air rifles?

extremetaz · 21-03-2013 1:40pm

Yeah, 30ft.lb's is pretty much the preserve of the '90 if you fancy gas ram, or the '80 if you want to stick with a springer.

Both are break barrell though rather than underlever

1shot16 · 21-03-2013 10:47pm

recipio wrote: »

Remember a rabbits skull is about the size of a plum under all that fur so shot placement ( just behing the eye ) is important.

Can you shoot them between the eyes head on...i heard the pellet can bounce/glance off!

amjc1974 · 22-03-2013 3:40am

slug gun wrote: »

The Eliminator came close to the 30 ft lbs, but it wasn't a springer, it had the gas ram!:) The Webley Patriot, which was a springer though, produced mid 20's ft lbs in .22 and a bit higher still in .25....but it was a heavy beast, tough to cock and harsh to shoot.

You're right, PCP's are an easier air rifle to shoot, at all power levels. But for me, the fun of airgunning is shooting/hunting/tuning mid powered springers!:D

Does tuning a springer really improve its performance or is there any need for it and if so how would you go about tuning?

slug gun · 22-03-2013 10:27am

amjc1974 wrote: »

Does tuning a springer really improve its performance or is there any need for it and if so how would you go about tuning?

Yes, I believe a mass produced factory spring piston air rifle can benefit from a tune…this doesn’t necessarily mean trying to squeeze every last drop of power from it though!

Here’s a list of considerations,
Polishing and deburring all tool marks/sharp edges from internal parts
Reassembling with higher quality lubes/tar in the right places!
Swapping out the original factory spring, spring guide, piston washer etc with upgraded custom parts
Looking at the static compression ratio, with a view to modifying the swept volume and transfer port dimensions.

I’ve just finished working on a 1966 Weihrauch HW55T, that needed some TLC. Here’s basically what I did:

Stripped and degreased all internal parts and polished cocking slot and cocking shoe.
Fitted a new spring, leather washer and Delrin guide. See first pic as to sorry state of original spring & washer.
Installed “buttons” (small discs) on the rear skirt of the piston to remove metal to metal contact, during cocking and firing.
Applied new moly grease and tar on piston and spring.
Rebuilt trigger mechanism after relubing with light machine oil. Trigger unit had nearly seized with old grease drying out and hardening.

http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/SLUG22/library/HW55T?page=1

Slug

extremetaz · 22-03-2013 11:18am

1shot16 wrote: »

Can you shoot them between the eyes head on...i heard the pellet can bounce/glance off!

nah, I'd call bull**** on that - skull isn't near thick enough to cleanly deflect an air pellet.

amjc1974 wrote: »

Does tuning a springer really improve its performance or is there any need for it and if so how would you go about tuning?

As slug gun says, tuning is far less about generating more power than it is about making the rifle cycle more smoothly. This in turn makes it easier to shoot.

Power means precisely f*ck all if you can't put that little lump of lead where you want it every time.

I've mentioned it on here somewhere before, but in my opinion about 18ft.lbs is the sweet spot for a spring or ram gun. Enough poke to keep the trajectory reasonably flat out to respectable ranges, and enough recoil to keep things interesting without making it impossible to learn from.

Once you start going above ~20ft.lbs in a springer, then you really need to have your technique in place already because they jump around so much that you'll never figure out what you're doing wrong unless you know exactly what you *need* to be doing in the first place.

The auld boys HW90 was like that - think it was around 28ft.lbs or so. Mad yoke altogether - it was a .177 and laser flat out to about 40m with Daystate Rangemaster Li's. But you really had to *know* how to hold it to hit anything. Having said that - it had a HORRIBLE trigger, and could definitely have used a bit of work in that regard.

@SG: Now those are the right sights to have on an airgun. Have you a post or a ring in the forsight? She's a fine looking example!

recipio · 22-03-2013 1:56pm

I agree, you need a very solidly built gun to take the harsh recoil of higher power. Theoben used to sell a gas ram to fit the HW80 which brought it up to about 25ft/lbs. ( sorry, I forgot the Eliminator was a gas ram )
There are custom firms in the UK like Steve Pope who will 'customize ' a gun but its such a hassle in this ROI of ours to send a gun over I doubt anybody would bother.
We deserve less totalitarian airgun laws IMHO.

slug gun · 22-03-2013 5:03pm

extremetaz wrote: »

@SG: Now those are the right sights to have on an airgun. Have you a post or a ring in the forsight? She's a fine looking example!

Weihrauch have a selection of front sight elements that can be put into the tunnel- I've got the circular ring one in, which is fun to use with the dioptre rear sight. That's also the original Weihrauch rear sight that came with the HW55T.

I had been on the look out for a 55T for the last 15 years and when one surfaced I grabbed it!:D It's in great nick for its age(47), and shoots way better than I can...but I can still get most of the pellets to group about 3/4 inch at 15m. It was originally a 10m Olympic rifle, but if you replace the spring with one from a period HW50, and tweak the tp, then it can be used as a punchy "sporter" giving up to 10 ft lb. They used to do that in the US and use it as a "porch gun" for squirrels and other small critters!:D

extremetaz · 22-03-2013 6:23pm

10m olympic with a break barrel springer?!?

That'd test ya! Were the targets bigger?

Would have thought potentially more of a Bell ringing rifle.

1shot16 · 23-03-2013 1:36am

Would it be worth putting a bipod on my hw97k .22 heard bipods and springers dont go well together! lookin at snipersystems they look decent and good reviews about them! heres a link can get it for less on ebay for around 40 or 50 say it would be worth it!

http://www.globalrifle.co.uk/snipersystems-mark-vi-tilting-bipod-7-p.asp

slug gun · 23-03-2013 2:19pm

extremetaz wrote: »

Would have thought potentially more of a Bell ringing rifle.

Would make a cracking bell target rifle! But image trying to explain concept of shooting old airguns in the back of the pub whilst enjoying a pint to your Super or the Range Inspector!!:D:D:D:D:D

1shot16,

I've not had much luck shooting a springer off a rest or bipod...where would you even put it on a '97 being an underlever. I find shooting them with the slightest hold gives best results. The following link might be hehpful when shooting a spring gun.

http://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_artillery_hold_June_2009/63

ATB
Slug

1shot16 · 23-03-2013 7:23pm

slug gun wrote: »

I've not had much luck shooting a springer off a rest or bipod...where would you even put it on a '97 being an underlever. I find shooting them with the slightest hold gives best results. The following link might be hehpful when shooting a spring gun.

Here a hw97k with a harris bipod...i might get one will be handy in the future!

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Air-Rifles/Weihrauch-HW-97-K-gun-for-sale-gs58782.aspx

1shot16 · 24-03-2013 1:19am

Need a little help im 16 and a bit stuck on my license have landowners just a few little things heres the forums:

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA1%202012%20.pdf

Im getting a weihrauch hw97k .22 for hunting and vermin control i need help on section 2.5- Proof of Competence - in Possession, Use and Carriage of Firearm ( If this is a first time application, please provide proof of your competence in the possession, use and carriage of firearms) have no idea what it is or what to say.

and also section 4.2 Reason why this Type of Firearm is required.(This firearm will be used for: (Tick √ appropriate box(es)) (M)
Hunting Target shooting at Authorised Range Other (Specify, e.g. Clay Pigeon, Vermin Control, etc)
Please explain, on a Separate Sheet, why this specific type of firearm is required.)

All help much appreciated!

Witcher · 24-03-2013 1:24am

1shot16 wrote: »

Need a little help im 16 and a bit stuck on my license have landowners just a few little things heres the forums:

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA1%202012%20.pdf

Im getting a weihrauch hw97k .22 for hunting and vermin control i need help on section 2.5- Proof of Competence - in Possession, Use and Carriage of Firearm ( If this is a first time application, please provide proof of your competence in the possession, use and carriage of firearms) have no idea what it is or what to say.

and also section 4.2 Reason why this Type of Firearm is required.(This firearm will be used for: (Tick √ appropriate box(es)) (M)
Hunting Target shooting at Authorised Range Other (Specify, e.g. Clay Pigeon, Vermin Control, etc)
Please explain, on a Separate Sheet, why this specific type of firearm is required.)

All help much appreciated!

Have you done your safety/competency course? If you have then include proof in section 2.5.

For Section 4.2; I presume you'll be shooting rabbits with the air rifle, so tick other and write out a note stating you want the rifle to shoot rabbits.

1shot16 · 24-03-2013 1:29am

Blay wrote: »

Have you done your safety/competency course? If you have then include proof in section 2.5.

For Section 4.2; I presume you'll be shooting rabbits with the air rifle, so tick other and write out a note stating you want the rifle to shoot rabbits.

Done it

Ill get a photocopy and send it in!

For 4.2 its say you is this specific type of firearm is required...why are they asking me this bit too much i think!Its for rabbits and rats ill say i suppose

You can also shoot rats..but not birds with a rifle ive been told!

Cass · 24-03-2013 2:28am

For future reference don't post the same thing over multiple threads. It confuses the matter and only has repeating posts in numerous threads.

As for them asking for the info as a "bit much". Gun ownership is a privilege, not an entitlement. So if you want it answer what you are asked. I've seen many lads with the "i'm not telling them that" or my favorite "tell them as little as possible" attitude who now have no gun whereas a simply answer would have avoided it.

1shot16 · 24-03-2013 2:51am

Cass wrote: »

As for them asking for the info as a "bit much". Gun ownership is a privilege, not an entitlement. So if you want it answer what you are asked. I've seen many lads with the "i'm not telling them that" or my favorite "tell them as little as possible" attitude who now have no gun whereas a simply answer would have avoided it.

Any advice on what to say its manly for hunting and vermin control

I mean here they ask u everything in america u can walk out with of a gun shop with handguns,rifles and shotguns....id rather it be strict though too many gun related deaths there and i think most people will agree

amjc1974 · 24-03-2013 2:02pm

slug gun wrote: »

Yes, I believe a mass produced factory spring piston air rifle can benefit from a tune…this doesn’t necessarily mean trying to squeeze every last drop of power from it though!

Here’s a list of considerations,
Polishing and deburring all tool marks/sharp edges from internal parts
Reassembling with higher quality lubes/tar in the right places!
Swapping out the original factory spring, spring guide, piston washer etc with upgraded custom parts
Looking at the static compression ratio, with a view to modifying the swept volume and transfer port dimensions.

I’ve just finished working on a 1966 Weihrauch HW55T, that needed some TLC. Here’s basically what I did:

Stripped and degreased all internal parts and polished cocking slot and cocking shoe.
Fitted a new spring, leather washer and Delrin guide. See first pic as to sorry state of original spring & washer.
Installed “buttons” (small discs) on the rear skirt of the piston to remove metal to metal contact, during cocking and firing.
Applied new moly grease and tar on piston and spring.
Rebuilt trigger mechanism after relubing with light machine oil. Trigger unit had nearly seized with old grease drying out and hardening.

http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/SLUG22/library/HW55T?page=1

Slug

Sounds like you would need a degree in engineering to tune a springer lol...that looks like a really nice rifle though

murph226 · 24-03-2013 10:49pm

My new .22 Hw100KT is finally in the Dealers, whats the turn around like these days for licenses?
I've had a fullbore rifle and pistol before so there shouldn't be any hassle at my end.

I have a 6-24x56 Hawke sidewinder ready to be fitted with some high mounts.

I'm also looking for a diving cylinder for it ( Have access to a diving compressor ) and I need some ammo too, any recommendations?

Is there anything else I am missing that I might need?

1shot16 · 24-03-2013 11:08pm

murph226 wrote: »

I need some ammo too, any recommendations

JSB Match Diabolo are the way to go!Them fancy pointed tips and other ones arent as accurate as the jsb exact!

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/160820413125?var=460078318646&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_711wt_1037

extremetaz · 25-03-2013 12:10pm

1shot16 wrote: »

Would it be worth putting a bipod on my hw97k .22 heard bipods and springers dont go well together!

Nope - bipods won't work with a springer. In fact resting them on anything but your hand won't work. They need that "intuitive damper" that is your slightly grip in order to stay on target until the round leaves the barrel.

slug gun wrote: »

Would make a cracking bell target rifle! But image trying to explain concept of shooting old airguns in the back of the pub whilst enjoying a pint to your Super or the Range Inspector!!:D:D:D:D:D

Tis gas to think of where were at now from where we were. Bell shooting wasn't banned on any sort of safety grounds either - it was the church! Competitions were regularly scheduled on Sundays and so they kept people out of mass. :rolleyes:

1shot16 wrote: »

Any advice on what to say its manly for hunting and vermin control

Just answer the questions honestly - if you need it for pest control then you'll have ground to use it on and a letter stating the same. If your need is target related then you'll be in a club and will have a proof of membership to show with it.

Everything else is just yes, no and sign here.

murph226 wrote: »

My new .22 Hw100KT is finally in the Dealers, whats the turn around like these days for licenses?
I've had a fullbore rifle and pistol before so there shouldn't be any hassle at my end.

I have a 6-24x56 Hawke sidewinder ready to be fitted with some high mounts.

I'm also looking for a diving cylinder for it ( Have access to a diving compressor ) and I need some ammo too, any recommendations?

Is there anything else I am missing that I might need?

Nope, that's pretty much the lot of it.
Sidewinder is a good choice of scope.
The 'k' models are a beautiful field rifle and are accurate to a 1c coin every time out to ~35m.

As for ammo - you can't go wrong eith the JSB Exact range, similarly Crossmann Premier, H&N, RWS, Beeman... I'm forgetting a few others but the trick is to go for the match grade stuff every time and stick with diabolo's (round headed pellets). Although having said that, Crossman do a Hollow point in the premier range which is excellent in the 22KT.

murph226 · 25-03-2013 4:50pm

Thanks for the info, wheres the best and cheapest place to get ammo?

Does the barrel ever need to be cleaned, if so what should I use, is there anywhere else on the gun that needs attention or oil?

extremetaz · 25-03-2013 6:11pm

Don't go for the cheap ammo - expect to pay €14~€18 a tin for 500 pellets.
Intershoot are very good, failing that, talk to your locals but the supply here isn't great to be honest.

As for the barrel, different people will tell you different things, but I'd be inclined to give it a good cleaning when you get it, and after that as long as it's shooting straigh, leave it alone - but that's just my opinion, others will tell you to clean after every few hundred... it's all down to personal taste really. In my experience, with air rifles, regular cleaning is not all that necessary though.

The rest of the rifle though will benefit from a light rub down with a slightly oily rag before you put it away after use. The thin film of oil will help keep any water off the metal bits and will prevent handling wear on the blueing.

murph226 · 26-03-2013 1:20am

Whats the 5.51 and 5.52 about with the pellets, which ones do I need or is it trial and error?

extremetaz · 26-03-2013 10:27am

Trial & error - it's the pellet headsize.

Some rifles prefer a tighter pellet fit than others.
In my experience, the 5.51's work best in the '22kt - but that's only based on the use of 1 example of the rifle so it's important to do your own testing.

There's a crowd called pellet perfect in the UK who sell sample packs of pellets for exactly this purpose.

1shot16 · 28-03-2013 12:53pm

Just found this now http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0038/sec0041.html#sec41

(2) It shall be an offence for a person to hunt or injure any wild bird or wild animal with a spring gun.

does this include a spring air rifle!?

extremetaz · 28-03-2013 4:16pm

1shot16 wrote: »

Just found this now http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0038/sec0041.html#sec41

(2) It shall be an offence for a person to hunt or injure any wild bird or wild animal with a spring gun.

does this include a spring air rifle!?

Yes, but it's illegal to hunt any wild bird or any wild animal outside of the derogations anyway.

Furthermore, I'm reasonably certain that the "vermin" classification overrides both of the above (rats, rabbits, magpies, etc... ).

However - it *IS* outright illegal to shoot "game" with an air rifle (..and potentially *any* rifle in the case of game birds - although I'm happy to be corrected on that).

murph226 · 28-03-2013 7:39pm

Is there any good online shops that will ship to Ireland, all the ebay shops are pretty crap!

1shot16 · 28-03-2013 10:47pm

murph226 wrote: »

Is there any good online shops that will ship to Ireland, all the ebay shops are pretty crap!

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/160820413125?var=460078318646&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_711wt_1037

Try this shop buy 2-4 tins to get the best value!

murph226 · 28-03-2013 11:10pm

Will they combine postage if I buy that many?

FOXHUNTER1 · 28-03-2013 11:34pm

1shot16 wrote: »

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/160820413125?var=460078318646&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_711wt_1037

Try this shop buy 2-4 tins to get the best value!

Don't forget that you will need an import license to legally bring these into the country as they are considered ammunition in Irish law.

murph226 · 28-03-2013 11:49pm

I should have known there'd be some stupid law about importing them, thanks for the heads up!

1shot16 · 29-03-2013 12:03am

murph226 wrote: »

Will they combine postage if I buy that many?

Ye its 2.99 for every additional tin...the laws r silly i might chance a tin or two!Contact the seller and see what he say...get him to say gift on the packag might slip through customs!

1shot16 · 29-03-2013 12:07am

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

Don't forget that you will need an import license to legally bring these into the country as they are considered ammunition in Irish law.

Does sling shot ammo count metal ones!Also how about BB's?

slug gun · 29-03-2013 8:21am

1shot16 wrote: »

Ye its 2.99 for every additional tin...the laws r silly i might chance a tin or two!Contact the seller and see what he say...get him to say gift on the packag might slip through customs!

I wouldn't "chance" any "silly" laws- they are Laws like it or not. An Import document is a single page that's free of charge, and keeps you on the right side.

1shot16 · 29-03-2013 12:33pm

slug gun wrote: »

I wouldn't "chance" any "silly" laws- they are Laws like it or not. An Import document is a single page that's free of charge, and keeps you on the right side.

Its free thats a surprise!How can i acquire one?

murph226 · 02-02-2014 10:18pm

After what feels like an absolute age, I've been told my license is finally on the way!

I have some JSB Exact Jumbo .22 pellets in 5.51 and 5.52 for starters, must start gathering some more for testing when it arrives.

Have to pick up a pump and/or an dive cylinder too, I have access to a diving air compressor so I probably won't bother with the pump, any recommendations?

slug gun · 03-02-2014 9:13am

Good News! Remind me, what did you go for in the end?

Slug

murph226 · 03-02-2014 9:28am

slug gun wrote: »

Good News! Remind me, what did you go for in the end?

Slug

Went for a Weirauch HW100KT in .22 with a Hawke sidewinder 6-24x56

slug gun · 03-02-2014 9:43am

An excellent choice! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun with it!

ATB

Slug

murph226 · 03-02-2014 9:56am

slug gun wrote: »

An excellent choice! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun with it!

ATB

Slug

Cheers, yeah I can't wait to finally get it, I'm away working for the month so hopefully it will be there when I get home!

Cass · 03-02-2014 12:42pm

Nearly a year?

that;s some wait for an air rifle. Suppose at least it's over, but still.

Best of luck with it.

cw67irl · 03-02-2014 1:19pm

What did it cost you murph do you mind me asking??? I was big into the Air rifles when the HW100 came up out but never bought one in the end!! Still have the temptation for one!!

Backfire · 04-02-2014 11:58am

cw67irl wrote: »

What did it cost you murph do you mind me asking??? I was big into the Air rifles when the HW100 came up out but never bought one in the end!! Still have the temptation for one!!

I have a springer (hw97k) and i love it dearly but i have always wanted a PCP too, and the hw100k sporter stock is my favourite. Maybe some day....;)

Let us know how the rifle is when you get it. What power rating will it have? 12ft/lbs?

murph226 · 05-02-2014 7:55pm

Thanks lads, its been a long wait alright, just glad that its finally getting sorted!

I prefer the look of the sporter stock myself but function over form for me on this one and I think the pistol grip is more comfortable and practical.

Its the FAC version which I think they are 25 ft-lbs.

1shot16 · 07-02-2014 12:09am

Backfire wrote: »

I have a springer (hw97k) and i love it dearly but i have always wanted a PCP too, and the hw100k sporter stock is my favourite. Maybe some day....;)

Let us know how the rifle is when you get it. What power rating will it have? 12ft/lbs?

Also have a hw97k in .22 love it to bits

Backfire · 08-02-2014 10:42am

1shot16 wrote: »

Also have a hw97k in .22 love it to bits

Mine is a .22 too

1shot16 · 08-02-2014 1:00pm

Mine has a nice few accessories too

Backfire · 09-02-2014 12:53pm

1shot16 wrote: »

Mine has a nice few accessories too

Very nice indeed mate

I dont have a sling or bipod on mine, its the mark II which is the same as yours. The Mark I had its barrell longer than the underlever and thus not a carbine and called the hw97. The new hw97k rifles have a different style to the stock, dont know if there is any other changes. I think our model is the nicest

Albeit the weight is an issue and i can see the benefit of a bipod.

I have a sling and bipod on a cz 455 .22LR rifle alright and the bipod is a massive comfort for accurate shooting.

1shot16 · 09-02-2014 1:00pm

Backfire wrote: »

Very nice indeed mate

I dont have a sling or bipod on mine, its the mark II which is the same as yours. The Mark I had its barrell longer than the underlever and thus not a carbine and called the hw97. The new hw97k rifles have a different style to the stock, dont know if there is any other changes. I think our model is the nicest

Albeit the weight is an issue and i can see the benefit of a bipod.

I have a sling and bipod on a cz 455 .22LR rifle alright and the bipod is a massive comfort for accurate shooting.

Most springers dont shot well of bipods but its grand for a bit of plinking at close range.Small bit weighty but other than that i love it.Wanted a HW97K when i was 15 nd when i turned 16 straight to the dealers where i picked her up

Shes a keeper :P

murph226 · 09-02-2014 4:54pm

Does anyone know where I can pick up a good quality 300bar surface use cylinder for my new air rifle?

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