Limerick Traveller Family story in Irish Times

The boy who says he’s Tommy declares “We don’t want to live on an estate. We want to keep away from everyone. We want somewhere a bit out the country. And we want half an acre for our dogs and horses.”

cheeky fcukers, pay taxes if you want to live where you want like the rest of us do. lol at the "we live in a dump" comment, like it was like that when they moved in?

If they want houses let them buy some houses. They wouldn't be the first or last travellers to either own homes or want to buy homes or want the council to buy them homes.

Frankly the welfare system of this country is not designed to help people who do not want to contribute, it was designed for people who cannot contribute and/or afford their own home.

To be all politically correct about it. If you want a house then let them be "means tested" for it. If they pass then join the back of the queue and if they don't qualify then it is not beause they are a traveller. It is because they simply don't qualify.

Kristopherus wrote: »

Wtf do you mean by that coimparision?

Somebody called Travellers an ethnic minority, they're not.* I'm pointing out that Mayo Hurlers have as much right to call themselves an ethnic minority as Travellers do.

*This is not a slur on Travellers, many travellers themselves don't consider themselves an ethnic minority.

For the record (and clarity) I'm using the Collins English Dictionary definition of ethnic minority:

ethnic minority

an immigrant or racial group regarded by those claiming to speak for the cultural majority as distinct and unassimilated

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Travellers are genetically distinct with their own culture and language. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't get ethnically distinct status.

Could you elaborate how travellers are genetically distinct ?

Brennans Row wrote: »

Images from article






I think that was a pretty cheap shot to degrade these people like that with such derogatory remarks.

You certainly don’t display an appreciation for good journalism.

The Casey women folk should be commended for accepting the Irish Times reporter into their homes, especially as they left themselves very vulnerable to all sorts of verbal abuse (see above).

These Irish Times articles on travellers are really helpful and hopefully they might help change some peoples’ mind-sets into seeing travellers as fellow human beings too.

Last Saturday’s article “Travellers on Travellers” was an amazing read too.

I find myself both agreeing with you and strongly disagreeing with you.

Mainly because I see Travellers simply as people, and as people they are made up of the same types as any other group in society. There are good ones, bad ones, happy one, contrary ones and so on.

When it comes to Travellers in Limerick with the Casey surname, I can think of examples that I personally know that I would regard as top notch people, and I can think of a few whose actions have me regarding them as vile excuses for people.

As with a lot of topics that attract heated debate, I think the subject of travellers too often attracts extremes of opinion, and the middle ground (where the truth often lies) tends to be ignored and not explored.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Their high prevalence is caused by inbreeding.

.

Yes it does.



irish parents who didn't mix with other irish people



yes it is



Perhaps you don't understand the difference between ethnicity, nationality and citizenship. Perhaps you might look them up in a dictionary.



so nothing to do with ethnicity at all

You say I should pick up a dictionary. Maybe you can do something similar and read up on the differences between true genetic distinctions, and genetic disorders involving recessive genes. There is a difference between the two that is recognised scientifically, as recessive genes is a term that actually does not mean the genes are recessive but that the phenotype.

So if you are claiming that Travellers are genetically distinct thanks to inbreeding, then you are saying they are different due to recessive phenotypes and not recessive genes. Technically there is a difference despite it being causually thrown about that they are genetically distinct due to inbreeding.


You also made a comment about me not undertanding the difference between ethnicity, nationality and citizenship. I understand the difference quite well thank you. Having lived in a number of countries and getting citizenship in four of them, I would hope that I know the difference by now.:) The comment I made which provoked that response from you I still stand over though, and if you disagree with it I would be interested in hearing you break it down into reasons why you disagree.

The comment I made was

If any travellers avail of the same social services available to any other Irish person, then they should be seen in the same manner as any other Irish citizen and afforded the same rights and be expected to live by the same laws.

Granted I could have made it more detail specific, but the general point that I was making was, to my mind, a pretty obvious one, and certainly a fairly neutral point in that it was not anti or pro traveller in content.

If you do think I am saying something that you deem to be anti traveller, please point it out and debate it with me, but I looked back through my posts in this thread and I see nothing that could suggest that my posts are anti traveller in any way.

The main issue here is that they're saying that they shouldn't have to live in a dump.....None of these halting sites have been handed over to the travellers in the state they're currently in.

The halting sites are the way they are through neglect on the part of the tenants.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

There are social barriers to interbreeding between Travellers and non-Travellers. Travellers almost exclusively reproduce within their own numbers. Within a number of generations, this activity will make you genetically distinguishable from non-Travellers by testing for specific genetic markers. One method of demonstrating Travellers' genetic distinction is there increased prevalence of recessive traits such as Galactosemia. All Irish travellers with Galactosemia have the Q188R allele on the 9p13. Irish travellers who don't have Galactosemia, who aren't homozygous for this gene, may be heterozygous. The phenotype doesn't matter, I don't know why you made that erroneous assumption or incorrectly inferred this is what I believe. The important criteria for genetic distinction is increased prevalence of rare genes.

Are am I right in assuming you consider Irish people a separate ethnic group. Separate culture, language, shared genetic and geographical ancestry. Irish people aren't just British people who live on an island and inbred, they're not just white European. It's a separate ethnicity in my definition.

Following on from this line of reasoning, Irish Travellers have their own culture, language, shared ancestry and originally come from the same geographical region, despite, their spread across UK and America.



I don't see any point here. We were discussing ethnicity, specifically, genetic arguments for ethnicity and then you start pontificating about social services and taxation. People born here to Nigerian parents 'can avail of the same social services, treated in the same manner as an Irish citizen and afforded the same rights to live by'. This doesn't make any difference to their ethnicity, which I wouldn't describe as Irish or White Irish as they're ethnically Nigerian (West-African) but are Irish in terms of nationality/citizenry*.

My argument is Travellers are a separate ethnic group, you questioned my reasoning, I explained my reasoning, and then you brought in this topic. That lead to me thinking you actually don't understand the argument.

The thread is not just about ethnicity, and I was not speaking about ethnicity when I made my point. You are the one who keeps bringing ethnicity into it.

As for travellers being a seperate ethnic group, well I respect your opinion in that you see them as one, but I do not see them as one and as such am not trying to discuss them as being one.

You seem to be the only person who is claiming the discussion in the thread is just about ethnicity. It smacks of a person who wants to drag a conversation in one direction only and to strawman as much as possible.

Oh by the way the phenotype does matter when it comes to inbreeding, but I am sure you can find that info in the same place that you took your other info from.


I have posted in this thread based on the article in the first post, and given my own opinion on travellers in general as well as travellers of one surname. You can claim that they are an ethnic group if you like, I see them as no such thing and find the claim to be laughable whenever I hear it. But I guess the claims of being a seperate ethnic group has been shown to be a handy way for some sections of the travelluing community to avoid accepting responsibity for certain social issues and criminal issues, and get trotted out time and time again to suit arguements.

I think I have been pretty clear in this thread in how I generally see travellers, and tend only to refer to them as travellers in threads like this because in day to day life I simply see them as people and not some tag or title, and certainly not a ethnic group.


As for you assuming I see the Irish as a totally seperate enthnic group for the reasons you gave/assumed, well I don't see the Irish as a totally seperate ethnic group but rather as one that shares many of it's ethnic traits with a number of other groups, and as such is more of a sub group than a truly individual group.

Genetically I would not certainly not have thought of the British in terms of the Irish and ethnicity. My mind would have gone to the Basque Country.

In terms of shared language and to a large degree culture the British comparison would be more valid alright imho as trying to use the Irish language at this point as some kind of proof of a seperate language that helps define a seperate ethnicity is a weak arguement at best given that the vast majority of Irish have little to no real fluency in the language and it does not even rank in the top three languages on the island in terms of how frequently it is spoken.

Is that Willie Casey's family?

Wasnt that halting site refurbished lately (as in the last year or so?)

flutered wrote: »

a line from the story the irish traveller movement was founded in 1990 it has a network of more than 80 different organisations and individuals ?????. in other words a quango, has any one a rough estimate on how much the country is spending on these people.

This is a question that really needs to be asked... and answered.

Ridiculous money is spent on Trevellers on housing alone, Irish society cannot afford it anymore.

What % of Travellers are employed? Probably a very small amount and prejudice would be a massive reason why folk won't take them on.

What % of Travellers file annual tax returns? Close to 0% I'd say.

Travellers need to start contributing to society because at the moment they don't.