UTMB 2014

DogSlySmile · 09-02-2014 10:04pm

Thanks a lot, great info there. Looks like 10-12L is the size I'm after so. I Suppose the only advantage of the UD pack would be the bungee cord for carrying a few extra bits. But I like the way everything is reachable in the Salomon bag and you won't need to take it off mid run. That's a big plus.

Thanks for the offer of a meet up. I'm out in the Dublin mountains most weekends and was going to put a post up here to see if a few of the lads heading over for the race wanted to get together for a run sometime. I'll be in touch.

nerraw1111 · 09-02-2014 10:55pm

There's a inov8 race vest which apparently will hold the UTMB race kit. http://iancorless.org/2013/10/11/inov-8-race-ultra-packvest-review/

Hard to find independent reviews of the race vests.

DogSlySmile · 10-02-2014 12:12pm

If I had one issue, it would be for longer races when high demands on mandatory kit are required. Unless you have the latest up to date smallest and lightest products, you will struggle to fit everything in this pack.

Hmm, looks like you'll need high-spec gear for this bag. I am always updating my gear but maybe I'd be better off going with a slightly larger bag just to be sure I can fit everything in.

grahamor · 10-02-2014 12:55pm

I used an OMM ultra 15 pack last year and found it great. Cost about £50

There's an add on you can attach that lets you compress the pack if needed (to prevent bouncing) and pack poles on the outside. There's a hook inside for a bladder and handy waist pockets.

omm-ultra15-aw11-med.jpg?w=125&h=125&a=7

omm-ultra15-aw11-med.jpg?w=125&h=125&a=7

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PaulieC · 10-02-2014 12:59pm

There's a sale on Deuter bags at the moment on Sports Pursuit might be worth a look

nerraw1111 · 10-02-2014 5:11pm

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Hmm, looks like you'll need high-spec gear for this bag. I am always updating my gear but maybe I'd be better off going with a slightly larger bag just to be sure I can fit everything in.

Yeah good points. And if it's a bad year, you might want to pack a bit more than the bare bones. Looking at my bags/race vests myself and it's a minefield!

Enduro · 10-02-2014 6:34pm

Last year's IMRA bag would also be very good (The Innov8 25L one). Plenty of room with that, and can be compressed down to stop it wobbling about. Great pocket access too. All it really missing is the front bottle holders (Which can be bought as extras, I think).

Last year I found it very tight with the salomon bag. I was glad I rarely had to access it. And I had the absolute minimum gear. The Innov8 15 litre bag is what I used the previous two years, and it was definitely good enough. Space wise this was just about right.

Most people seem to splash the cash, copy Killian, and buy the top of the line saloman bag. I love the front bottle holders on the saloman. They are definitely a super feature, and balance the weight nicely. Bloody expensive bags though.

Whatever you do, try it all out long beforehand in training, and practice everything in race configuration. On the plus side, if you do get it wrong before the race you can buy pretty much everything in Chamonix beforehand.

I only put the walking sticks in the bag until the first climb. After that they were used or hand carried all the way. You could waste away a lot of time and mental energy unpacking and repacking them in and out. not worth it, IMHO, which means you don't really have to worry about attaching them to the bag. Making sure you can work your dynamic hydration and nutrition whilst holding the poles is then the issue. Easily done, just practice it beforehand to be sure!

Whilst I think of it, a number belt is handy to have, so that you don't have to worry about attaching it to clothes/bag.

mithril · 10-02-2014 10:46pm

I picked up the OMM ultra 15 pack in Snow and Rock Dundrum for about 65 Euro and tried it out along the WW starting from Curtlestown car park yesterday for about 3 hours.

I think its a decent option.
I managed to pack the full gear list inside the pack - including collapsible poles - with room to spare, and it was very stable.

Water reservoir did not seem that accessible and the routing does not seem great if you are fitting the hose under your arm. I will probably use bottles though.

Maybe a bit more space than you actually need particularly since I am planning to supplement it with a waist pack to distribute some of the weight a bit lower and to reduce the number of times I have to take the main pack off.

What are people planning to use for a phone? The battery of a modern smartphone will be challenged to last for the full UTMB and maybe not even the CCC? Might pick up a very basic model which will have a long battery life and swap the sim?

grahamor · 11-02-2014 12:00pm

mithril wrote: »

What are people planning to use for a phone? The battery of a modern smartphone will be challenged to last for the full UTMB and maybe not even the CCC? Might pick up a very basic model which will have a long battery life and swap the sim?

I brought my iPhone but only turned on at the aid stations. My girlfriend was receiving an SMS everytime i passed through a checkpoint.

Not worth turning your phone on up in the mountains as very little chance of getting reception. I bought a cheap MP3 player for music instead of having to rely on the phone. Nice to have some sounds when you are climbing up a mountain in the dark and all you can hear is poles hitting together and people gasping for air

Enduro · 11-02-2014 12:13pm

Actually it is very important to have your phone on all the time. The race are very good at using SMS messages for communicating information to runners. In the previous 2 years that's how we found out about course changes, including a course change that was enacted mid-race. There were no changes last year, so there were no mid-race messages. A light cheapy phone is ideal.

nerraw1111 · 11-02-2014 12:38pm

Yeah there was uproar in 2011 when the course was changed mid-race. Texts were sent detailing the new route. I think it was an extra climb of 3600 feet.

I've the Nokia 100. €30 or so. Battery lasts for almost a week. V light too.

Enduro · 11-02-2014 3:05pm

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Yeah there was uproar in 2011 when the course was changed mid-race. Texts were sent detailing the new route. I think it was an extra climb of 3600 feet.

I've the Nokia 100. €30 or so. Battery lasts for almost a week. V light too.

Yeah that's about perfect!

There was actually no sign of any uproar out on the course in 2011. Everyone seemed perfectly fine with the decsions, and coped without problem. It was only afterwards reading the reports of one or two of the American runners that I realised that they had issues. I still think that the race organisers handled everything very well indeed.

DogSlySmile · 12-02-2014 11:06am

UTMB will require 8 points next year, CCC/TDS will require 3 points.

http://www.ultratrailmb.com/page/224/2015_Enrolment.html

Important fact: the rise in the number of required points (from 7 to 8 for the UTMB® and from 2 to 3 for the CCC® and TDS®) is a temporary measure. As from registration for 2016 the organisation envisages the setting up of qualification criteria which include minimum experience in a mountain environment. More complete information will be available as from April 2014.

It will be interesting to see how they set the criteria for experience in a mountain environment. Also will running CCC/TDS give you more points (for 2015) this year than in previous years.

Mebuccaneers · 16-02-2014 10:38pm

I'm just wondering how everyone is getting on with their training for their UTMB race. I would love to know what other peoples average training week looks like, as in how much training you do, the type of training you do, about your recovery. And anything else you think helps you in your training.
I have to admit that I don't really follow a set weekly programme, I just normally train by how I feel and whether I have any niggles or injuries.
Really what I think I am looking for is to see if there is a difference (and there probably is!) between my own training and how other people are training.
And mostly to see how much I need to step up my training..

Any advice, comments, criticisms are all welcome.

SureWhyNot! · 16-02-2014 11:49pm

Mebuccaneers wrote: »

I'm just wondering how everyone is getting on with their training for their UTMB race...Any advice, comments, criticisms are all welcome.

Do you have a training diary... it is likely to be followed by people with similar interests. Maybe a Strava account? IMRA and Boards have groups.

How much running/hiking are you doing? Do you have any build up races or sessions planned? Mourne Way Ultra? Alps trips? Maumturks walk? 12 Bens? WW ultra? Do you do any hiking or running with poles?

DogSlySmile · 20-04-2014 11:36am

Based on the recommendations here I got a pair of poles and used them for the first time yesterday on a long run on the Wicklow Way.

There werent too many climbs where I had to slow to a hike so I used the poles on the climbs while running. I noticed that the poles helped me to scoot up the climb a little quicker than without poles but my breathing rate rapidly increased and my heart rate shot up as I was using my arms as well as my legs to climb. Because I was using so much energy by 20 miles I was knackered and still had 20+ miles to run. By the end I was in such a state that I had to walk the slightest of climbs:eek:

I know there are many reasons that can explain a bad run but I'm pretty certain that using the poles for the first time was the cause of this one!

So in UTMB etc would you only use the poles on uphill sections that are so steep that you have to hike? Or would you use poles for most climbs?

Dunebuggy · 20-04-2014 11:55am

I used the poles on all up hills. Have you used them on regular climb on a fire road. A nice climb up tonlagee or similar should work. There was a climb where I didn't use them earlier as it was rocky technical.

I would say try them on lower gradient climbs to get used to them. Sounds like you were perhaps over relying on them to get you up the hill. I was similar at the beginning. Placing them too far ahead and pulling myself up on to them. If that makes sense. The length of them in accordance to the gradient needs some getting used to.

Good that u started early. They do work. Something we all agree on.

DogSlySmile · 20-04-2014 12:19pm

Dunebuggy wrote: »

I used the poles on all up hills. Have you used them on regular climb on a fire road. A nice climb up tonlagee or similar should work. There was a climb where I didn't use them earlier as it was rocky technical.

I would say try them on lower gradient climbs to get used to them. Sounds like you were perhaps over relying on them to get you up the hill. I was similar at the beginning. Placing them too far ahead and pulling myself up on to them. If that makes sense. The length of them in accordance to the gradient needs some getting used to.

Good that u started early. They do work. Something we all agree on.

Thats exactly what I was doing!:o I tried to fully extend my arms out in front to get the most pull with each go. OK, good to know. Also, I was extending both arms together to get the most pull. Would one arm at a time be more effective or is it an individual thing?

Dunebuggy · 20-04-2014 12:47pm

Yes, Left foot right arm, trying to keep arms at 90 Degrees. Adjusting the length if poles according my. Then yes kind of individual. Couple of videos on YouTube also if u need to look further.

DogSlySmile · 29-07-2014 10:28am

Not long to go now, just 4 weeks left! :eek:

How is the prep going for everyone?

I'm in for the CCC. I've been getting a good bit of practice in with the poles. Feeling improvements every time I use them so glad I got them early. Been putting a lot of work in on the downhills as well as I've heard plenty of reports that its the descents that will get ya whereas a lot of people focus mainly on the climbing in training.

grahamor · 29-07-2014 4:24pm

Really excited and cant believe it's less than 4 weeks until the TDS. Hoping the weather will be good like last year

Been mixing up training with cycling, squats, lunges etc. instead of just churning out loads of miles all the time.

The downhill training sounds great, will deffo pay off. Have you tried running with the full pack yet ?

Last year i attached my race bib to the waist strap on my pack. It was a pain to move it every time i toook my pack off. Better off with a race number holder that you can just move to the back when you need to fill up on supplies.

DogSlySmile · 29-07-2014 4:50pm

grahamor wrote: »

The downhill training sounds great, will deffo pay off. Have you tried running with the full pack yet ?

Last year i attached my race bib to the waist strap on my pack. It was a pain to move it every time i toook my pack off. Better off with a race number holder that you can just move to the back when you need to fill up on supplies.

Usually I cant be bothered filling my bag with all the mandatory kit so I just stick a couple of ankle weights in the bag before my weekend long runs. I carried all the mandatory kit for the first time during Stone Mad and found it a bit odd. The mandatory kit was lighter than the weights I'm used to so found the balance of weight was more to the front of the pack (water bottles) making me lean slightly and putting pressure on my back. So more practice needed there!

Good tip on the race number. I was going to pin it to my shorts. Did you stop at every aid station and stick a few supplies in your bag or did you carry much from the start?

grahamor · 29-07-2014 5:15pm

I personally wouldn't pin it to your shorts because you might have to change into long pants or waterproofs and it must be visible at all times. I stopped at all aid stations and filled up my reservoir (was a hot enough day). Coke, noodle soup, oranges and pie were consumed before heading off again. I also ate pasta at Champex and changed socks etc.

Didn't need many gels (4 in total) because of what i ate at the stations.The noodle soup is great stuff that goes down easy and provides some nice salt to prevent cramping. I found the coke to be a great gel alternative.

I've just been reading your training logs and am in awe! You must be targeting 17-18 hours for the CCC ?

DogSlySmile · 29-07-2014 9:01pm

Yea happy with how the training has gone but fighting off a niggle now. I've put in 6 good months of training so hoping to give it a good whack and get around as quickly as possible. A number of things have to fall into place for that to work, however. Its my first race in this kind of terrain so probably can't tell ya if 17-18hrs is realistic. Just looking forward to getting over there and doing it.

Enduro · 30-07-2014 11:43am

Exciting times

I used the number belt for the last 2 years. I think it works best alright, given that there is a reasonably high probability that you'll have to add/change layers. 3 years ago I had my number pinned to the bag. It worked well to a point, that point being that eventually the number ripped where it was pinned on, so needed some TLC to get it to the finish intact.

Downhill... uphill...flat... all practice is good and it all has an impact on how you do in the race. Glad to hear ye're practicing with the pack in race configuration (or preferably heavier

), that's incredibly benificial.

I reckon the main thing to remember when it comes to the race itself is to hold back on the first few climbs and descents (the descents being hardest to hold back on). The benifits will be huge in the second half of the race. The consquences of going out too hard are dire. Its very very hard to do, as there will be litterally hundreds of runners screaming off too fast making a major mess of their race pacing. Gotta think tactically and let them go (with a silent "see you later").

DogSlySmile · 30-07-2014 8:05pm

Enduro wrote: »

I reckon the main thing to remember when it comes to the race itself is to hold back on the first few climbs and descents (the descents being hardest to hold back on). The benifits will be huge in the second half of the race. The consquences of going out too hard are dire. Its very very hard to do, as there will be litterally hundreds of runners screaming off too fast making a major mess of their race pacing. Gotta think tactically and let them go (with a silent "see you later").

Mwuhahahaha! Love it. Great advice. Was toying with the idea of splitting the race in two. Be conservative in the first half, take on food at every aid station (we know, we know.. You're not a fan :P) and then push on in the second half, avoiding stopping at aid stations where possible, and just use the gels/food I'm carrying.

Very easy to say this now though. Putting it into practice will be another matter;)

Enduro · 31-07-2014 10:34am

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Mwuhahahaha! Love it. Great advice. Was toying with the idea of splitting the race in two. Be conservative in the first half, take on food at every aid station (we know, we know.. You're not a fan :P) and then push on in the second half, avoiding stopping at aid stations where possible, and just use the gels/food I'm carrying.

Very easy to say this now though. Putting it into practice will be another matter;)

That sounds good in principle. Just having a plan in place to keep things controlled for the first half is the main thing.

Whilst I definitely beleive in minimising the time in aid stations as being the easiest way to gain time, I do actually miss sampling some of the great selections of local cheeses and meats that they have. (And I know Barry Murray, another fat-adapted runner (and professional sports nutrionist) who could definitely run on empty, couldn't resist sampling them all!). I'd say try to plan to treat gels as emergency food only. Use them only if you really need to. More than likely you'll still need a quick stop at every aid station to rehydarate anyway.

Dunebuggy · 31-07-2014 5:58pm

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Mwuhahahaha! Love it. Great advice. Was toying with the idea of splitting the race in two. Be conservative in the first half, take on food at every aid station (we know, we know.. You're not a fan :P) and then push on in the second half, avoiding stopping at aid stations where possible, and just use the gels/food I'm carrying.

Very easy to say this now though. Putting it into practice will be another matter;)

Could I just add in a wee bit of advise on the food stops - I would have 1 or 2 bars for the first kind of stop and the second stop. There tends to be alot of people at these so it would be good to get through these while only stopping fro water .... plus the amount of choice is hilarious and takes time in itself..

I dint carry anything after that but an emergency Turkish Delight - wasn't eaten.

Your strategy after is correct, conserve at start and then you save time on the later stops naturally as u get used to what u need (Coke, Crackers n Soup for me) try and bring a variety of iso drinks also. Water gets boring :-)

And as enduro says - relax on those descents in the beginning and you will glide at the end - it ends with a very runnable 11km. I passed alot of people there :-)

DogSlySmile · 24-08-2014 8:31pm

Was planning on just bringing a carry on bag for the flight over. Didn't think about the hiking poles though, aer lingus website says they are 'not permitted / restricted'. The 'restricted' part makes it sound like they are permitted under certain conditions.

Has anyone put hiking poles in their carry on before?

Best of luck to those heading over!

Enduro · 25-08-2014 10:00am

A friend of mine just check with the DAA and they said that they are not permitted. I never made it to the UTMB without using a full 20kg of luggage!

Best of luck to everyone taking part in any of the races in the UTMB festival. Hopefully the weather will play ball and you'll all get to run the full courses.

UTMB 2014

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