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Tipping grave diggers?

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2

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    #32
    shalalala
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭shalalala


    Personally I pay the person a reasonable rate for a job well done and then don't tip. I never really understood tipping someone for just doing their job, that is unless they have amazing customer service. I cannot really see how that applies to a grave digger.

    However OP. If you are concerned that you would be going against the norm in your area, I would just ask the undertakers.


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    #33
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    Ok but the machine could have been on a job miles away, take into account the cost of moving it to the graveyard and back.
    A mini digger on a trailer behind a jeep not a big cost to move. The grave digger in my locality only moves his digger from one graveyard to another maybe a 10 mile radius.


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    #34
    big tommy
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭big tommy


    cerastes wrote: »
    Didnt say it was all done by digger, and I admit its hard work.
    I'm just asking if you get paid for it, if so, I dont understand the need for the family to expect to tip also.
    I think the tipping part may have come from a time when people werent paid and did this as a local.
    I dont know for sure, but I thought the gravediggers were either on the payroll of the council or did other maintenance work around the graveyards.

    I just feel its the kind of thing, putting out the hand to someone in a time of bereavement isnt nice (where they are paying for things at the cost they expect to be charged) to then effectively guilt someone into maintaining a tradition and having a few pieces of silver cross their hand too.



    I can appreciate that, but thats hardly the deceased family's concern, their concern is they just buried a relative.
    I'm not saying it isnt hard work, or you dont deserve a fair pay for the job you do, tipping on top of it, theres something that bothers me about tipping at times that are any landmark occasions in a person or familys life, the idea people should be made feel obligated to tip for fear of besmirching their dead relative or their own name because its a tradition, doesnt sit well with me.


    edit, out of curiosity, what value are we talking here?

    ok point takin .but take into account theres 8 courses taken and to be renewed often a digger to be paid for also you need a trailer and a jeep to pull it around and insurance also council insist that two men do the jod on health and saftey grounds also accountant phone fuel the list is endless around here the digger gets 400 total .im at a few years now and honestly my opinion is that people aint dying fast enough


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    #35
    bluemartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 188 ✭✭bluemartin


    As I no longer live in the said area and left many years ago I questioned my family as to the local practises regarding grave digging. They told me that people sometimes use local lads to dig the graves but it was normally those that had few financial resources and that it is now mostly done by the professionals apparently my brother told me it looks more impressive if the professional does it - Neighbours whispering etc. I was shocked I never thought there would be a stigma around who digs the grave.

    I would tip the local lads anyway but not the professionals.


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    #36
    Kevin McCloud
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    A mini digger on a trailer behind a jeep not a big cost to move.

    One would think that but remember you are wearing out the jeep and trailer, something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.


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    #37
    bluemartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 188 ✭✭bluemartin


    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.


    €500


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    #38
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    Diggers cost money to maintain and digging a grave ties them up for the day.

    I suppose they do cost money to maintain, Id expect them to be moved for a job to anywhere and to be held up anywhere for the length of time when ever they are used, that doesnt seem unusual to me, otherwise whats the point of having them, I wonder how many official diggers have insurance, didnt think of it before, if its infrequent and the work is uncertain then it can be easy to see how many would not bother, knowing they can do the job without extra hassle.
    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    Ok but the machine could have been on a job miles away, take into account the cost of moving it to the graveyard and back.

    Id say thats insignificant compared to the cost of already having the digger/trailer/vehicle to tow it, and given all of that is required to actually dig graves/holes in the ground.

    So any replies on the tip value, what are we talking here? 10, 20, 40, 50?


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    #39
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    One would think that but remember you are wearing out the jeep and trailer, something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.
    So a little tip will keep their jeep on the road.


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    #40
    Kevin McCloud
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    Pointless having a discussion with people who don't realise the costs involved in keeping machinery in working order. Clutch had to be done in jeep 6 months ago dropped almost a grand on it. A track motor went in the digger and had some other few jobs doing to it cost over 2 grand. Brakes needing overhauling in the trailer last year another grand.
    Its almost laughable the way people think we make fortunes, comparing their nissan micra running costs to contractors cost.


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    #41
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Kevin McCloud wrote: »
    Pointless having a discussion with people who don't realise the costs involved in keeping machinery in working order. Clutch had to be done in jeep 6 months ago dropped almost a grand on it. A track motor went in the digger and had some other few jobs doing to it cost over 2 grand. Brakes needing overhauling in the trailer last year another grand.
    Its almost laughable the way people think we make fortunes, comparing their nissan micra running costs to contractors cost.

    No one said you make fortunes or that you shouldnt be paid, but I dont think the tip is keeping everything going. or anything about a nissan micra, I must've missed that?

    The things you mentioned apportioned out over all the jobs are the cost of running those vehicles, I appreciate every penny counts, but I dont see why getting charged and then paying a tip is required also?
    Its not the obligation of the person to tip someone so they can fix the things they need to, isnt that what comes from being paid, again I appreciate that there often isnt enough to keep things going, but from a family perspective, it doesnt look great getting paid, what is a not insubstantial figure for most people by whats mentioned here, to then expect a tip also, personally Id rather someone partook of food and a few drinks but I expect that isnt practical these days or less likely and people would prefer cash, seems kinda grubby, either the cost of it covers it or it doesnt?


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    #42
    Schwiiing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Schwiiing


    Around here it's friends, neighbours and extended family that hand dig graves. I've dug around 10 graves in my time and never recieved any cash payment. Around here you get bottles of beer and whiskey during and after the digging and a hot meal after the burial.


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    #43
    bluemartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 188 ✭✭bluemartin


    Schwiiing wrote: »
    Around here it's friends, neighbours and extended family that hand dig graves. I've dug around 10 graves in my time and never recieved any cash payment. Around here you get bottles of beer and whiskey during and after the digging and a hot meal after the burial.


    It's the traditional way of doing it. A community effort and a sense of unity for all involved. It's all changing now another great loss to the rural way of life.


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    #44
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭h2005


    Why not charge what you perceive as a fair price and then there's no need for the whole tipping rubbish.


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    #45
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    When my father was buried the locals who dug the grave with picks and shovels and the help of some of the family were given £30 between them for opening and closing the grave by the family and also got a feed and few drinks. ten years later and the gravediggers that opened the same grave for my mother(A much easier task 2nd time around as the bedrock was not there and they used a mini-digger) were paid €120 each.

    That is some inflation!


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    #46
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    When my father was buried the locals who dug the grave with picks and shovels and the help of some of the family were given £30 between them for opening and closing the grave by the family and also got a feed and few drinks. ten years later and the gravediggers that opened the same grave for my mother(A much easier task 2nd time around as the bedrock was not there and they used a mini-digger) were paid €120 each.

    That is some inflation!

    Can you see why there might be a difference in cost? In the first instance it was family and friends, you gave them a €30 tip afterwards, the second time it was a professional, you paid them for their work, that's not inflation.

    Tipping can be customary and is always discretionary. We tip when paying for a meal, why? The meal is paid for but it is custom to tip the waiters. When I got married, it was custom to give a few quid to the sarchristian, I top cabbies but again I'm not sure why, so I don't see the big deal in tipping a grave digger a few quid, they have taken care to prepare the last resting place for your loved one, they take care to close it afterward. To me that is personal and i would not mind giving them a few quid for a job well done.

    From a practical perspective, I doubt the grave diggers can go on to another job afterward so they are being paid a day's wages. Typically for a labourer in construction that is €130, plus they have to transport the digger, pay fuel, insurance etc (someone asked why you would need insurance, every time you bring machinery onto someone else's land, you are responcable for any damage done, any injury caused etc, I shudder to think what the response would be if a digger driver damaged the headstone on another grave), maintenance etc.

    Lastly, as with all charges that people complain are excessive, if you don't like it, don't pay it, dig it yourself if you think the gravediggers are overpaid.


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    #47
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Had deleted my post there

    The council do it in Galway City anyway. The council will change their own fee, I was just posting about tipping council workers


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    #48
    iano.p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭iano.p


    I have hand dug graves here with a few other local lads and never got any cash for it sometimes it's a bottle of whiskey dropped into the house. I wouldn't take cash because at some stage I will need one dug.


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    #49
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    hfallada wrote: »
    I actually studied grave digging in sociology in University( I know its random). But was a prime example of the standardisation of Irish society. How Grave digging is no longer done by locals, but by professionals. Grave diggers require regular training courses, they have to be approved with certain councils and need insurance. That €200 is significantly less after taxes and expenses/

    There is so much wrong with that! Firstly, some graves are dug by locals - one dug here only last month by locals by hand and another a few months back. There is not regular trainer for anybody who might use a digger for graves.
    As for 200 being less after taxes and expenses: so is any person's pay. It is still €200 cost to the family ofbtbe deceased.


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    #50
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Arielle Teeny Soccer wrote: »
    There is so much wrong with that! Firstly, some graves are dug by locals - one dug here only last month by locals by hand and another a few months back. There is not regular trainer for anybody who might use a digger for graves.
    As for 200 being less after taxes and expenses: so is any person's pay. It is still €200 cost to the family ofbtbe deceased.

    Arielle Teeny Soccer a quick google of "grave digging regulations" shows there are health &safety guidelines and certification required for grave diggers in county council run graveyards. In fact a scan of the articles seems to show that undertakers can only engage the services of diggers who have that certification. Mad isn't it?

    You are right, €200 is €200 whether it's gross or net, but payment due is payment due regardless of the circumstances.


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    #51
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    If professional gravediggers can't cover their costs I doubt getting a tip will help them. Is it like a lot of professions get bigger or get out. Surely if you are only digging one or two graves a week that it isn't your sole income?


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    #52
    Deminiman
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭Deminiman


    Kerryman1973 wrote: »
    A little advice needed please - a friend mine told me that it is customary to give a tip to a grave digger. Where I am the undertaker pays the grave digger. Has anyone come across this practise? How much would a reasonable tip be?

    In some areas it is customary to give a bottle of whiskey/brandy, or 100 cigarettes I've seen also. Your undertaker will let you know anyway if you ask. It would be nice to give something if you had it to give.


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    #53
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    Much more than €200 in some places.

    From the Tipperary Star in 2008, probably more now.

    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/local-news/thurles-estimates-briefs-1-2267403

    The charge for opening and filling in graves ranges from E475.00 to E750.00

    I can't find where I saw the charges listed before, but it costs more at weekends and public holidays.


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    #54
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    brightspark wrote: »
    Much more than €200 in some places.

    From the Tipperary Star in 2008, probably more now.

    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/local-news/thurles-estimates-briefs-1-2267403




    I can't find where I saw the charges listed before, but it costs more at weekends and public holidays.
    That would more than cover their costs, sounds very expensive to me. The undertaker takes care of all the bills around here and charges the customer I wonder do they mark up prices here and there?


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    #55
    rule supreme
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭rule supreme


    I use to dig graves with another man for years , just using picks and shovels and spades, we never got any tips ,we got paid for our work and were happy with that , so no need to tip anyone unless you want to .We got paid 100 each for old graves and 150 each for new graves .The new graves you would earn every cent .


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    #56
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    sh1tstirrer wrote: »
    That would more than cover their costs, sounds very expensive to me. The undertaker takes care of all the bills around here and charges the customer I wonder do they mark up prices here and there?

    I always find posts like this strange, do you know exactly what the costs associated with a job are? Do you know how much the repayments on a digger are? Do you know how much insurance costs are? Transport costs? Do you know value a service provider puts on a days labour? If not, how do you know if €200 covers the costs?


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    #57
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    davo10 wrote: »
    Srameen a quick google of "grave digging regulations" shows there are health &safety guidelines and certification required for grave diggers in county council run graveyards. In fact a scan of the articles seems to show that undertakers can only engage the services of diggers who have that certification. Mad isn't it?

    You are right, €200 is €200 whether it's gross or net, but payment due is payment due regardless of the circumstances.

    County council run graveyards. By no means the majority of graveyards so. Of course co co graveyards are different. In fact in the town near us the gravediggers are council employees with their own council diggers. But again only one graveyard among dozens in the county.


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    #58
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Arielle Teeny Soccer wrote: »
    County council run graveyards. By no means the majority of graveyards so. Of course co co graveyards are different. In fact in the town near us the gravediggers are council employees with their own council diggers. But again only one graveyard among dozens in the county.

    Who owns the majority of grave yards? Who do you pay to buy a plot?

    From Citizens Advice Website:

    Burial grounds (cemeteries) in Ireland are the responsibility of the local authorities, who operate many of them and appoint a registrar or caretaker for each of their burial ground to manage the sale of plots in that site, and in some cases to maintain the burial ground. Parishes operate some burial grounds


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    #59
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    davo10 wrote: »
    I always find posts like this strange, do you know exactly what the costs associated with a job are? Do you know how much the repayments on a digger are? Do you know how much insurance costs are? Transport costs? Do you know value a service provider puts on a days labour? If not, how do you know if €200 covers the costs?

    You find my post strange then ask 20 questions when you could have asked with one. Owning and operating farm machinery and diggers I know very well the costs involved. €200 is what was said they charge on here if it doesn't pay just up the charge.


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    #60
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    sh1tstirrer wrote: »
    You find my post strange then ask 20 questions when you could have asked with one. Owning and operating farm machinery and diggers I know very well the costs involved. €200 is what was said they charge on here if it doesn't pay just up the charge.

    You said €200 should cover the costs, ok my one question is, do you know how much the costs are? And my next question would be, if you do know, can you give us a breakdown to validate your statement that the costs are covered?

    I find it strange as you don't work in the industry, that you sure that €200 should cover all costs and that in fact you feel that €200 is on the expensive side. Assuming the grave opener charges for a days labour with costs on top, I don't see how you would know whether €200 covers it or not.

    Another poster said he dug it by hand with another person, they are paid €100 - €150 each and that they earn every cent.


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    #61
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    davo10 wrote: »
    You said €200 should cover the costs, ok my one question is, do you know how much the costs are? And my next question would be, if you do know, can you give us a breakdown to validate your statement that the costs are covered?

    Ok you are being childish now. A poster put up a link where gravedigging costs are between 475 and 750 I said those prices would more than cover the cost.


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