Irish Soldiers who deserted during WWII to join the British Army & Starvation order

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Tell me, I wonder if the author of this book might know a thing or two about Ireland and WWI

“Mr. O’Leary, senior, father of the famous V.C., speaking in the Inchigeela district, urged the young men to join the British army. ‘If you don’t’, he told them, ‘the Germans will come here and will do to you what the English have been doing for the last seven hundred years’.” (excerpted from Frank Gallagher's Four Glorious Years, 1953. He wrote under the pen name David Hogan.)

Fuinseog wrote: »

Churchill was a warmonger who loved nothing better than a scrap. There is a reason why his own people got rid of him at the end of the war. nobody wanted another one.

we should also recognise the part Irish people played in Frances's and America's wars. Irishmen who served in British armed forces do not like to be placed on the same level as the French Foreign Legion.
with Irishmen in the American armed forces it is also a little awkward although fighting weapons of mass destruction sounds a lot like freedom of small nations and also some the cause they pursued were less than noble . I believe it was Grant who said 'the only good Indian is a dead Indian'. I am sure thousands of Irish soldiers fought the evils of communisim in Vietnam. let them be remembered.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, he does not state that 60% were pro Nazi, you are putting words in his mouth.

I don't know Gerard Morgan, bit I would hazard a guess and say that a senior lecturer at Trinity is no fool, so trying to belittle him is a bit pointless.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

He said 60% hoped for, or expected a German victory.

How any people would it need to start a civil war, because that was the fear if Ireland threw its lot in with Britain, 25%? So we can presume that 25% wanted a German victory.

How many expected a German victory (after Dunkirk, a lot both sides of the Irish sea I would say) maybe another 25%?

His Estimate of 60% may not be that wild.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It would have cost the British dearly.....in used notes of mixed currency stuffed into suitcases.

How many expected a German victory (after Dunkirk, a lot both sides of the Irish sea I would say) maybe another 25%?

Mosley's Irish pile on the market

• Illeclash House
• 
  
  
  
  
  
  BRIAN O'CONNELL and UNA MULLALLY
  SMALL PRINT: LIKES BUSES, you wait years for a house with a fascist past to come up for sale and then three arrive together.
  With a Nazi safe house currently for sale in Dublin and the former home of Nazi war criminal Pieter Menten on offer in Waterford, it’s fitting that a house in Cork with links to one of the most famous British fascists of all, Sir Oswald Mosley, is currently on the market.
  Ileclash House, on the River Blackwater near Fermoy, was where Mosley, the former leader of the British Union of Fascists, lived for a time with his second wife Diana, who was one of the famous Mitford sisters. The couple had married in secret in Germany in 1936, at the home of Nazi propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels. Hitler was among their wedding guests.
  When they first moved to Ireland they lived in a bishop’s palace in Galway, but it burned down shortly after they moved in. They bought Ileclash House as a summer residence sometime in the 1950s. The house is considered one of the jewels of the Blackwater Valley, with a mid-Georgian five-bay two-storey front and views over the surrounding countryside and rivers.
  The owners of the property declined to be interviewed about the property’s past, as did the estate agents handling the sale, Michael H Daniels. The property brochure, however, does take account of the Mosley link, by stating: “The house was restored and later purchased by the British political activist, Sir Oswald Mosley, who lived here with his second wife and society beauty, Diana Mitford who fell from grace on her marriage to him.”
  Included in the property are five reception rooms, six bedrooms, library, gym, studios, walled gardens and terraced lawns. The price is currently on application, but when the house was for sale in 2008, a figure of €4.25 million was quoted.
  
  
  http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0506/1224296260453.html

Gerwin Strobl's elegant, imaginative, and methodologically innovative book demonstrates that there is still a great deal to explore, especially in terms of Nazi perceptions of the "other," and in the case of Great Britain, an "other" that was regarded with approval and even envy by the Nazi leadership and the German people alike. The Germanic Isle is an excellent example of the potential of fresh cultural approaches being applied to political and diplomatic history and to the often over-earnest field of international relations.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3686/is_3_37/ai_n28971024/

A.Tomas wrote: »

Just one correction because it comes up sometimes, it was always FF policy to wait for re-unification before leaving the British commonwealth.

getz wrote: »

the german could not even get enough boats and troops together to cross the english channel never mind trying a landing in ireland,the german bomber that hit dublin said 10 years ago it was a accident,but anyone knows that all british cities had a black out at night,ireland [dublin] only had a partial blackout ,so it was obvious it was not a british city,they even bombed ireland in daylight hrs

Irish government promises action on WWII deserters

The then Taoiseach, Eamon de Valera, inspects his country's neutral army


The Irish government is to take action over the soldiers who were punished for fighting with the British during World War II, the BBC understands.
Ireland was neutral during the conflict, but around 10% of its armed forces deserted to join the fight against fascism.
On their return many were placed on an official blacklist, banning them from getting jobs, benefits or pensions.
There has been growing pressure on Dublin to issue the men with a pardon.
Now Senator Mary Ann O'Brien says Ireland's minister of justice, Alan Shatter, is actively working on the matter.
She said: "I'm glad to say that it is very much foremost on his agenda and he said that we will hear from him at the end of the first quarter of 2012."
Around 5,000 soldiers were formally dismissed from the Irish army for serving with the British.
"Starvation order" They were stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.
John Stout fought in the Battle of the Bulge but was treated as a pariah back home in Cork.
Many also had their children taken into care.
John Stout served with the Irish Guards armoured division which raced to Arnhem to capture a key bridge.
He also fought in the Battle of the Bulge, ending the war as a commando.
On his return home to Cork, however, he says he was treated as a pariah.
"What they did to us was wrong," he says.
"I know that in my heart. They cold-shouldered you. They didn't speak to you.
"A lot of Irish people wanted Germany to win the war - they were dead up against the British."
A special "list" was drawn up containing their names and addresses, and circulated to every government department, town hall and railway station - anywhere the men might look for a job.
It was referred to in the Irish parliament - the Dail - at the time as a "starvation order".
Senator O'Brien described the list as a stain on the nation's history.
She said: "I just think it would be such a wonderful gift to those people and it's such a small gift to make sure that they're properly pardoned and recognised for what they did."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16387821