Car free Dublin City Centre?

buffalo · 10-06-2015 7:39pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how on earth do you pedestrianise Suffolk st currently, a huge number of south side bus routes go down there as well as Aircoach etc. Where do all they end up going? Reconvert lower Grafton to two way, or big detours out via George st or Trinity loop down Westland row?

Suffolk St is currently closed to all traffic, and has been for a couple of months, and the sky hasn't fallen in.

SPDUB · 10-06-2015 7:42pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how on earth do you pedestrianise Suffolk st currently, a huge number of south side bus routes go down there as well as Aircoach etc. Where do all they end up going? Reconvert lower Grafton to two way, or big detours out via George st or Trinity loop down Westland row?

It's been closed to traffic for the last 2 months because of Luas works so they could just keep it closed

ETA Answered already

rp · 10-06-2015 8:42pm

jon1981 wrote: »

I can see the huge challenge they will with the car parks

Turn them into multi-story dance clubs, the ambience would be fantastic, all styles catered for with a floor each!

kerry4sam · 10-06-2015 8:44pm

Orion wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/cars-banned-dublin-city-centre-2152917-Jun2015/

The new Dublin City Development Plan will have large sections of the city centre restricted to buses, bikes and pedestrians if passed. College Green, Suffolk Street, North and South Quays among others. Very interesting. Personally I think this would be a great thing for Dublin in general apart from being great for cyclists and public transport commuters. Imaging being able to cycle up the quays and only have to dodge buses instead of cars and taxis.

What do others think?

I understand this is the Cycling forum and not the Commuting/Transport forum but from a different physical perspective.
We do have a generation of people out here who are not all that comfortable on public transport and especially so in built-up City areas.
We also have people who would have a disability of sorts in the movements and should anything happen on public transport, well they wouldn't stand a chance.
Just read varying areas on issues on public transport in Dublin to get a feel for what I'm referring to.

I think an exception should be allowed for say, a vehicle with a 'disabled' badge perhaps. That could assist with easing the minds & helping confidence of some folks.

Dublin is grand if you're fit and mobile in your movements. Have any form of restricted movement and Dublin is not that comfortable a city to be in.

Just don't think hearing, well stay outta Dublin then would actually solve anything. Especially so if they are there to visit loved ones etc.

I hope someone out there has thoughts of these and measures will be put in place to assist.
Just my thoughts,
kerry4sam

/just speaking from personal experiences here

rp · 10-06-2015 8:51pm

Ranchu wrote: »

Great news for the large shopping centres in the suburbs if passed. Fatal for retail in the city centre though.

I seem to remember reading that when Amsterdam banned cars from the city centre, retail, cafes, resturants all experienced a big increase in business.
This article suggests that local trade can see 40% increase, and that kind of makes sense. Long gone are the days you'd pull up outside James Foxes to run in to grab a handful of Havanas. Cars are mostly rat-running from one side of the city to the other.

magicbastarder · 10-06-2015 9:08pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

If they would start slowly and just do South William street and turn it into the pedestrianised cafe street that it's crying out to be, then I'd be happy.

this is a pet peeve of mine. it's a narrow street and they allow parking on both sides of the road, so it's incredibly pedestrian unfriendly, especially along the southern half.

Bucklesman · 10-06-2015 9:15pm

jon1981 wrote: »

i wonder if that would be so. Would be interesting to see if there was a study done on this based on other cities that introduced this. I mean you can still park close enough to town without having to drive up the quays or college green. There's christchurch and Stephens green multi story for example and many many roads that have on street parking.

Ranchu wrote: »

The car parks won't be able to deal with the extra capacity and the people currently driving in are most likely doing so because they are buying something bulky or have kids in tow. Closing off College Green and the quays is also going to make congestion far worse everywhere else.

I live a 15 minute walk from Grafton Street but if I'm buying anything big or a few things I already prefer to drive off to a retail park. Anything smaller and I'll just walk to town. Maybe most people do this already and it won't have as big an impact as I think it will.

There was a study done earlier this year by the NTA that found that less than a fifth of revenue on Grafton Street and Henry Street was from people who came by car.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/public-transport-users-and-walkers-spend-most-in-dublin-shops-1.2107019

Greenmachine · 10-06-2015 9:23pm

What if you need to access somewhere in the north inner city like fairview or ballybough or the north strand. No car on bachelors walk. Are cars expected to turnoff already at parkgate street and arrive there via the north circular road?

Spanish Eyes · 10-06-2015 9:25pm

Grafton Street is a dump full of mobile phone shops, fast food and ironically high end stuff aswell.

Imagine the so called Premier Street in the city has no benches to sit on.

Imagine it doesn't have any nice street cafes with outdoor seating (for good weather obv.) that adds so much to the ambience of a street.

TBH I am baffled as to why people go there at all. Can't remember the last time I was on it, oh yes, getting to Gotham. But I could have used Dawson Street.

Sth William Street is such a great candidate for pedestrianisation. Vision, Vision....

Spanish Eyes · 10-06-2015 9:26pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

What if you need to access somewhere in the north inner city like fairview or ballybough or the north strand. No car on bachelors walk. Are cars expected to turnoff already at parkgate street and arrive there via the north circular road?

Well why not? It's not as if you are stopping off in O'Connell Street for a burger on the way.

Non car users are slowly getting their city back. Hallelujah.

magicbastarder · 10-06-2015 9:29pm

i've always been in two minds about the wisdom of allowing taxis to use lanes which private cars are not allowed into - a taxi is no more efficient a way of getting from A to B than a private car, and is arguably less so, as the capacity of a taxi is usually 4 'travellers' but 5 for a private car.
multi-occupancy lanes make far more sense.

magicbastarder · 10-06-2015 9:30pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well why not? It's not as if you are stopping off in O'Connell Street for a burger on the way.

to be fair, the NCR can be bedlam during rush hour.

Spanish Eyes · 10-06-2015 9:34pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

to be fair, the NCR can be bedlam during rush hour.

Where isn't?

Spanish Eyes · 10-06-2015 9:42pm

There will always be complaints and angst when something like this is proposed. I rarely if ever take my car into town nowadays, it is just not worth it.

Having said that there ARE people for whom a car is essential. But I doubt all of them really mean that!

It looks like this thing has legs. And I know lots of people will be put out. However, gradually, over time it will happen I think. And the NTA and DCC have said that alternative routes will be in place, deliveries will be catered for, and car parks will be sorted. I'm not too sure about that one though, a massive car park at Heuston?

Something has to be done though. The city is totally choked, and pedestrians are often like sardines on College Green/Westmoreland St. it is heaving. And all the bus stops on WM Street don't help either. The paths are just far too narrow for all the bodies using those paths.

I am not rabid about it either way. But I am open to sensible proposals.

I am sure no matter what I will not be happy be many things about it. Same for everyone else. But for the sake of our city and quality of life, I welcome debate about it anyway.

Ranchu · 10-06-2015 10:12pm

Bucklesman wrote: »

There was a study done earlier this year by the NTA that found that less than a fifth of revenue on Grafton Street and Henry Street was from people who came by car.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/public-transport-users-and-walkers-spend-most-in-dublin-shops-1.2107019

A fifth is still a lot. If your salary was cut by a fifth you'd know all about it.

rp wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that when Amsterdam banned cars from the city centre, retail, cafes, resturants all experienced a big increase in business.
This article suggests that local trade can see 40% increase, and that kind of makes sense. Long gone are the days you'd pull up outside James Foxes to run in to grab a handful of Havanas. Cars are mostly rat-running from one side of the city to the other.

That article doesn't really address the issue of access though. It talks about having a more active population and that's it.

monument · 10-06-2015 10:26pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

What if you need to access somewhere in the north inner city like fairview or ballybough or the north strand. No car on bachelors walk. Are cars expected to turnoff already at parkgate street and arrive there via the north circular road?

If you're coming from around Parkgate St, I can't see the issue using the North Circular Road... Is there one?

Ranchu wrote: »

A fifth is still a lot. If your salary was cut by a fifth you'd know all about it.

Where is it suggested that all car access will be cut?

L'Enfer du Nord · 10-06-2015 11:17pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Grafton Street is a dump full of mobile phone shops, fast food and ironically high end stuff aswell.

Imagine the so called Premier Street in the city has no benches to sit on.

Imagine it doesn't have any nice street cafes with outdoor seating (for good weather obv.) that adds so much to the ambience of a street.

TBH I am baffled as to why people go there at all. Can't remember the last time I was on it, oh yes, getting to Gotham. But I could have used Dawson Street.

Sth William Street is such a great candidate for pedestrianisation. Vision, Vision....

Have to disagree with your vision for Grafton street. It's been a shopping street since the 19th century. Are their that many fast food joints? I like to sit outside with a coffee or drink as much as the next man but Grafton street is a shopping street not an entrainment hub. I'm not a huge fan of Grafton Street but I 'd really miss it if all the shops were replaced by charmless coffee shops and restaurants. And believe me with Grafton street rents they would be charmless.

Bucklesman · 11-06-2015 12:01am

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Have to disagree with your vision for Grafton street. It's been a shopping street since the 19th century. Are their that many fast food joints? I like to sit outside with a coffee or drink as much as the next man but Grafton street is a shopping street not an entrainment hub. I'm not a huge fan of Grafton Street but I 'd really miss it if all the shops were replaced by charmless coffee shops and restaurants. And believe me with Grafton street rents they would be charmless.

I reckon the high rent and massive crowds you get on Grafton Street are evidence that town is crying out for more pedestrianised streets.

L'Enfer du Nord · 11-06-2015 12:40am

Bucklesman wrote: »

I reckon the high rent and massive crowds you get on Grafton Street are evidence that town is crying out for more pedestrianised streets.

I agree, what it really needs is a big open square. I'd consider paving over the Liffy between O'Connell Bridge and Butt Bridge. Not likely to happen. College Green when closed off to traffic would be quite a big space.

Grafton street can get jammers, buskers make it worse.

ted1 · 11-06-2015 12:50am

They need to remove the toll from the east link. Plenty of people using o'connell bridge, butt bridge, etc to get to clontarf etc, as they don't want to pay the toll.

Also single occupancy cats should be banned during rush hour, while cars with 4 or more should be allowed in the bus lane/ car pool lane

The future is bright for couriers with cargo bikes.

rp · 11-06-2015 8:09am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've always been in two minds about the wisdom of allowing taxis to use lanes which private cars are not allowed into - a taxi is no more efficient a way of getting from A to B than a private car, and is arguably less so, as the capacity of a taxi is usually 4 'travellers' but 5 for a private car.

Be in one mind. It would make more sense environmentally to let Boeing 727s use the Bike/Bus lane:
Bikes_Most_Efficient.png.662x0_q70_crop-scale.jpg

Tenzor07 · 11-06-2015 8:13am

I think they should re-open Grafton street to car's and bus traffic!

ThisRegard · 11-06-2015 8:28am

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Have to disagree with your vision for Grafton street. It's been a shopping street since the 19th century. Are their that many fast food joints? I like to sit outside with a coffee or drink as much as the next man but Grafton street is a shopping street not an entrainment hub. I'm not a huge fan of Grafton Street but I 'd really miss it if all the shops were replaced by charmless coffee shops and restaurants. And believe me with Grafton street rents they would be charmless.

Yeah, because the several McDonald's, Burger Kings, phone shops and tat crap add so much more character.

Grandpa Hassan · 11-06-2015 9:09am

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yeah, because the several McDonald's, Burger Kings, phone shops and tat crap add so much more character.

I'd have to agree with ThisRegard. The state of retail on Grafton right now is woeful.

Hrududu · 11-06-2015 9:11am

ted1 wrote: »

Also single occupancy cats should be banned during rush hour

Dades · 11-06-2015 10:16am

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yeah, because the several McDonald's, Burger Kings, phone shops and tat crap add so much more character.

There's only one McDonalds, and two BKs. Yes, there's a bunch of well presented phone shops but there's also two BTs, Tommy Hilfiger, Massimo Dutti, Swarovski and other misc jewellers etc. If people want to eat/drink there's loads of open air places on the likes of Ann Street and Duke Street.

I was in Paris last month and the Champs Elysees is an identical mix of phone shops, sports shops, Next, M&S... together with high end fashion stuff.

My only issue with Grafton Street is the buskers who cause crowds to form in the narrower points and/or use amps.

tomasrojo · 11-06-2015 10:22am

Dades wrote: »

My only issue with Grafton Street is the buskers who cause crowds to form in the narrower points and/or use amps.

Don't really mind the buskers directly (I used to do it myself), but people forming a large circle around the performer is a real problem if you're trying to get up Grafton Street in a hurry, as I used to be, three days a week, pushing a double stroller.

(Might be a bit of envy, as I never attracted a large circle of street-blocking admirers.)

ThisRegard · 11-06-2015 10:32am

Dades wrote: »

There's only one McDonalds, and two BKs. Yes, there's a bunch of well presented phone shops but there's also two BTs, Tommy Hilfiger, Massimo Dutti, Swarovski and other misc jewellers etc. If people want to eat/drink there's loads of open air places on the likes of Ann Street and Duke Street.

I was in Paris last month and the Champs Elysees is an identical mix of phone shops, sports shops, Next, M&S... together with high end fashion stuff.

My only issue with Grafton Street is the buskers who cause crowds to form in the narrower points and/or use amps.

First, the Champs Elysees is not all that, it's only worth going down if the Tour is on.

I used to work on Grafton Street for years during the 90s. Doesn't matter what how many other good stores are there, it's still not as good as it could be. And I stand corrected, there's only 3 fast food restaurants in that short space of road, not 4.

tomasrojo wrote: »

Don't really mind the buskers directly (I used to do it myself), but people forming a large circle around the performer is a real problem if you're trying to get up Grafton Street in a hurry, as I used to be, three days a week, pushing a double stroller.

(Might be a bit of envy, as I never attracted a large circle of street-blocking admirers.)

You weren't the little traveller who sang the same verse of Ironic, over and over, every bloody evening outside PTSB when I was there were you

tomasrojo · 11-06-2015 10:40am

ThisRegard wrote: »

You weren't the little traveller who sang the same verse of Ironic, over and over, every bloody evening outside PTSB when I was there were you

No, but you do find that you know a small selection of songs (or pieces if you do classical guitar, which is what I was doing) that get a lot more money than all the others you know. Cavatina, Asturias and Recuerdos de la Alhambra for me. Pachelbel's Canon, if you're a string quartet.

Maybe Ironic was that kid's earner.

ThisRegard · 11-06-2015 10:45am

It had to be her earner, it was the only song she ever sang. I used to enjoy the buskers back then, particularly when it was a quieter street than it is now Leave the window open on a summers evening if there was a good one nearby. And then pop into Bruxelles for a quick one before heading home.

Car free Dublin City Centre?

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