Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

kryogen · 22-01-2015 12:34am

padraig_f wrote: »

You think breaking the rules to gain competitive advantage is a non-issue?

You and I have pretty different ideas about sport if that's the case.

Me? No need to even get into my own feelings, you and a hell of a lot of professionals and people around the sport itself have pretty different ideas going by the comments coming out.

kryogen · 22-01-2015 12:41am

I like you in exile. I like you and everyone like you, ye make me smile

In a weird way I am beginning to enjoy the salivating that is going on, the ****e talk from sections of the media, the seemingly gospel rumours that they are reporting and those who repeat them as fact. Its just funny

Its a nice distraction from the Pro Bowl actually and gives a couple of the lads in work something to jeer me about, the worst thing that should come out of it is that it makes the team even tighter and more up for the fight that will be the superbowl. Will need every ounce of competitiveness against the Seahawaks. Anything that pulls the group together and invokes the siege mentality should be good really.

Jaysus, Bill probably instigated this investigation himself! Deflating one ball and giving it to the Colts.... Genius

In Exile · 22-01-2015 12:52am

Vanolder wrote: »

Work on Monday will be good for you, will take your mind off the Pats winning. I'd fear for you if you had the day off to think about that.

That's why I'll probably work from home.

If the Pats win and I trash the place I won't get sacked...... I may get dumped but at least I'll still have my job!

Areyouwell · 22-01-2015 12:55am

As a Colts fan I find the whole faux outrage to be laughable and beyond ridiculous. And I wouldn't like to be associated with some of the nonsense tbh. It's an unfortunate reality but the Pats have thrashed us in our last 4 meetings. And they didn't need deflated balls, intentional or otherwise to beat us. Losing by an average score of 48-23 has nothing to do with over inflation or under inflation of a football, but everything to do with being outplayed and outcoached. Then we have the points scored, the Pats scored more points in the second half with the proper balls, than they didn't in the first half with underinflated balls.

Then we have the painfully reality of the Pats O line running all over us. Like they have in our last several meetings. We knew what they were going to do and we couldn't stop them. So what the partial deflation of a football has got to do with being outplayed is beyond me. And as someone who uses Physics and it's laws on a daily basis at work. Deflating a ball is the last thing I would want, the loss of aerodynamic patency from the surface area of the ball, reduces velocity and more importantly - the accuracy of a thrown ball. Throw in the strong crosswinds during the game and if anything, I would be overinflating the ball to increase the accuracy and pass velocity to compensate for the wind. So no, I'm not going to delude myself and say we were robbed, because we simply weren't.

poldebruin · 22-01-2015 1:06am

USC were caught doing this very thing (under Lane Kiffin) in 2012. They found a ball boy to have acted alone in that case. Besides being relieved of his duties, no further action was taken.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/dr-saturday/usc-footballs-student-manager-fired-intentionally-deflating-game-150806164--ncaaf.html[/URL

In response to Areyouwell, most of your post is missing the point. Nobody (that I have read) is saying anything about the footballs contributing to the loss or questioning that the better team won. But the outcome of the game is irrelevant in this case. The fact that the balls were not NFL regulation (and that it may have been an organisational decision) is relevant.

Areyouwell · 22-01-2015 1:14am

poldebruin wrote: »

In response to Areyouwell, most of your post is missing the point. Nobody (that I have read) is saying anything about the footballs contributing to the loss or questioning that the better team won. But the outcome of the game is irrelevant in this case. The fact that the balls were not NFL regulation NFL (and that it may have been an organisational decision) is relevant.

And you completely missed my point. As a Colts fan, I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. It's a compete non-issue for me, of course some with agendas and chips on their shoulders are trying to make hay while the sun shines. But any Colts fans I know, well they're mostly bemused by the whole thing.

In Exile · 22-01-2015 1:24am

Areyouwell wrote: »

And you completely missed my point. As a Colts fan, I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. It's a compete non-issue for me, of course some with agendas and chips on their shoulders are trying to make hay while the sun shines. But any Colts fans I know, well they're mostly bemused by the whole thing.

I don't think it has anything to do with chips on shoulders. Whether blown out of proportion or not, this is the second time they have been accused of cheating.
The result is inconsequential. I think even the most diehard Colts fans would have said before the game it would have taken a miracle to win. It's the going outside of regulation by a team who have been found guilty of doing so before.

poldebruin · 22-01-2015 1:42am

Areyouwell wrote: »

And you completely missed my point. As a Colts fan, I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. It's a compete non-issue for me, of course some with agendas and chips on their shoulders are trying to make hay while the sun shines. But any Colts fans I know, well they're mostly bemused by the whole thing.

I didn't miss it at all.... The point you were trying to make: That the Colts were terrible in the game and deserved to lose, deflated balls or otherwise. You're not bothered by it so nobody else should be (indeed you see discussion of it as laughable)

Alfred Borden · 22-01-2015 2:41am

Colts fan here and with any type of ball Sunday night, the Patriots would have trashed us and so I wish them well against Seattle. However if its found to be true that they have done this, its something totally against the spirit of the game and hope they are reprimanded strongly with loss of high draft picks. If not, I hope it goes away very quickly so we can focus on this mouthwatering game coming up.

Areyouwell · 22-01-2015 4:13am

poldebruin wrote: »

I didn't miss it at all.... The point you were trying to make: That the Colts were terrible in the game and deserved to lose, deflated balls or otherwise. You're not bothered by it so nobody else should be (indeed you see discussion of it as laughable)

Good man, you got the point. Colts fans accept and know the ball hadn't nothing to do with our loss. Afaik, non-Colts fans can fly the flag of faux outrage all they want.

poldebruin · 22-01-2015 5:46am

Areyouwell wrote: »

Good man, you got the point. Colts fans accept and know the ball hadn't nothing to do with our loss. Afaik, non-Colts fans can fly the flag of faux outrage all they want.

Yes I got the redundant point you made. Nobody is arguing the ball contributed to the loss. Some people are bothered that a non regulation ball was used in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.

kryogen · 22-01-2015 8:56am

poldebruin wrote: »

Yes I got the redundant point you made. Nobody is arguing the ball contributed to the loss. Some people are bothered that a non regulation ball was used in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.

Be nice if this was proved before being constantly stated as fact.

bruschi · 22-01-2015 9:19am

kryogen wrote: »

Be nice if this was proved before being constantly stated as fact.

regardless of the findings, get used to pretty much everyone noting it as fact from now on.

Realt Dearg Sec · 22-01-2015 9:57am

As a Kilkenny fan, I sympathise with pats fans: when you're consistently successful, other fans will look for,and find, ways of attributing the success to some kind of cheating. Sure, they'll say something like "I admire what Cody/Belichick has done to make the team as great as it is, it's just a shame they have to resort to dirty play/stretching rules/underhand tactics" but the effect is to undermine the achievement (they will also say things like "Kilkenny/Patriots are agreat team and shouldn't NEED to do these things") Fortunately sport is not a popularity contest, so you don't have to care, and can learn to relish the envy.

Now as someone who resents and envies that success: carry on.

bruschi · 22-01-2015 10:06am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

As a Kilkenny fan, I sympathise with pats fans: when you're consistently successful, other fans will look for,and find, ways of attributing the success to some kind of cheating. Sure, they'll say something like "I admire what Cody/Belichick has done to make the team as great as it is, it's just a shame they have to resort to dirty play/stretching rules/underhand tactics" but the effect is to undermine the achievement (they will also say things like "Kilkenny/Patriots are agreat team and shouldn't NEED to do these things") Fortunately sport is not a popularity contest, so you don't have to care, and can learn to relish the envy.

Now as someone who resents and envies that success: carry on.

g'way outta dat. Kilkenny are filthy scumbags and Tommy Walsh is nothing but a dirty so and so. Barry Kelly, Henry Shefflin, etc etc blah blah blah*.

* yeah I get what you are saying, and would agree. I'd add Man Utd to that too, or Barca now and what they have done, and so many other examples. When a team gets on top, everyone wants to knock them asap. When Brady and Belichick retire (substitute Cody and Shefflin) and the Patriots go back to mediocrity again and you have the Bills back beating them regularly (subsitute Wexford in there:cool:) then no one will care about them and will start to feel sorry/like them.

Pretty much any of the sensible reports or talk shows I've been following over the last few days have said this would have blown over and been a non issue if it was any other team. If the price of success means people hate your team, then so be it. The Patriots have given people further reasons to hate them, but sure so be it. A lot of teams have had worse transgressions than a slightly deflated ball but hasnt caused half the uproar that this has.

adrian522 · 22-01-2015 10:30am

https://twitter.com/Kat_Terrell/status/558071347528859651

eagle eye · 22-01-2015 10:46am

poldebruin wrote: »

Yes I got the redundant point you made. Nobody is arguing the ball contributed to the loss. Some people are bothered that a non regulation ball was used in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.

So let's just say its proven that this did happen and then it's proven that every team in the league has done this at some stage over the past couple of seaons, what should happen to the Patriots? Should they be the ones punished or should every team be punished?

We already have other players admitting their team has done this.

kryogen · 22-01-2015 10:58am

adrian522 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Kat_Terrell/status/558071347528859651

Was funny, you can see what else he says here

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000461932/article/andrew-luck-things-can-be-blown-out-of-proportion

"I don't know. Things in the media tend to be blown out of proportion a little bit," he said. "It's the nature in where we are today in society. You can't take anything away from them being a heck of a team and they are a good football team."

Crazy huh, another person in the game who is of the mind this is being blown out of proportion

bruschi · 22-01-2015 11:24am

eagle eye wrote: »

So let's just say its proven that this did happen and then it's proven that every team in the league has done this at some stage over the past couple of seaons, what should happen to the Patriots? Should they be the ones punished or should every team be punished?

We already have other players admitting their team has done this.

it didnt happen the last time and it wont happen this time. Patriots were caught, and were made an example of and it will be the same again. Saints had the same thing too with the bounty gate thing, despite it being widely accepted it was happening elsewhere.

22-01-2015 12:14pm

Only entering this discussion now hopefully it hasn't been said before but the Pats have been caught cheating before. So obviously everyone will go wild when they find out they're manipulating the rules again, I'm not going to say the deflating is cheating as the whole league "breaks in" the ball before games depending on the QB. Only thing lending this story any fire is that it's the Pats, there's begrudgery and their track record to point to.
Belichick can't afford any more lapses in this regard, he should know everyone will come down on his team like a tonne of bricks for doing something the whole league does but more frowned upon than thought illegal.
I expect them to be fined a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick at the least. Just so Goodell can put a lovely bow on this ****storm of a year.

eagle eye · 22-01-2015 12:29pm

As just pointed out a few posts before yours, the Pats paid a huge price for Spygate even though everybody was doing that too.

The Saints paid a huge price for Bountygate even though everybody was at it too.

This is the sad thing about it, it doesn't seem to matter if other teams were at it. All that seems to matter is how the media reacts as has been seen in recent times with the Ray Rice situation.

Jolly Red Giant · 22-01-2015 1:48pm

eagle eye wrote: »

As just pointed out a few posts before yours, the Pats paid a huge price for Spygate even though everybody was doing that too.

The Saints paid a huge price for Bountygate even though everybody was at it too.

This is the sad thing about it, it doesn't seem to matter if other teams were at it. All that seems to matter is how the media reacts as has been seen in recent times with the Ray Rice situation.

Normal nonsense - everyone is at it - its like Enda and the rest saying 'everyone partied' during the bubble. :rolleyes:

The Pats are constantly embroiled in this kind of stuff because they ARE doing it and they get caught.

bruschi · 22-01-2015 2:16pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Normal nonsense - everyone is at it - its like Enda and the rest saying 'everyone partied' during the bubble. :rolleyes:

The Pats are constantly embroiled in this kind of stuff because they ARE doing it and they get caught.

what were the other things that they were constantly embroiled in?

Vanolder · 22-01-2015 2:25pm

When are the NFL going to speak on this?

NotYourYear20 · 22-01-2015 2:45pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Normal nonsense - everyone is at it - its like Enda and the rest saying 'everyone partied' during the bubble. :rolleyes:

The Pats are constantly embroiled in this kind of stuff because they ARE doing it and they get caught.

Oh the Irony, a Broncos fan preaching about cheating. You need to do some research and see how the Broncos persistency cheated and manipulated the salary cap. Former Oakland Raiders owner, the late Al Davis, repeatedly stated that he believed the Denver Broncos stole both their Super Bowls. Because they blatantly cheated and circumvented the league salary cap. They built a squad they should never have had, if they had of adhered to the Salary Cap rules.

adrian522 · 22-01-2015 2:46pm

Well if Al Davis said it...

22-01-2015 2:51pm

Would Pats fans accept that, whatever about the gravity of the allegations, there has been shift in emphasis, in posts here at least.

When the story first broke the suggestion was that it did not happen at all, and there was a debate as to why it would be done and the marginal benefit it conferred, if any. Now it seems to be that it did, but it happens all the time and it's a thing if nothing. As a matter of idle interest, did any Pats fan make the "happens all the time" point last Monday?

Neither of which means it is a huge deal, of course.

Hazys · 22-01-2015 3:06pm

I'd prefer if the report was delayed a couple more days. It seems the longer it goes on, the talking heads are seeming to lose steam in the SCANDALMANIA style of reporting and the more actual NFL people are actually commenting on it and saying its not as big of a deal.

Today, Andrew Luck says its blown out of proportion, Richard Sherman said it would have no affect on the game...but lets see what Serena Williams has to say "My Dolphins would never do such a thing".

Bill Belichick is having his press conference in 30 minutes. It could be interesting to if he tries to nip it in the butt and answer Qs but since the findings in the investigation are not out yet, i think he'll answer every Q with a huffed "I'm waiting for the investigation to end" which for Pats fans is 100x more entertaining.

eagle eye · 22-01-2015 3:09pm

Hazys wrote: »

I'd prefer if the report was delayed a couple more days. It seems the longer it goes on, the talking heads are seeming to lose steam in the SCANDALMANIA style of reporting and the more actual NFL people are actually commenting on it and saying its not as big of a deal.

Today, Andrew Luck says its blown out of proportion, Richard Sherman said it would have no affect on the game...but lets see what Serena Williams has to say "My Dolphins would never do such a thing".

Bill Belichick is having his press conference in 30 minutes. It could be interesting to if he tries to nip it in the butt and answer Qs but since the findings in the investigation are not out yet, i think he'll answer every Q with a huffed "I'm waiting for the investigation to end" which for Pats fans is 100x more entertaining.

He was on to Seattle right after the game last weekend.:D

Hazys · 22-01-2015 3:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Would Pats fans accept that, whatever about the gravity of the allegations, there has been shift in emphasis, in posts here at least.

When the story first broke the suggestion was that it did not happen at all, and there was a debate as to why it would be done and the marginal benefit it conferred, if any. Now it seems to be that it did, but it happens all the time and it's a thing if nothing. As a matter of idle interest, did any Pats fan make the "happens all the time" point last Monday?

Neither of which means it is a huge deal, of course.

TBH i didnt like most fans know much about the process and at the time it seemed like a ridiculous story and still with the media frenzy, it still seems like a ridiculous over blown story.

Only difference now is I'm well versed now the ins and out of ball pressure; how it can be affected by 10 degrees of weather change, what the NFL allowed levels of pressure are, etc. I've learned more about NFL ball regulations and how players doctor the ball to their preferences, etc than I every cared to.

Can't wait for the next NFL scandal, I've always wanted to brush up on my knowledge on the allowed length of player's cleats.

I would also say in the same timeframe that posts from some non-Pats fans has changed too. There is a shift in the hysteria of people wondering should their being an AFC Championship replay to will the Pats get punished with an early or late round pick?

Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

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