The Billy Meier UFO case Switzerland

tonybodhran · 12-06-2012 6:52pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I could say the same about the Bible, over two thousand years old, still being talked about today & none of it has been disproved. Just because a story catches on, & has lots of literature/discussion etc, doesn't make it any more real.

Why so defensive? No, it wouldn't take full disclosure for me to believe in it...but I would need something real, something tangible. Questionable photos/stories etc are not going to convince me. I need more than just one mans word.

To be fair to you, I do find the whole thing interesting & I would like to be as versed in the story as you are...I just find the available evidence offputting. I know you hate people going on about the photos, but look at it from the laymans point of view...what's the point investing the time & effort to really test this case...when the immediate evidence looks so bad. Surely you can see where people are coming from?

I don't understand what you mean...try again

The bible is a collection of stories from over 40 different authors mainly consisting of myth and allegory, the stories have been put together over hundreds of years from multiple sources and many of the stories themselves have their origins in older stories not connected with christianity. It's hardly something you could claim as being an accurate description of anything and is inherently illogical.

I'll go into the gospels in my next post.

I'm not being defensive , I was making a joke. I'm actually glad someone is discussing it instead of dismissing it with out thinking about it. This is the whole point of the information, to get people to think about concepts that are strange to them. But to answer your second question, the message is about the spiritual nature of man,it's not about convincing you that aliens exist, yes I agree that some of the evidence looks bad , on the other hand some of the evidence looks good, so it's meant to reach people who have the capability of discernment, not just about whether you have the ability to look up billy meier hoax and read what it says but look at the whole picture. It's incredibly complicated and not what it appears at a quick glance. For me it seems to have been done in a very deliberate way and this in itself shows great intelligence in the planning.

I posted up something in another forum a while ago which explains what I think of it, here it is:
"my thinking on this is that the evidence was given in a very specific way for a very specific reason. It was always stated that the Plejaran would never ‘land on the white house lawn’. This type of in your face evidence would forcibly change peoples world view and conceptions of life the universe and everything and is a course of action which is denied for that very reason.

Billy’s evidence is a perfect example of how to introduce concepts to people who are ready for it and bypass those who cannot or will not accept them. To have filmed Billy in the act of actually firing a laser gun and burning a hole in the tree is equivalent to the other forcible type of interference in a culture, this film if it had been taken would have been absolutely impossible to fake in the circumstances surrounding Billy at the time.

The same goes for your other suggestions such as Billy walking up to a 21 meter craft and touching it, there is no way this could be anything other than real and any evidence like this given to the public would have had many negative consequences. Billy’s real mission was to bring the true teachings of creation back to the earth. There isn’t a hope in hell as the saying goes of Billy being able to accomplish anything at all had something like this been released to the public. As we know from the contact notes even with the evidence Billy provided he was bombarded by people from all over the world calling to his house on a daily basis, can you imagine what would have happened if he had provided the evidence you suggested?

Billy would have had to go into hiding at the very least. He may have been taken by the military/government, every nut case in the world would show up at his door step. The message he was gently trying to spread into human consciousness over a period of hundreds of years would be forced onto a human population unable to process it and could cause the collapse of society as we know it. The result of this if it happened is unknown but you can imagine it wouldn’t be pretty.

For me the way the evidence actually was presented is itself proof enough of an incredible advanced intellect involved in the process. Every picture taken in a precise way so as to give an out for anyone who can’t accept what they are seeing, every piece of hard evidence also given in a way that taken at a cursory glance can appear as something else mundane etc.

Most of the evidence though if analysed and cogitated on provides ample proof of extraterrestrial involvement for those willing to put in the time and effort into it.

In my mind there was no other way to do this, to keep the idea of extraterrestrial life in the public eye for decades while not forcing the reality onto people, to introduce those ready for spiritual change to the information and to give Billy the time to complete his mission of writing down the most important teachings in mankind’s history. I think it was masterfully done and it’s still being done right now."

I'm not sure how I can rephrase my last question...

Ok....So theoretically You are an extraterrestrial race that had ancestors who lived here on earth many thousands of years ago, your ancestors were thousands of years ahead of the natives on earth at the time but were essentially assholes allowed themselves to be worshiped as gods thereby interfering with the natural evolution of their spiritual development which would most likely and logically have been based on the observation of the laws of nature, life death rebirth growth evolution change..etc

A few thousand years later after they buggered off the world is in a complete mess and no one has a clue about their real spiritual nature and spend most of their time on their knees begging to be saved because they think someone must be God up there in the sky because as far as they know one was here not so long ago and buggered off after he was nailed to a cross.

So You the current more enlightened Extraterrestrials decide to give the poor mistreated natives a hand out of their misery, but because of your "prime directive" that most evolved beings follow you can't directly interfere with them as that would be tantamount to doing it for them and so also interfere with the natural process of evolution
Keep in mind that the majority of the planet is deeply mired in various religious beliefs and tend to knock seven bells out of anyone who doesn't believe their particular system, this has taken thousands of years to arrive in this state and may take some time to get out of it.
Also keep in mind that the leaders of most of the worlds governments are also deeply mired in religion and the majority of them are self serving corrupt individuals who do not have the interest of humanity at heart.
Also keep in mind that you can't give them too much information because if it's something that they have yet to discover then it could be dangerous for them not to go through the process of figuring it out for themselves.
Also keep in mind that if you are discovered they may want your technology which seeing that you are thousands of years ahead of them they would most likely destroy themselves with it or even worse bring religion out of their own solar system and contaminate other races with their insanity.
Oh yes and also don't forget that they need to get a message that can not be misconstrued or altered by the person receiving it and it must survive indefinitely in this form for all time now that everyone can read.

So how would you go about doing this??

tonybodhran · 12-06-2012 7:18pm

squonk wrote: »

I would still select a number of people to distribute the message to. On a practical level, look at the odds. I can only speak for Catholicism as it's the religion I'm familiar with. That started off with a guy basically doing the equivalent of landing on the White House lawn 2000 years ago. Like Meier, everything he did was written down word for word, dutifully recorded by his disciples. What happened next however is that others begun to interpret what was written and varying viewpoints started to emerge. Even 800 years later there were quite a few differences beginning to emerge amongst various groups. Today however the original message is still there, though blurred by time and translation but the overall community of those who follow the original message is relatively strong.

Imagine for a moment that things had been different and Jesus had appeared as a series of apparitions revealing a particular philosophy to, lets say, Peter. Peter we will assume, took down all of the teachings word for word and even made some drawings of the apparitions and described in great details the circumstances those apparitions took place. Let's assume that he was able to be as detailed as Billy Meier. Imagine too that those with vested interests did their best to discredit Peter and his work and a lot of controversy ensued at the time. Now lets move forward four or five generations. Who remembers Peter or the core nature of the message? I believe that he's now seen as a bit of an eccentric with a strange belief in a message he was shown by some etherial being but that so much controversy existed at the time that it is doubtful whether what he said was actually credible. Would Peter have remained important for the subsequent 800 years it might take for the message to take root? I'd highly doubt it.

Now, let's assume that instead of appearing to only just Peter, Jesus had instead decided to appear to a group of people from various parts of the world but that his one stipulation was that they recorded all of the meetings as accurately as was possible for them. In this case I think there is a much higher probability that the overall message would have stood the test of time. It might not gain the popularity that Christianity did but it would nonetheless be a strong force as multiple similar accounts would force the realisation that there was something more to what happened. In the case of Christianity it took a guy roaming around Gallilee for three years performing out of this world feats to have the whole concept stick. Even now in the noughties, a mere 40 years later, if somebody had asked me this time last year who Billy Meier was, I'd have shaken my head. An immense amount of people neither know nor care about the Billy Meier controversy. I find it very unlikely that this is the outcome an alien race were going for.

Ok. Few differences in what you are talking about and what I'm talking about.
The person known as Jesus did not have people writing down his every move and word as it happened, the gospels were written somewhere between 30 and 50 years after his death and there is enough discrepancy between the various gospels to deduce that most of it is at best hearsay.
How good is your recall? Would you be able to remember anything exactly word for word from a conversation 30 years from now?? Would you even be able to remember the conversation, I think at best you might be able to remember what it made you think about and even that may have been changed dramatically by the events that happened to you in the 30 years following.

In regards to Meier being important for the next 800 years, he's not, he has no interest in being a cult figure, all he wants to do is get the information down. Things will happen in a natural progression, the information is now there stored unadulterated and kept so for whoever wants to read it, there is no chance of it being changed or altered, it will be the same message in 800 years as it is now, that's the point, it's the message not the messenger, venerating messengers is how religions start. Then someone puts there own spin on it and we have another religion and so on..

In regards to an immense amount of people not knowing about Billy Meier, there are an immense amount of people who are nowhere near being able to even comprehend what he is talking about so it doesn't really matter, they would sooner blow you up or burn you alive than change their belief systems. This is a long process that starts with individuals and contemplation which over time will slowly spread out and change the nature of how people see the world.

And if you don't like it then fine it's not for you , I have no problem with that but it's illogical to say the whole thing is bull**** if you don't even know what it is he's talking about. I don't mean you personally.

Myrddin · 12-06-2012 10:13pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

Well written & thought out post

Nice post. Nicely worded, nicely explained, & make for nice debate. Cheers:)

Ok, to address some of it:

The bible is a collection of stories from over 40 different authors mainly consisting of myth and allegory, the stories have been put together over hundreds of years from multiple sources and many of the stories themselves have their origins in older stories not connected with christianity. It's hardly something you could claim as being an accurate description of anything and is inherently illogical.

All true, & a belief I'd share. I don't want to offend anyone's faith here, faith is something that should be respected I think, but you'd think that given the majority of the worlds population believe in one supernatural deity or another, they'd have no problem believing in the simple notion of cultures from other planets.

They don't though, well most don't. And this is something the aliens would be aware of surely, surely they know we're a barbarous species, consumed by greed, conquest & personal gain...with a religious meets science approach to most things. We're a dangerous bunch, & any message, even a non interference type, needs to be loud & clear enough for us to hear before we're all wiped out?

I agree, that full on contact isn't considered an effective message...but neither is what Meier is saying. I'm largely sure his message goes unheard to all but the most devout of his believers? Surely, there's a better way for us to hear this message??

But to answer your second question, the message is about the spiritual nature of man,it's not about convincing you that aliens exist, yes I agree that some of the evidence looks bad , on the other hand some of the evidence looks good, so it's meant to reach people who have the capability of discernment, not just about whether you have the ability to look up billy meier hoax and read what it says but look at the whole picture. It's incredibly complicated and not what it appears at a quick glance. For me it seems to have been done in a very deliberate way and this in itself shows great intelligence in the planning.

I hear what your saying. Given the message is about waking up spiritually, I think it'd carry much more weight if we were told by beings not of this world...rather than risk Meier being labelled as something like this

I mean, if such a message was delivered by extra terrestrials somehow, I know I'd sit up & listen! But when it's yet another man, with yet another message, aw, I dunno...I guess I just don't take any notice as he's likely a loon. Maybe that's the beauty of the message though, & I'm not ready to here it? Who knows!

I posted up something in another forum a while ago which explains what I think of it, here it is:
"my thinking on this is that the evidence was given in a very specific way for a very specific reason. It was always stated that the Plejaran would never ‘land on the white house lawn’. This type of in your face evidence would forcibly change peoples world view and conceptions of life the universe and everything and is a course of action which is denied for that very reason.

Billy’s evidence is a perfect example of how to introduce concepts to people who are ready for it and bypass those who cannot or will not accept them. To have filmed Billy in the act of actually firing a laser gun and burning a hole in the tree is equivalent to the other forcible type of interference in a culture, this film if it had been taken would have been absolutely impossible to fake in the circumstances surrounding Billy at the time.

Yeah, I agree this would fit the agenda of such a message. No flaws in the logic here.

The same goes for your other suggestions such as Billy walking up to a 21 meter craft and touching it, there is no way this could be anything other than real and any evidence like this given to the public would have had many negative consequences. Billy’s real mission was to bring the true teachings of creation back to the earth. There isn’t a hope in hell as the saying goes of Billy being able to accomplish anything at all had something like this been released to the public. As we know from the contact notes even with the evidence Billy provided he was bombarded by people from all over the world calling to his house on a daily basis, can you imagine what would have happened if he had provided the evidence you suggested?

Billy would have had to go into hiding at the very least. He may have been taken by the military/government, every nut case in the world would show up at his door step. The message he was gently trying to spread into human consciousness over a period of hundreds of years would be forced onto a human population unable to process it and could cause the collapse of society as we know it. The result of this if it happened is unknown but you can imagine it wouldn’t be pretty.

Hmm, I dunno about this. If it were real, Meier was chosen to deliever the most important message mankind has ever received. He was going to have to step up on the world stage, because otherwise, the message would be lost. You can't whisper out this kind of thing.

Most of the evidence though if analysed and cogitated on provides ample proof of extraterrestrial involvement for those willing to put in the time and effort into it.

Ok, I'll ask for your help with this one. Where should I start, without wanting to read reams & reams of material...is there any source I can examine on a point by point basis that goes through the evidence?

Ok....So theoretically You are an extraterrestrial race that had ancestors who lived here on earth many thousands of years ago, your ancestors were thousands of years ahead of the natives on earth at the time but were essentially assholes allowed themselves to be worshiped as gods thereby interfering with the natural evolution of their spiritual development which would most likely and logically have been based on the observation of the laws of nature, life death rebirth growth evolution change..etc

A few thousand years later after they buggered off the world is in a complete mess and no one has a clue about their real spiritual nature and spend most of their time on their knees begging to be saved because they think someone must be God up there in the sky because as far as they know one was here not so long ago and buggered off after he was nailed to a cross.

So You the current more enlightened Extraterrestrials decide to give the poor mistreated natives a hand out of their misery, but because of your "prime directive" that most evolved beings follow you can't directly interfere with them as that would be tantamount to doing it for them and so also interfere with the natural process of evolution

So how would you go about doing this??

Easy, this is exactly what happened in Stagate...nuke the mothership

I jest. Ok, your standard 'prime directive' with damage control scenario.

Short answer - there is no fixing of this situation. More interference will only set us back further. So any enlightened view on it, would to simply let the affected civilization evolve far enough to be ale to directly hear the truth. 'Saving' this affected civilization by interference, direct or indirect, would not work

tonybodhran · 12-06-2012 11:36pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Nice post. Nicely worded, nicely explained, & make for nice debate. Cheers:)

Ok, to address some of it:

All true, & a belief I'd share. I don't want to offend anyone's faith here, faith is something that should be respected I think, but you'd think that given the majority of the worlds population believe in one supernatural deity or another, they'd have no problem believing in the simple notion of cultures from other planets.

They don't though, well most don't. And this is something the aliens would be aware of surely, surely they know we're a barbarous species, consumed by greed, conquest & personal gain...with a religious meets science approach to most things. We're a dangerous bunch, & any message, even a non interference type, needs to be loud & clear enough for us to hear before we're all wiped out?

I agree, that full on contact isn't considered an effective message...but neither is what Meier is saying. I'm largely sure his message goes unheard to all but the most devout of his believers? Surely, there's a better way for us to hear this message??

I hear what your saying. Given the message is about waking up spiritually, I think it'd carry much more weight if we were told by beings not of this world...rather than risk Meier being labelled as something like this

I mean, if such a message was delivered by extra terrestrials somehow, I know I'd sit up & listen! But when it's yet another man, with yet another message, aw, I dunno...I guess I just don't take any notice as he's likely a loon. Maybe that's the beauty of the message though, & I'm not ready to here it? Who knows!

Yeah, I agree this would fit the agenda of such a message. No flaws in the logic here.

Hmm, I dunno about this. If it were real, Meier was chosen to deliever the most important message mankind has ever received. He was going to have to step up on the world stage, because otherwise, the message would be lost. You can't whisper out this kind of thing.

Ok, I'll ask for your help with this one. Where should I start, without wanting to read reams & reams of material...is there any source I can examine on a point by point basis that goes through the evidence?

Easy, this is exactly what happened in Stagate...nuke the mothership

I jest. Ok, your standard 'prime directive' with damage control scenario.

Short answer - there is no fixing of this situation. More interference will only set us back further. So any enlightened view on it, would to simply let the affected civilization evolve far enough to be ale to directly hear the truth. 'Saving' this affected civilization by interference, direct or indirect, would not work

Okeydokey
1. If we think of the prime directive approach then the message can't be loud enough that it shakes the whole planet, it needs to create a stir and slowly seep through. Meier was major news in lots of countries from Europe to America to Japan in the 1980's. Then due to the way the evidence was presented and also some nasty interference from disgruntled maniacs like Kal Korff the whole thing was looked on by the public as a hoax, so the case faded into the background but not completely. Meier was able to set up a center in Switzerland and enough people stayed interested to help him do what he was supposed to do which was to write everything down as the contacts continued and help store and convert the writings into usable formats.
Meier writes in a form of German that is different from high German, the meanings of the words are from an older form of German no longer used so it takes the members of figu considerable time to decode the exact meanings of what he is saying and print it in a format readable in high German. Also there are many words in German that don't have English counterparts so translating it to English without error takes even longer. This is why only about 30% of what Meier has written has been translated into English so far. Any mis-translation would completely defeat the point of the exercise.

The only way Meier has been able to carry on writing down his contacts relatively unhindered is precisely because the heat was taken off him by interference and the way the evidence was presented in general. In the beginning Meier was inundated by people from all over the world , hundreds of people calling to his house and asking him the same questions day after day, stealing his photographs causing strife within his family etc. Meier had a nervous breakdown, his wife left him and turned on him, there were multiple assassination attempts ( Wendelle Stevens was witness to one) All this and more because of what he was telling people, it was not something he was enjoying. When the tide turned I imagine he breathed a sigh of relief and eventually got to carry on doing what he was supposed to do.

2. "I agree, that full on contact isn't considered an effective message...but neither is what Meier is saying." Do you know what he is saying? Or do you mean the way he is saying it?

3. The message is about human spirituality, if a highly advanced alien race much further up the spiritual evolutionary ladder with almost god like powers give the message personally it might not come across that way, they could be seen as angels/demons/spacedemons....satans space army..reptillians disguised as angels to trick us.. we are a really stupid race..the list is endless as to what we would make of it.
If a man writes it down, some people read it, start to lead better lives, influence people around them who influence others around them, other people catch on to the truth through other things like advances in science etc, it slowly builds over hundreds of years and eventually the world has turned a corner and the complete information is still there in it's original form for anyone to access.
And i disagree about not whispering this thing out, screaming at people is rarely useful unless there is a train coming. The analogy here because of the time scales involved is more like someone tapping you on the shoulder while you are on the train full of drunken fighting partying people and telling you that there is a quieter train at the next stop where people are talking about spiritual matters also this train will get you to your destination much faster, and you can either get off at the next stop or say **** no! I want to parrrtayyyy!!
Also Meier doesn't talk about the end of the world, just very hard time for us all for a very long time if we don't come to our senses.

4. The most convincing evidence is the Ober sadelegg and Hasenbol sequence of pictures. These photos were taken in 1976 well before the dawn of image manipulation by computers.
The Hasenbol sequence is especially good. The thing you have to remember if you are not going to read through the extensive investigation reports is that this was a sequence of 34 photographs taken in sequence, that means they appear to show an approach of an object from a great distance to then arrive at about 50 ft from the camera and hover behind a tall tree.
Wendelle Stevens examined the photo's by the tree using the most advanced technology at the time and found branches in front of the tree, this means that it is behind the tree. The tree is very large, this then means the object is large. Kal Korff in his ridiculous book on the Meier hoax claimed he found no
branches in front of the tree. What he doesn't say in his book is that he used a process not designed to analyse photographs and the photograph he used was a polaroid taken of a a print. There was no way to detect anything from that loss of resolution.
And yes Phil Langdon has recreated the effect of Meiers photographs but only the effect. He refuses to have his put to the same tests as Meiers because they are models and no where in his photo's are the objects behind trees.Langdon has also had years to work out a method of doing so and also has the luxury of trial an error which he does not show in his photographs. Meier took all his photo's (over 2000) while being constantly watched by people trying to catch him out and also with only one arm and without one setup shot or mistake ever found in his collection. Think of the logistics of this alone if he used models.

So I would start there. Forget about everything else and try and work out how you would do this set of pictures in one sitting with no set up shots and no mistakes on one roll of film. Even this proves nothing really except at the very best it proves that there is a large object in the photo but it's what started me thinking about it seriously.

Look at this (enlarge it and turn the brightness up on your screen) and tell me you if you see a branch in front of the left side of the object...
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/f/f3/F_0174_rgb.jpg

Here is one of the researchers standing underneath the tree to show scale..
http://www.tjresearch.info/Hasenbol%20tree%20in%20leaf.jpg

There is more on the series here..
http://www.tjresearch.info/hasenbol.htm

Tell me what you think?

And you are absolutely right no one is going to save us, we have to do it ourselves, the instructions are on the internet though if anyone wants to read them.

Star Lord · 13-06-2012 12:05pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

Look at this (enlarge it and turn the brightness up on your screen) and tell me you if you see a branch in front of the left side of the object...
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/f/f3/F_0174_rgb.jpg

Here is one of the researchers standing underneath the tree to show scale..
http://www.tjresearch.info/Hasenbol%20tree%20in%20leaf.jpg

My main issues here are that in the picture I do not see a branch in front of the left side of the 'object'. Also, the foreground appears to be more in focus than the tree, yet the 'object' is extremely clear. Clearer than the tree. Suggesting that it is somewhere between the tree and the camera...

You do seem to suggest that photo manipulation was not possible before it was done by computer, but there are lots of ways that photos/film could be manipulated to show things that were not otherwise possible, multiple exposures, editing the film before developing, manipulating the development process etc...

tonybodhran · 13-06-2012 1:25pm

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

My main issues here are that in the picture I do not see a branch in front of the left side of the 'object'. Also, the foreground appears to be more in focus than the tree, yet the 'object' is extremely clear. Clearer than the tree. Suggesting that it is somewhere between the tree and the camera...

You do seem to suggest that photo manipulation was not possible before it was done by computer, but there are lots of ways that photos/film could be manipulated to show things that were not otherwise possible, multiple exposures, editing the film before developing, manipulating the development process etc...

Fair enough I can see it on my screen, I'm looking at it on at 1920 x 1080 resolution, don't know why you can't. I also have the original first generation colour photo book that Stevens produced in the 1970's and it's visible there also. Note though that if you copy that picture and paste it onto your desktop the resolution goes down and it's even less visible, this is a major problem with people talking about the photographs, what they are looking at most of the time is not good enough quality to be making judegments on but that link above is one of the better ones on the internet.

How did I suggest photo manipulation was not possible? I said computer manipulation of photo's, that's exactly what I meant.
There is plenty of evidence that Meier did not manipulate anything in the processing and Stevens and his team found nothing to indicate any other type of manipulation in the photographs either. The only suggestion put forward by anyone with any merit was that he used models.

If you can't see any branches in in front of the craft in any of the links then fine don't worry about it.

Star Lord · 13-06-2012 10:48pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

...Note though that if you copy that picture and paste it onto your desktop the resolution goes down and it's even less visible, this is a major problem with people talking about the photographs, what they are looking at most of the time is not good enough quality to be making judegments on but that link above is one of the better ones on the internet.

This is nonsense to be honest. It depends on what you do with the picture, where you 'paste' it. I saved the full resolution pic, it doesn't lose resolution then.
First pic, I've cropped the pic to show the 'beam ship' and the tree, and enlarged it by 300%.
No other modifications have been made to the image.

Second pic, same as above, but I've put red circles around where the tree branches should overlap the 'beam ship', and it's quite clear that they go behind it.

tonybodhran · 14-06-2012 12:07am

I don't know why I was losing resolution when I did it but I was, so in the circle on the farthest to the left you can't see the smaller branch to the right of the main one breaking the line of the ship?

Can you see it in these enhanced photographs of other shots at the same location?

dyer · 14-06-2012 4:57am

hi tonybodhran.. i applaud your passion for this case and i am sincerely sorry if i offended you before.

you have presented counter evidence in the way of 'contact notes' etc but im sorry, they still don't make sense to me, it just seems like someone running circles around the truth the whole time, perhaps much like a compulsive liar might do (not you btw, i do mean meier). i presented some pretty hard evidence, especially in terms of his predictions, so i don't know exactly what i have ignored? it's not that i ignored it.. i read it.. and deemed it too absurd to even bother investigating (to which i also hope you don't take offense.. that's just me and where i'm coming from:) whenever i read through these notes there are discrepancies at every corner that i simply can't ignore. you have to admit there are some big holes in this story.. and for most of us, that's when the alarm bells start ringing. if billy meier was telling the truth, why would ANY of these anomalies exist at all?

ps. in the photo's you presented above.. the first is in black and white.. the second is embossed.. the ones damoeldiablo posted before that are the originals in colour and you can clearly see in those that the 'ufo' is in front of the tree.. the quality is too bad in the pictures you presented to come to that conclusion.. unless it was the one you wanted to allude to.

i just gleamed a few things from the posts i read through tonight.. i copied and pasted them into notepad as i went along, i won't say who said what without having to go back right now and find those entries but please bare with me

Billy also went all the way to the universe barrier, to the edge of our Universe

you can't reach the edge of the universe (at least in theory) it's not like a brick wall that ends somewhere or defines the end of space, the universe is expanding and no matter how hard you tried.. you'd end up following the curvature of space even if you drove towards it at the speed of light, and if you kept that up.. you'd probably end up in the same place again if it wasn't for the fact the universe was expanding.

Would there be a particular occasion when they would need to carry other devises than those around the belt?. Yes, I think so. And that device would a microphone. The type pilots and astronauts use. And I think an occasion when carrying a microphone would be of great benefit would be when piloting a mother ship. This would be a job which would include a lot of coordination, where voice communication would be needed.

i'd have to question this.. so these highly intelligent beings are still using microphones (to pilot a mothership) and devices around their belts? from most of what i've read on ufo cases and abductions they tend to communicate telepathically, and their technology isn't the same as ours in any sense of the word, it can be completely organically based and most observers tend to agree that they have managed to manipulate gravity and time in ways we can't fathom.

Have any of you even read anything about the spiritual parts of Meiers material? The changing of a planetary mindset from one of barbarous religious idiocy to one of a more peaceful spiritual nature does not happen over night.

how is this any different to what jesus might have said.. or say buddha (who never wanted his teachings to be a doctrine) and in fact, he refused to answer any existential questions that were asked of him except those of how to end suffering, because he believed or perhaps knew, that we couldn't understand much more unless we'd done that first. we all know the world needs to change, but i really do believe that change is starting to happen right now.. but it's not because of billy meier or his messages, it's because technology and education has brought us all so much closer together that we're starting to realise things need to change (at least in my opinion).

For me it seems to have been done in a very deliberate way and this in itself shows great intelligence in the planning.

For me it seems it was done in a very deliberate way as well, and this in itself shows great intelligence in how he has manipulated all of the information.. intelligently.

The message is about human spirituality, if a highly advanced alien race much further up the spiritual evolutionary ladder with almost god like powers give the message personally it might not come across that way, they could be seen as angels/demons/spacedemons....satans space army..reptillians disguised as angels to trick us.. we are a really stupid race..the list is endless as to what we would make of it.

"they could be seen as angels/demons/spacedemons....satans space army..reptillians disguised as angels to trick us" there are people out there who believe that anyway (mostly christian too)

not all people on earth are stupid, why didn't they pick einstein to share these messages with us.. or someone we might actually listen to?

Forget about everything else and try and work out how you would do this set of pictures in one sitting with no set up shots and no mistakes on one roll of film

just a thought, but could he not have just taken 50 polaroids until he had the shot he wanted, dated them however he wanted and thrown away the rest?

i really do believe in ufo's but i don't believe in any of this. i've had some extraordinary experiences with ufo's. i've tried my very best to investigate all the evidence that i could find because of that and i wouldn't believe it unless i'd seen it myself otherwise.. from leaked military documents, interviews with those involved with sightings (at least those which i found the most credible) i've followed all the biggest cases and the evidence behind them. i've tried to build up a picture of the american military programs from the ground up after the war.. the scientists they 'borrowed', what they were researching at the time etc. i've researched antigravitics all the way from tesla through the biefeld–brown effect to the quacks to earnshaws theory that proves (no static arrangement of classical electrostatic fields can be used to stably levitate an object) to heims theory which is so complicated nobody seems to be able to really understand it (but who knows). there certainly are some applicable technologies out there.. like magnetoplasmadynamic thrusters (theoretical speeds of 22,000mph..but try putting a human being into one of those performing the maneuvers ive seen ufo's doing (not to mention the size of some of the craft that have been witnessed) and that's one of the main reasons i don't believe any what i or what others have seen are due to experimental military endevours) funding for the mpd project was cut before they ever started.. perhaps they went underground, who knows? funnily enough, nasa's last project in that respect was actually called prometheus

as i said, i do believe in ufo's.. and at this stage after all my research, i tend to believe that they are extraterrestrial in origin.. just as the french cometa report acknowledged that might be the best hypothesis we have right now. i agree this is something you can't talk to very many people about, some can entertain the idea because they are open minded, some will probably think you're bat **** crazy for even thinking about it, but then there are those who have their own stories to share with you.. and i guess in the end, the rest you just have to leave behind. i will always err on the side of science, but i know science is slow to catch on to what is happening here (which is indeed psychological and just part of the human condition).. they'd rather ignore it all but will still spend their time in labs trying to create metamaterials, nanomaterials, invisible materials, quantum computers, anti gravity propulsion, cells that interact with electronic components and all manner of things.. long before they would ever entertain crazy notions that perhaps we were beaten to it already, and especially, that those beings might already be here.

i believe in some bizarre and remarkable things.. but billy meier.. i certainly don't. it doesn't matter if i read it left, right, up, down or sideways.. i just don't believe in it.. i actually think this mess causes so much damage to what should be a serious study into this phenomenon and some people well, just get lost in semantics and are happy to stay there, unfortunately! you seem like quite an intelligent guy tonibodhran.. i wont preach, but you can shout blue in the face and i still won't believe this story, i just hope for your sake you take a step back from it all and see where the rest of us are coming from.

tonybodhran · 14-06-2012 7:06am

dyer wrote: »

hi tonybodhran.. i applaud your passion for this case and i am sincerely sorry if i offended you before.

Thanks, no problem this is just an incredibly difficult case to discuss due to the sheer amount of things that can be argued over and most of the time what I want to discuss isn't even listened to.

dyer wrote: »

if billy meier was telling the truth, why would ANY of these anomalies exist at all?

I think I explained that in an earlier post that the purpose of the whole thing was to provoke a lasting controversy and still give Billy time to write everything he has written down which is an enormous amount of material. One picture of him actually firing a lazer gun and it would have been good bye Billy off to the military base with you. But I understand the difficulty in accepting that.

dyer wrote: »

ps. in the photo's you presented above.. the first is in black and white.. the second is embossed.. the ones damoeldiablo posted before that are the originals in colour and you can clearly see in those that the 'ufo' is in front of the tree.. the quality is too bad in the pictures you presented to come to that conclusion.. unless it was the one you wanted to allude to.

The photo is in black and white because the entire investigation report was mostly in black and white due to the cost. Stevens and his team spent upwards of $100,000 of their own money during the investigation, there were many more things they could have done but they ran out of money.
The other photo is bump-mapped but it does appear to show branches crossing the ship.

dyer wrote: »

you can't reach the edge of the universe (at least in theory) it's not like a brick wall that ends somewhere or defines the end of space, the universe is expanding and no matter how hard you tried.. you'd end up following the curvature of space even if you drove towards it at the speed of light, and if you kept that up.. you'd probably end up in the same place again if it wasn't for the fact the universe was expanding.

There are theories about multiple universes, surely if this is possible there is some sort of barrier separating them. In Meiers explanations this universe exists within a belt called the material belt it is surrounded by other belts. I don't know if that's true, maybe it is maybe it isn't but we really know next to nothing about the true nature of the universe. We can't get past our moon, what the hell do we know.

dyer wrote: »

i'd have to question this.. so these highly intelligent beings are still using microphones (to pilot a mothership) and devices around their belts? from most of what i've read on ufo cases and abductions they tend to communicate telepathically, and their technology isn't the same as ours in any sense of the word, it can be completely organically based and most observers tend to agree that they have managed to manipulate gravity and time in ways we can't fathom.

If you are talking about the ding a lings, I agree it's the most damaging photo in the case, even I find the story behind it unbelievable but I can;t discount the other things I've found out by investigating it myself for the last number of years by going there myself and talking to people involved and also seeing photographs that were never released to the public (why you ask..refer to my second paragraph)

dyer wrote: »

how is this any different to what jesus might have said.. or say buddha (who never wanted his teachings to be a doctrine) and in fact, he refused to answer any existential questions that were asked of him except those of how to end suffering, because he believed or perhaps knew, that we couldn't understand much more unless we'd done that first. we all know the world needs to change, but i really do believe that change is starting to happen right now.. but it's not because of billy meier or his messages, it's because technology and education has brought us all so much closer together that we're starting to realise things need to change (at least in my opinion).

It might not be much different but we will never know exactly what Jesus or Budda actually said at the time because most of what is recorded about them is from hearsay from 30-100 years after their deaths.

dyer wrote: »

For me it seems it was done in a very deliberate way as well, and this in itself shows great intelligence in how he has manipulated all of the information.. intelligently.

Could be either one.

dyer wrote: »

not all people on earth are stupid, why didn't they pick einstein to share these messages with us.. or someone we might actually listen to?

Give me an example of who they should have given the message to stating that everything they believe is false and the entire world must abandon all religions...who would have brought this message in it's entirety to the public without diluting it or changing it to suit their own purposes? Who could have written down the vast amount of data he has been given if he had been hounded by everyone on earth looking for aliens, how would he/she have gotten past this particular problem?

dyer wrote: »

just a thought, but could he not have just taken 50 polaroids until he had the shot he wanted, dated them however he wanted and thrown away the rest?

Except he didn't he took them all on an Olympus 35 ECR still camera and most the pictures were taken in sequence on one roll of film per session with no set up shots.

look I really do understand where people are coming from but there is a difference between looking at a couple of websites which themselves are full of deliberate mistakes and sometimes just lazyness and spending years of research on everything available to try and put an entire picture together of what is going on. I'm working on debunking a famous debunked picture of Meiers. I'll be back with that when I can and tell me what you think.

Thanks for actually discussing this with me anyway. I need to step away from the internet now for a while, using the laptop has done my bloody back in! Take care

Mahigitam · 14-06-2012 8:20am

dyer wrote: »

you can't reach the edge of the universe (at least in theory) it's not like a brick wall that ends somewhere or defines the end of space, the universe is expanding and no matter how hard you tried.. you'd end up following the curvature of space even if you drove towards it at the speed of light, and if you kept that up.. you'd probably end up in the same place again if it wasn't for the fact the universe was expanding.

CR 30, July 15, 1975(Wendelle Stevens, Message from Pleiades, Vol 1)

Meier: Dear me, then this will become just a short trip to the end of universe, a travel into eternity, so to speak?
Semjase: YOur thoughts are wrong, for we dont reach an end of the Universe, for such an end does not exist. We only move to a barrier of this Universe.

dyer wrote: »

i'd have to question this.. so these highly intelligent beings are still using microphones (to pilot a mothership) and devices around their belts? from most of what i've read on ufo cases and abductions they tend to communicate telepathically, and their technology isn't the same as ours in any sense of the word, it can be completely organically based and most observers tend to agree that they have managed to manipulate gravity and time in ways we can't fathom.

Bergheim, aren't those the long ear-lobes of Asket(distinct feature) instead of microphones which Meier indeed mentioned in the contact notes.

dyer wrote: »

how is this any different to what jesus might have said.. or say buddha (who never wanted his teachings to be a doctrine) and in fact, he refused to answer any existential questions that were asked of him except those of how to end suffering, because he believed or perhaps knew, that we couldn't understand much more unless we'd done that first. we all know the world needs to change, but i really do believe that change is starting to happen right now.. but it's not because of billy meier or his messages, it's because technology and education has brought us all so much closer together that we're starting to realise things need to change (at least in my opinion).

It was said that Billy's teachings would only be heard or paid attention on a mass scale for a very long time to come(~800 years atleast). It is alleged that these Plejaren have been aiding humanity through teachings(since several thousand years in the past) & technology(last 200 years).

dyer wrote: »

"they could be seen as angels/demons/spacedemons....satans space army..reptillians disguised as angels to trick us" there are people out there who believe that anyway (mostly christian too)

not all people on earth are stupid, why didn't they pick einstein to share these messages with us.. or someone we might actually listen to?

Such type of questions - Why didn't ETs contact (X or Y or Z or...) or (X & Y & Z &.....) - can be speculated or answered adequately only if one is familiar with the goal & directives of this mission carried out by ETs. There are goals in this mission that are to be accomplished in this time period(late 20th & beginning of 21st century) and there are goals that would only be accomplished for a long time to come(centuries,..). If one goes through all these short-time & long-time goals, it would be clear that any other choice is futile to the success of the mission.

dyer wrote: »

just a thought, but could he not have just taken 50 polaroids until he had the shot he wanted, dated them however he wanted and thrown away the rest?

If he had used the trail & error method in photographing the beamships(ex: hasenbol,..), then many things would be revealed in the investigation that would help us in drawing conclusions, like:

1 - Anamolies in photographs(change of elements in the photograph with respect to time & place - clouds, brightness, exposure,.. )
2 - More probability of being caught by the investigators & the local people(since this method of trail & error would take somuch time for the setup)
3 - Evidence of UFO Models(except those being made by the MGM & other studios)
4 - Anamolies in the photographic film due to the splicing and stitching
5 - Secret 'Dark room', where Meier could have performed all the professional techniques(assuming he is a genius in photo-developing too)
6 - Duration of photographing event obtained from the Witnesses & Investigator's Reports
7 - Evidence(Camera equipment & Photo logs) & Testimony from the Photo Labs that processed each & every film/slides of Meier
8 - Scientific reports from the State-of-the-Art labs at that time(NASA, JPL, ASU,..)

The results of all the above questions have been presented in the Wendelle's & Gary Kinder's books and have been available for interested parties since 1979.
And the results to the above questions have significantly supported Meier's claims rather than others.

tonybodhran · 14-06-2012 9:19am

Mahigitam wrote: »

dyer wrote: »

you can't reach the edge of the universe (at least in theory) it's not like a brick wall that ends somewhere or defines the end of space, the universe is expanding and no matter how hard you tried.. you'd end up following the curvature of space even if you drove towards it at the speed of light, and if you kept that up.. you'd probably end up in the same place again if it wasn't for the fact the universe was expanding.

CR 30, July 15, 1975(Wendelle Stevens, Message from Pleiades, Vol 1)

Meier: Dear me, then this will become just a short trip to the end of universe, a travel into eternity, so to speak?
Semjase: YOur thoughts are wrong, for we dont reach an end of the Universe, for such an end does not exist. We only move to a barrier of this Universe.

dyer wrote: »

i'd have to question this.. so these highly intelligent beings are still using microphones (to pilot a mothership) and devices around their belts? from most of what i've read on ufo cases and abductions they tend to communicate telepathically, and their technology isn't the same as ours in any sense of the word, it can be completely organically based and most observers tend to agree that they have managed to manipulate gravity and time in ways we can't fathom.

Bergheim, aren't those the long ear-lobes of Asket(distinct feature) instead of microphones which Meier indeed mentioned in the contact notes.

dyer wrote: »

how is this any different to what jesus might have said.. or say buddha (who never wanted his teachings to be a doctrine) and in fact, he refused to answer any existential questions that were asked of him except those of how to end suffering, because he believed or perhaps knew, that we couldn't understand much more unless we'd done that first. we all know the world needs to change, but i really do believe that change is starting to happen right now.. but it's not because of billy meier or his messages, it's because technology and education has brought us all so much closer together that we're starting to realise things need to change (at least in my opinion).

It was said that Billy's teachings would only be heard or paid attention on a mass scale for a very long time to come(~800 years atleast). It is alleged that these Plejaren have been aiding humanity through teachings(since several thousand years in the past) & technology(last 200 years).

dyer wrote: »

"they could be seen as angels/demons/spacedemons....satans space army..reptillians disguised as angels to trick us" there are people out there who believe that anyway (mostly christian too)

not all people on earth are stupid, why didn't they pick einstein to share these messages with us.. or someone we might actually listen to?

Such type of questions - Why didn't ETs contact (X or Y or Z or...) or (X & Y & Z &.....) - can be speculated or answered adequately only if one is familiar with the goal & directives of this mission carried out by ETs. There are goals in this mission that are to be accomplished in this time period(late 20th & beginning of 21st century) and there are goals that would only be accomplished for a long time to come(centuries,..). If one goes through all these short-time & long-time goals, it would be clear that any other choice is futile to the success of the mission.

dyer wrote: »

just a thought, but could he not have just taken 50 polaroids until he had the shot he wanted, dated them however he wanted and thrown away the rest?

If he had used the trail & error method in photographing the beamships(ex: hasenbol,..), then many things would be revealed in the investigation that would help us in drawing conclusions, like:

1 - Anamolies in photographs(change of elements in the photograph with respect to time & place - clouds, brightness, exposure,.. )
2 - More probability of being caught by the investigators & the local people(since this method of trail & error would take somuch time for the setup)
3 - Evidence of UFO Models(except those being made by the MGM & other studios)
4 - Anamolies in the photographic film due to the splicing and stitching
5 - Secret 'Dark room', where Meier could have performed all the professional techniques(assuming he is a genius in photo-developing too)
6 - Duration of photographing event obtained from the Witnesses & Investigator's Reports
7 - Evidence(Camera equipment & Photo logs) & Testimony from the Photo Labs that processed each & every film/slides of Meier
8 - Scientific reports from the State-of-the-Art labs at that time(NASA, JPL, ASU,..)

The results of all the above questions have been presented in the Wendelle's & Gary Kinder's books and have been available for interested parties since 1979.
And the results to the above questions have significantly supported Meier's claims rather than others.

Hey Mahesh, thanks for helping me out!
I promised myself I wouldn't get into another discussion on the case but couldn't help but get involved on a thread on my own home turf, at least people are asking questions here which is a nice change. I'm working on debunking the wedding cake/car/model theory. Ill let you know how i get on.I'm going to have to leave this discussion as my back is fooked and im not supposed to be doing any laptop stuff for a while, but you know what its like when you get going! Take care.

squonk · 14-06-2012 1:31pm

Again looking at this simply, it was mentioned that a deliberate controversy was created and that Meier was quite happy when things died down because he could get back to doing what he was supposed to be doing, i.e. writing down the meeting notes and the alien's message.

What doesn't make sense to me is why Billy needs to write this stuff down. Surely if the message was that important, the aliens could have transcribed it themselves intoa book or a large set of briefing notes and presented that to Billy. It'd have allowed him to review the stuff and, instead of his having to meticulously write down every possible thing, they could have spent their time going through the notes paragraph by paragraph clarifying things and making sure he wasn't misinterpreting anything.

Regarding the contact notes, why have Billy write these either? He could make notes for himself of course but even now we ourselves are just on the cusp of having widespread useable speech recognition technology. Anyone with an iPhone or Android device can dictate memos and notes to text. Why not just let Billy focus entirely on the contact and at the end, present him with a sheaf of notes based on speech to text for everyone involved in the contact, much like a stenographer does in court?

A lot of time would be saved and if they have ships that defy gravity and the ability to traverse the universe and enter adjoining universes, I'd have to conclude that speech recognition was a technology that they took for granted. On the other hand, back in the 70's the personal computer was a coming concept and speech recognition such as we have now was an extremely far flung concept from TV shows and, even then, was barely imagined.

tonybodhran · 14-06-2012 4:27pm

squonk wrote: »

Again looking at this simply, it was mentioned that a deliberate controversy was created and that Meier was quite happy when things died down because he could get back to doing what he was supposed to be doing, i.e. writing down the meeting notes and the alien's message.

What doesn't make sense to me is why Billy needs to write this stuff down. Surely if the message was that important, the aliens could have transcribed it themselves intoa book or a large set of briefing notes and presented that to Billy. It'd have allowed him to review the stuff and, instead of his having to meticulously write down every possible thing, they could have spent their time going through the notes paragraph by paragraph clarifying things and making sure he wasn't misinterpreting anything.

Regarding the contact notes, why have Billy write these either? He could make notes for himself of course but even now we ourselves are just on the cusp of having widespread useable speech recognition technology. Anyone with an iPhone or Android device can dictate memos and notes to text. Why not just let Billy focus entirely on the contact and at the end, present him with a sheaf of notes based on speech to text for everyone involved in the contact, much like a stenographer does in court?

A lot of time would be saved and if they have ships that defy gravity and the ability to traverse the universe and enter adjoining universes, I'd have to conclude that speech recognition was a technology that they took for granted. On the other hand, back in the 70's the personal computer was a coming concept and speech recognition such as we have now was an extremely far flung concept from TV shows and, even then, was barely imagined.

Maghitam actually knows far more about the case than I do and could probably explain this better but it goes back to what he said about the "goal & directives of this mission carried out by ETs"
Their mission is to help us evolve spiritually, not do it for us, they are not going to do anything for us and that includes the hard work of taking down 40 years worth of contact notes which enabled Meier himself to evolve throughout the process and ultimately be able to write what he is still writing now which is incredibly insightful books written by himself without help from the Plejaran contactees. This is not a set of tonka toy instructions you just hand over to someone and say off you go. Meier himself had to go through the trials and tribulations of over 40 years of contacts (still ongoing) for the purposes of the mission he was given.
Also he wasn't writing as he was talking to them, he would go off for a few hours , have a chat then come back home and the entire conversation was telepathically transmitted to him while he typed it out in one go, this is how it always happened, which also lends credence to the fact that this was actually happening unless he wrote the entire 40 years of contact notes on the fly as he was typing( there are over twenty thousand pages of information) , there were never any edits of anything he wrote, only spelling mistakes checked, and he also typed this all out with one hand at around 60 words per minute.
This to me is far more impressive than simply being handed a book and saying there you go...

It's difficult to understand I accept that, you only really get the big picture and understand the reasons when you know all the information. It's far too much to go into properly on a format like this. I would recommend reading Gary Kinders Light Years to get some grasp of the scale and scope of the case, it's a really good objective investigation and covers a good deal of the Stevens investigation and discussions with Meier. I guarantee that it will make you question your views on the case.

There is a torrent on isohunt with everything ever printed and broadcast about Billy meier , it's about 20gb of data but you can select whatever you want from it, you can get the pdf Light years from that if you are interested. Just search for Billy Meier on isohunt, it's the biggest file there.

squonk · 14-06-2012 5:19pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

....snip...
Their mission is to help us evolve spiritually, not do it for us, they are not going to do anything for us and that includes the hard work of taking down 40 years worth of contact notes which enabled Meier himself to evolve throughout the process and ultimately be able to write what he is still writing now which is incredibly insightful books written by himself without help from the Plejaran contactees. This is not a set of tonka toy instructions you just hand over to someone and say off you go. Meier himself had to go through the trials and tribulations of over 40 years of contacts (still ongoing) for the purposes of the mission he was given.
Also he wasn't writing as he was talking to them, he would go off for a few hours , have a chat then come back home and the entire conversation was telepathically transmitted to him while he typed it out in one go, this is how it always happened, which also lends credence to the fact that this was actually happening unless he wrote the entire 40 years of contact notes on the fly as he was typing( there are over twenty thousand pages of information) , there were never any edits of anything he wrote, only spelling mistakes checked, and he also typed this all out with one hand at around 60 words per minute.

Aplogies for a snip of your post. I wanted to concentrate on the more important points as I saw them. I appreciate that you are not as au fait with this aspect of the case Tony as perhaps you'd like but some pieces of your explanation do not sit right with me.

I'll begin by fully accepting that just because we now have speech dictation that itself is not the be all and end all of technological progression. Indeed, I could well consider that were telepathy to develop within our race in milenia to come, we could well employ a similar method to the plejorans. I recognise also that the mesages are not a set of points that can just be handed over but my problem is this; why not just hand over the points bit by bit? Yes I was wrong perhaps suggesting that they give Meier 100% of the notes in one go. Why not give him a small segment at each meeting, let him digest that and move on. This was to be a long term process after all. Another point that irks me is that my humanity will not allow me to have a one-armed man type out pages after a meeting. It's unfair on the individual. It's well and good if the individual has their own message to write and it's part of their daily work or something like that, but deliberately making somebody transcribe all that material sounds cruel, even if it only takes an hour at a time, it's still unfair.

You also mention that Billy was contacted telepathically and given the information afterwards to transcribe as he got it. The plejorans used him in the way that I, for instance, would use Siri to dictate some notes for a meeting. He was purely a conduit and I think he would still have to stop at the end and revise the notes himself.

Given all of this, I find it hard to comprehend that an enlightened, highly technologically advanced race would put the task upon a disabled man to write on paper all that they were telling him to write. Even being a 21st century human, my compassion would have me tell Billy that he should only concern himself with the meetings and to contemplate those once he reached home. I'd tell him that I would provide the transcripts and other notes slightly later and that I'd like him to review those and come back to me with questions. It would offend my sense of decency to know that somebody needed to painstakingly transcribe my words and concepts afterwards via a medium that was not efficient for them. Personally speaking I would not allow an animal I owned a burden like that and I would be even more accomodating were it a fellow human.

Really, it comes down to the fact that if being highly developed makes you an ass like that, I'm quite happy to carry on being a plain old human being.

tonybodhran · 14-06-2012 6:21pm

squonk wrote: »

Aplogies for a snip of your post. I wanted to concentrate on the more important points as I saw them. I appreciate that you are not as au fait with this aspect of the case Tony as perhaps you'd like but some pieces of your explanation do not sit right with me.

I'll begin by fully accepting that just because we now have speech dictation that itself is not the be all and end all of technological progression. Indeed, I could well consider that were telepathy to develop within our race in milenia to come, we could well employ a similar method to the plejorans. I recognise also that the mesages are not a set of points that can just be handed over but my problem is this; why not just hand over the points bit by bit? Yes I was wrong perhaps suggesting that they give Meier 100% of the notes in one go. Why not give him a small segment at each meeting, let him digest that and move on.This was to be a long term process after all.

That's exactly what happened..they discussed things so he could understand and ask questions and he wrote them down over the course of over 40 years.

squonk wrote: »

Another point that irks me is that my humanity will not allow me to have a one-armed man type out pages after a meeting. It's unfair on the individual. It's well and good if the individual has their own message to write and it's part of their daily work or something like that, but deliberately making somebody transcribe all that material sounds cruel, even if it only takes an hour at a time, it's still unfair.

It was the only way to ensure that everything would be written down word for word, and Billy didn't seem to mind, he did everything else with one hand
.

squonk wrote: »

You also mention that Billy was contacted telepathically and given the information afterwards to transcribe as he got it. The plejorans used him in the way that I, for instance, would use Siri to dictate some notes for a meeting. He was purely a conduit and I think he would still have to stop at the end and revise the notes himself.

He did not revise anything, he types them up and people help him check it for spelling errors, that was it. It's still the way he does it today.

squonk wrote: »

Given all of this, I find it hard to comprehend that an enlightened, highly technologically advanced race would put the task upon a disabled man to write on paper all that they were telling him to write. Even being a 21st century human, my compassion would have me tell Billy that he should only concern himself with the meetings and to contemplate those once he reached home. I'd tell him that I would provide the transcripts and other notes slightly later and that I'd like him to review those and come back to me with questions. It would offend my sense of decency to know that somebody needed to painstakingly transcribe my words and concepts afterwards via a medium that was not efficient for them. Personally speaking I would not allow an animal I owned a burden like that and I would be even more accomodating were it a fellow human.

This is because you have absolutely no idea why Meier was chosen to do this and why he accepted to do it. There is little point in me trying to explain it because no one believes there is any merit even in the physical evidence never mind the things that can not be proven.

I strongly recommend reading Gary Kinders Light Years (1987) , you can actually read the book in it's entirety online as the author gave permission for it to be used on a website dedicated to translations of Meiers german material. It can also be found in a torrent online in a pdf form or you can get it from amazon second hand for literally just the price of postage now . It's a great introduction into the case proper and even if you don't think any of it is true it is a great example of how an investigation into something like this should be handled for anyone interested in the UFO field.
Here is the link to the book online, it's not huge and is a great read.

http://www.billymeiertranslations.com/#contactotherbooks

squonk · 15-06-2012 11:29am

tonybodhran wrote: »

This is because you have absolutely no idea why Meier was chosen to do this and why he accepted to do it. There is little point in me trying to explain it because no one believes there is any merit even in the physical evidence never mind the things that can not be proven.

Well have you got a paragraph on why he was chosen? I'm willing to engage with you on this but pointing out some fundamental points relating to decency and fair treatment of a disabled person results in, to paraphrase 'Oh but you don't know why he was chosen. I'm not going to tell you, nobody ever believes. go read this book'. TBH I'm not going to read the book right now. I'm still not convinced and I still conclude that it's like me showing up in the 17th. century and having a crippled clerk write out everything I tell them by hand when I could just as easilly use my own technology to give them a helping hand.

This is still not adding up for me. I can't get answers to basic fundamental questions and when that is the case, there's usually more to things I find.

I've an open mind so please try and convince me but I've also got a full life so books and other activities have to be really worthwhile for me before I engage.

tonybodhran · 16-06-2012 12:29pm

squonk wrote: »

tonybodhran wrote: »

This is because you have absolutely no idea why Meier was chosen to do this and why he accepted to do it. There is little point in me trying to explain it because no one believes there is any merit even in the physical evidence never mind the things that can not be proven.

Well have you got a paragraph on why he was chosen? I'm willing to engage with you on this but pointing out some fundamental points relating to decency and fair treatment of a disabled person results in, to paraphrase 'Oh but you don't know why he was chosen. I'm not going to tell you, nobody ever believes. go read this book'. TBH I'm not going to read the book right now. I'm still not convinced and I still conclude that it's like me showing up in the 17th. century and having a crippled clerk write out everything I tell them by hand when I could just as easilly use my own technology to give them a helping hand.

This is still not adding up for me. I can't get answers to basic fundamental questions and when that is the case, there's usually more to things I find.

I've an open mind so please try and convince me but I've also got a full life so books and other activities have to be really worthwhile for me before I engage.

What I actually said was that there is no point in trying to convince you with things that can't be proven if you don't want to look at the things that can.
Sorry man I can't figure it out for you, this is exactly what the case is all about, either you are interested in the concepts and do some research and think it through or it means nothing to you and you move along. If your life is too full to spend two hours reading a book then I wouldn't worry about it. I've spent much more than that just posting up here and I have other things to do also. Good luck. Peace.

tonybodhran · 16-06-2012 6:25pm

That's weird..someone took down the site with the book on it today. As it has been offered up free of charge by the author to the public anyone who wants it can pm me and I'll mail them the PDF.

bergheim · 17-06-2012 3:39am

The microphone issue

A pilot (coordinator) of a mother ship would need full spectrum communication.
Telepathy would only cover a certain spectrum, not the full.

Like open up communication with external space ships. That would be a task which would require a microphone.

During Billy Meier’s great space trip (contact 31), one of the destinations they travelled to was a sun system in a Galaxy 15 000 million light years from Earth. They reached this destination through hyper space jumps.

When in location, Billy boarded Semjase’s beam ship and they exited the mother ship for a survey of a volcanic planet in that system. During this flight in the beam ship they spotted a foreign craft. A UFO in space. Billy describes how Semjase then occupied herself with various apparatuses. And she spoke into a gadget using a completely unknown melodic language. This was done in an attempt to establish contact with the unidentified flight object. Billy did not describe the shape of the gadget she spoke into, whether it was shaped as a microphone or not. But the point here is; she used voice, not telepathy. The communication effort yielded no result. She afterwards told Billy she was using a speakable sign language. Billy took two photos the UFO (printed in block 1 p.415).

murrayp4 · 17-06-2012 3:06pm

bergheim wrote: »

The microphone issue

A pilot (coordinator) of a mother ship would need full spectrum communication.
Telepathy would only cover a certain spectrum, not the full.

Like open up communication with external space ships. That would be a task which would require a microphone.

...sorry, but I had to laugh. Comforting to know that we have someone who knows at least something abut motherships.

bergheim · 18-06-2012 4:43am

murrayp4 wrote: »

...sorry, but I had to laugh. Comforting to know that we have someone who knows at least something abut motherships.

Murrayp4,

It should be quite obvious that the information is from the Billy Meier contact notes. And all I am doing is to apply logic to, and expand on, the information already provided in the notes.

Mahigitam · 18-06-2012 11:10am

squonk wrote: »

Well have you got a paragraph on why he was chosen? I'm willing to engage with you on this but pointing out some fundamental points relating to decency and fair treatment of a disabled person results in, to paraphrase 'Oh but you don't know why he was chosen. I'm not going to tell you, nobody ever believes. go read this book'. TBH I'm not going to read the book right now. I'm still not convinced and I still conclude that it's like me showing up in the 17th. century and having a crippled clerk write out everything I tell them by hand when I could just as easilly use my own technology to give them a helping hand.

This is still not adding up for me. I can't get answers to basic fundamental questions and when that is the case, there's usually more to things I find.

I've an open mind so please try and convince me but I've also got a full life so books and other activities have to be really worthwhile for me before I engage.

Why do the Plejaren/Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?
http://www.steelmarkonline.com/why_billy.htm

Contact 24 - Saturday, June 7, 1975
A talk between Billy and Semjase during the 24th contact.

Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:

1. We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades.

2. We can contact individuals from Earth only if the necessary spiritual prerequisites are present.

3. We can get in contact with an individual from Earth only if that person has progressed so far in his development that he is able to work out and recognize the basic truth in the truth without assistance, and without considering any statements by other people or any writings.

4. If we get in contact with an individual from Earth, and if those prerequisites are not fulfilled, such a contact is only a preliminary undertaking for a special purpose. After the achievement of the objective, the person's memory of us etc., is eliminated, as e.g. happened with the person whom we let find the Talmud [Jmmanuel]. Any duties that require that the individual goes public may not be imposed on such persons, since the memory within them is constantly eliminated; they are neither cognizant of the connections nor the actual facts. However, such persons must be highly developed in certain fields of knowledge, as e.g. was the case with the finder of the Talmud who was an expert in languages, but whom we burdened too much, unfortunately.

5. If we get in contact with individuals from Earth we do this according to certain higher orders and according to the exact number of determined persons.One of the reasons for this lies in the fact that too many people standing in the first position would upset everything. I remember a saying that you use very frequently and that is very adequate in this respect: "Too many cooks spoil the stew." This is a fact that is also true within the laws and directives of Creation. Creation alone is the determining factor.

6. We are not allowed to make ourselves visible to more individuals from Earth than lies within our responsibility. This precaution responds special concerns of private, military and governmental desires aimed at taking possession of our ships and all the other things. To be in contact with several persons would be dangerous for ourselves. That's why we can only cultivate contacts with Earth humans who are known to us as absolutely trustworthy and reliable in every respect. This is of far-reaching importance for our special mission with you and your group. We must be certain in every respect that - if the need arises - the contact person prevents bad consequences with all conceivable means.

7. To show ourselves to certain picked earth humans only and taking up communication with them, secretly and at remote locations, has yet another reason: Countless people are craving for sensations and selfishness only. That's the reason why they want to get in contact with us. In addition there are those countless ones who - upon seeing us - would panic; something that could produce very dangerous effects.

These are but seven reasons why we cannot agree to the desire of H.J. Many more reasons could be presented, but the ones given should be enough. ..."

A list with other reasons, like e.g. the different vibrations between Pleiadians/Plejarens and Earth humans, among other things, can be read in Guido Moosbruggers book, And Still They Fly. One of the major reasons also given is that the Meier's spirit was very old, wise & have been involved in such kinds of missions on several planets for a long time.

I differ with your use of the word "fundamental question" to the question - 'why did Plejaren allow Meier to type down the thousands of pages of contact notes instead of doing it themselves & later handing over them to Meier for distribution'. Fundamental questions pertaining to this case would be those questions that asks for the motivations, goals, strategies & the evidence in the case. The answers to these questions helps us create a working hypothesis, standards of evidence, methodology of testing the evidence & the fair conclusions that can be drawn. The "fundamental" question you asked doesn't seem to help us the way the true fundamental questions would be helping.
The right answer to your question can only be given by the meier & FIGU. From reading the contact notes, what i understood is that as Tony Bodhran said ETs have a directive that doesn't make them interfere(exceptions included) with our earth civilization or even with Meier/FIGU. Their interactions would only be limited, depending on the situation & its consequences. Another reason given in the contact notes is also that the ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group. And Meier is not any exception as he was too given several challenges & choices on whether to continue or abandon the mission anytime he wants. So by strictly following the framework setup by ETs, they ensured that the mission would be a success. And this 'Meier typing the contact notes' might also a part of the above said framework.
Besides, Billy does most of the hard work at his home/center with his one hand. And it has been told that he can do more work easily with one hand than a person can do with 2 hands. There are several documented instances of Meier's extraordinary physical & spiritual abilities in the contact notes & testimonials given by the witnesses & investigators. I think that this sufficiently answered your fundamental question & hope we would move onto more intricate, fundamental questions.

dyer · 19-06-2012 2:29am

Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:

I'd like to understand, how this stands up to all the other people who claim to have been abducted.. why don't they remember anything apart from scraps of information through their dreams or memories as clearly as Meier does? Why don't Meier's UFOs adequately describe any of the UFO's that have been witnessed in modern times.. and why did they treat him so nicely when they seem to be treating the rest of the human race like guinea pigs? The photos of the crafts he described are simple tin cans that are obvious models (for anyone who's actually seen a real ufo).. his 70's thinking implies that they're physical objects.. or saucers as it were.. UFOs are so much more advanced, and sometimes just objects of light that can seemingly transform their shape between light and matter at will. I reckon one of Meier's biggest contributions to this hoax by his own admition was when he asked the plejerians? (spelling).. how they travelled so fast.. and their reply was along the lines of.. we can't tell you that and you must never ask us why again.. simply because.. if he even attempted to answer that question.. he knew he'd find himself in hot water so fast this whole story would be a hard boiled egg!

Myrddin · 19-06-2012 9:07am

Mahigitam wrote: »

Why do the Plejaren/Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?

Semjase: "... For the last time I trouble myself to explain that any contacts with other persons except you are totally impossible. The reasons are as follows:

1. We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades.

2. We can contact individuals from Earth only if the necessary spiritual prerequisites are present.

3. We can get in contact with an individual from Earth only if that person has progressed so far in his development that he is able to work out and recognize the basic truth in the truth without assistance, and without considering any statements by other people or any writings.

The sheer amount of people that 'qualify' for this, is massive. Why not then give the message to someone like the Dalai Lama, who's voice is listened to all over the world. Surely he, who has studied faith, spirituality, peace & the human condition his whole life would have made a better candidate than some bloke who nobody knew?

squonk · 19-06-2012 10:56am

Thanks Mahigitam for answering my question in great detail. I appreciate it.

I don't get what they mean by an individual having executed studies in all spheres for years. Up to about 17-19 that could describe us all as we spend time in school studying languages, mathematics, humanities, sport, arts etc. After that it's normal for individuals to specialise and concentrate on a chosen field. Without concentrating on a particular area, you will not become an expert in that subject and, besides, I would think it's impossible for someone to have an equal interest and ability for all subjects and to keep studying these for years and years. Reading the description puts me in mind of a particularly broad minded PhD type. I think there would be quite a few candidates that could be identified based on those criteria.

ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group.

This sounds a lot like a cultish mindset. I could well believe such dedication if, once you've put your time in and assured the existing group that you were bone fide that you would then be allowed to meet the ETs or even get on board a ship but right now all I read is, to paraphrase "If you buy into this 100% you're extremely spiritual, honest and good and if you don't then you're an outcast and not worthy of the message". This sounds like the ethos of any religion going right now but as it's quite small with one man sitting on top of the pyramid, I'd describe it as a cult. Again this brings me back to why other contacts were not made. I know there are stated reasons why Billy is the man for the job yet even 1-2 other contacts elsewhere would transform this from a cult-like organisation to a more legitimate movement I feel.

Mahigitam · 22-06-2012 10:48am

dyer wrote: »

I'd like to understand, how this stands up to all the other people who claim to have been abducted.. why don't they remember anything apart from scraps of information through their dreams or memories as clearly as Meier does?

Meier was not abducted but contacted by ETs face-to-face consciously..

dyer wrote: »

Why don't Meier's UFOs adequately describe any of the UFO's that have been witnessed in modern times..

Meier's 5000 pages Contact notes is filled with them.

dyer wrote: »

..I reckon one of Meier's biggest contributions to this hoax by his own admition was when he asked the plejerians? (spelling).. how they travelled so fast.. and their reply was along the lines of.. we can't tell you that and you must never ask us why again.. simply because.. if he even attempted to answer that question.. he knew he'd find himself in hot water so fast this whole story would be a hard boiled egg!

Several types of transportation mechanisms used by Plejaren themselves & other ETs have been sufficiently explained by Plejaren and this information had been available in copyright dated contact notes since 1975. Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975 were astonished to know that Meier's information on Plejaren travel came very close to the theoretical calculations carried out by them.

From the type of questions you raised, it seems to me that you have no knowledge on the basic information in Meier Case. All the answers to your questions have been available publicly for free through documentaries or contact notes and which obviously seems to me that you didn't care to verify his story. Sorry to say this but i would only be addressing those questions that have more of a curiosity factor in them rather than being just judgmental.

Mahigitam · 22-06-2012 11:08am

EnterNow wrote: »

The sheer amount of people that 'qualify' for this, is massive. Why not then give the message to someone like the Dalai Lama, who's voice is listened to all over the world. Surely he, who has studied faith, spirituality, peace & the human condition his whole life would have made a better candidate than some bloke who nobody knew?

Have you read the several points listed in my previous post and if you did, i dont think you would have asked this question.

squonk wrote: »

I don't get what they mean by an individual having executed studies in all spheres for years. Up to about 17-19 that could describe us all as we spend time in school studying languages, mathematics, humanities, sport, arts etc. After that it's normal for individuals to specialise and concentrate on a chosen field. Without concentrating on a particular area, you will not become an expert in that subject and, besides, I would think it's impossible for someone to have an equal interest and ability for all subjects and to keep studying these for years and years. Reading the description puts me in mind of a particularly broad minded PhD type. I think there would be quite a few candidates that could be identified based on those criteria.

'All spheres' includes knowledge that not only concerns with the material life but also that of the spiritual life. For a complete answer, only Billy or FIGU can answer.

squonk wrote: »

ETs want their involvement to be as minimum as possible so that the Meier/FIGU members would have to create a strong will, motivation, feeling of responsibility, group cohesiveness, 'trusting each other', 'Spiritual learning'...etc to reach the goals given in the mission. By creating such framework, ETs ensured that only those people who are - sincere, honest, has the sufficient knowledge & will power to struggle daily to complete the mission - would join the group.

This sounds a lot like a cultish mindset. I could well believe such dedication if, once you've put your time in and assured the existing group that you were bone fide that you would then be allowed to meet the ETs or even get on board a ship but right now all I read is, to paraphrase "If you buy into this 100% you're extremely spiritual, honest and good and if you don't then you're an outcast and not worthy of the message".

You may want to refer the the meaning of 'Cult' in the dictionaries & then use it properly wherever it is justified. Otherwise most or all of our social, political & security institutions would also come under 'Cult'. Secondly, nobody except Billy is allowed to meet or fly with ETs & i think it was already mentioned before in the list of points given by Plejaren.

squonk wrote: »

This sounds like the ethos of any religion going right now but as it's quite small with one man sitting on top of the pyramid, I'd describe it as a cult. Again this brings me back to why other contacts were not made. I know there are stated reasons why Billy is the man for the job yet even 1-2 other contacts elsewhere would transform this from a cult-like organisation to a more legitimate movement I feel.

Have you even read the rules, statutes & regulations on how the Meier & his group functions ?

squonk · 22-06-2012 11:17am

Mahigitam wrote: »

Have you even read the rules, statutes & regulations on how the Meier & his group functions ?

No I haven't but I always get very worried when there's one guy who has unhindered access to the message/message givers and others who must use the guy as a proxy to get the message. It puts the guy in a powerful position.

Please let me know how the group operates if things are different from my impression. While I appreciate that explanations can be very detailed and are better read at length, I think my questions are basic enough and I'm not seeing things in this that fill me with confidence about Meier.

Mahigitam · 22-06-2012 11:30am

squonk wrote: »

No I haven't but I always get very worried when there's one guy who has unhindered access to the message/message givers and others who must use the guy as a proxy to get the message. It puts the guy in a powerful position.

Please let me know how the group operates if things are different from my impression. While I appreciate that explanations can be very detailed and are better read at length, I think my questions are basic enough and I'm not seeing things in this that fill me with confidence about Meier.

FIGU
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU
FIGU Statutes
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/4/47/Figu_statutes.pdf

To keep in mind also is this, which is available on the page about FIGU above.

"WE TOO ARE ONLY HUMAN
Outsiders often have either the erroneous notion or expectation that we FIGU members live according to each and every Creational law and commandment. This assumption is as incorrect as the belief that we are nearly "perfect". We are very normal people, just like everyone else. Though we do strive to live by the Creational laws and directives, we are not able to circumvent the natural course of evolution. For this reason it should be absolutely clear that we have the same faults and weaknesses that are incorporated into every individual's personal evolution."

Star Lord · 22-06-2012 11:28pm

Mahigitam wrote: »

FIGU
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU
FIGU Statutes
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/w/images/4/47/Figu_statutes.pdf

Three segments from around the middle of that first page:

HOW DO WE DIFFER FROM A RELIGION OR A SECT?
Without exception, all religions, sects and ideologies, among others, are based on assumptions and beliefs that are diametrically opposed to the truthful spiritual teachings presented to terrestrial human beings by FIGU via 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier, extraterrestrial human races, and by entities from higher and, indeed, the highest spiritual planes. These teachings are based on actual facts, truth, logic and wisdom. FIGU offers an opportunity for anyone to finally stride toward cognition of reality. After centuries, indeed millennia, of spiritual stagnation, a person can attain inner and outer freedom and assume the obligation of achieving personal spiritual evolution.

I think you'll find most cults/religions/sects would claim the same thing, that their 'truth' is the one 'truth'.

'BlLLY' MEIER
'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier's function is to act as the liaison between Pleiadians from planet ERRA and their confederates and human beings on Earth. His one-on-one telepathic and physical contacts with the aliens shall continue until his life ends. He imparts to us the Extraterrestrials' important messages, instructions and warnings; likewise, he is the author of valuable texts about Creational laws, directives, and other pertinent information.

So again, just one man that can 'hear' the voice of enlightment and steer the way?

IS 'BILLY' MEIER A PROPHET?
The Extraterrestrials have designated 'Billy' Eduard Albert Meier as the New Age Prophet. This does not mean, however, that he is a person with special authority. Rather, he is a human being like any other, but possesses unique capabilities and immense knowledge regarding spiritual matters and the corresponding wisdom. Through his contacts and his own acumen, he is capable of announcing the true teachings, messages and instructions that show the way to the future.

It really does sound just like any other cult to be perfectly honest with you.
And to be completely blunt, but you guys do sound a little... indoctrinated...

dyer · 23-06-2012 3:31am

Mahigitam wrote: »

Meier was not abducted but contacted by ETs face-to-face consciously..

Meier's 5000 pages Contact notes is filled with them.

Several types of transportation mechanisms used by Plejaren themselves & other ETs have been sufficiently explained by Plejaren and this information had been available in copyright dated contact notes since 1975. Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975 were astonished to know that Meier's information on Plejaren travel came very close to the theoretical calculations carried out by them.

From the type of questions you raised, it seems to me that you have no knowledge on the basic information in Meier Case. All the answers to your questions have been available publicly for free through documentaries or contact notes and which obviously seems to me that you didn't care to verify his story. Sorry to say this but i would only be addressing those questions that have more of a curiosity factor in them rather than being just judgmental.

please enlighten me then

i still haven't seen one shred of real evidence to support any of your beliefs at all.. except for billy's bible.

Even the scientists who were working on interplanetary travel back in 1975

?????

im starting to feel like the OP must have 5 boards accounts.. maybe 5 hands and six fingers too.

meier isn't the only one who claims to have had conversations with ET's, just the only one who's written a library on the matter.

i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

man if i was an alien.. id have a field day with this planet.

scratch that.. beam me up, scotty!

Mahigitam · 24-06-2012 7:42am

dyer wrote: »

i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

Go through these:
http://theyfly.com/Jupiter.htm
http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html
http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf

If you want to talk on the corroboration of prophecies & the IIG's research, then present your side of the argument with one prophecy at a time ...

tonybodhran · 26-06-2012 9:05pm

Mahigitam wrote: »

dyer wrote: »

i provided an article earlier where someone went through a great deal of trouble to test meier's predictions and found that they were more than likely copied from publically available scientific articles and journals of the time (most of which were available prior to his predictions.. but of course, that information wasn't available in those days like it is now with our friend the internet).. the ones that he got wrong are the most poignant indications of the fact, they were the same errors that popular science got wrong back then too because they didn't have the means or the technology to test those ideas out like we do today. so, if meier's had indeed gone on these magical adventures and had been exposed to such advanced technology and traversed the solar system and indeed the universe.. why were his predictions so accurately 'wrong' when compared to the broad scientific predictions that were made 40/50yrs ago?

Go through these:
http://theyfly.com/Jupiter.htm
http://theyfly.com/Wendelle-Stevens-Jupiter-Io.html
http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf

If you want to talk on the corroboration of prophecies & the IIG's research, then present your side of the argument with one prophecy at a time ...

Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.

Star Lord · 26-06-2012 9:07pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.

And yet when anyone replies with obvious gaping holes in the story, you regurgitate the same 'Oh, that was one of the photos that was tampered with' lines, or some such nonsense.

tonybodhran · 27-06-2012 10:27am

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

And yet when anyone replies with obvious gaping holes in the story, you regurgitate the same 'Oh, that was one of the photos that was tampered with' lines, or some such nonsense.

I've answered plenty of your questions fully and without regurgitation, it's others who keep regurgitating the same question over and over despite explanation and requests to discuss other matters.

Tell me o "objective one",without reference to Dean Martin, what part of the spiritual message to humanity that Meier was given do you disagree with most and please tell me why, I'm very curious as to why you think the message is all bollox.

squonk · 27-06-2012 10:53am

tonybodhran wrote: »

Dyer thinks we are all the same person using multiple accounts, it does not matter what you say you will be wasting your time as what ever you prove will be ignored as he moves on to the next thing he doesn't like or doesn't understand. We are obviously brainwashed by Meier's magic beard, that's what's going on. Its nothing to do with the fact that we know much more about the subject than you guys...no its obviously brainwashing....jebus.

To be honest, I'm very willing to accept that some photos may have been tampered with and maybe are not all that they appear and even the Dean Martin connection is bizarre but let's admit that and move on.

I know a lot of good answers have been received which is great. That certainly has helped me understand a bit better what is happening but I'm a bit lost now. A few people have pointed out that it's a bit questionable that Meier is, to quote Jose Murihnio, 'The Special One' and only he is qualified to communicate with the Plejorans. Given that we're not talking about gods here and that they are a fellow race, it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death. Would you buy stock in a company built solely around one innovator and when he's gone, so is the innovation? Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

The problem here is that if the plejorans were to be interpreted as some type of gods, then there's leeway becaue Gods can do anything. They're a fellow humanoid race so I'm going to judge them by our own standards. Even early man had backup plans so I'm certain an advanced race certainly will.

I find the attitude, 'Well, we know much more about this than you guys' a bit strange. I think we're all only asking logical questions here so I don't get the defensiveness.

In a way, you've got a handier time explaining things than Catholic preachers do. You have photographs. Catholics have heresay! I don't think I've seen anything here really essentially saying what the message is here that we're all supposed to adapt to. Ask people "What is Jesus' message?", you'll get something like Love, Understanding, tolerance and respect. Here, if it's asked "What's Billy's message?", Well, it's not that simple. It's a broad thing. Listen, you need to buy this book oh, and you need to read this bunch of notes. If you've got a message you need a tagline i.e. Jesus and Love, Obama and 'Yes We Can'. What's Billy's tagline? I don't want this to become a religious debate but, from all of this discussion so far, all I can tell about Meier's message is that religion is wrong.... If you talk to a jew however, catholics are wrong and vice versa, so how is Billy different, apart from saying "Religion is bad. M'Kay?".

Star Lord · 27-06-2012 1:10pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

I've answered plenty of your questions fully and without regurgitation, it's others who keep regurgitating the same question over and over despite explanation and requests to discuss other matters.

Tell me o "objective one",without reference to Dean Martin, what part of the spiritual message to humanity that Meier was given do you disagree with most and please tell me why, I'm very curious as to why you think the message is all bollox.

I've never claimed to be 'objective'. I may be the mod of the forum, but I am allowed an opinion, same as anyone else that uses the forum. I just have to be impartial with regard to any moderation that is carried out.

I've not been referring to the 'spiritual message' at all, not once. I've been referring in any of my posts to the evidence that has been provided, and once to the somewhat cult-ish appearance of how this seems to have ended up.

If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?

tonybodhran · 27-06-2012 2:57pm

squonk wrote: »

To be honest, I'm very willing to accept that some photos may have been tampered with and maybe are not all that they appear and even the Dean Martin connection is bizarre but let's admit that and move on.

I know a lot of good answers have been received which is great. That certainly has helped me understand a bit better what is happening but I'm a bit lost now. A few people have pointed out that it's a bit questionable that Meier is, to quote Jose Murihnio, 'The Special One' and only he is qualified to communicate with the Plejorans. Given that we're not talking about gods here and that they are a fellow race, it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death. Would you buy stock in a company built solely around one innovator and when he's gone, so is the innovation? Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

The problem here is that if the plejorans were to be interpreted as some type of gods, then there's leeway becaue Gods can do anything. They're a fellow humanoid race so I'm going to judge them by our own standards. Even early man had backup plans so I'm certain an advanced race certainly will.

I find the attitude, 'Well, we know much more about this than you guys' a bit strange. I think we're all only asking logical questions here so I don't get the defensiveness.

In a way, you've got a handier time explaining things than Catholic preachers do. You have photographs. Catholics have heresay! I don't think I've seen anything here really essentially saying what the message is here that we're all supposed to adapt to. Ask people "What is Jesus' message?", you'll get something like Love, Understanding, tolerance and respect. Here, if it's asked "What's Billy's message?", Well, it's not that simple. It's a broad thing. Listen, you need to buy this book oh, and you need to read this bunch of notes. If you've got a message you need a tagline i.e. Jesus and Love, Obama and 'Yes We Can'. What's Billy's tagline? I don't want this to become a religious debate but, from all of this discussion so far, all I can tell about Meier's message is that religion is wrong.... If you talk to a jew however, catholics are wrong and vice versa, so how is Billy different, apart from saying "Religion is bad. M'Kay?".

I realise you want a 15 second skynews explanation, but we are talking about very large concepts, and I don't think that's how we really learn properly but here goes..

Firstly Billy doesn't say religion is bad M'kay he says that no other species in the universe has religion like we do because it's just so ****ing stupid and illogical( Billy did not say ****ing stupid, it's longer than that but it means the same thing) And there is a world of difference between his explanation of a living spiritual creational energy and some beardy bloke living in the clouds smiting us with plagues.

Secondly Billy has done everything he was asked to do which was write the message down, he's not as important as the message is. The fact that there have been multiple assassination attempts on his life over the years and he survived would lend weight to the notion that he is the right man for the job alone.

To explain better why he was picked I have to go into the spiritual part of the message, so here is the short version.

By the way if you don't think that there is a spiritual aspect to people then don't bother reading.

The Plejaran teach that the Creation which is Universal Consciousness, as natural spirit-energy-form, is a spirit-energy-form based and existing purely on causal evolution out of which the likewise causal and evolution-related creational-natural laws and recommendations are given. Meaning that Creation itself is a living entity constantly evolving through it's existence by means of laws of cause and effect, laws which we should quite rightly follow as they govern and provide the function of the natural universe. It has neither personality or duality or trinity, it is an independent, natural and evolutive single-energetical form of unending spirit-energetical greatness and might.
Creation has the exact same process of evolution as every other living thing in the universe but on immense time scales.

The human being bears a fragment of spiritual energy imparted from creation, the purpose of human existence is to spiritually evolve from material form back to purely spiritual form over a period of billions of years. When the human dies the spirit form goes into a state of rebuilding a new personality for the next incarnation, the wisdom garnered however small is stored and available for subsequent incarnations, all knowledge of previous life is not stored and eventually after a period of time (around 150 years) the spirit form is incarnated into a new body to continue the process. Over time the Creation will eventually evolve to a point where it will create another universe having gathered the combined accumulated experience of every life form in the universe each having experienced countless completely independent existences and evolved back to a purely spiritual form to join with creation.

Over billions of years the human form will evolve along with the spiritual form. This is one of the reasons that the Plejaran will not communicate with us, we are too different from them, if you have ever walked into a room and gotten bad vibes from an asshole, imagine if you were so sensitive that those vibes could potentially kill you. (Tell me we are not a planet full of assholes)

Beings of sufficient advancement (not just Plejaran) take it upon them selves to help other races along in this evolutive process as you would teach a child although they have to do it within a strict set of guidelines. You can't teach a child how to grow up by saying grow up, they have to learn how to do it them selves through trial and error but you do try and show them the way.

They can do this by communicating with other races in a number ofdifferent ways:
By telepathic impulses most commonly, nudging people such as scientists artists etc. to think about concepts
By communicating directly physically or telepathically with a species sufficiently advanced that allows them this method.
Or by reincarnating on a planet and living as a native.
This method sucks ass for whoever is involved as you don't go back home after you die. Your spirit will reincarnate on whatever planet you expire on and this is generally a long term project if you have to do it anyway.
If you can imagine that for instance you have a whole planet full of billions of people who have gotten it wrong for thousands of years and you have to help them get themselves out of it and not do it for them it's going to be a big job that you will have to come back to again and again. Remember though evolution is a long process and in reality even a million years or so is a drop in the bucket for your spirit form and the life of the universe/Creation.

(PS-According to Meier there are many extraterrestrials who have died on the planet and subsequently reincarnated here over the millennia. Such as descendants of the Plejaran and others who colonised earth in the distant past and died here for one reason or another. These are now living as humans with normal lives with no knowledge of their background and will go through the normal process of evolution along with everyone else on earth although some will be further along the spiritual evolutionary ladder )

So Billy's spirit form has done it before in various incarnations in the past, the messenger was never supposed to be more important than the messenger but we screwed that up as well and developed more religions out of it, he has not always reincarnated as a teacher but would always have been a person of great wisdom. Billy was not aware of this as a young man as knowledge is not carried forward and he had to be instructed by the Plejaran from a young age. While he is completely human his spiritual evolutive level allowed them to directly contact him as opposed to others less evolved which would actually harm them to be even in the vicinity of. This is his last time around and has been the only time in history where the message will be written down unadulterated and be able to be accessed by the entire planet through modern communication methods, when ever we get around to it. I think that the plan is through scientific developments humans will gradually abandon their religious thinking over the next couple of hundred years (800 according to the Plejaran) and physical sciences will gradually catch up to spiritual sciences and the teachings will still be there for everyone. Thanks to the people at FIGU who are helping Billy store all his collected writings and making sure things aren't changed in translations etc. Billy's spirit form unfortunately has to stay here in his subsequent incarnations until we have evolved sufficiently for the Plejarans to make actual contact which will be a very long time. He will not be involved in this role in any subsequent incarnations, so no one can say they are Billy Meier reincarnated and start another religion.

Why a farmer in Switzerland? Why does it matter, the spirit incarnates into whatever situation most suited for it's purpose,and Billy completed his purpose, would he have been able to do everything he says he has born in London/Washington/Uganda?
As for everyone else it's the same, if you grow up in the jungles of Borneo eating your dead grandma to communicate with her and you die you will not be reincarnated into a family of learned scientists in new york, where would be the logic in that? Evolution is about growth, it's visible in every aspect of nature which is what the spiritual teachings are based on, the natural laws of cause and effect which lead to change and growth.You can't skip from being a fish to being an amphibian without going through the long evolutive process of trial and error.

Compare this explanation with Christianity or Islam, you get one life, you have to do it all perfectly and two choices are yours:BOOM- you are back with God the universe creator/Snuggling up with vestal virgins just after the latest series of X-factor or BOOM- Burning in hell for eternity and no virgins ever again..To me that doesn't make any kind of sense.
The world works through trial and error /cause and effect and growth, you can see it in the smallest life forms on earth to the largest galaxy's in the universe.

There you go, make of it what you will. If you believe in a spiritual side I think it's the only explanation I've ever heard that makes logical sense, if you don't then there is no point in discussing it any further. This is a very basic explanation of some of the concepts in which the content of the actual writings is staggering in it's scale and scope of information.
Thanks for being civil.
Peace.

tonybodhran · 27-06-2012 3:14pm

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

I've never claimed to be 'objective'. I may be the mod of the forum, but I am allowed an opinion, same as anyone else that uses the forum. I just have to be impartial with regard to any moderation that is carried out.

I've not been referring to the 'spiritual message' at all, not once. I've been referring in any of my posts to the evidence that has been provided, and once to the somewhat cult-ish appearance of how this seems to have ended up.

If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?

I've said it a number of times here, you keep harping on about 5 photographs out of hundreds of others that were analysed by professionals and they thought they were genuine. So you disregard the hundreds of others because of the 5 that are dodgy, some of them just because you don't like the look of them not because of any scientific reason.

Why do these few pictures invalidate the original investigation of hundreds of other pictures which is extensively documented in the 1970's and showed no evidence of hoaxing?

Is it beyond the bounds of reason to think that over the course of hundreds of people visiting Meier in his house in the 1970's that someone may have gotten hold of a few and messed with them to discredit him because of what he was saying? He took over 1200 photographs, he kept them in a shoe box under his bed, over 600 were stolen from him, is it not possible that when news started to come out that someone did not like what he was saying (maybe look at what he was saying) and messed with a few?

If you look at anything connected with UFO's in the current media the first thing that anyone says about the governments involvement is that they will cover it up, or put out an alternate story, was that invented recently?
What do you think governments would do to you if you started providing reasonable evidence of contact with an alien race who were saying that we were a bunch of lunatics and the only way to sort yourselves out was to get rid of the lunatics in control and start again?
Everyone on earth seems to think that this is entirely possible except only in regard to the Meier case. That in itself is unbelievable.

Star Lord · 27-06-2012 10:44pm

tonybodhran wrote: »

I've said it a number of times here, you keep harping on about 5 photographs out of hundreds of others that were analysed by professionals and they thought they were genuine. So you disregard the hundreds of others because of the 5 that are dodgy, some of them just because you don't like the look of them not because of any scientific reason.

Why do these few pictures invalidate the original investigation of hundreds of other pictures which is extensively documented in the 1970's and showed no evidence of hoaxing?

Well I've not pulled up any photos except for the ones that you've provided. So how is it that they are the ones used by Meier are also the ones that look fake? If this was the case, wouldn't he use the other photos instead? Why is it that any investigation into this apart from the ones you have mentioned that were done in the 70's is dismissed as doctoring the photos and dismissed out of hand?

IMHO, if it looks like a fish, and smells like a fish, and swims like a fish, chances are it's a fish.
Similarly, any 'evidence' that I've seen anywhere on this looks fake to be perfectly honest.
I'm getting tired of the same excuses for these being trotted out every time someone here shows some disbelief in this case, so this is the last time I'll be engaging on this topic.

tonybodhran · 28-06-2012 12:54am

I am also tired...fish it is. You win. Good night.

Mahigitam · 28-06-2012 4:25am

squonk wrote: »

...it's reasonable to question why Billy and only Billy is the sole contact. I mean, he could get knocked down by a car or have some particular health issue that either could incapacitate him or even cause his death...Out of 7bn people on earth, there has to be a second candidate for receipt of the message somewhere! Wouldn't it make sense to have a backup plan?

Before taking up contact with Billy, it was told that there were only 3(or 5?) other persons who could take up direct face-to-face contact with Plejaren. SO Billy is not the 'Special one' on earth for this job. But the by the time they started off the mission, noone of those 3 or 5 were living & at the same time Billy happened to be more capable & chose to carry the mission. Billy is the only direct contactee with Plejaren & there are hundreds(if not thousands) of indirect contactees on earth. These indirect contactees are experts/professionals in their fields who get neutral-inspirational impulses from these ETs to advance their fields...It was also told that Plejaren are in limited contact with very few people to do certain tasks and that these people didn't ever come before public to announce that they are in contact with ETs..

Mahigitam · 28-06-2012 4:43am

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

If the same questions are being asked again and again, does that not indicate to you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the evidence that has been presented? If someone tried to get you to buy into some investment scheme, and all of the facts and figures that were presented looked really dodgy, would you invest, taking them at their word, or would you step back, thinking that if what they claim as proof looks very much less than legitimate, then how can you believe the rest of what they have said?

It could also mean many things like, the person is unable to consider other evidence that is strong and also it could be that he is unable to evaluate the evidence without making any fallacies or errors in logic. The main reason why this issue or any issue discussed online can go on for several hundreds of threads is that there are no standards of evidence(SOE) to be considered and also that there is no judge who verifies the evidence, the arguments supporting it and finally to give the conclusion. So what happens is that the members go on asking irrelevant questions, make logical fallacies, attack the person who argue against their views,....etc. If there really were a judge and SOE, trust me we could have reached a fair conclusion along time ago...

dyer · 28-06-2012 6:02am

if i ever study philosophy.. this will be my thesis on circular reasoning

squonk · 28-06-2012 1:22pm

Mahigitam wrote: »

Before taking up contact with Billy, it was told that there were only 3(or 5?) other persons who could take up direct face-to-face contact with Plejaren. SO Billy is not the 'Special one' on earth for this job. But the by the time they started off the mission, noone of those 3 or 5 were living & at the same time Billy happened to be more capable & chose to carry the mission. Billy is the only direct contactee with Plejaren

This seems like a contradiction. Was Billy one of the original 3-5 people? Also, if they were able to find 3-5 people at tme X when the mission was contemplated but the candidates had died since, surely there had to be at least 2 available at time X+Y (when the mission took place) when Billy was picked? It doesn't really answer the question of why all their eggs are put in one basket.

Mahigitam wrote: »

& there are hundreds(if not thousands) of indirect contactees on earth. These indirect contactees are experts/professionals in their fields who get neutral-inspirational impulses from these ETs to advance their fields...It was also told that Plejaren are in limited contact with very few people to do certain tasks and that these people didn't ever come before public to announce that they are in contact with ETs..

How do we know then that's true or not? We have a single point of reference (Billy) and have to take his word for it. I can say that the guy who invented Velcro did so on the instructions of ETs. Unless the gentleman or lady concerned comes forward to confirm or deny what I say, I'm neither right nor wrong because what I say is unproven. Moments of inspiration I can take or leave. Are they telepathically transmitted ideas or naturally occuring in the brain? Who knows! That's open to interpretation and is necessearilly vauge however the assertion that there are others in limited contact with the ETs can be easily proven.

squonk · 28-06-2012 1:58pm

Thank you for the very detailed reply. I have some comments on this below.

tonybodhran wrote: »

I realise you want a 15 second skynews explanation, but we are talking about very large concepts, and I don't think that's how we really learn properly but here goes..

It may not be how you learn but the way I see this whole debate going is as follows. We both want to explain the concept of a car to somebody who's not seen one before.
Me: A Car is a metal cart. It gets you very quickly from A-B. Now, let's look at how it does that, getting more detailed as the student's knowledge increases.

Meier Crew: Here is the chemical equation for petrol. Here are some documents on how petrolium burns and the chemical reactions involved. Please read this engineering document on the dynamics between the axel and the drivetrain. You can't understand a car until you grasp these concepts.

tonybodhran wrote: »

Firstly Billy doesn't say religion is bad M'kay he says that no other species in the universe has religion like we do because it's just so ****ing stupid and illogical( Billy did not say ****ing stupid, it's longer than that but it means the same thing) And there is a world of difference between his explanation of a living spiritual creational energy and some beardy bloke living in the clouds smiting us with plagues.

Poorly worded by me perhaps but I still see it as Religion is stupid aka bad. Anyway, not worht arguing over.

tonybodhran wrote: »

Secondly Billy has done everything he was asked to do which was write the message down, he's not as important as the message is. The fact that there have been multiple assassination attempts on his life over the years and he survived would lend weight to the notion that he is the right man for the job alone.

It does? How? I think it says he's lucky but that's about it.

tonybodhran wrote: »

To explain better why he was picked I have to go into the spiritual part of the message, so here is the short version.

By the way if you don't think that there is a spiritual aspect to people then don't bother reading.

I think there is so we're in agreement there.

tonybodhran wrote: »

The Plejaran teach that the Creation which is Universal Consciousness, as natural spirit-energy-form, is a spirit-energy-form based and existing purely on causal evolution out of which the likewise causal and evolution-related creational-natural laws and recommendations are given. Meaning that Creation itself is a living entity constantly evolving through it's existence by means of laws of cause and effect, laws which we should quite rightly follow as they govern and provide the function of the natural universe. It has neither personality or duality or trinity, it is an independent, natural and evolutive single-energetical form of unending spirit-energetical greatness and might.
Creation has the exact same process of evolution as every other living thing in the universe but on immense time scales.

The human being bears a fragment of spiritual energy imparted from creation, the purpose of human existence is to spiritually evolve from material form back to purely spiritual form over a period of billions of years. When the human dies the spirit form goes into a state of rebuilding a new personality for the next incarnation, the wisdom garnered however small is stored and available for subsequent incarnations, all knowledge of previous life is not stored and eventually after a period of time (around 150 years) the spirit form is incarnated into a new body to continue the process.

I'm struggling to figure out how the wisdom can be discerned from the other stuff if the being isn't aware of the process anyway - but it's not something that can be definitively proved anyway.

tonybodhran wrote: »

Over time the Creation will eventually evolve to a point where it will create another universe having gathered the combined accumulated experience of every life form in the universe each having experienced countless completely independent existences and evolved back to a purely spiritual form to join with creation.

Over billions of years the human form will evolve along with the spiritual form. This is one of the reasons that the Plejaran will not communicate with us, we are too different from them, if you have ever walked into a room and gotten bad vibes from an asshole, imagine if you were so sensitive that those vibes could potentially kill you. (Tell me we are not a planet full of assholes)

But Billy isn't giving off these harmful deat inducing bad vibes? I fail to see how they will be killed though? Surely hanging around on a planet with a few billion inhabitants giving off bad vibes wouldn't be good for your health?

tonybodhran wrote: »

Beings of sufficient advancement (not just Plejaran) take it upon them selves to help other races along in this evolutive process as you would teach a child although they have to do it within a strict set of guidelines. You can't teach a child how to grow up by saying grow up, they have to learn how to do it them selves through trial and error but you do try and show them the way.

They can do this by communicating with other races in a number ofdifferent ways:
By telepathic impulses most commonly, nudging people such as scientists artists etc. to think about concepts
By communicating directly physically or telepathically with a species sufficiently advanced that allows them this method.
Or by reincarnating on a planet and living as a native.
This method sucks ass for whoever is involved as you don't go back home after you die. Your spirit will reincarnate on whatever planet you expire on and this is generally a long term project if you have to do it anyway.

So, you can choose to show up on a planet for reincarnation but you can't get off that planet afterwards. Presumably any plejoran who wants to do this has been reincarnating on Lyra or whatever planet they are from over quite a while. Why can they decide to reincarnate somewhere else then? If they can't go back to Lyra after their earth reincarnation, how did they get to earth in the first place given that you can only reincarnate on the planet you died on and they'd have died on Lyra.

tonybodhran wrote: »

If you can imagine that for instance you have a whole planet full of billions of people who have gotten it wrong for thousands of years and you have to help them get themselves out of it and not do it for them it's going to be a big job that you will have to come back to again and again. Remember though evolution is a long process and in reality even a million years or so is a drop in the bucket for your spirit form and the life of the universe/Creation.

(PS-According to Meier there are many extraterrestrials who have died on the planet and subsequently reincarnated here over the millennia. Such as descendants of the Plejaran and others who colonised earth in the distant past and died here for one reason or another. These are now living as humans with normal lives with no knowledge of their background and will go through the normal process of evolution along with everyone else on earth although some will be further along the spiritual evolutionary ladder )

But again, just like the catholics who belive that if you believe in Jesus you're off to heaven, the lure for Meier's supporters is that they're the smartest guys in the room and have it all figured out above everybody else.

tonybodhran wrote: »

So Billy's spirit form has done it before in various incarnations in the past, the messenger was never supposed to be more important than the messenger but we screwed that up as well and developed more religions out of it, he has not always reincarnated as a teacher but would always have been a person of great wisdom. Billy was not aware of this as a young man as knowledge is not carried forward and he had to be instructed by the Plejaran from a young age. While he is completely human his spiritual evolutive level allowed them to directly contact him as opposed to others less evolved which would actually harm them to be even in the vicinity of. This is his last time around and has been the only time in history where the message will be written down unadulterated and be able to be accessed by the entire planet through modern communication methods, when ever we get around to it. I think that the plan is through scientific developments humans will gradually abandon their religious thinking over the next couple of hundred years (800 according to the Plejaran) and physical sciences will gradually catch up to spiritual sciences and the teachings will still be there for everyone. Thanks to the people at FIGU who are helping Billy store all his collected writings and making sure things aren't changed in translations etc. Billy's spirit form unfortunately has to stay here in his subsequent incarnations until we have evolved sufficiently for the Plejarans to make actual contact which will be a very long time. He will not be involved in this role in any subsequent incarnations, so no one can say they are Billy Meier reincarnated and start another religion.

That makes sense but you could also look at it in another way, he's protecting his legacy. If the group does take off, he doesn't want to be sidelines in history later on if John Smith shows up claiming to be Billy Meier's reincarnation, because widely adored and the original guy is lost.

tonybodhran wrote: »

Why a farmer in Switzerland? Why does it matter, the spirit incarnates into whatever situation most suited for it's purpose,and Billy completed his purpose, would he have been able to do everything he says he has born in London/Washington/Uganda?

Well by taking photos and writing stuff down, then yes.

tonybodhran wrote: »

As for everyone else it's the same, if you grow up in the jungles of Borneo eating your dead grandma to communicate with her and you die you will not be reincarnated into a family of learned scientists in new york, where would be the logic in that? Evolution is about growth, it's visible in every aspect of nature which is what the spiritual teachings are based on, the natural laws of cause and effect which lead to change and growth.You can't skip from being a fish to being an amphibian without going through the long evolutive process of trial and error.

Fair point but it's also something designed to keep the middle to upper educated monied types hanging around as well. they are being told they're eveolving and since they're relatively smart people, they can assume they're fairly on up the chain. I may not put that across very well but it seems to be a message designed for a specific type of audience.

tonybodhran wrote: »

Compare this explanation with Christianity or Islam, you get one life, you have to do it all perfectly and two choices are yours:BOOM- you are back with God the universe creator/Snuggling up with vestal virgins just after the latest series of X-factor or BOOM- Burning in hell for eternity and no virgins ever again..To me that doesn't make any kind of sense.
The world works through trial and error /cause and effect and growth, you can see it in the smallest life forms on earth to the largest galaxy's in the universe.

I agree with you there. You have to question fully whatever doctrine you choose to follow in your life. It's certainly the opposite of the traditional doctrines.

tonybodhran wrote: »

There you go, make of it what you will. If you believe in a spiritual side I think it's the only explanation I've ever heard that makes logical sense, if you don't then there is no point in discussing it any further. This is a very basic explanation of some of the concepts in which the content of the actual writings is staggering in it's scale and scope of information.
Thanks for being civil.
Peace.

thanks for taking the time out to fill me in. It made for interesting reading.

tonybodhran · 28-06-2012 7:57pm

squonk wrote: »

Thank you for the very detailed reply. I have some comments on this below.

It may not be how you learn but the way I see this whole debate going is as follows. We both want to explain the concept of a car to somebody who's not seen one before.
Me: A Car is a metal cart. It gets you very quickly from A-B. Now, let's look at how it does that, getting more detailed as the student's knowledge increases.

Meier Crew: Here is the chemical equation for petrol. Here are some documents on how petrolium burns and the chemical reactions involved. Please read this engineering document on the dynamics between the axel and the drivetrain. You can't understand a car until you grasp these concepts.

It's actually more like this.. (Not directed at you personally, this is how it always goes..)
Me:I came across this really cool thing called a car
Not me: What is it ?
Me : It's a thing for getting you around places with out walking, it's a machine..
Not me:Explain it to me in 10 words
Me: well its kind of complicated it's got wheels and an engine and exhaust and you can sit in it ..but you can read this magazine about it if you think you are interested in it it will only take an hour or so to understand
Not me: Don't have time, got important things to do..explain it quickly...what's an exhaust
Me: Well then it won't really make sense to just pick a bit out and explain it like that
Not me:Tell me or I'm walking away
Me:Alright...
One hour later
Not me:I don't like cars I only like walking.

squonk wrote: »

It does? How? I think it says he's lucky but that's about it.

If you know the background behind the attempts then it's not really luck.

squonk wrote: »

I'm struggling to figure out how the wisdom can be discerned from the other stuff if the being isn't aware of the process anyway - but it's not something that can be definitively proved anyway.

As I said there is thousands of pages on the nature of spirituality written detailing every aspect of the process of life death and rebirth. There is far too much to go into detail here. But no it can't be proven but it does make logical evolutive sense.

squonk wrote: »

But Billy isn't giving off these harmful deat inducing bad vibes? I fail to see how they will be killed though? Surely hanging around on a planet with a few billion inhabitants giving off bad vibes wouldn't be good for your health?

As I said Billy has an older spirit form and he was tutored from a young age to do this so he can interact with them. As for the rest of us, they can shield themselves from us to a certain extent but it's not 100% reliable and highly dangerous for them if it fails. It doesn't kill them , it's makes them become highly irrational which to them is not good. Allegedly one of them was injured when she was talking to Billy in his office and didn't have this shield up, someone tried to sneak up and hear what was being said and she freaked out and fell over smashing her head on a table. So not good for them.

squonk wrote: »

So, you can choose to show up on a planet for reincarnation but you can't get off that planet afterwards. Presumably any plejoran who wants to do this has been reincarnating on Lyra or whatever planet they are from over quite a while. Why can they decide to reincarnate somewhere else then? If they can't go back to Lyra after their earth reincarnation, how did they get to earth in the first place given that you can only reincarnate on the planet you died on and they'd have died on Lyra.

Plejaran or any other physical being can't decide to reincarnate anywhere. They get here by ships same as everyone else visiting.But if they die here their spirit form is tied here, unless the subsequent incarnation manages to leave the planet but then they would be human not Plejaran. Understand?It's the same for everyone. If one of us manages to get to another planet and dies there our spirit form will reincarnate on that planet or the nearest inhabited planet with lifeforms capable of housing spiritforms. It's a little more complicated than that but you get the idea.

There are higher evolved races than Plejaran, pure spirit forms, these guys are closer in evolution to Creation and also advise the Plejaran and can decide to do reincarnate elsewhere if they wish but I don't think it happens very often. Who would want to go through billions of years of evolution then start again nearly at the beginning. So it's a special case here as we are in such a mess.

squonk wrote: »

But again, just like the catholics who belive that if you believe in Jesus you're off to heaven, the lure for Meier's supporters is that they're the smartest guys in the room and have it all figured out above everybody else.

Not really, it doesn't matter what you do or believe,logically the universe will evolve whether you or anyone else believes it or not. Me understanding the nature of it doesn't change anything, ideally it should help me focus on things for my self betterment, everyone else will get there anyway at their own speed. So no it's very different.

squonk wrote: »

That makes sense but you could also look at it in another way, he's protecting his legacy. If the group does take off, he doesn't want to be sidelines in history later on if John Smith shows up claiming to be Billy Meier's reincarnation, because widely adored and the original guy is lost.

Except that he states categorically that he is not someone to be worshipped, he is a teacher that should be respected for the work he is doing nothing more. FIGU who work with Billy are committed to ensuring that everything he has ever written is unchanged word for word, that way no one can claim he said this or that falsely

squonk wrote: »

Well by taking photos and writing stuff down, then yes.

This location seemed to suit how everything turned out.

squonk wrote: »

Fair point but it's also something designed to keep the middle to upper educated monied types hanging around as well. they are being told they're eveolving and since they're relatively smart people, they can assume they're fairly on up the chain. I may not put that across very well but it seems to be a message designed for a specific type of audience.

Evolution applies to everyone it doesn't matter what stage you are at and in regards to humans any difference between anyone else is essentially meaningless in the grand scheme of how far we have to go but there is still levels of increment.

squonk wrote: »

thanks for taking the time out to fill me in. It made for interesting reading.

No problem
Peace

Myrddin · 29-06-2012 8:48am

Why, if these aliens are capable of time travel, don't they travel back to a time before the first alien group interfered with us & prevent it from happening? Surely in doing that, there'd be no need for any of this Meier stuff...

tonybodhran · 29-06-2012 11:30am

EnterNow wrote: »

Why, if these aliens are capable of time travel, don't they travel back to a time before the first alien group interfered with us & prevent it from happening? Surely in doing that, there'd be no need for any of this Meier stuff...

According to them you can't alter the past, if you could the universe would cease to exist also if you think about it the Plejaran trying to stop the other Plejaran would cease to exist since they are their descendants. Paradox's don't exist in nature only in star trek. Nothing that has happened can be undone, you can observe it but you can't change it. No one will ever travel back in time to kill Hitler because that didn't happen. Time travel like everything else is governed by laws of nature/ cause and effect .Their explanation of how time travel works is very cool and also the only logical theory I've ever come across. It involves the speed of light which they say is not exactly constant and and the speed of the expansion of space and time which changes over eons so travelling to a different era involves the frequency of the speed of light in that time and when you get there it's essentially another dimension which is not possible to interact with bar observation without very complicated technology allowing you to do so. An what ever has happened in the past has happened ,similarly what you observe n the future will happen.From our perspective it is unwritten which is true but if you go there and observe it, it's happened and can't be changed. This is different from travelling to parallel dimensions that exist in the same temporal plane. You can do what you like there. The whole subject is quite complicated but very interesting.

The Billy Meier UFO case Switzerland

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