Marriage and Men

Dr Galen · 27-07-2011 8:34am

Jeez......... handbags or what???

Ok, so lets clear this up and then get back to a good discussion,

@ Darlughda

You were rude in your response. Your post was OTT. I can see the point you were attempting to make, but really, what you came up with was way OTT for the the post it was responding to.

No need for warnings or bans or whatever for it though, we all get a bit hot under the collar from time to time.

Your response to Otis and his direction was unnecessary tbh, can we have less of that sort of pettyness? If you have an issue with something that a Mod says or does, take it to a PM conversation. There is absolutely no need to be "calling someone out" on thread. It doesn't make the thread any more readable, spoils things for others and generally looks a bit childish imho.

Also, you made comment directed at Wolfe Tone. Thats seriously not on. Regardless of WT political leanings ( which I'm well aware of, and mainly disagree) on this forum, everyone gets treated with respect and tolerance. What he, or anyone else, posts about on other fora is pretty irrelevent in most cases. Taking sly digs at him or others won't be tolerated. It's not what this forum is about.

This is a final warning to you. Many another Mod or forum would have handed out a ban for even 1 of the above 3 issues. I won't be, but if it comes to mine or the other Mods attention that such behaviour is continuing, then your access to the forum will be revoked.

@ Everyone Else

1) Don't be rising to things on thread. If you see somethig that you don't like the look of, report it. I think you all know by now that we will act on things. Seriously, don't get caught up, ignore it and move on.

2) Get back to discussing the topic at hand. Hard to totally separate the kids from the topic of marriage in fairness, but lets not make it all about the kids either.

Great thread though

Cheers

DrG

py2006 · 27-07-2011 9:04am

Wow, this thread will be locked!

Back to topic:

I always found the whole wedding day thing a bit odd. Apart from the fact it can be quite false and stressful, I find it to be mainly centered around the woman.

Its interesting that one poster pointed out that a lot of his male friends got married because that is what their girlfriends wanted.

Perhaps I am being a little cynical because I have 'found the one' as they say!

Sky King · 27-07-2011 9:56am

I have to take responsibility for dragging the kids into this (!) - sorry about that. The two are inextricably linked all the same.

It's an entertaining and interesting thread - interesting to hear everyone's viewpoints.

foxyboxer · 27-07-2011 10:33am

Seeing as I'm a single 30 year old, with no long term relationship for years, Marriage is the furthest thing from my mind. I much prefer the George Clooney approach though. Always have an escape plan!

Maguined · 27-07-2011 10:54am

I would not say I am completely against getting married however it is not very appealing to me. The thought of having an expensive wedding is abhorrent as is such a waste of money, I am also not religious so have no great desire to have a big religious wedding.

There is really no great benefit out of it from my point of view with some potential negatives should the relationship break down in the future.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 27-07-2011 1:06pm

I must say in the past while I have really gotten a strange feeling of wanting to settle down, even though I'm a pretty young guy (28).

I sort of feel I have had my fill of crazy, single fun in life and if I feel I'm in a relationship that I could see being the big one, I probably would go down the marriage route, to "draw a line in the sand" as one poster said.

I have came around to liking the idea of an "unit" as someone else said. Be nice to do the mundane as well as the exciting things in life when someone I love.

I'm seeing my current girlfriend for a year so it's early days yet but there are definitely possibilities there for the future I think. If we were both working in Limerick (she's currently in Dublin but her family are from Limerick) I would probably ask if she would consider moving in with me in my house. Which is strange, as my ex and I were seeing each other for 4 years, both living in the same city but we never really seriously discussed moving in together. Not sure if the difference is the girl, the fact I have gotten into a move settling down mindset, or both.

Just to bring up the topic of children again in the context of our relationship. A few months back we were driving and we started cracking jokes about the house in the country, 2.5 children and a dog sort of thing. What started out as a laugh actually got serious (driven more by her I think) where we discussed our opinions on having children. We both came to the conclusion we would both like kids sometime in the future and that it was actually quite good even at this early stages of our relationship to know each others opinions on this, rather than finding things out a few years down the road where if we had different opinions it may have a bearing on our relationship.

Jesus Wept · 27-07-2011 3:15pm

Sky King wrote: »

The two are inextricably linked all the same.

No.

Gilldog · 27-07-2011 3:49pm

si_guru wrote: »

What's the point of life if you don't have kids?

Wow. Just wow. I don't even know where to start on that one...suffice to say the subjective thinking brigade is out in force..."I think this way therefore all others must surely think the same".

Sky King wrote: »

The two are inextricably linked all the same.

Apparently not;

According to Custodial Mothers and Fathers and Their Child Support: 2007, released by the U.S. Census Bureau in November, 2009, there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today, and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million children (approximately 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today).

As far as Irish statistics, the number of births outside of marriage for Ireland in 2002 was more than 18,000 and i'd say that number has gone up in the last 9 years...

People marry for lots of reasons, not just children.

Sky King · 27-07-2011 4:47pm

Of course they do, and indeed people have children for lots of reasons too, including not packing a vest for their jimmy, (to quote Dr Dre) or whippin it out just in time and shooting it on her chest, but I find it interesting that an above poster feels there is no link between marriage and having children.

donfers · 27-07-2011 5:31pm

I dated a Swedish girl a while back and was quite surprised how nonchalant she was about her parents being unmarried, apparently it's quite common over there for couples to stay together for many years without feeling the need to stroll down the aisle, there is far less societal pressure to tie the knot and my raised eyebrows reaction to her "bastard" status amused her as over there they wouldn't bat an eyelid at an unmarried long-term couple

I have to say I like that set-up and don't want to be maneouvred down the aisle just yet

also don't really like the idea of a big traditional wedding, prefer to take close friends and family to some exotic paradise, get the ceremony quickly out of the way and have a week or so of great food, drinks, weather and fun and leave it at that (honeymoon and wedding all in one;))

Gilldog · 27-07-2011 6:30pm

Sky King wrote: »

Of course they do, and indeed people have children for lots of reasons too, including not packing a vest for their jimmy, (to quote Dr Dre) or whippin it out just in time and shooting it on her chest, but I find it interesting that an above poster feels there is no link between marriage and having children.

Haha, I guess thats true, and thanks for the imagery thats now in my head

To be fair, its not just my opinion, the stats prove that many people these days are chosing to having children outside of marriage (whether by circumstance or a lifestyle choice), and indeed there's a growing number of childfree and childless couples out there enjoying happy and fulfilled marriages/ partnerships. It can and is being done.
However in saying that, I do understand equally that many people choose to marry and have children and feel that is an important part of their life also, it just wouldn't be for me.
Should probably fess up to being a woman and lurking in TGC, sorry for hijacking the thread!!

parker kent · 27-07-2011 8:24pm

A growing number of childless married couples and unmarried parents does not mean that children and marriage are not linked. There are pretty obvious longstanding links between getting married and having children.

jackofalltrades · 27-07-2011 9:05pm

I'm in a long term relationship at the moment. I have no desire to get married.
I don't see the "emotional sense" in doing it. I don't see how it would change my relationship. I don't see the need to profess in front of the Church/State that I love someone else, its none of their business.
I don't feel then need to blow €10,000+ on giving other people a day out. I don't see it as being essential before having children.

I'd only ever consider it from a practical standpoint.

si_guru wrote:

Now back to weddings..

IM(very)HO.. the big day is a day of balancing desire and expectation.

You may very well want a quiet affair at the registry office.. but Granny may well want a huge white wedding! ..and who would want to deny her that in her twilight years?

I found that arranging a wedding is a much about pleasing others as it is about actually doing want you yourself would like. BUT the comprimise can be in favour of everyone.

This is what I specifically dislike about weddings. It's "your" day, but everyone else seems to think its ok to apply some form of social pressure to get bits changed that they don't like.

Sky King wrote:

The two are inextricably linked all the same.

I fail to see how they're inextricably linked.

ToniTuddle · 27-07-2011 9:28pm

foxyboxer wrote: »

I much prefer the George Clooney approach though. Always have an escape plan!

He really is good at that

As soon as the latest one mentioned that she saw marriage in her future to the press-ZOOOOOM-he legged it out the door :pac:

For me I like the idea of marriage and the idea of a loving, trusting, long-term committment between two people who actually truly respect each other.... but I've no idea what that actually looks like!

The amount of ones around here in my little part of rural Ireland (aged same as me 25 and all the above age groups) that are flat out cheating on their wives/husbands....I'm really not exhaggerating, it's flippin ridiculous and quite frankly sick. It would honestly put you off the idea of being with anyone!:eek: Well anyone local here anyway

Not too sure about the whole traditional church wedding but if I was to ever get married, I'm only going to invite the people I actually want to see at my wedding and not out of some politeness to invite wankering aul nosey neighbours or relatives I don't like :pac: It won't be one of those expensive load of nonesense carry ons either....but it would be one hell of a party

But to tell you the truth I honestly don't see marriage or kids in my future. Definitely not kids anyway, I would not make a good mother! I do see a shit load of rescue dogs,cats,hens and maybe a rescue horse or donkey too

Now that would do me grand as a family

My brother I think would definitely like to settle down and would get married, he's a very traditional type of dude. Would love to see that happen for him with the right girl, he deserves that happiness.

EDIT: As for folks saying about how they feel no need to declare in front of family and friends that they love their other half fair enough. But if I ever met someone that I felt that strongly about I wouldn't think twice about declaring it or not. It's not really about that. I think a wedding can be a really nice, special, happy time to share with the people you genuinely love and care for all around you. There's nothing wrong with that or with folks who don't want a wedding.

Though I can see myself saying...."right right we love each other I do, I do....to the feicin bar!!" :pac: :pac:

The Princess Bride · 27-07-2011 9:50pm

si_guru wrote: »

You may very well want a quiet affair at the registry office.. but Granny may well want a huge white wedding! ..and who would want to deny her that in her twilight years?

I found that arranging a wedding is a much about pleasing others as it is about actually doing want you yourself would like.

Woman here.Took the registry office route(only married for legal benefits tbh,LTR)-did exactly what we wanted and did not listen to parents or anyone else who choose to comment.That's what being an adult is about ,surely,being grown up enough to make up your own mind and choices.
It was a very very different day to all the weddings I'd ever been to before mine.
The thing about marriage /wedding days is,it's really only important to the couple.No-one else will ever say,years from now,"oh, do you remember msthe80s wedding...." Only me & mrthe80s
Seriously,no-one cares- just do what you as a person staying single/couple living together/marrying wants to do- it's not about anyone else.
It's your life.Be happy with it.

Dolbert · 27-07-2011 10:21pm

In a LTR too and my partner and I want to get married at some point - however the idea of being 'princess for a day' in a cookie-cutter hotel shindig leaves me cold. My grandparents had their ceremony, then had everybody back for tea & sandwiches - replace those with beer and BBQ and that's probably what we'll do too! This lark of spending tens of thousands on one day is pure fcuking madness imo.

What is important to me though, is actually being husband and wife. The whole point is that it is a commitment, that legally you have enough faith in the relationship to cement it further. We considered the scenario if one of us were to become gravely ill that the other would actually have a say in the treatment, as a spouse and not simply a boy/ girlfriend. I think to say 'we don't need a piece of paper' is a bit of a cop-out tbh - lots of important things in life are just pieces of paper. Pieces of paper mean something.

Dr Galen · 27-07-2011 10:39pm

Despite my atheism, we had a church wedding. We were very lucky though that it was a family friend who presided over the ceremony, and he was very cool. Made the whole thing very "us" and basically apart from the bits he had to do, everything else was chosen by us.

Despite what people say or think, marriage isn't about the other people. It also isn't about professing your love in front of a higher authority. Well, it shouldnt be if you are doing it for the right reasons. You are making a formal commitment to another person, for life. Thats a big thing. You are telling someone else that, you want to be with them forever, and forsake everyone else. You have other people there, to act as witnesses to that event.

Now I have no issue with people who chose not to get married. I also have no doubt that many many of those couples remain committed and faithful for life also. Each to their own in my book. I do have an issue with those (and there are plenty) who look down their nose at those of us who do make the choice to marry.

As for the afters.....well spending mad amounts of money is obviously mad. You can have a great time, and celebrate with all those nearest and dearest on a modest budget. We didn't go over the top at all, but had the best time ever. It really was just a like a huge party tbh. Again, it was very "us" though, and we made that clear from the start. There would be some allowances made for the mothers/fathers to stick a few on the list, but we had final say and of they didn't like that, then tough. Once or twice there were a few moments of tension, but we stuck to our guns and made sure that everyone knew it was our day, and that we wouldn't compromise on that.

So 2 pieces of advice:

1) make the whole day about you and your partner. Feck anyone else that want to get over-involved

2) Take the time to enjoy it. Something will absolutely go wrong. Sod it. Nothing you can do. It will pass by in a flash, so just had a great time

parker kent · 27-07-2011 10:46pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I don't feel then need to blow €10,000+ on giving other people a day out.

I was going to question a lot of what you said, but this was the most questionable. Nobody HAS to spend €10,000+, it's ridiculous to say that. Some choose to spend it, but many choose not to spend vast sums on a wedding.

jackofalltrades · 27-07-2011 11:53pm

parker kent wrote:

I was going to question a lot of what you said, but this was the most questionable. Nobody HAS to spend €10,000+, it's ridiculous to say that. Some choose to spend it, but many choose not to spend vast sums on a wedding.

Feel free to question the rest of what I said. I was just commenting on what the average couple would spend on a wedding. I feel that it's a lot of money to spend on one day. And I've been to smaller weddings where the bill has still ran in to thousands.

LightningBolt · 28-07-2011 5:11pm

Can see myself settling down with my girlfriend and getting married. That said, I'm 26, she's 25 and there's a lot of stuff that we both have plans to do over the next few years like travelling, working abroad (both of us - not necessarily the same place either), living together and many other things that we need to do before we would/could ever consider marriage. I don't think I'd be in a position to marry until I'm in my early 30's at earliest

There was a wedding in the family recently and we both talked about what would be our ideal wedding. We both agreed that we'd like a small wedding for family and close friends maybe even abroad. We're both pretty sensible when it comes to money and stuff like that so doubt we'd go spending 20k or such on a wedding though I imagine it would run up a small bill none the less;)

I have some difficulty as to where we get married. My family wouldn't be church goers at all bar the usual circumstances, her family would be fairly religious in the sense that they'd go to mass every week although they wouldn't be stuffy or anything! She'll want a church wedding no doubt whereas I'd be far happier with an outdoor wedding preferably abroad... That'll take some working out...

Stheno · 28-07-2011 11:20pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'd only ever consider it from a practical standpoint.

Practically it allows you to be next of kin, and also to share tax credits.

However civil partnership allows for next of kin and I'm not sure about tax credits.

In the case of couples where one is embarking on a second marriage and one of the potential spouses is paying spousal maintenance, there can under revenue rules be a situation where that spouse can share tax credits (especially if it is to their advantage) with their former spouse, even after their divorce.

So you have the bizarre situation where if two high earners paying the top rate of tax were to marry, but one was divorced and paying their former spouse maintenance, they could be married to one person but claiming married tax credits on the basis of a previous marriage given they are paying maintenance.

Truly unique.

I checked this out with the revenue at one point and they told me it was nonsense until I pointed them to the relevant section of their website, to which I got a reply of "Well you learn something new everyday"

For me, there would be no tax/next of kin rights/anything that marriage would confer on my partnership. If I was to marry my current partner it would more likely be their desire to cement the relationship in a way that is recognised societally than anything else, given that tax/next of kin rights are influenced by previous matters.

parker kent · 28-07-2011 11:26pm

I think if decisions on marriage come down to tax credits, getting married may not be the wisest decision for a couple!

K-9 · 29-07-2011 12:10am

Stheno wrote: »

Practically it allows you to be next of kin, and also to share tax credits.

However civil partnership allows for next of kin and I'm not sure about tax credits.

In the case of couples where one is embarking on a second marriage and one of the potential spouses is paying spousal maintenance, there can under revenue rules be a situation where that spouse can share tax credits (especially if it is to their advantage) with their former spouse, even after their divorce.

So you have the bizarre situation where if two high earners paying the top rate of tax were to marry, but one was divorced and paying their former spouse maintenance, they could be married to one person but claiming married tax credits on the basis of a previous marriage given they are paying maintenance.

Truly unique.

I checked this out with the revenue at one point and they told me it was nonsense until I pointed them to the relevant section of their website, to which I got a reply of "Well you learn something new everyday"

For me, there would be no tax/next of kin rights/anything that marriage would confer on my partnership. If I was to marry my current partner it would more likely be their desire to cement the relationship in a way that is recognised societally than anything else, given that tax/next of kin rights are influenced by previous matters.

I don't think maintenance would be treated as a tax credit in that scenario.

In a second marriage you'd get the married tax credit based on the second marriage, and an allowance for paying spousal maintenance, it's basically seen as a charge on your income, something you have to pay.

It's hard to explain unless you are familiar with tax returns.

Count Duckula · 29-07-2011 11:31am

Maybe I'm a weird one then, but I know that if my current relationship did ever end in marriage then it would be driven by me as my girlfriend is totally apathetic to the idea.

Kinetic^ · 29-07-2011 11:41am

Blisterman wrote: »

At the end of the day, if it was what my girlfriend wanted, and I felt that I definitely wanted to spend the rest of our lives together, like my friends I'd do it to make her happy, but if she was happy to never get married, I'd be perfectly fine with it.

I'm the of the same opinion, getting married next year, not regretting asking her either.

Marriage and Men

Comments