Boards Beef Discussion Group

Tipp Man · 24-04-2012 1:37pm

So in a paddock system how often are people typically moving the cows?

how much do people expect to increase their stocking rates by going to a paddock system?

do you anticipate using more fertiliser as a result of using paddocks?

KCTK · 24-04-2012 1:40pm

Muckit wrote: »

Tora, I wouldn't mind giving it a go Have you tried this yourself? If it worked it would be a very cheap trough

have a number of large concreate troughs with this working perfectly, if you can find a short screw/shed bolt to screw in to the ball it makes it very easy to attach the cord, could also use light fence wire instead of cord.

Tora Bora · 24-04-2012 2:29pm

Muckit wrote: »

Tora, I wouldn't mind giving it a go Have you tried this yourself? If it worked it would be a very cheap trough

Yes, I have done this in a few places. Plumber mate threw me a box of old ball cocks he had taken out of places. I put new rubber seal in, and converted as stated for the watering troughs. Works perfect, and cattle nosing the ball does not lead to damage. If they push the ball around when it's on the brass stem, you end up with leaks etc.

LivInt20 · 24-04-2012 2:58pm

Tipp Man wrote: »

So in a paddock system how often are people typically moving the cows?

how much do people expect to increase their stocking rates by going to a paddock system?

do you anticipate using more fertiliser as a result of using paddocks?

And what is the typical fertiliser programme in a paddock system.

Fertiliser type?

Application rate?

Applied when?

redzerologhlen · 24-04-2012 4:31pm

Right lads, Own 286 acres and renting another 20. Land is fragment into 6 different blocks spread over 7 miles which makes things awkward. Have about 110 acres of summer land of which about 70 could be reseeded easily enough. No paddocks in place at the moment and water is an issue so I have a lot to straighten out. Cows are grazing in a kind of a rotation but it is awkward trying to move them from one block to the other. Have big plans for the next ten years to reseed as much as possible, sort out water and divide up fields in a way they can easily be divided up again with a temporary fence. Costs between vets, fertiliser, feed and contractor are about 6k a year at the moment which is pretty good. Keeping 40 cows at the moment and the most of their calfs to year and a halfs. Big potential for improvement but hard to know where to start!!

blue5000 · 24-04-2012 10:40pm

Muckit wrote: »

Blue I like your water trough. I've seen these bottom fed ball valves on youtube, but they looked at me with 10 heads when i went to local co-op looking for them.

Have you a costing for the valve? I have plenty of those barrels. I can get a jfc dt30 fitted with ball valve for €59.

Hi muckit, it's just an ordinary brass 1/2" ballcock. I drilled a hole in the side of the barrel,about 4 inches up from the bottom (see the third picture). The hole has to be very tight so that the brass has to be screwed into it. I put a good dab of silicone both inside and outside the hole before screwing the elbow on. You need the big brass nuts as well, not the nylon/plastic sh1te

Inside the barrel the normal (short,6-7? inch) brass stem is still on the ballcock, the ball has a bolt in it, same thread as the ballcock stem with v light chain hanging down from the float to the stem. The stem has two nuts, one either side of the chain link. Not sure how much those ballcocks are with the hi-pressure inlet, 18-20e I'm guessing.

Some of those add-F barrels had a threaded bung on them, a ballcock could be threaded straight into them, you had to cut off the blank in the middle to get it through first. The plastic eventually gets brittle though they don't last forever.

lab man · 24-04-2012 11:17pm

Tora Bora wrote: »

Muckit, if you want to go to the bottom fed ball valve, and you happen to have one or two of the standard valves around the place, you can convert easily.
Remove the brass stem on the ball from the valve end. Remove the ball from the stem. Tie a nice strong piece of baler twine to the valve lever, where you removed the stem. Tie the other end of the twine to the ball. Adjust length. Bingo.:cool:

hi lads, i use the plastic 2 litre milk cartons, tie cord onto the handle an onto the brass lever, they work perfect from the bottom feed water troughs /45 gal drums

connormi · 24-04-2012 11:31pm

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Right lads, Own 286 acres and renting another 20. Land is fragment into 6 different blocks spread over 7 miles which makes things awkward. Have about 110 acres of summer land of which about 70 could be reseeded easily enough. No paddocks in place at the moment and water is an issue so I have a lot to straighten out. Cows are grazing in a kind of a rotation but it is awkward trying to move them from one block to the other. Have big plans for the next ten years to reseed as much as possible, sort out water and divide up fields in a way they can easily be divided up again with a temporary fence. Costs between vets, fertiliser, feed and contractor are about 6k a year at the moment which is pretty good. Keeping 40 cows at the moment and the most of their calfs to year and a halfs. Big potential for improvement but hard to know where to start!!

Just an idea would you consider carrying some of the calves to finishing, would be spreading your options a bit while increasing output also. As 40 cows on 300 odd acres seems very low stocking rate.

As regard paddocks if you divided land up into 6 or 7 acres fields, cows would have shelter and you wouldnt be moving fences or rotating them everyday like with milking cows. Maybe building a few roads would reduce poaching, make handling cattle easier and divides up the area a bit.

redzerologhlen · 24-04-2012 11:41pm

connormi wrote: »

Just an idea would you consider carrying some of the calves to finishing, would be spreading your options a bit while increasing output also. As 40 cows on 300 odd acres seems very low stocking rate.

As regard paddocks if you divided land up into 6 or 7 acres fields, cows would have shelter and you wouldnt be moving fences or rotating them everyday like with milking cows. Maybe building a few roads would reduce poaching, make handling cattle easier and divides up the area a bit.

About 180 acres of that is our shed but our stocking rate is still too low

I dont think shelter will be much of an issue with making paddocks in our place. We were carrying bullocks to finish up to a couple of years ago with 60 cows but to be honest there was as much out of the selling as year and a halfs the way we were operating. I would like to divide fields into 10 acres and place water trough in the middle so the can be divided again with a temporary fence. Would be doing the 10 acre divisions with stone walls rather then a fence too.

bob charles · 25-04-2012 12:03am

redzerologhlen wrote: »

About 180 acres of that is our shed but our stocking rate is still too low I dont think shelter will be much of an issue with making paddocks in our place. We were carrying bullocks to finish up to a couple of years ago with 60 cows but to be honest there was as much out of the selling as year and a halfs the way we were operating. I would like to divide fields into 10 acres and place water trough in the middle so the can be divided again with a temporary fence. Would be doing the 10 acre divisions with stone walls rather then a fence too.

Having a fair idea of the type of animals that you are producing and in the climate they are used too, I couldnt see how finishing them would leave any extra margin. The stores in your parts are a sight to behold and command a serious price premium

redzerologhlen · 25-04-2012 12:09am

bob charles wrote: »

Having a fair idea of the type of animals that you are producing and in the climate they are used too, I couldnt see how finishing them would leave any extra margin. The stores in your parts are a sight to behold and command a serious price premium

Exactly bob, I agree 100% with you which is why we got out of it!!

spt88 · 25-04-2012 12:26am

just in the middle of dividing up a 60 square block of land into approx 4 acre paddocks. im just wondering how many sucklers could you run in a four acre paddock. im hoping for a 30 day rotation.it'd be good dry land (wel for around here anyway)

blue5000 · 25-04-2012 12:37am

spt88 wrote: »

just in the middle of dividing up a 60 square block of land into approx 4 acre paddocks. im just wondering how many sucklers could you run in a four acre paddock. im hoping for a 30 day rotation.it'd be good dry land (wel for around here anyway)

Sorry gone too late to work it out (15kg dm per cow x no of cows, 100 kg dm/ha per day in may june) Why 30 days?
VERY Rough ballpark would be 4 days for 40 cows in a 4 acre paddock,

spt88 · 25-04-2012 12:44am

blue5000 wrote: »

Sorry gone too late to work it out (15kg dm per cow x no of cows, 100 kg dm/ha per day in may june) Why 30 days?
VERY Rough ballpark would be 4 days for 40 cows in a 4 acre paddock,

am 30 days well this wil be governed by growth of course.. no real reason for the 30 days just that the place is going to work out in about 15 paddocks.. looks like il have to buy more cows

pakalasa · 25-04-2012 9:30am

redzerologhlen wrote: »

......40 cows at the moment and the most of their calfs to year and a halfs. Big potential for improvement but hard to know where to start!!

Redz,
If it was me, I'd be looking to produce those big framey yellow charolais, that the area if famous for. I'd source big growty type red lims that would calve easily to a char bull (you're well on the way to this with your heifers in the video). The limstone is ideal for growing frame. Let the boys in the east of the country do the finishing. I wouldn't go down the muscley side of things with BB and BA either. Play to your advantages. Your land is dry, so ideal for carrying big framey cows.

Muckit · 25-04-2012 11:51am

Moved cattle off the last of the silage ground yesterday evening and rolled up temp dividing fences. I don't use reels, hand and elbow is reel of choice:D. I've started leaving the end of the wire on the egg at the ditch and hanging the roll on hedge. White stakes from each line stuck down in a group beside it. They're out of the way for silage and easy to put up to graze aftergrass after slurry is out.

What used to happen before was either myself, oul lad or brother would roll up and all was dumped in the shed or the yard. Nobody know then what roll went where and you'd be cutting or joining wire :rolleyes: Total headwreck and time wasting.

The ground is marked, but ate out well for the conditions. Will get fertiliser and chain harrow in the next few days.

I think (hoping) that the upshot of all this poor weather will be that there will be good quality grass coming in May if/when we get a bit of heat. I just want to have the majority of grazing paddocks skint before that.

blue5000 · 25-04-2012 12:16pm

Muckit wrote: »

Moved cattle off the last of the silage ground yesterday evening and rolled up temp dividing fences. I don't use reels, hand and elbow is reel of choice:D. I've started leaving the end of the wire on the egg at the ditch and hanging the roll on hedge. White stakes from each line stuck down in a group beside it. They're out of the way for silage and easy to put up to graze aftergrass after slurry is out. What used to happen before was either myself, oul lad or brother would roll up and all was dumped in the shed or the yard. Nobody know then what roll went where and you'd be cutting or joining wire :rolleyes: Total headwreck and time wasting.

.

Muckit where do you live? I could do with a few more white stakes.:D

Seriously though you just need the reels long enough. I have a couple of (expensive) geared reels with 500m on them......

For the rest I use empty mig wire reels. I usually divide a 500m roll in 3, cut 200m off on one and have two smaller ones of 150m. Then get a bottle of tippex and write the amount of meters on the BLACK reel;)

When I get as good as redzer and legwax with youtube I must make a few fencing videos.....

pakalasa · 25-04-2012 1:25pm

I bought a geared reel winder and 200m of polytape yesterday. I measured the different distances on Google Earth beforehand so I know 200m will cover all the lengths I need to do. I'm hoping too that the calves will see the orange tape better than the white polywire.

lakill Farm · 25-04-2012 1:40pm

i know a lad who has the reels set up for a cordless drill. :rolleyes:

Cordless drill always in the jeep with 2 batterys.

Muckit · 25-04-2012 2:17pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Muckit where do you live? I could do with a few more white stakes.:D

Seriously though you just need the reels long enough. I have a couple of (expensive) geared reels with 500m on them......

For the rest I use empty mig wire reels. I usually divide a 500m roll in 3, cut 200m off on one and have two smaller ones of 150m. Then get a bottle of tippex and write the amount of meters on the BLACK reel;)

When I get as good as redzer and legwax with youtube I must make a few fencing videos.....

I have no confidence in the polywire or tape. It's just me and my experience with it. I use mild steel tying wire for all temp fences. I find it carries current better and you can make an effective join in it if it breaks. The old polywire I have lying around might be used sometimes along with the MS wire just to highlight a section, like a temporary runway.

In saying that I do intend to buy ONE geared reel and possibly polywire/tape to have for this purpose (making temporary runways)

Yes the empty MIG reels... I got a few of these off a relative years ago with the intention of making fencing reels, but they were never used. I don't think they'd be suitable for MS wire and I'd have to make a holder, which would probably weigh a ton! :rolleyes:

Muckit · 25-04-2012 2:23pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Muckit where do you live? I could do with a few more white stakes.:D

They're not pigtails blue! I mainly use ones like these;)

I do have a load of pigtails that the fence blew through if they're any good to ya

!Bt(Osog!2k~$(KGrHqMH-DcEvsKVUrWNBL7sFJqGCg~~_35.JPG

redzerologhlen · 25-04-2012 3:21pm

pakalasa wrote: »

Redz,
If it was me, I'd be looking to produce those big framey yellow charolais, that the area if famous for. I'd source big growty type red lims that would calve easily to a char bull (you're well on the way to this with your heifers in the video). The limstone is ideal for growing frame. Let the boys in the east of the country do the finishing. I wouldn't go down the muscley side of things with BB and BA either. Play to your advantages. Your land is dry, so ideal for carrying big framey cows.

Thats the way I intend to go pak but wouldnt mind having a few blonde cows either hence the blonde with the heifers, they cross well with a Charolais too. Just want to have the right type of a cow for a charolais first.

1chippy · 25-04-2012 10:41pm

what sort of time frame do you work your cows to graze for. we just put 30 cows into a 7 acre field. we dont usually use paddock system but have started implementing this year. we have split off around 2 acres of the ground(temp fencing). On the last field we worked out what they would clear in a day and move the fence every two days. with this one we were going to try to keep them tight meaning we leave enough for a bit less than a day but still only move every day. more or less meaning they will always be hungry. should we be leaving them with enough for a couple of days (2-4) or strip grazing it. I know that moving the fence is extra work but were trying to graze tight till we get decent growth. what sort of method do you use.

Muckit · 25-04-2012 11:10pm

over 2500 views... only 75 posts.

Have you contributed yet? If not, why not? :rolleyes:

Bizzum · 25-04-2012 11:40pm

Muckit wrote: »

over 2500 views... only 75 posts.

Have you contributed yet? If not, why not? :rolleyes:

And here was me enjoying the read without having to add anything.:)

I will say this now though in relation to fencing. This white polywire/tape is the bane of my life. It works for a while but invariably will let you down if you come to depend on it. I have found the mains fencer particurlarly hard on it. Maybe it's just me, perhaps people change it more regulararly than me and dont run into problems.

On the subject of drinkers I often thought a simple gate valve at the trough was a good idea to isolate/repair/drain etc.

jerdee · 26-04-2012 9:08am

got seven off a lad that makes them they had hairline cracks in them tried tek7 but no use then i just plaster insides with a good coat with some pvc bond mixed in a it worked at treat only thing was i had to get new ball cocks as older ones are too short to go through the concrete .

paddock system 2 acres heavy land all high tensile

next job is to upgrade water system might try 3/4 and new fast fill althought i have only little numbers.

KCTK · 26-04-2012 9:43am

jerdee wrote: »

got seven off a lad that makes them they had hairline cracks in them tried tek7 but no use then i just plaster insides with a good coat with some pvc bond mixed in a it worked at treat only thing was i had to get new ball cocks as older ones are too short to go through the concrete .

paddock system 2 acres heavy land all high tensile

next job is to upgrade water system might try 3/4 and new fast fill althought i have only little numbers.

Well worth spending the few extra bob on 3/4, we have 1/2 pipe in some areas and god it is painfully slow to refill the trough, cattle just standing around waiting for it to fill during the summer!!

Tora Bora · 26-04-2012 10:01am

KCTK wrote: »

Well worth spending the few extra bob on 3/4, we have 1/2 pipe in some areas and god it is painfully slow to refill the trough, cattle just standing around waiting for it to fill during the summer!!

It's not as if they have a load of work to get done or anything:rolleyes:

KCTK · 26-04-2012 10:20am

Tora Bora wrote: »

It's not as if they have a load of work to get done or anything:rolleyes:

Could be lying down putting on weight!!!!

Dozer1 · 26-04-2012 10:26am

I feel my land is too segmented for paddocks, biggest block together is 10 acres and this is used for silage, might try temp fences on the after grass and see how it goes.

I rent about 15 acres in one block but the only water source is river at the bottom of one of the fields so not really an option to sub-divide it out.
perhaps a pasture pump might work but it would have to bring the water about 200m to the next field.

i'd agree with the lads on the fast fill fittings, if cattle are fighting for space then they end up poaching the ground or breaking something else.

Rovi · 26-04-2012 12:13pm

KCTK wrote: »

Well worth spending the few extra bob on 3/4, we have 1/2 pipe in some areas and god it is painfully slow to refill the trough, cattle just standing around waiting for it to fill during the summer!!

The problems we found with slow to fill/undersized water troughs included bullying, with the strong ones forcing the weaker ones to go without water for considerable lengths of time, and physical damage to the trough and pipework. An empty trough is much lighter than a full one and is much easier to convert to a bovine 'football', leading to a mangled trough and a mud wallow with a pretty fountain in the middle of it.
3/4" and/or 1" supply pipes, low pressure/high flow float valves, and concrete troughs pretty much made those issues a thing of the past.

blue5000 · 26-04-2012 12:26pm

Anyone have concrete water troughs cracking in the 2 hard winters?

connormi · 26-04-2012 1:10pm

I think if going to trouble of laying water hose 3/4 is the minimum, and over long distances would ue inch or more. If theres iron in the water it wont be long blocking 1/2 inch piping.
Have a single leg mole plough modified to lay water hosing later in the year, if it works will make the job very easy with very little diturbance to fields. Got the idea from following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXHWGg3_rw

Tora Bora · 26-04-2012 1:27pm

connormi wrote: »

I think if going to trouble of laying water hose 3/4 is the minimum, and over long distances would ue inch or more. If theres iron in the water it wont be long blocking 1/2 inch piping.
Have a single leg mole plough modified to lay water hosing later in the year, if it works will make the job very easy with very little diturbance to fields. Got the idea from following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXHWGg3_rw

Onlt fella in that video doing a bit of work, is the garsoon, in the orange shirt;)

jfh · 26-04-2012 2:20pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone have concrete water troughs cracking in the 2 hard winters?

we had good concrete troughs from the dairying days & one of them cracked out of 5. got that blue waterproofing concrete adhesive and re-concreted over the botton, no good, still leaked.
be interesed to hear if there's a solution.

MfMan · 26-04-2012 4:24pm

jfh wrote: »

we had good concrete troughs from the dairying days & one of them cracked out of 5. got that blue waterproofing concrete adhesive and re-concreted over the botton, no good, still leaked.
be interesed to hear if there's a solution.

Hard frost cracked 2 troughs in me. One of them was split so badly along the base it was unusable. The other wasn't too bad, I put a good coat of sealant (black stuff, can't remember name) and it did the trick. For worse cases, you could try coating with a generous cover of quick-set cement, (maybe mix in a bit of bonding, dunno - not a tradesman). It taught me to empty them as completely as possible once the grazing season is finished.

Viewtodiefor · 26-04-2012 4:49pm

jfh wrote: »

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone have concrete water troughs cracking in the 2 hard winters?

we had good concrete troughs from the dairying days & one of them cracked out of 5. got that blue waterproofing concrete adhesive and re-concreted over the botton, no good, still leaked.
be interesed to hear if there's a solution.

Try tec7 on them it's good stuff!

Tipp Man · 26-04-2012 5:46pm

jfh wrote: »

we had good concrete troughs from the dairying days & one of them cracked out of 5. got that blue waterproofing concrete adhesive and re-concreted over the botton, no good, still leaked.
be interesed to hear if there's a solution.

there is

Mr JFC in Mayo or whereever he is;)

Bitten & Hisses · 26-04-2012 10:27pm

I only have plastic troughs in my place and I always try to keep them elevated (have used concrete blocks to date). Vet recommends to have the top of the trough a minimum of 3 feet off the ground. The problem is trying to keep the troughs on top of the concrete blocks. Does anyone else do anything similar, but better?

jerdee · 26-04-2012 11:17pm

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

I only have plastic troughs in my place and I always try to keep them elevated (have used concrete blocks to date). Vet recommends to have the top of the trough a minimum of 3 feet off the ground. The problem is trying to keep the troughs on top of the concrete blocks. Does anyone else do anything similar, but better?

i was just cleaning out iron from ballock this evening and i noticed the lad i have land taken from had concrete blocks inside plastic to keep them in place but it was a large one ...good idea i taught.

bob charles · 26-04-2012 11:32pm

straining wire knot if anyone is interested, I taught I had taken shots of figure 8 joining knots and end connections. A wire fence is only as good as its weakest link

spt88 · 26-04-2012 11:42pm

bob charles wrote: »

straining wire knot if anyone is interested

thats very professional looking!!

pakalasa · 27-04-2012 8:21am

Something similar, a Tex Brown knot;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-s5k6Kypk&feature=relmfu

Other good fencing videos too on the other Strainritefencing links.

bob charles · 27-04-2012 9:34am

I taught I was the only one that stood on the wire when tieing end insulators,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnFevQ5nLnA&feature=relmfu

the use of the Mexican hat that the guy talks about in the clip is a very good idea, as it take allot of the work out of getting central wires.

reilig · 27-04-2012 11:28am

Taking suggestions for new topics for next week. If a couple of people could post a topic that interests them, and if people want that topic, they should like it. (instead of the page filling up with a load of posts about nothing)

BeeDI · 27-04-2012 11:47am

reilig wrote: »

Taking suggestions for new topics for next week. If a couple of people could post a topic that interests them, and if people want that topic, they should like it. (instead of the page filling up with a load of posts about nothing)

May I suggest Reseeding as a topic.
Merits, methods, timing, weed control, costs, specific mix used and why, etc,.

B

blue5000 · 27-04-2012 1:31pm

What about breeding and fertility for next week?

LivInt20 · 27-04-2012 1:39pm

reilig wrote: »

Taking suggestions for new topics for next week. If a couple of people could post a topic that interests them, and if people want that topic, they should like it. (instead of the page filling up with a load of posts about nothing)

Profit Monitor

I strongly feel that Profit Monitor should be discussed next week.

This task must be completed in year 1 or year 2 and now would be a good time to complete Profit Monitor for the year 2011.

It is no good completing and discussing all other tasks, if we do not measure our performance via the Profit Monitor.

Members should complete a Profit Monitor in all three years of BTAP in order to show the profitability or not of the farm.

Tipp Man · 27-04-2012 1:41pm

Breeding and re-seeding are topical and relevant at this time of year

Profit monitor is for a cold winters day - ok so today is a cold winters day but still

PatQfarmer · 27-04-2012 1:45pm

reilig wrote: »

Taking suggestions for new topics for next week. If a couple of people could post a topic that interests them, and if people want that topic, they should like it. (instead of the page filling up with a load of posts about nothing)

Reseeding...particularly as I disced 6 acres 3 weeks ago and haven't been able to get near it since due to weather:mad:

Would say there will be a lot of it done when weather improves, as reseeds have really proven their worth over the past few weeks.
Opportune time, imo.
Thanks again for starting this thread, been really interesting so far.
Great fencing tips:)

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