a member.

6 months to a year ago when you were into long range shooting and had no real interest in Gallery or pistol shooting the range fulfilled your needs. Now that you have changed disciplines it does not fulfill them all. You moved to a range that does. That's fair enough.

My point in all this discussion is this. No range, including the midlands, can accommodate every discipline. It's not financially possible, and in some cases due to location physically possible. Think about this. What you are asking for is all the ranges that the midlands currently have;

• 10 - 25 mtr pistol range.
• 25 mtr zeroing range.
• 50 mtr benchrest/PR60 range
• 50 mtr plinking range.
• 100 - 300 mtr fullbore range - sheltered.
• 100 - 600 yard fullbore range.
• 800 - 1,200 yard range.
• Clay range with multiple traps.

plus;

• Indoor 10 - 25mtr for ISSF shooting
• Indoor 50 mtr for PR60/3P & Benchrest.
• Gallery range in whatever format that takes (not sure as i've never shot it)
• Silhouette range for both rimfire, and fullbore
• Extensive shotgun ranges to cover all styles
• Archery range

The fact is the midlands can accommodate;

• FTR
• F-Open
• TR
• Match rifle
• Classic/vintage rifle
• PR60 (outdoor)
• Benchrest
• Shotgun/clays
• Pistol

I think that overs a multitude of disciplines. I'm sure the midlands would love to be able to have more ranges, and cover all disciplines the problem is money. Eveything is built off membership fees. When a new discipline is being focused on it means others have to take a back seat for a year or two to rebuild funds to improve facilities for those that shoot other disciplines. What you are asking for cannot be done without serious funding or unless the midlands starts charging through the nose for it's members to have use of the ranges. As they pay their yearly membership fee this simply will not happen. The midlands is not a commercial range in the sense it is not a business. No one is getting rich of it, and all work, and facilities have been put there by the members for the members.

bullets wrote: »

I used to travel with members regularly who now have left which means when I do visit these days I end up bringing a guest along Which I feel uncomfortable/awquard/embarrassed doing. But that's my problem and not the ranges.

I know it's easy said, but you shouldn't. As a member you can bring a guest. I have done so on many occasions over the years, and some even joined and got into the sport. We are all grown men, and i'm sure if there was any issue with people either bringing guests or the frequency of them doing so that it would be addressed. My attitude is, without being a dick about it, continue to do so until told otherwise as you'll find that you were "worrying" about something that existed in your mind only.

When I first stated going there was a lot more activity on the sheltered
range and more of a buzz with friendly banter, last few times I was up
if felt less busy and very quite but that may have been because a lot
of people may have been shooting at the longer ranges and not hanging around the club house area.

~B

Another aspect to consider. Since 2008, and taking into consideration the issue with pistols, people have less and less money. Even the regulars that i would see on a weekly basis are not present as often simply because they cannot afford to keep up their sport. Between fuel to the range, ammo costs, and not forgetting the essentials like food, mortgages, electricity, etc the money is simply not there. People are trying to keep them and their families going on a shoe string budget and keep up a sport they have enjoyed for years. When something has to give it's usually shooting as it's a luxury not a necessity.

I have been affected by this as much as anyone. Having lost my job, suffering health issues, mounting bills, etc. It makes for grim reading, but i use my shooting as an outlet. As soon as i hit the gate (figuratively) a weight is lifted, and i can relax, and forget about the world for a few hours. Have a coffee, a laugh, do a bit of shooting, and i usually go home in a good mood. Until the real world kicks in the next day to wake me up.


I feel i have said as much as i can to address all matters, and issues. I am defending a range i love going to as well as trying to offer an explanation for things people see, and their assumptions of these things. Money is king. Without it any sport will die. Unfortunately the bigger you are the harder it is to accommodate everyone. Look at the baffles. On any other range there may be a couple. On the midlands it's in the dozens. All this new regulations/legislation costs money, and when new safety features like this have to be installed they take from other aspects or features the money could have been used for.

It's a hard game to run a range. I don't envy anyone that undertakes the task, but i do admire their dedication to their given sport that they try to make it available to others. Perhaps if we had a larger target shooting population or a better/larger grant system from the ISC things would be different, but they are not, and while i dislike the "sure'll it'll alright" attitude unfortunately we have no option but to continue as is for the time being.