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The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Baldy Conscience wrote: »
    are the existing chapters available as a mobi or epub?

    Nope check out the links Mr.Freeze has in the 2nd post in this thread. The Barristan II exerts especially are worth a read!


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    #93
    Lovely Bloke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    Well that's not very helpful at all.


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    #94
    buckfast69
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭buckfast69


    TheKeenMachine wrote: »
    I came up with a theory last night about Cersei's trial in AWOW (it's probably been mentioned somewhere online already but anyway) - presuming that Ser Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane and the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is The Hound, I think Martin is setting up Cersei's trial by combat to be a face off between the Clegane brothers with Sandor chosen as the champion of the faith.

    There is a bit of foreshadowing in the earlier books IIRC - Sandor hates Gregor and wants to kill him. Tbh I was a bit disappointed when both died without Sandor's revenge happening

    Thoughts?

    You've read my mind, there is a rule in writing that if you mention a gun in act one that someone will have to fire the gun in act 3. You can see this time and time again GOT, the Iron Bank of Braavos and the faceless men were mentioned in passing in the first book, and then you have the guy tychio nestoris(I could be way off on the spelling) showing up at Stannis camp and Arya goes off to join the faceless men.

    We got a taster of the Hound VS the Mountain at the tourney of the hand, but it was stopped by King Robert. I think its fair to say that everone wants to see a rematch between an undead Mountain(Rob Strong) Vs The Hound(Reborn).

    On a side note, has there been any mention of who the faiths champion is going to be for the trial by combat???


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    #95
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    buckfast69 wrote: »
    You've read my mind, there is a rule in writing that if you mention a gun in act one that someone will have to fire the gun in act 3. You can see this time and time again GOT, the Iron Bank of Braavos and the faceless men were mentioned in passing in the first book, and then you have the guy tychio nestoris(I could be way off on the spelling) showing up at Stannis camp and Arya goes off to join the faceless men.

    We got a taster of the Hound VS the Mountain at the tourney of the hand, but it was stopped by King Robert. I think its fair to say that everone wants to see a rematch between an undead Mountain(Rob Strong) Vs The Hound(Reborn).

    On a side note, has there been any mention of who the faiths champion is going to be for the trial by combat???


    Wasn't the hound reborn in the light of the seven? I know it's a stretch but if the faithful wanted a serious fighter, who better than the hound? I can't imagine how he gets from the quiet isle to kings landing but Im sure GRRM could find a way. The hound is too good a character to just fade into nothing...


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    #96
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,436 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    It'll probably be someone like Bonifer Hasty that will be cleaved in half.


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    #97
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    buckfast69 wrote: »
    You've read my mind, there is a rule in writing that if you mention a gun in act one that someone will have to fire the gun in act 3. You can see this time and time again GOT, the Iron Bank of Braavos and the faceless men were mentioned in passing in the first book, and then you have the guy tychio nestoris(I could be way off on the spelling) showing up at Stannis camp and Arya goes off to join the faceless men.

    We got a taster of the Hound VS the Mountain at the tourney of the hand, but it was stopped by King Robert. I think its fair to say that everone wants to see a rematch between an undead Mountain(Rob Strong) Vs The Hound(Reborn).

    On a side note, has there been any mention of who the faiths champion is going to be for the trial by combat???
    Is the Hound dead though? It was mentioned from Arya's pov a few times that she wished she'd given him the gift of mercy. We are lead to believe that he was so far gone he was dead but what actual proof is there? I remember vaguely a reference to someone finding his helmet on top of a grave. Was there anymore detail to it that I'm forgetting?


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    #98
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Is the Hound dead though?
    Brienne visits the monastery on Quite Isle where the head brother says that the Hound is dead and the monks now possess his war horse. However, Brienne also notices a rather large hooded gravedigger in monk's clothing. The Hound is dead but Sandor Clegane is still alive.


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    #99
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Brienne visits the monastery on Quite Isle where the head brother says that the Hound is dead and the monks now possess his war horse. However, Brienne also notices a rather large hooded gravedigger in monk's clothing. The Hound is dead but Sandor Clegane is still alive.
    Thanks for the info :)


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    #100
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Right, I finally finished ADWD - great book after an incredibly boring AFFC. Some of the theories posted here fit perfectly, and I wouldnt have thought of many of them (It took me so long to read AFFC that I forget a lot of the finer detail).

    Anyway two things:

    - In the second last chapter, Dany gets her moonblood, she cant remember the last time she had it. Has the curse been broken? Can she bear children again?

    - From AFFC I was lead to believe that the entire plot was started by Littlefinger. He admitted that he and Lysa Tully plotted to kill Jon Arryn which triggered a long chain of events. In the final chapter Varys claims to Ser Kevin Lannister that his plan is in motion. Varys and Littlefinger are certainly not friends - who is in control of the greater scheme of things here?


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    #101
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    - In the second last chapter, Dany gets her moonblood, she cant remember the last time she had it. Has the curse been broken? Can she bear children again?

    Either she is fertile again or its just her moonblood. Has this prophecy been fulfilled?

    "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before"

    Sun rising and setting - Quentyn Martell dying.
    Seas go dry - Dothraki sea, not an actual sea drying up.
    Not sure about the mountains one, unless the Pyramids count and the dragons are burning them down, or could be a reference to a volcanic eruption. Isn't Valryia still erupting? When Tyrion and co passed near, didn't they see something?

    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    - From AFFC I was lead to believe that the entire plot was started by Littlefinger. He admitted that he and Lysa Tully plotted to kill Jon Arryn which triggered a long chain of events. In the final chapter Varys claims to Ser Kevin Lannister that his plan is in motion. Varys and Littlefinger are certainly not friends - who is in control of the greater scheme of things here?


    Well Varys has a plan to get a Targaryen back on the throne, and his plan was probably set in motion years before Littlefinger started his plot. Its a game to each of them, positioning players for the throne, just Littlefinger wants it for himself.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    - From AFFC I was lead to believe that the entire plot was started by Littlefinger. He admitted that he and Lysa Tully plotted to kill Jon Arryn which triggered a long chain of events. In the final chapter Varys claims to Ser Kevin Lannister that his plan is in motion. Varys and Littlefinger are certainly not friends - who is in control of the greater scheme of things here?

    I think it will come down to both Littlefinger's & Vary's plots regarding the throne. Like any warfare throughout history a lot of conquerors used the tactic of wearing the opposition out before making their move I think that is how GRRM is trying to portray these two puppet masters. One thing is for certain everything will/has to become more clear in WOW. I'd say as all this unfolds the others in the North will also start making their own move. While this is all going on Dany will be coming back to Westeros with some pissed off pirates, Barry(hopefully) & her dragons.

    Hurry up George for **** sake!


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    #103
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Barry(hopefully)............

    A fools hope! He aint coming back ;)


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    A fools hope! He aint coming back ;)

    I'm clutching at strays ain't I? :(:(


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    #105
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm clutching at strays ain't I? :(:(

    Be great if he did, but there are too many POV characters now, and too many in Meereen about to do battle, so they can't all make it out.

    And assuming, that Greyjoy & Tyrion both join Dany, then that's 4 POVs in her storyline. I think 2 will die during the battle, but maybe just Barriston, as the Ironborn army might not play ball with out Victarion, unless Euron or the other brother show up too.


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    #106
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I've started looking up WOW and (according to wiki) there are POV chapters from Arya, Sansa, Arianne, Aeron, Theon, Victarion, Tyrion and Barristen. Is it possible that we could have another Danaery-less book??

    As Mr. Freeze mentions we are flooded with POV people in Meereen. Personally I hope Victarion gets whacked and the rest remain.


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    #107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    O I agree with Mr. Freeze as I usually do :) but I'm living in hope... stupid hope though as they can't have that many POVs there as when the same happened in KLs we know what happened there...

    The only person I can be sure of being there at the very end as I posted before is probably Bran. Anyone else is game ball to be honest.
    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    I've started looking up WOW and (according to wiki) there are POV chapters from Arya, Sansa, Arianne, Aeron, Theon, Victarion, Tyrion and Barristen. Is it possible that we could have another Danaery-less book??

    As Mr. Freeze mentions we are flooded with POV people in Meereen. Personally I hope Victarion gets whacked and the rest remain.

    http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate/

    Good article I posted earlier!


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    #108
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    And do you think Daenerys will make it back to Westeros in the next book?

    Given her pervious actions, I doubt it, I don't even think she is going to start in that direction.

    I suspect Asshai will feature in her storyline.

    "to go west you must go east" and all that.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    And do you think Daenerys will make it back to Westeros in the next book?

    Given her pervious actions, I doubt it, I don't even think she is going to start in that direction.

    I suspect Asshai will feature in her storyline.

    "to go west you must go east" and all that.

    Decent call but I don't see the Greyjoys wanting to **** around as much so it really depends on them. They have a huge part to play to that I have no doubt.


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    #110
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Decent call but I don't see the Greyjoys wanting to **** around as much so it really depends on them. They have a huge part to play to that I have no doubt.

    No they will want to go straight back, if Victarion and Dany team up.

    But they aren't going to get along, she might like the tough, dirty merc types, but Victarion is coming over to marry her, take her army and Dragons and do as he pleases, taking the throne and killing Euron.

    She won't react well to being married again, especially to someone who only wants what she has, and will want to call all the shots.


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    #111
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Deleted User wrote: »

    http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate/

    Good article I posted earlier!

    Thanks for this, makes me ache for more. Very strange after my experience with AFFC.


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    Thanks for this, makes me ache for more. Very strange after my experience with AFFC.

    It's by far the best article I've read on WOW. The author clearly has gone through the books 2-3 times so knows his stuff! :)


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    #113
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,149 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I can see Dany not needing the Greyjoys at all. Their fleet aren't going to be able to carry her army across to Westeros (they're mainly longships). The Slave revolt mentioned in ADWD could lead to her getting a different fleet...


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    #114
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I can see Dany not needing the Greyjoys at all. Their fleet aren't going to be able to carry her army across to Westeros (they're mainly longships). The Slave revolt mentioned in ADWD could lead to her getting a different fleet...

    Do we have rough numbers of how big the Ironborn fleet is, and how many men they have?

    And then how big could Daenerys's army potentially be after uniting the various factions?


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    #115
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Do we have rough numbers of how big the Ironborn fleet is, and how many men they have?

    And then how big could Daenerys's army potentially be after uniting the various factions?

    Around 55 ships according to the most recent Victarion chapters, but there was no confirmation that the rest of the fleet (30-40) are definitely lost. No idea on numbers of sailors.

    Victarion took over a few trading ships on the way to Meereen too, as much to maintain their secrecy than anything. They wont made good warships, but their crews make good gestures to the Drowned God :)


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    #116
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,149 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    By the time she makes her move, Dany's army is likely to consist of:

    The Unsullied (10k men or so)
    The Second Sons
    The Stormcrows
    Her Freedmen
    Barristans Knights (only a small no. in fairness)

    and a ****ing massive Kalasar once she takes her revenge on Khal Jhaqo (and possiby Khal Pono too...)

    That's not going to fit on 55 ships.


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    #117
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Sleepy wrote: »
    That's not going to fit on 55 ships.

    Maybe you can march there. Totally fecking mad idea here, one I don't subscribe to myself, but have thought of it the odd time. What if its their world is a globe too, and the quickest way west could be to go east, for all we know, The Land of Always Winter could be connected to the Essos land mass.

    Or sail from somewhere in the far east, landing on the western shore of Westeros somewhere.

    There is no full map of the Essos land mass as far as I know.


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    #118
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I personally don't think Dany matches up with the Iron Islanders. Victarion wants to marry Dany and have the power and glory for himself, Dany will see right through this. I also don't subscribe to the power of the threat they pose - their recent history is riddled with defeat, including one by Stannis in a sea battle, which they are supposedly masters of.

    If they do join forces Victarion will have to bend the knee, something he won't be too fond of doing after bending to Aeron.


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    #119
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Just reading about the Iron Rebellion on A Wiki of Ice and Fire - Jorah Mormont earned his Knighthood based on his bravery at the Battle of Pyke!! Could make an interesting encounter between him and Victarion.


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    #120
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,149 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    If Dany's armies are to make Westeros, I reckon it'll be with the Volantine fleet.

    Stumbled on this and have lost an hour or so to it this afternoon. Excellent blog that makes far more sense of the Meerenese Knot than most (and, if correct, raised ADWD to the level of some of the most complex fantasy ever written!): http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/


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    #121
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Sleepy wrote: »
    If Dany's armies are to make Westeros, I reckon it'll be with the Volantine fleet.

    Stumbled on this and have lost an hour or so to it this afternoon. Excellent blog that makes far more sense of the Meerenese Knot than most (and, if correct, raised ADWD to the level of some of the most complex fantasy ever written!): http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/

    Sheeett that Jon Snow one was interesting to say the least. The Hardhome situation didn't seem as important in the books but it's obviously hugely important to Jons decision making. I always wondered how Jon Snow would come back to life/stay alive after the attack at the end of ADWD. Now Im thinking he mightnt come back at all. It's the perfect twist for GRRM. A seemingly untouchable character gettin knocked off out of nowhere. He has history with these twists...


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